Okay, here's a question about this nonsense going on with birth control

[justiceischeap]

I know nonsense seems too "silly" a word for what's going on but when you boil it down to its core, it is nonsense.

What I wonder is, what's the end game here? At times I think the church and repubs are serious about denying birth control but then, being the cynic I am, wonder what they're really trying to cover up. What's going on in the background that they don't want us to pay attention to?

I know some are serious about this, one just has to listen to Santorum spout off but I don't think they are all sincere and this issue is not polling well for them, they're getting about 21% support so they are being supported solely by their base. This is what's making me wonder what's really going on here.

Thoughts? Opinions? Shoes to the head?

[valerief]

1. You mean this crap is a diversion so the media can ignore whatever the clown car Congress and

their billionaire masters are plotting and plundering now?

[TheWraith]

2. You're assuming there IS an endgame.

Look at Republican positions over the last ~3 years.

Now look at the underlying logical strategy.

If you can find one, you'll be the first.

[justiceischeap]

4. Ha! So true

I just can't help but think they are using this as some kind of diversion. But you're correct, the Right is rudderless.

[redqueen]

3. I think they're just playing to the evangelicals.

It's still early days and therefore the time to pander to the hard core supporters. Once they choose their nominee some other 'issue' will take over as a priority and this one will 'coincidentally' fade into the background.

That's what I expect, anyway.

[justiceischeap]

5. From the polling data, that appears to be the people they are playing to

It's hard to believe though that 21% of this nation is made up of evangelicals. Kind of scary to think about.

[redqueen]

6. Yes it is.

Terrifying, actually.

These people are dangerous.... it is evangelical women who side with misogynists in thinking that women shouldn't vote, shouldn't work, shouldn't have the right to control their reproductive systems, etc. They have internalized the patriarchy completely, and live in complete denial.

[tammywammy]

7. +1 Good post

[la la]

11. there was an author on Martin Bashir today,

who wrote a book ( can't remember the name, but i'm looking it up later for myself and daughters) about the evangelical, etc.- women who got all riled up in the 70s about birth control/feminism/etc.---and as i think back--she was correct--i've never really thought about it--but it's true- from my own experience....

[ZombieHorde]

29. That does seem to be the case. nt

[prairierose]

10. OTOH, 79% are not...

the type of evangelical or christian who would support these policies..I like that number.

[justiceischeap]

12. I agree the "bad" numbers seem to be decreasing

but we all know part of that 21% is made up of women. I just don't understand people who vote against their own self-interests. Just seems illogical.

[CrispyQ]

32. I don't get them either.

I wonder, if I had been raised in a very religious environment with a mother who was submissive to the men in her life, & men who expected submissiveness, how could I possibly be the person I am today? It could happen, but on it's own without some other experience or comparison? I don't know.

It makes me so grateful to have had the upbringing I had & the exposure to strong, capable women who weren't mired down in religion or convention.

[Ruby the Liberal]

14. But how does that work? Birth Control isn't an evangelical issue

its pretty much limited to the Catholic Church.

[redqueen]

17. All the fanatically anti choice people

are against many forms of birth control, the pills because they're considered to be abortifascients. Not sure if I spelled that right but I associate those hare core anti choice types to be the super religious people. Not sure if that's correct but that's my impression anyway.

[Ruby the Liberal]

20. Well, then someone (or someones) needs to tell these morons

that if you want to prevent an abortion, the fastest way is to provide birth control.

Whats next - failed abstinence 'recommendations'? Lord knows thats a topic that evangelicals can sink their collective teeth into...

[tammywammy]

21. That's what I've seen too.

Hardcore pro-life considers birth control and preventing implation as abortion. Since they think life begins at conception, blocking implation of a fertilized egg is a form of abortion in their eyes.

[CrispyQ]

33. "Right to life," they chant, as they take off to McDonald's for lunch.

You can't argue 'right to life' with a piece of hamburger between your teeth. Once you put one species on the hierarchy over another, that 'right to life' argument looses all validity. It doesn't help that they are also war-mongering, execution applauding hypocrites.

[Vanje]

25. The Catholic Church , specifically its big wheels and bishops.

Not its regular members.

[Ruby the Liberal]

28. Yep. The same control freaks that hide the pedophiles in their midst. nt

[kdmorris]

8. I've been trying to figure that out for a while

Sometimes I think they are just playing to the far right-wing base... but they must know that everyone else isn't as crazy as their right wing base. So, then I wonder... how does that work? You win 21% of the vote, the other 79% think you are a crazy set of nutjobs.

Then I think.. is it just a way to whittle away at the health care bill? I wasn't one of it's biggest fans, perhaps one of the biggest critics of the final health care bill... but it did do SOME good.

I don't think there's anything they are covering up, but maybe I'm just too stressed out to think of that angle. Maybe they couldn't get another war started, so they started playing "wag the dog" with something so controversial that everyone will be talking about it while they do their Pinky and the Brain skit.

I guess that was one long-winded way of saying "I have no idea"

[Starry Messenger]

9. Partly it works as a drag on our resources as activists...

we have to divert a lot of energy to keep winning this battle. Partly it is because, imo, the right-wing likes the idea of a surplus population in poverty. It keeps corporations happy to know there is a steady supply of cheap and desperate workers. That keeps wages low and people fighting each other for resources to survive.

[Ruby the Liberal]

13. In a word? Control.

They are fast losing it over their own people, so they are doubling down on the entire country.

[Jamastiene]

15. It is a dog whistle for certain voters who think that way.

It has more to do with controlling women and keeping women in line in the eyes of those voters who think that way...and there are voters who think that way. It is not an overwhelming number of voters, but those are the voters the Republicans and more conservative Democrats play to, it seems, in every election. It's horrible and wrong, but that's what they do.

