Guns, rifles, AR-15s

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

From 16 August 2023 - 31 August 2023, nationwide-
Shootings: 2000
Shootings involving a rifle: 29
Shootings involving a .223 caliber firearm: 8 ... (AR-15s are .223 caliber)

I used the the gun violence archive as a source.

[AndyS]

1. Yeah, it's only 8 this year. Who gives a shit about just 8.

In 2012 it was 26 in one shooting, Sandy Hook. Last year it was 21 dead and 17 injured at Uvalde.

Yeah, it's a sub set of the massive killing that goes on every year so we should just get over it.

I say FUCK that. I can walk and chew gum. I can care about 8 as well as the other 100,000 people shot.

Justify all ya' want. That whole idea just sucks and sucks a big one.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

3. Sorry not 8 this year, 8 in the last few weeks. n/t

[AndyS]

5. I guess I misread the post although my mind was saying, "Where the F did these numbers come

from?"

More important is, I think, who were they? What were their names? How is the family coping with such a loss? And finally, WHY?

[beemerphill]

2. Run this through a calculator,

It works out to a little less than one-half of one percent. Actually, it is .4%. Perhaps we should be looking at the other 1971 shootings to see what type of firearms were used.

[AndyS]

4. That's the NRA/NSSF way of looking at things.

Split the bloodshed into smaller and smaller pieces so it's confusing how to proceed with doing anything.

Anything that reduces the number of long/short/semi auto/military style/nonmilitary style will affect the rest. Don't lose sight of the problem: TOO MANY GUNS TOO EASY TO GET.

Do anything to change that and the deaths and injuries will follow--so far we as a country have been aggravating the problem with our policy choices.

[TexasDem69]

10. I agree

But how do we solve this problem while protecting the constitutional rights of the millions and millions of law abiding gun owners who commit no crime? Background checks for all gun sales is a good start, and stiffer sentences for felons who own a gun illegally or use one in a crime seems reasonable.

[AndyS]

11. From the Democratic party platform:

Democrats will enact universal background checks, end online sales of guns and ammunition, close dangerous loopholes that currently allow stalkers, abusive partners, and some individuals convicted of assault or battery to buy and possess firearms, and adequately fund the federal background check system. We will close the “Charleston loophole” and prevent individuals who have been convicted of hate crimes from possessing firearms. Democrats will ban the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and high capacity magazines. We will incentivize states to enact licensing requirements for owning firearms and extreme risk protection order laws that allow courts to temporarily remove guns from the possession of those who are a danger to
themselves or others. We will pass legislation requiring that guns be safely stored in homes. And
Democrats believe that gun companies should be held responsible for their products, just like any
other business.

I still haven't found that part you referanced in a previous thread about the party platform "protects an individual right to own firearms." Got a page number for me? I might have missed it . . .

[TexasDem69]

12. Old platform under President Obama

Link here - https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2012-democratic-party-platform. The individual right language no longer appears in the platform but at the same time I don’t see anything arguing it’s a collective right. That ship has long sailed.

[AndyS]

13. Eight years out of date but okay it was an idea once upon a time.

Meanwhile after looking at the current platform how do you feel about supporting each and every one of the planks I offered you?

[TexasDem69]

14. I generally support the party platform

As I assume you did in 2012? But I feel some will make a difference, some won’t, and some are either too vague or too pie in the sky to matter.

[AndyS]

15. I sense a sliding scale here. To 'generally support but' is lack luster support at best.

You do realize that the word "but" negates everything that came before, right? Like "I'm not a racist but . . ."

Let's have a discussion about which of the provisions you think will make a difference, which won't and which should be ignored as pie in the sky or too vague.

You start.

[TexasDem69]

16. I'm still waiting for you to tell me how we make a difference

While respecting an individual right to own firearms. Any interest in taking that on, other than pointing to a platform you didn’t draft? And if you can’t do that, at least you can tell me which of the platform points you support that you think will make a difference.

And I clearly said I support the platform while questioning the efficacy of some of the proposals. You can do better than unwarranted supposition and character attacks.

[AndyS]

17. Well, being as you finally responded to one of my queries I guess it's only fair.

In my personal opinion there is no individual right to own a firearm, rather it is a collective right. For the first few hundred years the SCOTUS agreed with that but somehow Scalia, a strict texturalist, found such a right in the 2nd amendment. How a texturalist can do that is beyond me but then the SCOTUS has become something unrecognizable. So, operating within the current circumstances there are literally dozens of ways to let people own guns and reduce gun violence.

Joe Biden is doing one of them right now: redefining who is a gun dealer and who has to meet those requirements which include inventory management, record keeping and performing background checks. Before the new ATF rules (paraphrasing for convenience) a dealer was someone making the preponderance of income from firearms sales. The new rules (again paraphrasing) include anyone who invests effort, time and generates profit from gun sales. This can affect as many as 140,000 sideline gun sellers. It will reduce the number of guns sold without a background check (possibly by as much as 30%) and reduce the number of dealers to only those willing to invest in following the rules. It will not affect someone disposing of a collection, a family member selling to family or friend or the casual one time disposal of a gun.

How do you feel about that?

[AndyS]

18. I've made one reply to #15 but perhaps I need to be more specific.

First about the platform. As a matter of fact I did contribute the 2012 Party Platform. The party platform is designed by the party members. After each precinct votes in the primary the precinct chair may hold a party meeting specifically to address the party's platform. I did that as precinct chair in the 2012 election season. All precinct suggestions are forwarded to the county convention where they are collated, voted on, new ideas added and the resulting condensation forwarded to the state convention where it is lather, rinse repeat before going to the National Convention. Some of my precinct's ideas made the cut, some didn't.

You support the platform with reservations. Very good, almost all Democrats fit that description. Your initial platform comment was basically a demand that I support one plank. I did not just as you seemingly have issues with the current platform. Not a problem there. We clear now?

As for my support of and which planks will reduce gun violence without restricting the mythical 2nd amendment right, I support each one and believe each one from background checks to repealing the PLCAA will reduce gun violence.

Haven't heard back about the Safer Communities Act that I talked about in the other post but perhaps you have thoughts about this post.

[yagotme]

19. That's what the "banners" like to do.

Split the banned classes into smaller and smaller bits, not caring if the current favorite class has anything to do with solving a problem or not. Saturday Night Specials? Plastic Guns? Assault Weapons? Ghost Guns? Let's ban murder, and get to the heart of the problem.

[The Mouth]

20. My preferred solution is life without parole

for *ANY* conviction regarding using a gun in a crime. Period, no exemptions, exclusions, or exceptions.

[yagotme]

21. Yup.

Use a gun (or, really, any other dangerous weapon), should end up with a loooooong sentence. Firing it should be no parole.

[dpibel]

6. Can you help me out?

I went to the Gun Violence Archive, https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/.

I can't find anything there that lets me look at the numbers for a date range, nor can I see anything that breaks shootings down by type of weapon.

I know it's not your job to do my research. But I gave it my best shot, and would appreciate it if you could give me some hints how to find on that site the information that's in your post.

Thanks.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

7. Sorry it took a bit to notice this.

Here you go: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/query
Use the "Add a rule" link to filter.
It seems that any query is restricted to not more than 2000 results.

[dpibel]

8. Thanks

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. You're welcome

You may also be interested in WISQARS™ — Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System:
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html