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In It to Win It

(10,205 posts)
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 06:24 PM Jan 18

What grade would you give President Biden's term?

I was asked this question and I really had to think about it... and I honestly don't know. There were things Joe Biden knocked out of the park and things I wished he would have done a little bit better.

I heard an answer from a Republican that said he would have given the first 2 years a 'B' and the last 2 years a 'D', and I actually thought that was fair coming from a Republican. I was thinking more of grading the entire presidency as one rather than splitting it up.

HOWEVER, the reason I thought that was fair because he gave a 'B' to total Democratic governance. He gave a 'B' to the parts of the term in which Democrats had a trifecta. He gave a 'D' to the part of term when there was divided government. This response actually gave me a little hope because that signaled to me that, even as a Republican, there was something he liked about Democratic governance.

117 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What grade would you give President Biden's term? (Original Post) In It to Win It Jan 18 OP
Lost opportunities (including Garland & failure to hold Trump accountable) will hurt him but historians will hlthe2b Jan 18 #1
a poll would be good Shellback Squid Jan 18 #2
B+ OAITW r.2.0 Jan 18 #3
That's about where I am. He played the best hand he had with the cards he was dealt. In It to Win It Jan 18 #7
I said good solid ...... B .... !!!!!! Trueblue1968 Jan 19 #49
A+ live love laugh Jan 18 #4
A- The guy's not Superman, but his character is sterling, his list of accomplishments is pages long... Hekate Jan 18 #5
That's where I am newdeal2 Jan 18 #12
Normally, I don't echo posts but... hotellanai1986 Jan 19 #81
That's tough. He was an "A" president, yet he will return the WH keys to Trump on Monday, probably a low C overall. tritsofme Jan 18 #6
Given the forces arrayed against him, Joe did the best he could: I'll give his administration a solid "B." sop Jan 18 #8
Please remember, 10 years of balderdash. cachukis Jan 18 #9
B to B+ (an A for policy and a C for messaging) Bleacher Creature Jan 18 #10
A H2O Man Jan 18 #11
B due to supplying Israel with bombs. sinkingfeeling Jan 18 #13
B- multitude of goods with some unforced errors uponit7771 Jan 18 #14
A+ Quiet Em Jan 18 #15
B+ to A-... 2naSalit Jan 18 #16
A+ LoisB Jan 18 #17
Well... sagetea Jan 18 #18
Respect Biden immensely and feel good about his term. But you gotta have better approval ratings. Silent Type Jan 18 #19
That's about where I'm at. In terms of substantive policy, he was solid; in terms of political adeptness, he was poor Midwestern Democrat Jan 18 #22
Policy mr715 Jan 18 #36
Notice how the grades are inflated? mr715 Jan 18 #30
People here do love Biden, for good reason. But now we need to move on to the task at hand, making sure we Silent Type Jan 18 #32
I love him less mr715 Jan 18 #33
You need to own that too Bobstandard Jan 19 #55
This message was self-deleted by its author Wifes husband Jan 18 #20
B+ - delivered on most promises. Initech Jan 18 #21
A but a Z to media. GreenWave Jan 18 #23
Z mr715 Jan 18 #34
Sadly, it feels like Biden never showed up. Self Esteem Jan 19 #73
The debate was lethal mr715 Jan 19 #86
Which probably explains why he didn't do many interviews or press conferences. Self Esteem Jan 19 #88
Yeah, but lack of transparency is problematic mr715 Jan 19 #92
There was an expose in the NYT and some called it a hit piece. LeftInTX Jan 20 #114
Yes. I remember the broken foot. Self Esteem Jan 20 #117
A - no question. LAS14 Jan 18 #24
A+ mcar Jan 18 #25
How do you handle Florida? mr715 Jan 18 #40
Ugh is right mcar Jan 19 #54
My buddy mr715 Jan 19 #69
I think Florida is lost to us for a long time mcar Jan 19 #70
A- proud patriot Jan 18 #26
C- mr715 Jan 18 #27
