Some history:1933 diplomatic cable from the american embassy in berlin to FDR

[DBoon]

this 1933 diplomatic cable from the american embassy in berlin to FDR that was sent three months after #Hitler took power goes hard

"𝘞𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘧𝘦𝘸 𝘦𝘹𝘤𝘦𝘱𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴, 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘦𝘯 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘳𝘶𝘯𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘎𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘢 𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘥. 𝘚𝘰𝘮𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘱𝘴𝘺𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘱𝘢𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘤 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘦𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘰𝘳𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘭𝘺 𝘣𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘦𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦. 𝘖𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘧𝘳𝘢𝘮𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘳e𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘫𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘺 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘦𝘧𝘶𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘪𝘨𝘯𝘰𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘶𝘯𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘥 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘵𝘢𝘴𝘬𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘤𝘢𝘳𝘳𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘥𝘢𝘺."

From Mastodon
https://universeodon.com/@cryptadamist/113468324210678503

[yardwork]

1. We should have stopped Hitler when he invaded Poland...

The same people who watch WWII shows on the History Channel are perfectly happy to let Putin take Ukraine.

[BunkieBandit]

5. We could not stop Hitler

from invading Poland. Our military was small and woefully inadequate to deal with at that time.

[Irish_Dem]

7. France had the world's most powerful military when Hitler invaded them.

Their army was huge and vastly outnumbered the Nazi Army.
But France rolled over after six weeks of fighting, surrendered and handed their country to Hitler.
The blitzkrieg overwhelmed them.

When Churchill was informed of this fact he was shocked and in disbelief so flew
directly to Paris to confirm it.

So right, why would the smaller US military at the time have more success or determination than France?

[Farmer-Rick]

11. Yeah it was an intelligence failure

The Allies thought Germany would come through on the Maginot Line, and be turned to go through Belgium. Then they barely changed their strategic defense in response to Germany invading through the Ardennes forests.

Intelligence can make or break a war. That's what Putin has been using against American democracy. Seems now he actually won the Cold war.

[Irish_Dem]

13. Yes Putin won the Cold War.

It is the crime of the century.

As a young KGB agent he was devastated when the USSR fell.
He blamed the US and vowed revenge.

He got his revenge and then some.

And along with China, Russia is well on the path to being the new global superpowers.

[Farmer-Rick]

15. With the average monthly wage of $630

I'm sure Russian citizens are feeling like a super power.

I suspect that will be our monthly wages after pedo Trump is done with us.

[Irish_Dem]

19. The new world order does not include a prosperous citizenry.

The new world order will be all power and wealth held by a privileged few.

Putin is said to be the richest man in the world. Said to be $300 Billion, but I think more.
He has sucked out all of Russia's wealth into his own pockets.
The people outside of Moscow do not even have indoor plumbing.
In rural areas, only one third of the population has access to indoor toilets.

When the Russian soldiers invaded Ukraine, many of them saw washers and dryers for the first time. They looted them to bring home, not realizing they needed indoor plumbing to hook up
the washing machines.

[NBachers]

25. I worked for several years in construction for a German man who had been a prisoner on the Russian Front.

He said a Russian officer told him to install hot and cold water faucets on the wall, or the Russian officer would shoot him. The Russian officer didn’t understand that there had to be plumbing behind the wall to bring the water to the spigot. He thought you could just bolt the faucets to the wall and make water come out.

[Irish_Dem]

26. Kind of reminds me of this story:

I was sitting in a beauty shop waiting to get my hair done and I was early for the appointment.
A little boy was seated next to he me, his mother was getting her hair cut.

He had a little cell phone and was playing Candy Crush which I like to play too, so we were chatting about it.
I pointed out that when I was his age, we didn't have cell phones or games like this to play.

He told me that one thing he could never understand was why the heck did we used to hang our phones on the wall.
He said that was so crazy and stupid.

So then I explained about telephone polls and telephone wires having to connect to the house.
Of course he didn't know what they were either, he had never seen them. And he didn't need them
for his phone, why did we need them back then.

Thank god my beautician called me back because the answers to his questions were getting above my pay grade. .

[homegirl]

17. France surrendered

to save Paris. Says a lot, the Brits never gave up-despite the BLITZ BOMBING of London!

Heard it from their own mouths!

Europeans at the time remarked, "After WW1, America went home and rolled out the Atlantic Ocean behind her!"

FDR had to create Lend Lease to bypass Congress and supply Britain with war equipment.

[Irish_Dem]

21. France surrendered to save themselves yes.

They didn't put up much of a fight.
Unlike Great Britain. Or current day Ukraine.

[yardwork]

23. I'm not arguing, just quoting the Trumpsters who loooove WWII.

They're always throwing should gave and could have around.

Now we have the opportunity to stop Putin and we won't. Just like 9/11 over again. "Nobody could have guessed.."

[Wounded Bear]

6. We should have stopped Hitler when he invaded Czechoslovakia...

or maybe

We should have stopped Hitler when he invaded Austria...

or maybe

We should have stopped Hitler when he invaded the Rhineland...

I happened in stages and warnings were pretty stark.

[WhiteTara]

27. Austria wasfilled with Nazi sympathizers and spies

for Hitler. There were many killings in the Austrian DP camps when my dad was in the Occupation Army in 1949.

