How to Buy a Gun in 15 Countries

[hueymahl]

Really interesting article in the NYTimes today about what it takes to buy a gun in different countries. I'm on the record for supporting your right to buy a gun but adding a lot more oversight and regulation for the protection of society. In this article, I particularly like the approach Japan takes, with some changes (I would strike item 1, increase the frequency of of the classes in item 2, strike item 5, and I don't understand item 7):

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/02/world/international-gun-laws.html

Japan 1) Join a hunting or shooting club. 2) Take a firearm class and pass a written exam, which is held up to three times a year. 3) Get a doctor’s note saying you are mentally fit and do not have a history of drug abuse. 4) Apply for a permit to take firing training, which may take up to a month. 5) Describe in a police interview why you need a gun. 6) Pass a review of your criminal history, gun possession record, employment, involvement with organized crime groups, personal debt and relationships with friends, family and neighbors. 7) Apply for a gunpowder permit. 8) Take a one-day training class and pass a firing test. 9) Obtain a certificate from a gun dealer describing the gun you want. 10) Buy a gun safe and an ammunition locker that meet safety regulations. 11) Allow the police to inspect your gun storage. 12) Pass an additional background review. 13) Buy a gun.

[gejohnston]

1. Not going to happen,

Japan has no exclusionary rule, meaning evidence from illegal searches are admissible. You have no right to a lawyer while questioning. Forced confessions, even under torture, are admissible. You don't juries. You have three-judge panels, where conviction/acquittal rates affect their careers. IOW, forget fair trials.
Also, the cops tend to write off cold cases as suicides.
It is also not a diverse (by any definition of the word), nor is it anywhere as individualistic as ours.

None of these countries passed their gun laws to protect society from crime. It had more to do with fearing political violence and revolution. That is especially true in most of Europe (1920s) and Mexico (1960s)

[hueymahl]

2. Wow, that is an amazing numbers of non-sequiturs

The point of my post, in case you missed it, is the proposal of reasonable regulation of guns to protect society. It was not an attempt to evaluate the history and merits of the Japanese judicial system.

Other than a blanket "not going to happen", do you have any comment on the effectiveness of the actual regulations?

[gejohnston]

3. Japan is not an example of reasonable gun regulation

the only "effectiveness" is that there are fewer gun suicides with zero effect on the suicide rate as a whole.

[hueymahl]

4. Again, this is not a discussion about Japan

Even though you seemed determined to make it one. It is a discussion about what would constitute reasonable regulations of our gun laws; I proposed a modified list used by Japan.

However, I will indulge your desire to not address the core issue and respond to your point about Japan. I find it more than a bit disingenuous to assert that gun suicide rates vs. overall suicide rates somehow means their gun regulations are not effective.

If you look at overall firearm related deaths, Japan is .06 per 100,000 with homicides less than .01 per 100,000. The U.S., by comparison is 10.54 per 100,000 with homicides at 3.43 per 100,000. The overall homicide rate for Japan (by any method) is .31. The rate in the US is 4.88.

Nice try, though.

[gejohnston]

5. You made it about Japan,

I'm missing the point of the post.

Their homicide problem is nothing like ours (they also count them differently, since murder/suicides are classed as multiple suicides and cold cases being written off as suicides). Most of ours are criminal gangs killing each other concentrated in a few zip codes.

The two are not comparable at all.

[hueymahl]

7. I'm not going to keep talking about Japan

I included where these suggestions came from out of a sense of transparency and to avoid plagiarism. Ignore Japan. This list, as amended by me, is what I am proposing for the U.S.

Or keep talking about Japan and ignore responding to the substance. Your choice, but I won't respond further if you do, and you will make it abundantly clear to other readers of what you are all about.

[gejohnston]

8. You said that people should have the right

What you are describing is a privilege. Should a relative's membership in Greenpeace deny you a permit to own a gun? That is how it works there.

[The Polack MSgt]

9. As someone who lived in Japan, I believe huey's point is

That you can't graft a regulatory process form a country with a vastly different judicial/legal history into our system, yell Abracadabra and assume success.

The same for any other country's regulations. America needs to have this fight and decide where the line actually lies for ourselves.

[gejohnston]

10. I lived in Japan as well.

Okinawa to be exact.
Not only judicial/legal history but culture. For example, 12-year-olds in Canada can buy rifle and shotgun ammo after taking a safety course. I would not recommend that for here.

[The Polack MSgt]

11. wooops, I transposed your names...

I was speaking to hueymahl - about you

[AzureCrest]

12. Just curious?

Is it really wrong to make a joke about a posted named "Polack MSgt" getting two names transposed?

[The Polack MSgt]

13. Just be glad ya aren't around when I need

To change a light bulb...



Or, wait, wut --- Are you busting my chops over the whole SNCO senility syndrome issue?

[yagotme]

14. Semper Fi, mac...

Semper Fi.

4 yrs on the Rock myself...

[gejohnston]

15. When and which base?

I was at Kadena from May 1986-Dec 1989.

[yagotme]

16. LOL

Stepped off the plane on 6-6-86. Camp Foster (MCB Camp Butler command), Mar 90 off.

[sarisataka]

6. Strike items

1,3,4,5,7,9,11,12
Place no arbitrary limit on classes in 2
BGC in 6 limited to criminal and mental health history
Failure to comply with 10 will result in th gun owner held liable for crimes committed with the gun