That's one of the disappointments In It to Win It Jan 18 #35
Thanks mr715 Jan 18 #37
A minus RandomNumbers Jan 18 #28
I'm thinking A- Morbius Jan 18 #29
What would Obama get mr715 Jan 18 #31
A- Renew Deal Jan 18 #42
Weak agree mr715 Jan 18 #43
Did he really have any control of that? Renew Deal Jan 18 #45
Honest -- mr715 Jan 18 #46
Obama was great at image. Self Esteem Jan 19 #74
C Groundhawg Jan 18 #38
Thank you fellow honest grader mr715 Jan 18 #39
I don't blame Biden for what we all B.See Jan 18 #41
It's tough Renew Deal Jan 18 #44
First 2 years were better than the last 2 BannonsLiver Jan 19 #47
What the hell does it even matter at this point? Blue_Tires Jan 19 #48
Do you think they would have refused to support him too? Renew Deal Jan 19 #50
Agreed iemanja Jan 19 #63
Age was a completely meaningless issue Blue_Tires Jan 19 #68
Age was not meaningless. Self Esteem Jan 19 #78
Indeed Trump spewed utter nonsense but comradebillyboy Jan 19 #89
You're joking? Blue_Tires Jan 19 #96
You don't think Biden's age played a role in his perception? Self Esteem Jan 19 #99
His perception? Or the perception of him? JoseBalow Jan 19 #100
The perception voters had of him. Self Esteem Jan 19 #101
No, I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say. JoseBalow Jan 19 #103
I think certain people allowed it to play a role in their perception Blue_Tires Jan 19 #105
That was the issue... Self Esteem Jan 19 #107
Yes. Biden would have lost similarly to H.W. Bush and Carter. Self Esteem Jan 19 #76
He should have announced not running after the midterms. This is on him too you know. themaguffin Jan 19 #87
Dems bent themselves into pretzels trying to justify Blue_Tires Jan 19 #97
Giving her more than a 100 days would have helped. themaguffin Jan 19 #109
I would break it down in multiple grades JT45242 Jan 19 #51
B+ in governance; D in public relations if..fish..had..wings Jan 19 #52
First president to stand on a picket line. JohnnyRingo Jan 19 #53
B Raven123 Jan 19 #56
C+. Democratic Party D- GusBob Jan 19 #57
A- W_HAMILTON Jan 19 #58
C doc03 Jan 19 #59
I give the President BigMin28 Jan 19 #60
A - (1st 2 years) D (2nd 2 years, as after we lost the House in 2022, he should've kept his pre 2020 posturing and not Celerity Jan 19 #61
Splitting the grade like that is the best way to look comradebillyboy Jan 19 #93
B- iemanja Jan 19 #62
A- mvd Jan 19 #64
B+ Rebl2 Jan 19 #65
You never answered your own question. At least not I could tell. William769 Jan 19 #66
B- In It to Win It Jan 19 #77
Sorry President Biden is not at fault for trump not being defeated. William769 Jan 19 #80
The political winds were not in his favor. I'm convinced he would have lost so... In It to Win It Jan 19 #83
well we lost anyways & The political winds were not in her favor. William769 Jan 19 #94
That's why I said he should have never run for reelection. In It to Win It Jan 19 #95
A- Dem4life1234 Jan 19 #67
Solid B (or maybe B-, if I'm honest). alarimer Jan 19 #71
Policy? A. Image? D. Self Esteem Jan 19 #72
D, maybe a C- mike_c Jan 19 #75
But why? Elessar Zappa Jan 19 #110
A SallyHemmings Jan 19 #79
In retrospect, I don't think Obama was dreadful at all selling his accomplishments. Self Esteem Jan 19 #84
A+ of course! sanduca Jan 19 #82
He did great things, but Orange Caligula is back and wasn't prosecuted, so unfortunately, his term has themaguffin Jan 19 #85
A+ I will miss him n/t scardycat Jan 19 #90
A ismnotwasm Jan 19 #91
Policies: A, Image: F Wanderlust988 Jan 19 #98
Really....he wasnt strong his last 2 years. Melon Jan 19 #102
B. Garland cost him an A yourout Jan 19 #104
B+/A- LetMyPeopleVote Jan 19 #106
A- Xoan Jan 19 #108
B- probably tishaLA Jan 19 #111
B. MatthewStLouis Jan 20 #112
I feel like Trump never left. I feel like Biden's term was a very short dream. LeftInTX Jan 20 #113
I feel the same. Trump was still very much present the entire time. In It to Win It Jan 20 #115
B- inwiththenew Jan 20 #116

