1986 Machine Gun ban being challenged in court

[Lurks Often]

Here is the link to the court filing: http://www.scribd.com/doc/245057730/Hollis-v-Holder-Complaint

Here is a summary of the 1986 Machine Gun Ban:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act#Ban_on_machine_guns

In short, any new machine gun made after 1986 can not be transferred to a private owner

It'll be interesting to see how far this gets

And for those unaware an M-16 capable of fully automatic fire starts at around $12,000 and goes up there depending configuration and make.

[TreasonousBastard]

1. At what point does this stop? If...

they get this, can they get field artillery pieces?

[Lurks Often]

2. You can already buy working artillery pieces

Anything pre 1898 requires no Federal permit or license, anything after 1898 requires a destructive device permit.

Below is the listed types of Federal Firearm Licenses, see Type 10

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License

Modern stuff:

A casual search doesn't say how much, but I'd be surprised at anything under $50,000 and it probably went for over $100,000 and that doesn't include the truck and trailer to transport it.

And flame throwers are not regulated under Federal law at all.

[oneshooter]

3. Here is some artillery that is for sale now.

[sarisataka]

4. Yes you can

Own artillery.
http://www.milweb.net/classifieds.php?type=6

BATFE also requires a $200 tax stamp and ammo is a bit expensive (not easy to find either)

All it takes is money and the willingness to fill out the paperwork.

Tanks are available too. Microsoft cofounder Paul Allan (and major gun control donor) recently spent $2.5 million to purchase a Panzer IV.

[oneshooter]

16. Tax stamp needed only on exploding ammo. Thats $200 PER ROUND.

Solid shot is acceptable. Most use cast aluminum projectiles.

[benEzra]

5. Some are trying to get machineguns regulated like field artillery pieces

instead of being regulated more strictly than field artillery. Not sure if that's what this case is about or not.

[jimmy the one]

6. who needs an m16?

And for those unaware an M-16 capable of fully automatic fire starts at around $12,000 and goes up there depending configuration and make.

Aww, smart gunnies getting that done with AR15 conversion kits, only a couple hundred bucks.

[VScott]

7. O'rly?

You have a cite or any examples of this taking place and/or source for the parts?

Hint... "those conversion kits" aren't what you think they are.

[jimmy the one]

10. barfa kit

discntnt: The skills required to "convert" a semi-auto to full-auto......are roughly the same skills needed to build a full-auto from scratch. If you have those skills, your experience is gunsmith level and the only barrier to your producing a full-auto would likely be having you locked up in prison.

vscott: You have a cite or any examples of this taking place and/or source for the parts?
Hint... "those conversion kits" aren't what you think they are.

http://www.arfakit.com/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=153566

[VScott]

12. It's an 80% 'Lightning Link' (or some bastardization of one)

I imagine it looks something like this (or close enough)...

[img][/img]

Here's another site that has (had), 100% ones.
It's in Sweden, what their gun laws are like I have no idea.

http://www.rh-custom.se/product.php?id_product=31

Legally manufactured ones (pre 1981), run in the $6,000 - $8,000 range (guesstimate).

Why so much for a simple piece of metal you can hold in your hand you ask?

Because it's not a "conversion kit". The ATF classifies and treats Lightning Links
http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/lightninglink.html (and Drop In Auto Sears),
http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html as if they were a machine gun,
meaning one has to pay an additional tax $200.00 NFA tax on it.

FWIW, this is a "conversion kit"...

[img][/img]

http://www.ftfindustries.com/category/M16FA.html

Only problem is, all those parts by themselves won't magically transform an AR15 into a full-auto M16;
one still needs the critical full auto sear (which the ATF classifies as being a machine gun),
and they'd still have to drill an additional hole in the receiver. BTW... just drilling that hole sans possession
of any of those other parts can land a person in prison.

The thing with the ARFAKIT is nothing new. Take offs on it have been around since the early 80's at least.
It's been long rumored in the firearms community, that the ones that aren't scams are ATF sting operations.

In that time period, how many incidents, arrests have taken place where an illegal full-auto conversion has taken place?

This kind of crap is a non-existent/never existed problem.

[ileus]

8. You're not talking about that dumb slidefire junk are you?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. The skills required to "convert" a semi-auto to full-auto...

...are roughly the same skills needed to build a full-auto from scratch. If you have those skills, your experience is gunsmith level and the only barrier to your producing a full-auto would likely be having you locked up in prison.

Why does full-auto matter to you?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

11. Are you seriously unable...

...to actually reply normally (is in to the posts addressed to you)? Just curious...

[DonP]

13. It hides his multiple responses in the word salad

That way he can insult multiple posters in one long post that no one wants bother to wade through.

Then he goes away, congratulating himself on; "Telling all those gun nutz what for".

What other reason to not actually reply to a post addressed to you?

But his antics have grown old, stale and repetitive.

After all when you get your hat handed to you in court, in legislatures across the country and in threads here, it gets easier and easier to ignore him and his ilk.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

14. Yeah... the turtle and the scorpion

[AzureCrest]

17. You're expecting a coherent reply from "Jimmy the None"?