think I might be a drunk

[Bertha Venation]

What do you suggest besides AA? I don't believe in some higher power. (Seriously, don't come back with AA. )

[annabanana]

1. not AA

http://aaalternatives.com/why-not-a-a/

[Old Codger]

2. Seriously?

If you start out dismissing the most successful program around for helping alcoholics you tie your own hands right off the bat. I am an atheist and do not believe in any god at all period, but picking something that I could live with as a substitute saved my life.... I too attempted to sabotage my program by using the higher power thingy but after trying it on my own I decided there might just be something to making a stab at it and still not have any sort of god in my life, just something that would work for me no praying (except the serenity prayer) no gods just something I could use as a higher power... this discussion has been going on for years and will continue for years and will most likely never be settled.... IMHO anyone who wants to get sober/clean will do at least as much to accomplish that as they did to get drunk/high, if it means pretending then so be it.

[applegrove]

3. I had trouble with that too when I joined AA. The thing is a higher power can be anything.

I made my higher power 'nature' because I can get behind that. The higher power thing is important because it forces you to say you have no control over alcohol and yourself with alcohol. So you hand the power over to something else. And admit to yourself you are powerless. Why it works is that alcoholics always lie to themselves and say "well I can stop at any time" or "I'll only have one". And admitting that these are lies is a big step on the way to to never having a drink.

I didn't get it at first and thought to myself I can't do it. I can't hand power over to god. But when I replaced 'god' with 'nature' I could do it. Something would likely work for you. And it worked wonders for me because I love nature already. Now I don't even have a sip because I know it would never end there. It isn't within me to ever drink responsibly. I never will. And handing that 'power' 'to drink' over to something or someone else makes it a permanent understanding with oneself.

I highly reccommend that you try AA. They are flexable.

[Old Codger]

4. Amen

That is the basic idea,you state it better than I can.... I needed to do that also, some use the whole AA idea as a higher power, some use seemingly silly idiotic things but what they all have in common is a desire to get sober and remain sober... The main idea is "whatever it takes" if you are willing to go to any lengths to regain control of your life and learn to accept life on life's terms then you are giving yourself the best chance of succeeding. The best advice I can come up with along the lines of a higher power is do not pick a single person.

[NMDemDist2]

5. ....

Last edited Mon Feb 11, 2013, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)

If, when you honestly want to, you
find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you
have little control over the amount you take, you are
probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be
suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
To one who feels he is an atheist or agnostic such an
experience seems impossible, but to continue as he is
means disaster, especially if he is an alcoholic of the
hopeless variety. To be doomed to an alcoholic death
or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy
alternatives to face.

But it isn’t so difficult. About half our original
fellowship were of exactly that type. At first some of
us tried to avoid the issue, hoping against hope we
were not true alcoholics. But after a while we had to
face the fact that we must find a spiritual basis of life
—or else. Perhaps it is going to be that way with you.
But cheer up, something like half of us thought we
were atheists or agnostics. Our experience shows that
you need not be disconcerted.

If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of
life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us
would have recovered long ago. But we found that
such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter
how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we
could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact,
we could will these things with all our might, but the
needed power wasn’t there. Our human resources, as
marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed
utterly.

Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to
find a power by which we could live, and it had to be
a Power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where
and how were we to find this Power?
Well, that’s exactly what this book is about. Its
main object is to enable you to find a Power greater
than yourself which will solve your problem. That
means we have written a book which we believe to
be spiritual as well as moral. And it means, of course,
that we are going to talk about God. Here difficulty
arises with agnostics. Many times we talk to a new
man and watch his hope rise as we discuss his alcoholic problems and explain our fellowship. But his face
falls when we speak of spiritual matters, especially
when we mention God, for we have re-opened a subject which our man thought he had neatly evaded or
entirely ignored.

We know how he feels. We have shared his honest
doubt and prejudice. Some of us have been violently
anti-religious. To others, the word “God’’ brought up
a particular idea of Him with which someone had tried
to impress them during childhood. Perhaps we rejected this particular conception because it seemed
inadequate. With that rejection we imagined we had
abandoned the God idea entirely. We were bothered
with the thought that faith and dependence upon a
Power beyond ourselves was somewhat weak, even
cowardly. We looked upon this world of warring
individuals, warring theological systems, and inexplicable calamity, with deep skepticism. We looked
askance at many individuals who claimed to be godly.
How could a Supreme Being have anything to do with
it all? And who could comprehend a Supreme Being
anyhow? Yet, in other moments, we found ourselves
thinking, when enchanted by a starlit night, “Who,
then, made all this?’’ There was a feeling of awe and
wonder, but it was fleeting and soon lost.