hlthe2b

(108,566 posts)
1. Lost opportunities (including Garland & failure to hold Trump accountable) will hurt him but historians will
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 06:28 PM
Jan 18

see the full breadth of his term and he will be judged positively for those accomplishments. But, in truth, if Trump is as destructive as he proposes to be--Biden will get a big piece of that blame* for his administration's failure to hold him accountable and prosecute in a timely manner. Garland will prove to be his Achilles Heel. It saddens me, but that is being realistic. A for his accomplishments; C overall (and maybe lower if Trump is truly destructive * )

Hekate

(96,745 posts)
5. A- The guy's not Superman, but his character is sterling, his list of accomplishments is pages long...
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 06:31 PM
Jan 18

…and he did his level best against great odds every single day.

newdeal2

(1,996 posts)
12. That's where I am
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 06:54 PM
Jan 18

His character alone earns my admiration. He takes so much shit from every side, he never got credit for his pandemic response and cleanup, and he did so much with very little help from the media.

My one critique of him and others is underestimating how depraved the Republican Party has become.

hotellanai1986

(159 posts)
81. Normally, I don't echo posts but...
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:18 PM
Jan 19

This post stated exactly what I thought when I viewed this discussion. I am just so appalled at this manchild president to be that I can't stomach seeing his image on television! And now, with the laying of the wreath - for optics yet again... Is nothing sacred with him?

So, yes, A even A with honors. Biden's character is exemplary. Yes, he "Palled around with" (thank you Palin) segregationists but so did President Carter. Yes, Biden has faults but he is human. The overarching point is he strives for the good of all. I would rate Obama the same and for the same reasons and he is my favorite with Carter. TSF, 5 hair Donny, has no moral compass at all. Just a malevolent spirit.

tritsofme

(19,009 posts)
6. That's tough. He was an "A" president, yet he will return the WH keys to Trump on Monday, probably a low C overall.
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 06:34 PM
Jan 18

sop

(13,168 posts)
8. Given the forces arrayed against him, Joe did the best he could: I'll give his administration a solid "B."
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 06:40 PM
Jan 18

And an "A" for personal character.

cachukis

(2,960 posts)
9. Please remember, 10 years of balderdash.
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 06:41 PM
Jan 18

The republicans could have stopped him, but chose not.
Joe inherited a changing electorate fed like sucklings a constant stream of propaganda never experienced.
He presented normalcy in a time of flux. His and our times have passed. We overlooked the lack of commonality in lieu of individual wants.
We will all look back at how well he played his hand.
He was not the politician we needed to follow that other guy. But he was the rock that stood above the waves.
Torn between B+ or A-.
Humans can never be 100% because that would be no room for improvement.

Quiet Em

(1,699 posts)
15. A+
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 07:01 PM
Jan 18

He started under such intense conditions. Violence and threats from the MAGA right, and economy crushed by the pandemic, so many people hurting in so many different ways and he got us through all of it and accomplished so very much for the working class. History is going to rate his Presidency quite high.

sagetea

(1,491 posts)
18. Well...
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 07:31 PM
Jan 18

1. Economics: A
2. Education: A
3. Climate: B-
4. Infrastructure: A+
5. Messaging: B (through no fault of his)
6. Foreign Affairs: A+ (with the exception of Israel/Palestine) That's all I will say about that.
7. Health Care: A
8. Law and Order: B (Ahem...Garland) That's all I'll say about that.
9. Defense: A- (I remember telling my family that when he pulled out of Syria, was because a war was coming.

I know I am missing something...

sage

Silent Type

(8,698 posts)
19. Respect Biden immensely and feel good about his term. But you gotta have better approval ratings.
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 07:45 PM
Jan 18

Despise trump and his supporters, but we needed to win.

22. That's about where I'm at. In terms of substantive policy, he was solid; in terms of political adeptness, he was poor
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 08:08 PM
Jan 18

Have to give him a low C - he was a one-term president and honestly the other two recent one-term presidents were given more difficult hands to play - Carter (high inflation, recession, oil embargo, Iran Hostage crisis) and Bush I (a sharp recession hitting right when he ran for re-election).

mr715

(1,586 posts)
36. Policy
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 10:57 PM
Jan 18

without ownership is meaningless.

He will be remembered as the fluke between Trump 1 and Trump 2. His loss will erase the treason in between.

Silent Type

(8,698 posts)
32. People here do love Biden, for good reason. But now we need to move on to the task at hand, making sure we
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 10:47 PM
Jan 18

are prepared for the mid-terms. Unfortunately, people just didn't buy Biden -- hence Democrats -- made their lives better. Though, one can't deny the racism/bigotry in the election against VP Harris. Don't see that changing.

mr715

(1,586 posts)
33. I love him less
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 10:51 PM
Jan 18

But I always loved him. He is lovable.

I think that his judgement has been questionable. I think that his messaging has been bad. I think that he demonstrated a typical arrogance of the position he was in. I don't necessarily blame him, but part of the lovable stuff was that he didn't present as self-centered.

Then we lost.

He needs to own that.

Response to In It to Win It (Original post)

Initech

(104,227 posts)
21. B+ - delivered on most promises.
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 07:46 PM
Jan 18

I'm still pissed they didn't throw the book at Trump, Fox and their enablers and I will never get over that.

mr715

(1,586 posts)
34. Z
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 10:52 PM
Jan 18

Is never showing up, at least in the NYC Dept of Education report card system.

I remember it from Peanuts when one of the characters said "Z isn't a grade, it's sarcasm"

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
73. Sadly, it feels like Biden never showed up.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:02 PM
Jan 19

At least where it counted.

I became extremely uneasy about his reelection campaign when he kinda went radio silence after the State of the Union back in March. I expected that they'd use that as a launch pad to get him in front of the cameras with a media blitz and it never happened.

The media was ruthless but Biden didn't help himself with his limited availability. That only played into the narrative that he was not up for the job, regardless if it was fair.

