On moderation and the middle(wo)man

[kjones]

I'm the first to admit that, given only the description "liberal," most of my positions and beliefs aren't
too hard to figure out even if you don't know me. Still, there are always some things I feel pretty moderate
and "in the middle" on. All this gender business is one of them.

I feel quite a way away from either those throwing things from either side of a fence or those who
simply choose to tune the whole thing out. (Everywhere, I mean, beyond DU and by which I mean,
real life). I find myself very extremely...in the middle. I absolutely want what is best for both sides.
Things which, by the way, I do not think are mutually exclusive. I get about equally confused and
annoyed by the to the bone, to hell with women misogynist as I do with the condescension of the
phrase "not a zero sum game" followed by reasons why complaints are invalid. But lets be serious,
neither of these two people are really that common. Most people are somewhere in the middle, and
most people can see that both sides of the fence could be a lot greener if we'd get to tearing down
fences instead of tearing down each other.

In a world that tends a lot more towards towering bell curves, we seem all too eager to divide into camp,
invert everything, and lob shit at each other over a canyon.
I guess my point is that, in this case, the middle isn't a very pleasant place to be and it really
doesn't matter where you stand, because it's raining shit and you're going to get hit.

In the context of the "two camp" gender manure, and as a man, I'm faced with being identified
(falsely, and the same with many others) as some sort of misogynist pro-rapist, or being faced with
conceding that, while I can be a useful ally, I don't actually have any serious cultural problems facing
me because of my identity (or worse, being labeled some kind of "white knight&quot . Well, let me tell you,
I'm a white, male, and I'm still seeing a few problems, and all the other facets of my identity have some
problems as well. Nonetheless, I can see a lot of other peoples' problems too (even people quite
unlike myself), and yes, I do care.

Because, to pull out and put to good use that old phrase, this isn't some zero sum game.
So why don't we pull ourselves out of our various shit pits, get to work, and start putting
some points on the board.

[lumberjack_jeff]

1. The equality position is definitely "in the middle". n/t

[Paul Edward Snyder]

2. The Male Conservative Democrat and the Liberal Female

I was born Conservative in a Liberal family. There was no animosity, and though we disagreed on just about everything, we respected one another, listened, responded with carefully thought out facts and interpretation of those facts. My interpretation was accepted and modified to fit their perspective and I also modified mine. They did not become Conservative, nor did I become Liberal, but they did become more reasonable as did I.

I should mention at this point that at the time, though the Roosevelt Administration had toned down the rhetoric of the most fanatical Liberals, many were still obsessed with immediate change

My family, of course, were Democrats, having a basically Liberal (Moral) perspective . I became a Republican, which at that time was a bastion of Conservative (Ethical) behavior. However, when Richard Nixon (who I still consider one of our best presidents) displayed some serious character defects (definitely not ethical), it became evident that Republicans, strongly influenced by the John Birch Society, were straying from the Conservative path.

Democrats, I noticed, had, over the years, moved towards a more ordered and well thought out (Conservative [more correctly perhaps Progressive]) attitude.

I therefore joined the Democratic Party since it appeared more Conservative than the Republican Party, though not nearly as Conservative as I. Over the ensuing years my evaluation of the two parties appears to have been proven correct as Democrats have become, for the most part, more reasonable (Ethical) and the Republican Party has become more fanatical (adopting some really strange moral [evangelical] standards).

For the most part, I have found the Democratic Party remarkably accepting, though argumentative even when I agree with them when I identify myself as a conservative.

Not a problem, but amusing.

I think there may be pretty much the same problem between genders. It seems to me that there is a much more serious communication problem between men and women than we are comfortable with recognizing.

[The Magistrate]

3. Have You Thought Of Taking Up Fishing, Sir?

[kjones]

4. Not sure I get it

[Bonobo]

5. Sometimes he swings for the fences

and whiffs rather embarrassingly.

[Paul Edward Snyder]

8. Age Related

The title of your response to my reply to kjones’ post “On moderation and the middle (wo)man” seems to suggest that because of my advanced age I should not interfere in the activities of those less advanced inasmuch as the world has left me behind.

I have read your most recent post and found it well thought out and convincing. It verifies, I would argue, that Democrats (I assume you are a Democrat) are today what Conservatives were in the distant past (the time of my prime). I find that I agree wholeheartedly with your reasoning.

I, therefore, find it difficult to believe that you are biased against age. Just because I find it difficult to believe, of course, does not mean you aren’t, Very intelligent people in the past have proven to be racist, so age-bias is still a possibility.

Could you, perhaps, explain the title a little more clearly?

[Eleanors38]

7. That "serious communication problem" may be more a

function of age and generational miss-match. I get along adequately with much younger folks, but how I approached women years ago would be foreign to women, now, so I just listen a lot. Older women, and those contemporary with my b.g., are more difficult to get to know simply because fewer of them make the single, retired, bompin' around circuit I do. In a sense, I'm still in school.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. I think there's much truth here.

People place more weight on a label than actual views.

Welcome to DU.

[Eleanors38]

6. I consider myself fairly leftist, not that it matters to

some extreme feminists. Fortunately, most women aren't very extreme, though they have pretty solid views on reproductive rights, access to more occupations, and running their own lives, as well they should. Fewer & fewer retire to the corner and smile deferentially, and that is good. It doesn't threaten me; in fact, I would be uneasy if women were like so many I saw 40+ years ago, not prone to throw open the hood, get dirty, fire off a box at the range, or speak out in argument & discussion. Women, IMO, will be running things a generation after I'm gone, and they better be ready for it.

[CTyankee]

10. Oh, I don't think they'll have a problem being ready for it...it's something some men have to figure

out, if they haven't already. Many have. My family is full of such men. They have great relationships with their partners...shh...don't tell anyone but pro-feminist men have better sex lives...

hope you are doing well, my friend...happy 4th!

[Eleanors38]

11. Thank you! And have a great Fourth yourself!

[CTyankee]

12. sounds to me like you are one of those lucky guys...