Russia's Journey from Orthodoxy to Atheism, and Back Again

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

In Russia, there is a religious revival happening. Orthodox Christianity is thriving after enduring a 70-year period of atheistic Soviet rule. In 1991, just after the collapse of the USSR, about two-thirds of Russians claimed no religious affiliation. Today, 71 percent of Russians identify as Orthodox...….

Russia was transformed from a bastion of conservative Orthodoxy in the nineteenth century into the world’s leading promoter of atheism in the twentieth. This historical backdrop of Russia’s remarkable journey from Orthodoxy to atheism, and back again, is chronicled in Victoria Smolkin’s A Sacred Space is Never Empty: A History of Soviet Atheism.....



Under Lenin and Stalin, new atheist organizations like the League of the Militant Godless waged war on religious institutions. Although churches and monasteries were technically legal, officials found ways of shutting them down, and they transformed some of them into cathedrals of atheism.

To read more:

https://religionandpolitics.org/2018/10/16/russias-journey-from-orthodoxy-to-atheism-and-back-again/

The pendulum swings. And yet another example that intolerance is deeply rooted in human society.

[saidsimplesimon]

1. Putin uses religion for political purposes.

Last edited Fri Oct 19, 2018, 05:28 PM - Edit history (1)

I do not claim a causal relationship, but, Putin cements his power with a nod from and support for Russian Orthodox religious believers. imo

[guillaumeb]

2. Many politicians in many countries use religion as a tool.

But "forced conversion" and intolerance cannot win an argument.

[marylandblue]

3. In the long run, it's won more arguments than anything else

Maybe it won't really convince the people forced to convert, but their great grandchildren will not know any other kind of life.

[guillaumeb]

4. The article suggests that Russians are coming back to religion.

History suggests that religion is very deeply rooted, and while authoritarian regimes come and go, religion remains. Russia and China are 2 examples of a government, officially atheist in these 2 examples, behaving intolerantly.

[marylandblue]

35. Maybe so, but your one sentence comment in the OP didn't say that

It may be helpful if you provided more detailed commentary in your posts.

[guillaumeb]

38. Understood. eom

[sprinkleeninow]

5. Why do you specify 'Greek' Orthodox?

Bartholomeo is of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate in Constantinople.

Do you have a citation that 'he' and his are BFFs
w/putin?

[saidsimplesimon]

6. Sorry, thanks for the correction Russian Orthodox

I will fix the original.

[sprinkleeninow]

16. Thanx for that. We communicated at an Orthodox Church of the Greek Jurisdiction.

They are [were] not connected to the ROC except for communion. Well, that remains to be seen.

We assimilated into the Greek Church and felt completely at home considering my Slavic ancestry and Mother parish/church upbringing. [Not ROC, but not that I have anything against them per se.]

This development is troubling, but what can one do.

[guillaumeb]

7. Perhaps confusion about the fact that Russian Orthodox Christians

are not the same as Greek Orthodox Christians. There are many types of Orthodox Christians.

[sprinkleeninow]

15. 😘

[Major Nikon]

46. Both are Eastern Orthodox

So no, not really many types of "Orthodox Christians".

[guillaumeb]

50. There are numerous types.

From different countries. You might want to do a little reading about them before making a pronouncement.

[Major Nikon]

51. Kinda funny how you claim "numerous types" yet can't name one example

Or at least it would be funny were it not so predictable.

[guillaumeb]

53. Is "Google" missing from your computer?

If you do have it, educate yourself. The internet has many gif(t)s.

[Major Nikon]

55. The best part about you not having an answer is the waffling

Please continue, if only for the entertainment value.

[guillaumeb]

56. Much better.

Stay with your gif(t). Better that way.

[Major Nikon]

57. And yet still better than the zero examples you've provided

Please continue. I love it when you make a spectacle out of yourself.

[guillaumeb]

58. The gif(t)s are better. Especially the penguin.

[Major Nikon]

60. Still no example

[Voltaire2]

8. Are you aware that Russia is now a fascist state

and that the Russian Orthodox Church has aligned itself with Putin’s fascist state and its horrendous homophobia and misogyny?

Do you really think this specific return to religion is a good thing?

[guillaumeb]

9. Putin is a dictator, as was Lenin and Stalin.

Do I feel that religion is a good thing?

Yes, I do.

[Voltaire2]

10. An explicitly homophobic and misogynistic

religion is a good thing.

You amaze me. Not really. I mean that should be amazing on a progressive Democratic board. But it isn’t.

[edhopper]

11. Not to mention

extremely anti-Semitic.

[guillaumeb]

12. Your framing and motivation are understood.

And it does not amaze me. Even on a progressive board like this, there is intolerance.

[Voltaire2]

13. Whatever.

You’ve stepped in it again with yet another thoughtless post.

[guillaumeb]

21. Your insight never ceases to amaze many.

[edhopper]

14. But you have no problem

with the institutional intolerance in the Russian Orthodox Church.

Let's all support homophobia, misoginy and anti-semitism. Cause at least they have belief.