Had he done a month long campaign blitz in March, with multiple rallies and news interviews, he would have been better positioned but he didn't do it. The WH went dark outside typical planned events where he gave a 15 minute speech and that was it.

It sucks because I had so much confidence in him in 2023 to turn it around. I remember his time in Ireland, where he came out to the Dropkick Murphys thinking "hell yeah!" and that this was going to be a preview of his reelection campaign and... it never got off the ground.

The only time I felt the Biden team saw any level of urgency was right after that horrific debate and by that point, it was too late.

mr715

(1,586 posts)
86. The debate was lethal
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:38 PM
Jan 19

As it should've been. I was mortified.

Also, after the Hur report he gave a press conference ostensibly to show he was not too old for the job, and came out looking haggard, whisper-quiet, and unaware of the gravity of the messaging problem.

It was baked in.

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
88. Which probably explains why he didn't do many interviews or press conferences.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:47 PM
Jan 19

The team thought they could run a 2020-like campaign and get away with it but that clearly wasn't the case.

mr715

(1,586 posts)
92. Yeah, but lack of transparency is problematic
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:55 PM
Jan 19

especially for Democrats on the moral high ground.

Every move he made played into the narrative that he was being handled, and that he was diminished. He was not up to the job.

I think it is fairly self-evident, and I am more inclined to see his own personal arrogance. He didn't need to run. No one is owed the Presidency. I've said it before - had he decided not to run, he'd have cemented his legacy as a defender of democracy. He'd still be invited to all the fancy dinners and go to all the big events... But now that is likely not how history will remember him. President Inter-Trump. A hiccup on the march towards dictatorship.

LeftInTX

(32,761 posts)
114. There was an expose in the NYT and some called it a hit piece.
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:41 AM
Jan 20

Biden's troubles began when he broke his ankle. He refused to wear his boot because it looked..yeah...
The ankle became unstable because it didn't heal properly. Biden then developed gait issues, then he fell off his bike, then he fell at an important event. But the tendency to fall had begun. Hence he wasn't as vigorous as he was in 2020. When that happens, you can develop what appear to be mild cognitive issues. (Body and brain go hand in hand) Apparently, his staff "shielded him". After all he is 82 and this also part of normal aging.

Then of course he has those speech issues, which became more apparent in the past year.

Of course Trump isn't a spring chicken, but he's the same age Biden was in 2020.

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
117. Yes. I remember the broken foot.
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:04 PM
Jan 20

It was right after he was elected. I figured that played a role in his gait.

One area where I think Biden saw maybe the biggest regression was his voice. It became a lot softer over the last four years and he always seemed to have to clear his throat. But the soft voice sounded weak and made him appear more sickly, especially with the cough.

I actually think that's why Trump doesn't get as dinged as Biden over age - Trump word vomits but his voice is still very booming. He sounds confident in his bullshit and that projects strength, while the whispers and quiet voice from Biden a lot of the time didn't.

In retrospect, Biden's family and team should have realized the optics were not in his favor. The perception about his age was the dominant issue and it likely would have been very challenging to change.

And it's not just the number. Bernie is older than Biden but I don't think his age is nearly as much of a problem for him as it's become for Joe.

mr715

(1,586 posts)
40. How do you handle Florida?
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 11:15 PM
Jan 18

I know my vote means more here, but in NY at least I could be in a royal blue district.

I remember the neighborhood erupting in cheers when he lost. Here... Ugh.

mcar

(44,217 posts)
54. Ugh is right
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 10:25 AM
Jan 19

Only 28% of voters in my county voted for Harris. I see all these people around me, neighbors, some friends - and I know they voted for the rapist. And yet, contrary to what some here attest, they are good and decent people. I will never understand it.

We have a very active Democratic Women's Club here. They are my link to sanity.

mr715

(1,586 posts)
69. My buddy
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 01:37 PM
Jan 19

is elected the Miami Dade DNC. I listen to the meetings. They are not reassuring.

mcar

(44,217 posts)
70. I think Florida is lost to us for a long time
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 02:43 PM
Jan 19

Here, we focus our energies on the non-partisan races.

In It to Win It

(10,205 posts)
35. That's one of the disappointments
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 10:55 PM
Jan 18

At the end of it all, we lost and I think that was preventable. Joe Biden did amazing things but winning and keeping power is everything because a lot of those amazing things can now be undone.

RandomNumbers

(18,456 posts)
28. A minus
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 09:10 PM
Jan 18

The minus is for not taking care of the business of getting rid of Trump, and continuing to have a Dem in the WH.

On policy and running the country well for everyone, I think he has done exceptionally well with the hand he was dealt.

Morbius

(360 posts)
29. I'm thinking A-
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 09:28 PM
Jan 18

And that's only because he largely lost the battle of messaging. He accomplished more in two years than the last four Republican Presidents combined, in 24 years. Think about that.

mr715

(1,586 posts)
31. What would Obama get
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 10:36 PM
Jan 18

When he had 59/60 votes in the Senate and Nancy Pelosi had the Speaker's gavel?

