When are Christian Liberals not Progressive People of Faith?

[Festivito]

I see Progressive People of Faith as sufficient for the forum title, unless there is a distinction I'm missing.

[pnwmom]

1. There is a distinction. But I agree with you that Progressive People of Faith

is a better title, since not every Progressive with a faith is Christian.

[Festivito]

3. Is the & in the forum title mathematical or logical, adding the two or excluding not being both.

And, adding that the meaning of the word liberal changes and defies being universally defined, the forum title, I find, disconcerting.

I don't mind being progressive enough to de-denigrate the word liberal, for example calling the forum Progressive/Liberal people of faith.

[Betty Karlson]

2. I'm progressive, but not liberal

When it comes to orthodoxy, I'm rigidly calvinist. I hold dear the Heidelberg catechism, the Dordrecht Articles of Faith, I read sermon collections (in print and on the Internet). I believe every (wo)man is born a sinner. I believe that all good things come from God, including our desire for salvation. From a liberal point of view, I'm not "one of them".

In fact, even philosphically I'm a conservative: opposed to change for the sake of change, in favour of necessary change.

But here is the strange thing. Through my orthodoxy and "conservatism", I find myself vehemently opposed to the GOP policies and very much in favour of "liberal" political ideas. A few examples:

Jesus spoke in favour of women's emancipation. Therefore I am too.
Jesus spoke against the marginalisation of the poor. Therefore I'm in favour of Keynesian policies.
Jesus (and the entire Old Testament, too) warn against avarice. Guess what I think of the Bush tax cuts.
Jesus never said anything against gay and lesbian couples. Neither did Paul, whatever Rick Warren might have told you. So I'm in favour of gay marriage. (In fact: as a calvinist, I'd like to revisit the values of the earliest churches, without all the nonsense that the Middle Ages burdened Christianity with. The earliest churches recognised gay marriages.)
The GOP is a radical party. As Edmund Burke would have told you, conservatives are opposed to radicals of any ilk.

Would this help you to understand the distinction?

[Festivito]

4. Enjoying your post, I wonder how you define liberal.

Perhaps, I guess, you define liberal as not conservative, while defining conservative as conserving heritage.

Your examples show me a liberal in sense of liberty for women, poor, ... ,etc, which seems to come from your Biblically-based conservative ideology.

I like fiscal conservativism exemplified by Al Gore streamlining government, reducing size and cost of government services, only, intelligently. This has me called a Liberal by Conservative friends who cannot seem to answer the question: what do they conserve.

I see my self as liberal and you as "one of us." (And, a friend)

So, I'm seeing the title of the forum as somehow needing to incorporate both liberal and progressive.

Aside: Your post shows a time of 9:06 AM ET despite my calm assurance that it is before 7AM ET. I think I'll note this in the Meta forum.

[Betty Karlson]

5. "liberal" as meant in the theological way

Liberal theology is, in my opinion, Biblical interpretation diluted by human desires (both those of a right-wing and those of a left-wing nature).

My conservatism is the one defined by Edmund Burke, who coined the phrase in the 18th century. He wrote that conservatism is the natural mindset for anyone. That only deprivation and hardship, or extreme greed, can drive us to radical ideologies. He also wrote about power as a poison (an addiction) for anyone having it.

I never quite understood how someone can think conservatism is about limitations only. Because that would be radicalism: sacrificing individuals to some mindless maxim. As my friends here no doubt agree.

The timing of my post is due to the Time Zone I'm in (GMT + 1).

[Critters2]

9. I memorized Heidelberg as a junior high-age confirmand. I still know what my only hope in life and

death is.

[Betty Karlson]

11. I don't know how to get that waving smiley

But imagine one of those waving back at you!

[Critters2]

12. Hey, yeah. Where'd the emoticons go?

Well, the little wavey guy happens by typing a colon, then the word "hi", then another colon.

[supernova]

6. I am both theologically and politically liberal

I am a democratic socialist because I want a well-regulated economy with a solid social safety net including pensions, nominal cost or free education at all levels, and free universal healthcare. Also free or nominal cost childcare.

Theologically I am I guess a post Calvinist. I don't believe in God as a triune God or that the point of Christianity is the resurrection, but rather that we should be bringing about the Kingdom in the world as we live it through The Beatitudes, through service to those who are to ill or too poor to care for themselves. That we should err on the side of kindness when we meet strangers. I believe Christianity if it is to remain relevant has to move on to a theology of liberation and active humanity in the world. This kind of thinking is the life's work of Bishop John Shelby Spong.

[arely staircase]

7. all Christian liberals are progressive people of faith

but not all progressive people of faith are Christian liberals.

[Bucky]

8. The point of distinction is clear.

The DU site owners have set up separate groups for Catholics & Orthodox Christians, Jews, Pagans, and Muslims. I think we can safely conclude that, in the administrators' view, these are not the "faiths of progressive people." To be a progressive person of faith, ergo, one must be Protestant, Buddhist, Hindu, polytheistic, or Bahai. The point is not to lump us all together, but rather to call out those Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim, Pagan, and Jewish believers as a bunch of unenlightened haters and segregate them from decent liberal society.

Either that, or it's just a name.

[Critters2]

10. It is troubling. I travel in Girardian circles, and many of my peers are Catholic

(including Rene' Girard himself). The notion that members of those other groups aren't Progressive People of Faith is odd at best. I suppose one could read two groups...by why should one have to?

[Taverner]

13. Christian Liberals are Progressive People of Faith, however...

Not all progressive people of faith are Christians