[SocialDemocrat61]

29. How?

[SocialDemocrat61]

20. The Neutrality Act made that illegal

plus the United Stated didn’t have a mutual defense agreement with Poland. And exactly how would the US military get the men and equipment capable of defeating the German army in 1939 over to Europe?

[Chuuku Davis]

28. How would we (USA)

Have stopped Hitler??

[Dave Bowman]

2. Sounds familiar.

[IrishBubbaLiberal]

3. History repeats

“The only thing new in this world is the history you don’t know”

— Harry Truman

[erronis]

16. Thank you for the quote, and welcome to DU!

An interesting read on Harry S Truman's interest in history:
https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2009/spring/truman-history.html

I was fortunate to meet Pres. Truman at his home in Independence several days before he passed. He was surrounded in his library by books and several on either side of him in the wing chair to help keep himself propped up.

[IrishBubbaLiberal]

22. quote was used in book "All the Shah's Men"

All the Shah’s Men” by Stephen Kinzer

About CIA coup that installed the Shah in 1953.


My late father went a LOT of time to Iran, in 1950s, 60s, 70s

Knew the Shah’s family members, through business contracts.
Contracts to built spy bases to monitor Soviets.
Build for Iran Navy,

Project IBEX, Project Dark Gene

Tacksman I , Tacksman 2

ELINT Bases in Iran

[ananda]

4. Wow, history redux.

Just wow.

[Grins]

8. The author was stationed in Austria, not Berlin, Germany.

Close enough, I guess.

A TRULY GREAT book on Nazi Germany in between 1934 and 1938 - “In the Garden of the Beasts” by Erik Larson.

It describes “America’s first ambassador to Nazi Germany, William E. Dodd, and his daughter Martha, as they experience the rising terror of Hitler’s rule.”

The book IS WILD!! The first chapters describing what happened to ordinary citizens and visiting Americans was a shocker. Also, how the U.S. government picked its Ambassadors and funded its embassies!

[Grins]

9. And when you are done with that book..

… The Splendid and the Vile: A Saga of Churchill, Family, and Defiance During the Blitz

By the same author.

I bought the book because of the reviews, then forgot about it for maybe a year. When I finally got to it - by page 17 I was hooked!! “Don’t anyone bother me!” hooked.

It covers Churchill over 18-months, from the day he became PM until Pearl Harbor, and his negotiations with FDR struggling with the “American Firsters.”

[Blue Full Moon]

10. Great book on this

In the Garden of Beasts.

[liberalla]

12. I'll check that out. Thanks...

[moniss]

14. Good piece of relevance for our

folks today to pay attention to. I would also note that these early warnings were very much heeded and the history archives show that the US government was doing industrial inventory/planning for massive shift to war production years before WW2. We knew already who could produce what and what they would need. Most of the "Cliffs Notes" type of TV presentations of those years gives no sense of that and leaves one with the impression that we "miraculously" began producing tanks etc. like it was a spur of the moment change. FDR planned for the shift.

Sadly, we in this country did not plan ahead for what to do if we saw the re-election of such a monster as we now have. We need to face the fact that about half of the country would elect a Charles Manson type if that person had media downplaying the murdering aspects and if the Manson type was promising to soothe their hate and desire to harm others by doing exactly those things. People like this are not reachable, as Messersmith points out, by logical argument and debate. So any suggestion that we somehow can "reason" with them or "make our case" in order to "convince them" is pure nonsense and a waste of time that is only going to give them more time and get for us nothing but frustration.

If we look for a historical perspective that is somewhat similar it would be the years before the US Civil War when the seemingly intractable debate about slavery was attempted to be "cooled" somewhat by the Missouri Compromise. It was never going to work or somehow get people to "come around". Because these people were unreachable by reasoned arguments or "compromises". The people who thought it was morally OK to treat other human beings like cattle, force them into labor, abuse them and profit by doing so needed to be defeated as people rather than being "convinced". The time for that had come and gone.

[erronis]

18. The "history" we get fed is extremely limited, biased, and has little texture

Of course it is hard to write in linear prose an accurate condensation of what happened over the course of long periods of time - and also bring in all of the contextual elements about what else was going on that had some impact.

Even being a scholar of a particular time or place or event doesn't give the visceral feelings of being on the ground while things are happening.

[moniss]

24. Yes indeed and it is also

why having subsequent generations get a real sense of what their elders lived through is problematic to impossible. Perhaps a reason, among several, why some aspects of history repeat. Trying to convey the economic upheaval of 1973 on brought by the OPEC oil embargo is very hard to convey to younger people today who have not lived or experienced such a thing. I mentioned to folks I was dining with the other day that the whole "energy efficiency" in businesses and homes and "miles per gallon" in cars didn't exist prior to that. Although those are net positives for society they came at a horrendous economic and personal impact to lives and our whole world society was forever changed.

Trying to now give young people a sense of living life without even thinking about the price of gas is impossible. When I tell them that as teens we got in our cars at dusk on a Saturday night and then drove around from town to town howling at the moon all night long and doing it week after week all year long they stare at me blankly and at most ask me why.