Renew Deal

(83,654 posts)
42. A-
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 11:48 PM
Jan 18

The red line thing in Syria has had a lasting effect. Other than that, pretty good. Very limited scandals, good governance, and he was relatively honest for a politician.

mr715

(1,586 posts)
43. Weak agree
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 11:52 PM
Jan 18

He was scandal free, but he did take a very aggressive posture internationally. For better or worse. I think I tend to be a little more forgiving of that...

I'd give him a solid B. He lost a full letter grade for losing the Supreme Court seat.

mr715

(1,586 posts)
46. Honest --
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 11:58 PM
Jan 18

I think had Sec. Clinton been President, she would've nominated a new Justice each day of the week.

Knowing what we know now, yes, it was on him. We have a unitary executive.

It should've dominated the news every day for the full year it took to get Gorsuch.

Obama was President, so I think he is responsible.

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
74. Obama was great at image.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:06 PM
Jan 19

Not so great on policy outside the ACA but image got him reelected and he'll go down in history as one of our better presidents.

Biden did well on policy but his image was bad and it'll likely result in him going down as a mediocre president...fair or not.

B.See

(4,912 posts)
41. I don't blame Biden for what we all
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 11:40 PM
Jan 18

eventually face (those who are lucky to live long enough): age and the (sometimes debilitating) effects.

A...

For his heart, ideals, patriotism, kindness, empathy, and ACCOMPLISHMENTS in spite of mean spirited, hate inspired, sore LOSER opposition from the fanatical reich and their foreign adversary COLLABORATORS.

NO A+ because, Garland... by his own admission.

Renew Deal

(83,654 posts)
44. It's tough
Sat Jan 18, 2025, 11:53 PM
Jan 18

The last couple months will drag down his score.

I don't blame him at all for the Afghanistan withdrawal. It's the deal Trump made, and he kept the US's word. If you include the decision to run for reelection until July, B-. Take that out and B+. He deserves credit for handling covid, the economy, keeping the US out of wars, and supporting Ukraine. He loses points for the drone situation, choosing to run for reelection, some of the commutations, and pardoning Hunter (because he said he wouldn't).

BannonsLiver

(19,000 posts)
47. First 2 years were better than the last 2
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:59 AM
Jan 19

I’d say on the whole a C+

Also possible his term looks better down the road than it did playing in real time. Sort of like with Carter.

 

Blue_Tires

(57,596 posts)
48. What the hell does it even matter at this point?
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 04:03 AM
Jan 19

Biden got forced out by his own party after a mass panic and then our voters refused to support Harris knowing full well what was at stake...

Renew Deal

(83,654 posts)
50. Do you think they would have refused to support him too?
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 10:15 AM
Jan 19

Would he have lost, but differently?

Knowing what we know now, I think it would have been almost impossible for him to win. The discontent numbers were too high and the perception of his age would have been tough to overcome.

 

Blue_Tires

(57,596 posts)
68. Age was a completely meaningless issue
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 01:16 PM
Jan 19

Donnie is old, Donnie is in dubious health, Donnie slurs his speech, drops multiple malaprops daily and has no ability whatsoever to stay on topic more than 30 seconds...

And nevermind the fact that he looked ten times worse in his second debate than Biden did in the first debate and yet only one candidate got forced out of the race 👎

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
78. Age was not meaningless.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:15 PM
Jan 19

It's clear Biden had the perception about his age that didn't exist with Trump. And the debate didn't help that perception at all. It only solidified it. Plus, the refusal from the WH to hold consistent press conferences and do major interviews didn't help, either.

As for Trump's debate, it was awful too but not awful the same way. Trump didn't look confused or lost or too old. He just looked unhinged and unfortunately, that was less of an issue for him than Biden looking too old.

Biden's debate was maybe the worst debate in presidential history because it reinforced the concerns so many voters had about him.

comradebillyboy

(10,630 posts)
89. Indeed Trump spewed utter nonsense but
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:51 PM
Jan 19

he did so with great energy and vigor while Joe looked like death warmed over. It's pretty clear who looked worse in that debate. Joe would never recover and Harris didn't have time to put together a proper campaign.

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
99. You don't think Biden's age played a role in his perception?
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 05:41 PM
Jan 19

I wish I could be that disengaged lmao

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
101. The perception voters had of him.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 06:16 PM
Jan 19

You're telling me the perception of Biden's age wasn't an issue for him?

JoseBalow

(7,021 posts)
103. No, I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 06:28 PM
Jan 19

There's a difference between "his perception," how he sees things, and "the perception of him," how others see him. It seems you are trying to convey the latter, so the way you have been phrasing it above has been incorrect, and confusing. That's why I asked.