Yes, we of agnostic temperament have had these
thoughts and experiences. Let us make haste to reassure you. We found that as soon as we were able to
lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to
believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible
for any of us to fully define or comprehend that
Power, which is God.

Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need
to consider another’s conception of God. Our own
conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to
make the approach and to effect a contact with Him.
As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a
Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed
of a new sense of power and direction, provided we
took other simple steps.

We take the steps, it works or it doesn't. How do you know before you try it out? When there's no other ideas left maybe you'll be willing to lay aside your fears and reach out.

[libodem]

6. I'm still

Practicing so I'm no role model. I've been involved in Al anon any do try and read my daily, One Day at a Time, book for guidance.

Both my folks got sober in AA. My dad was an atheist intellectual. He was a very intelligent man and did NOT like the religious overtones what so ever. Trouble was he had a DWI, while driving a state car. He was going to, out smart the program, and attend meetings just long enough to get his licence back. He found a way around the Higher Power, talk at first. He came to believe in the power of the group. He was sober for his last 30 years.

He left a living legacy to his children and to those he sponsored. Both my folks did.

[libodem]

7. I also worked in a treatment center

And took a lot of inquiry calls. That is part and parcel of treatment centers, getting clients in for an evaluation, to gain another paying customer.

I told callers that if they were thinking they had a problem they probably did. The quiz a councillor gives leaves little wiggle room. Pretty much if you have more than two drinks at a sitting, you will be condemned. The other questions I remember had to do with the social impact the drinker may have such as trouble on the job, troubles in the family, trouble with the law.

My mom used to say it is not how much or how often one drinks but the change in personality that can take the person over, when they become intoxicated. That was just homegrown wisdom, from meetings.

[Bertha Venation]

8. You know what? I don't remember posting this thread.

What does that tell you?

[NMDemDist2]

9. ....

well, it's not good news i don't think


what do you think?

[Bertha Venation]

10. Yeah. Not good.

:shakes head:

[cally]

11. I entered AA outraged at the higher power stuff

I was very, very angry but I could not stop drinking and the women in the rooms had stopped. I wanted the sobriety they had so I thought to myself that I would just go to meetings and try. That's all and I got sober and have some time. I will do whatever it takes to keep this new life I have and knowing that I am powerless over alcohol is a big part of staying sober. I know that I needed a group of women to help me get and stay sober. I could not do it on my own. A big part of finally believe you can get sober and stay sober is accepting that a power greater than yourself can help. As others have said, that can be many things.

I know there are other programs out there but AA has changed so many lives plus there are often more meetings available at all times of the day or night. That's critical because there will be minutes, hours, days where you need a meeting now. I initially tried rational recovery but there were not enough meetings available. I can find an AA meeting many times during the day and night in my community and when I travel.

[Stuart G]

12. What could a higher power be??

1. nature
2. traditional God/diety
3. love
4. strength of the members of the program
5. serenity
6 peace
7. hope
8. any entity a member chooses that is larger and outside himself/herself.
9. power of helping others
10. force for good
11. kindness....
12. something like above.......

please note: NO HIGHER POWER POLICE IN AA OR.........ANY 12 STEP PROGRAM

[TommyCelt]

13. 12 years sober coming up in August

AA saved my life...at the beginning. I understand your thoughts and reservations about the "God" thing. It IS a spiritual program, and I can see how a confirmed atheist could take issue with that.

Finding a fellowship at the beginning, I believe, is critical. It doesn't have to be AA. But talking with people who understand what addictive craving is, how far beyond it is than "needing a drink", is crucial, in my opinion. I no longer attend AA regularly...I'm theist and I now get my spiritual food elsewhere.

Definitely look into those AA alternatives one of the posters linked to. If they work for you, bravo. If you'd like to contact me, I'm at [e-mail]. I'd be happy to help in any way possible.

Best of luck to you.

[tavalon]

14. Sorry, I'd like to follow your rule, but AA and all the anonymous 12 step groups

are so profoundly helpful to so many people, it doesn't make sense not to mention it. BTW, we each develop our own concept of "higher power". I don't believe in a sky daddy, but I found my higher power, two in fact. One, my higher self and two, the rooms.

[libodem]

15. exactly

It can be made to work for anyone who will give it a shot.