[MineralMan]

17. Faith Trumps Everything Else, See?

Or, at least, it does in some people's estimation. In the instant case, it's OK that the Russian Orthodox church reinforces the homophobia, misogyny and antisemitism of the Russian state, because Faith trumps all that. So we are to believe, anyhow.

Faith in anything is better than opposition to bigotry and intolerance, in some people's minds. I find that sort of shocking, really.

[edhopper]

18. And just pointing that out

makes you intolerant to people of faith. Funny how that works.

[MineralMan]

19. 'Tis a puzzlement.

[guillaumeb]

26. And the intolerance for people of faith

that was a pillar of Russian atheism?

How does that particular type of intolerance work?

[edhopper]

27. Do you see any one here

praising Soviet Russia or saying it was good that the people had Lenin, Stalin etc... the way you are saying them having the ROC is a good thing.

[guillaumeb]

48. So we agree that intolerance is bad.

[edhopper]

54. Yes

And i don't see people turning to the ROC making it any better in Russia. Putin is homophobic and now he has the ROC to back him up.

[Major Nikon]

45. Why don't you start with telling me how this works

Can you cite any atheist dogma or doctrine that demands intolerance?

[guillaumeb]

49. Only the obvious examples

as practiced by the atheist rulers of Russia and China.

[Major Nikon]

52. Both of which were ruled by totalitarians who also persecuted groups for non-religious reasons

But do keep trying to pretend atheism has such dogma or doctrine, even though you can't produce any evidence for it outside of your imagination. Meanwhile intolerant dogma and doctrine within Christianity and other organized religions just isn't that hard to find, along with copious examples of people actually doing what that dogma and doctrine demands. I get that you are desperate to invoke your trademark whataboutism, but unfortunately the best you can muster is a faceplant.

[guillaumeb]

23. And what led you to this conclusion?

Feel free to cite relevant posts of mine to support your claim.

[edhopper]

24. your posts praise the return of this religion to Russia

"Do I feel that religion is a good thing?

Yes, I do."

And I nowhere see your condemnation of the bigotry and intolerance that is systemic in the ROC.

You are free to show us otherwise.

[guillaumeb]

25. So because I did not write a 10,000 word treatise,

and I did not take a position on every action taken by a believer somewhere in Russia, I am embracing every action?

An interesting argument to make.

[edhopper]

28. How aboput one single sentence

condemning the bigotry and intolerance that is systemic in the ROC.

How about one post about the troubling side of the church.

Nice Strawman you got there.

[guillaumeb]

29. I wrote:

Do I feel that religion is a good thing?

Yes, I do.

And Voltaire apparently misread a very basic assertion as something else. And your diversion from the actual topic is noted.

Perhaps because the post contradicts the simplistic view that religion must inevitably die out as people "evolve".


Your response is classic whataboutism in action in an attempt to divert from the topic.

[edhopper]

30. No

we are specifically talking about the very big downside of the ROC becoming dominant in Russia again.

But I guess the homophobia, misogyny and antisemitism is easily overlooked by you for the wonderful benefits of "Faith", no matter what that faith is in.

[guillaumeb]

31. Again, you are engaging in whataboutism

because you refuse, so far, to discuss my point. Your attempt to divert and derail is noted.

[edhopper]

32. I am specifically talking about the ROC in Russia

that ain't whataboutism.

But thanks for playing.

[guillaumeb]

33. The post was about the resurgence of faith in a country

where the atheistic rulers were determined to eliminate religion.

And you attempted to divert to another topic.

Classic whataboutism.

[edhopper]

34. You really don't understand whataboutism

Your post on the subject illustrates that.

Your OP was specifically about the ROC. I and others pointed out why faith in this Church migh not be good.

It;s discussion on the same topic.

If don't want anyone to say soething bad in your threads, there are safe forums on DU.

[marylandblue]

39. So do you think it's good the ROC is coming back or not?

[Major Nikon]

37. His latest tactic is to call everything whataboutism

As if nobody is going to call bullshit. It's basically a shitposting exercise intended to imply everyone engages in it, so it must be OK when he counters with some random atheist hurting someone's feelings as a response to child rape in the RCC.

[edhopper]

43. The funny thing about that

is his OP specifically about whataboutism got it wrong.

[Major Nikon]

44. You just don't understand

Defensive accusatory propaganda designed to counter criticism is really the same thing as calling someone out for putting lipstick on a pig.

[MineralMan]

20. As is your attempt at diversion from the point.

[guillaumeb]

22. Do you mean Voltaire's attempted diversion from my post?

Or is it excusable if it comes from the choir?

[Major Nikon]

36. When child rape isn't an obstacle to the promotion of the RCC...

It shouldn't surprise anyone he'd promote such a bigoted and corrupt organization.

[guillaumeb]

40. More diversion.

Now, on the subject of intolerance by a declared atheistic government, what is your own opinion?

Is atheistic inspired intolerance better than theistic intolerance?

[Major Nikon]

41. So you make a claim of diversion, and then proceed to divert

[guillaumeb]

47. No, my question relates to the actual post.

Stay with your gif(t).

[Major Nikon]

59. Your question had nothing to do with my post

Stay with your canned replies. Oh wait....

[MineralMan]

42. Tu Quoque...