Thanks for the clarification.

And for the record, I agree that the perception that some people had of Biden's age (and mental acuity) was indeed an issue for them.

 

Blue_Tires

(57,596 posts)
105. I think certain people allowed it to play a role in their perception
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 07:44 PM
Jan 19

Either BOTH candidates are "too old" to serve, or they're both fine... It can't be one and not the other...

And I've been called many things in my time on DU, but "disengaged" was not one of them 🧐

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
107. That was the issue...
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 08:41 PM
Jan 19

I think a huge number of people thought Biden did not have the mental acuity to handle the job for four more years. That was a massive vulnerability for him and one no one wanted to take seriously because, gosh, Trump is old too!

But that argument never made sense. Fair or not, the perception regarding Trump's age was not the same. It wasn't that Biden was 81 years old. It was the perception that he wasn't capable of doing the work anymore.

Moreover, a large amount of 2020 Biden voters bought into that narrative too.

So, yes, it was an issue and if you didn't think it was an issue, then I question whether you were engaged and paying attention because it was a big reason the party finally nudged him out of the race.

The problem is that Biden did himself no favors. He held fewer press conferences and interviews than any of the last six presidents during their first four years - in fact, the closest to him was Bush and even Bush held nearly 100 more press conferences/interviews during his first four years than Biden.

It created a narrative that he was avoiding the media - that his team did not trust him. And they refused to counter it. Even during an election season, at the height of the summer campaign, Biden rarely held campaign rallies.

It wasn't until there was legitimate pushback after the shockingly bad debate that Biden started doing rallies, interviews and held a press conference.

But by that point, it was too late - and certainly the effort he put out there didn't change the narrative. If anything, it only reinforced the concerns.

I love Joe. I think he's been an effective president and I had no concerns about his ability to lead another four years.

But I also know that to have the opportunity to lead for four years, you've got to actually win and he was not going to win because Americans had decidedly bought into the idea (or perception) that his age was an issue.

So, yes, going back to the whole main point of this exchange: age absolutely was not a meaningless issue.

Age is more than just a number. As I said, Biden's problem with voters wasn't that he was 81. It was that they felt he didn't have the mental acuity to do the job. For whatever reason, that never stuck with Trump. The poll I linked to shows that. 55% of Americans disagreed with the comment that Trump was too old to be an effective president. For Biden? Just 25%.

Those were devastating numbers and shows just how meaningful the issue was.

Perception is reality in politics and the perception of Biden is not good. Maybe history will change that but he's leaving office with the lowest approval rating of any out-going president since Truman (outside Nixon, who resigned). Some of that absolutely is due to his age the belief he's too old.

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
76. Yes. Biden would have lost similarly to H.W. Bush and Carter.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:10 PM
Jan 19

He was on course for a major, and devastating electoral rebuke.

I think Democrats were screwed regardless but at least Harris kept it close and gave them a chance. Biden stood very little chance of winning.

 

Blue_Tires

(57,596 posts)
97. Dems bent themselves into pretzels trying to justify
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 04:28 PM
Jan 19

Not supporting the black woman...

Well, Donnie is about to make them wish they had, but by then it will be too late.

JT45242

(3,195 posts)
51. I would break it down in multiple grades
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 10:20 AM
Jan 19

Overcoming the pandemic A
Recovering the economy A
Protecting the rule of law and consequences for insurrection F
Passing legislation that was needed in spite of rethugs, manchin, etc A

But the failure on the rule of law weighs me down so much. As fascists take over our country, his failure in appointing Garland and not replacing him may mean that everything except overcoming the pandemic was for nothing.

52. B+ in governance; D in public relations
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 10:21 AM
Jan 19

Biden's administration will go into history as one of the better, if not one of the best.
However, its relationship to the governed was poor, very poor.

Raven123

(6,488 posts)
56. B
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 10:31 AM
Jan 19

Handled covid perfectly. Restored integrity to the office. Somewhere lost the narrative and worse, didn’t t fact so he couldn’t adjust.

BigMin28

(1,623 posts)
60. I give the President
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 11:36 AM
Jan 19

a C. He was an A+ President, unfortunately his choice of Garland, and his choice to stick with Garland brings his average way down. I love Joe, but those two decisions have imperiled our country and our futures.

Celerity

(48,678 posts)
61. A - (1st 2 years) D (2nd 2 years, as after we lost the House in 2022, he should've kept his pre 2020 posturing and not
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 11:39 AM
Jan 19

run for a 2nd term, thus giving us a normal 2 year primary to pick the best candiate and give that person enough time to have their own identity)

C + overall

comradebillyboy

(10,630 posts)
93. Splitting the grade like that is the best way to look
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:58 PM
Jan 19

at his term. The first two years were very good, the third wasn't bad but the fourth was very bad, mostly because he decided to seek reelection.

iemanja

(55,715 posts)
62. B-
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 11:41 AM
Jan 19

He sullied his legacy by running for reelection, despite later admitting he didn't know if he could make it through a second term.
That decision may have cost Democrats the election.

mvd

(65,597 posts)
64. A-
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 12:16 PM
Jan 19

I still think he was the best President of my lifetime. Obama and Clinton get Bs, all Republicans F and too young to remember Carter.