[MicaelS]

16. It allows them to flog the old "War on Religion" meme

That people of faith in the US are "oppressed" by "secular" government, and the "Antichrist" is just around the corner.

This whole "guillotine" thing is the key here, it's a "dog whistle politics for prayer warriors" theme

Supposedly in the Christian Fundamentalist worldview when the Antichrist takes power, he will execute those who do not worship him by guillotine.

Santorum: Obama leading Christians to the guillotine

During a campaign event in Plano, Texas, the candidate charged Obama had an “overt hostility to faith.”

“When you look and see what the left is trying to do in America today, progressives are trying to shutter faith, privatize it, push it out of the public square, oppress people of faith, strip their charitable deductions away from them, trying to weaken them, churches — trying to say that anyone who believes in the value of Judeo-Christian principles,” Santorum explained.

“As we saw in the Ninth Circuit just this week, that if you believe that [same sex marriage is wrong] — this is what the court said — that if believe that, if believe what’s taught in Genesis, if you believe what’s practiced Biblically and a generation since then you are irrational. The only possible reason you could believe this, according to the Ninth Circuit, is that you are a bigot and that you are a hater.”

He continued: “They are taking faith and crushing it. Why? When you marginalize faith in America, when you remove the pillar of God-given rights then what’s left is the French Revolution. What’s left is a government that gives you rights. What’s left are no unalienable rights. What’s left is a government that will tell you who you are, what you’ll do and when you’ll do it. What’s left in France became the the guillotine.”

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/1/13/14015/8393
Dog Whistle for Prayer Warriors - Palin as Victim of Blood Libel]

Some of her supporters believe themselves to be the most persecuted and oppressed minority in American history. Their media warns that Christian patriots are the new Jews, headed for a holocaust at the hands of a "dangerous Marxist/Leftist/Homosexual/Islamic coalition."

[Vanje]

26. Bingo

They are framing it as a "religious freedom" issue.

[CrispyQ]

31. I could almost laugh at the irony, if these people weren't such scary, crazy fucks.

progressives are trying to shutter faith, privatize it, push it out of the public square

Privatize it? This, coming from a group which support privatizing every other fucking thing. These people are not playing with a full deck & they are dangerous.

A few months ago Jack Cafferty did a segment on the dominionists & he was genuinely shocked at discovering what they were about - shocked in a bad way. In his following segment, he read some viewer comments. All but one expressed shock like Jack. The one? He argued freedom of religion.

CNN has never followed up on it, though. Surprise.

[Aerows]

18. You were aware that women get pregnant by themselves?

Let me repeat that.

Women get pregnant by themselves. Therefore, they are solely responsible for getting abortions, or needing birth control.

If they could control that driving need to get pregnant, even if they are young, like say, 12, then men could breathe easier at night. Every young woman dreams of being impregnated by a Rush Limbaugh figure. Seriously, they do.

Say it with me: Pregnancy happens because women exist. Men have no part in this and women spontaneously become impregnated.

[The empressof all]

19. And I could be imagining this but

I thought I heard on the tube today that the Catholic Church had no issue with paying for vasectomies which was of course part of their regular coverage. (Viagra as well btw).... I haven't looked to confirm that so I hope I'm not just besmirching their already well deserved bad name on this issue

[Aerows]

22. It's a men's health issue

See, if a man gets a vasectomy, that is because he doesn't want to force anymore children on his wife. If a woman uses birth control, she is interfering with her God-given role as a producer of more men.

It's simple, really.

My female cat out-hunts any male cat in existence, and could probably provide for sixteen families if necessary.

But religion tells us to submit to males. A religion written by males.

LOLOLOLOLOL

[The empressof all]

23. Well if they Listen to Santorums guy

They better start banning the aspirin as well.

[Aerows]

24. Women are superior

By Artemis and Athena.

That means... aspirins and pepto bismal are sacred, and can only be used if you bow down to the mother figures. Heart burn? It's because you didn't pay enough gratitude when devouring a hot dog.

[stevenleser]

27. They think most swing voters are Catholics, i.e. Reagan Dems and they think this plays to them

I dont think the whole 'Reagan Democrats' block exists anymore. Reagan won elections 30 years ago.

I think the Catholic laity (regular folks, not priests, bishops, cardinals, etc) has changed a lot in that time.

I grew up in a Catholic neighborhood and there were still some Catholic families with 6-12 young children. You almost never see that anymore. Almost no one can afford that now. So, either those people are no longer having sex, or they are using birth control. I dont think Santorum and his campaign understand that.

[CrispyQ]

30. They* are dismantling all vestiges of a progressive society.

They do this by owning the media & controlling the message. Capitalism is not to be questioned. Any kind of Christian religion is not to be questioned, no matter how extreme. Women are objects to be used as required/needed by men. You are what you own & if you don't own enough it's because you are a loser. People in prision deserve to be there & you are safer becaue of it.

And on & on with this cesspool of a culture they* have created.

I am so utterly sick of it all.


* The Kyriarchy - http://www.democraticunderground.com/11394032

[gkhouston]

34. Did you see The Rachel Maddow show last night? Elizabeth Warren was on.

Rachel asked her about this, and Elizabeth pointed out that the anti-birth control legislation could/would likely be used to bootstrap other laws/regulations that would basically allow insurers and employers to deny coverage for whatever struck their fancy. So it's a backhanded attempt to gut healthcare reform. Those aren't her exact words, but that's the point I believe she was trying to make.

[justiceischeap]

35. Thanks! I saw some of the interview but got a call in the middle of it. n/t