He was brought down slightly by Garland, Israel and messaging to a degree. We know the MSM did not help him with the messaging. Also could have sought just one term.

William769

(57,769 posts)
66. You never answered your own question. At least not I could tell.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 12:19 PM
Jan 19

My score for President Biden is a A+.

Reason: look at the mess he had to clean up when he took the Presidency and what he has been able to accomplish these past four years.

Wait, I'll let him speak for himself. https://www.whitehouse.gov/therecord/

In It to Win It

(10,205 posts)
77. B-
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:11 PM
Jan 19

The only thing preventing me from giving him an ‘A’ is that we lost. The ultimate goal we set out to do failed. We didn’t defeat Trump and “Trumpism.” We lost the battle for the “soul” of the nation.

Loved the legislative achievements. He knocked it out of the park.

He showed great leadership on Ukraine. He kept our allies united.

He was the most pro-labor president we’ve had in a long time.

A misstep was immigration. Democrats seem divided on what exactly they want to do about immigration. Other than giving the dreamers a path to citizenship, I have no idea what the party’s stance on immigration is. It didn’t look like Biden was doing enough. Politically, the appearance of not doing enough didn’t look good. He waited too late to change that appearance.

Lastly, I didn’t think he was going to run for reelection and he did. I gotta take some points off for that.

William769

(57,769 posts)
80. Sorry President Biden is not at fault for trump not being defeated.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:16 PM
Jan 19

Last edited Sun Jan 19, 2025, 04:20 PM - Edit history (1)

It's the idiots in the Democratic party that pushed him out of the race.

In It to Win It

(10,205 posts)
95. That's why I said he should have never run for reelection.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 04:23 PM
Jan 19

We would have had an actual primary.

Dem4life1234

(2,526 posts)
67. A-
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 12:20 PM
Jan 19

He was one of the greatest get it done presidents I have ever seen cleaning after that idiot's mess. A compassionate and intelligent man who looked out for people.

The minus part is that him and many Dems didn't tout their horns and accomplishments so that Jim Bob living over the boondocks could see that.

It's ok to tout your accomplishments, many people in this countrty are dumb as shit and need to know what you have done for them.

alarimer

(16,999 posts)
71. Solid B (or maybe B-, if I'm honest).
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 02:47 PM
Jan 19

I'd grade Clinton a C- (welfare "reform" being the biggest loser, plus media consolidation that began). I hate him, honestly for all the triangulation bullshit. Obama is a solid B, though, mostly for the fact he was remarkably scandal-free and for the ACA, which is good but doesn't go far enough. And he employed Rahm Emmanuel, who needs to disappear.

Biden was very good, but still failed to go after Trump for the Jan 6 stuff.

Trump gets an F, obviously. GW Bush, a D for being better than Trump.

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
72. Policy? A. Image? D.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 02:51 PM
Jan 19

I've not seen a presidency fail to get in front of anything media related since Bush's last term in office.

It just felt like Biden's entire presidency was spent on the defensive. Yes, the media was unfair to him - but Biden and the Democrats didn't help themselves unfortunately.

mike_c

(36,499 posts)
75. D, maybe a C-
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:08 PM
Jan 19

I'm more inclined to give him a B- or a C, but I lowered it based on some conversations among young men I overheard in spring 2024. There's no point in rehashing the conversations now, but I'll just say they were surprisingly (to me) bitter about their lives during Biden's term. They didn't have anything much to say about Trump. It was just how disappointed they were with Biden. That shook me. Afterward, I felt he could not win, not if such bitterness was widespread. Turns out it was, I think.

Elessar Zappa

(16,309 posts)
110. But why?
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 11:30 PM
Jan 19

I don’t doubt that young men feel left behind but what could Biden have done specifically to address that? He’s not a dictator and had to work with a congress that was often at odds with his agenda (including Sinema and Manchin, making our majority somewhat useless).

SallyHemmings

(1,926 posts)
79. A
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:15 PM
Jan 19

Like Obama he was dreadful selling his accomplishments. Sadly, the criminal will take credit for the blooming projects.

And he let Garland be Garland.

I’m very cool with the Hunter pardon.

Self Esteem

(1,999 posts)
84. In retrospect, I don't think Obama was dreadful at all selling his accomplishments.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:31 PM
Jan 19

He still remains the only president since Kennedy to not have a period of his presidency dominated by extremely low approval. He was very good at selling his brand and accomplishments. It's a big reason he won reelection and left office with 60% approval.

It's just that he could never save the Democratic brands. Obama was cool. Democrats? They weren't and it's why they got rocked in 2010, 2014 and lost the presidency in 2016.

In fact, just being Obama's VP likely won Biden the presidency in 2020.

sanduca

(94 posts)
82. A+ of course!
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:24 PM
Jan 19

I give President Biden an A+
Why?
He has been the hardest working president in America's history. The man never quit. He will be appreciated eventually, I'm sure of that.
Did he make mistakes? Sure! Merrick fucking Garland for one. If it wasn't for him, the felon would be in prison where he belongs.
His second mistake? Siding with Israel's trump...netanyahu. He should have never helped him, he has no love for President Biden. President Biden should have stayed neutral because Israel went beyond defending itself. They committed genocide against innocent Palestinians.
My most favorite thing President Biden did was pardoning his son Hunter. He gets a triple A+++ from me.

themaguffin

(4,425 posts)
85. He did great things, but Orange Caligula is back and wasn't prosecuted, so unfortunately, his term has
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:37 PM
Jan 19

failed its biggest task, stopping trump. It's devastating. Biden did great things, but it's hard to overcome this.

It's tragic.

ismnotwasm

(42,613 posts)
91. A
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 03:52 PM
Jan 19

That man is amazing at governance. I think as time goes on we will see more and more credit given where it is due

Wanderlust988

(619 posts)
98. Policies: A, Image: F
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 04:38 PM
Jan 19

Policies were great, image was terrible. Bad PR dept at the WH. Biden couldn't talk himself out of anything. Hardly any press conferences. Not engaging with non-traditional media such as podcasts and internet. Biden was a creature of 20th century politics.

But to me, it's impossible to give him a good grade overall because he shouldn't have run for re-election, which ultimately led to Trump. Also he needs to be accounted for appointing Garland as AG.

Melon

(257 posts)
102. Really....he wasnt strong his last 2 years.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 06:22 PM
Jan 19

I don’t think history is not going to be kind here. Amongst the members of DU, he is going to get high marks, but out in the world no. Internationally people were asking about his mental acuity for years to me. It was very apparent years ago. Not all the time and not shown on our media. He wouldn’t or couldn’t speak unprepared to the media. His staff treated him like a child and shutoff questions because now looking back he was struggling. He was a great man but past his time to govern.

LetMyPeopleVote

(160,091 posts)
106. B+/A-
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 08:36 PM
Jan 19

President Biden was faced with some major issues and did a great job in handling these issues

tishaLA

(14,569 posts)
111. B- probably
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 11:55 PM
Jan 19

And largely not because of its many accomplishments, but because it didn't have effective people out there (with the exception of Pete Buttigieg) to promote stuff. One thing whatshisname does really well is talk about how great things are going no matter whether they actually are or not; I don't want that, but I do want people out there controlling the narrative and being combative about the importance of what bills are or will bring - in regular, normal people speak instead of Washingtonese.

I also deduct points for his handling of Israel-Gaza. What we've been a party to is scandalous.

MatthewStLouis

(916 posts)
112. B.
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:19 AM
Jan 20

His presidency is oddly under-rated now. He's done some good work. Yet, like many others, it's hard to forgive him for running again. It should have neve happened.

LeftInTX

(32,761 posts)
113. I feel like Trump never left. I feel like Biden's term was a very short dream.
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:32 AM
Jan 20

It was: Jan 6, Trump's going away parties on Jan 20th stealing attention from the inauguration, impeachment, J6 committee, Trump rallies, MAL raided, Trump indicted, Midterms, Aileen Cannon, More Trump rallies, Hunter Biden, Gaza and Genocide Joe, more Trump, more Trump, more Genocide Joe, more Trump, Biden forced out, more Trump.........

I feel like Biden was just a blip on the radar....

In It to Win It

(10,205 posts)
115. I feel the same. Trump was still very much present the entire time.
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 01:52 AM
Jan 20

I couldn't help but think about that second impeachment and how Republicans were such cowards then to not convict. They tried to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted the benefit of Trump being gone while keeping the support of the Trump-loving base. They thought since he lost the election that Trump was gone and his political career was over so there was no reason to actually vote to convict. They miscalculated in an effort to save their own asses. Fucking cowards.

inwiththenew

(997 posts)
116. B-
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 02:44 AM
Jan 20

I think policy and achievement wise he was very good. But I don't think he did enough to get his message out.

He acted like he was a President from 40-50 years ago where you could rely on your achievements to speak for you. It doesn't work like that anymore and hasn't for quite awhile. You need to be out there regularly giving press conferences and interviews. Pushing your message and pushing back against the media. He didn't do that. He did the fewest in 40 years. That hurt him immensely because it allowed the media to define him. No one cares what your surrogates have to say. They want to hear straight from the horse's mouth.

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