Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

4th

(58 posts)
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:18 PM Nov 9

Are you atheist or agnostic? Why not be both?

On the one hand, I take the philosophical position the absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence.
So I'm an atheist.

But while that evidence is sufficient for plausible inference it is not absolute proof.
So I'm an agnostic.

I fully admit I cannot prove that no god exists, but I can to a pretty good job of refutation for the flavors of almighty that believers actually believe in.

But if I need to pick a label, I'll say I'm an atheist.

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

MMBeilis

(361 posts)
3. Twelve. The number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. Less if they're cherubs. If you say....
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:30 PM
Nov 9

.....that's wrong, I'll ask you to "prove it'. And you can try to prove a negative, without much success, just like the atheists.

Eko

(8,492 posts)
13. I dont have to say that's wrong. I have to just say "prove it".
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:24 PM
Nov 9

The onus is on you to prove your statement otherwise its just as valid as me saying I have a unicorn in my back pocket.

dgauss

(1,077 posts)
5. I'd like to give evolution another billion years and see whatever might exist at that point
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:40 PM
Nov 9

comes up with. I bet it would make our big questions seem pretty small, to understate it a bit...

doc03

(36,705 posts)
6. I want to beleive but how can I beleive in
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:41 PM
Nov 9

a god when the people worshiping him are the worst sinners. I don't understand how there are people way smarter than me that beleive. It is like Trump, how can people claim to be Christians and support Trump, a man that is pure evil?

Borogove

(15 posts)
7. I've decided to start calling myself an absurdist.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:51 PM
Nov 9

I think it best describes my view of the world, particularly after last Tuesday.

sorcrow

(512 posts)
21. An apathist?
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:46 AM
Nov 10

Then there was the apathetic agnostic. She didn't know and she didn't care.

Regards,
Sorghum Crow

defacto7

(13,610 posts)
9. I think the term is agnostic atheist anyway.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 07:58 PM
Nov 9

Hard atheism is illogical. I read a book on an unrelated subject written by a professor at Oxford who used the term "unknowable other" to fill the gap in the philosophical equation that forbids the use of an absolute for the existence or nonexistence of a deity. I just say I'm atheist. It's easier.

wysimdnwyg

(2,256 posts)
12. This follows my understanding of the terms
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:04 PM
Nov 9

Atheist: someone who does not believe there is a “god”.
Agnostic: someone whose position is that we don’t, and likely cannot, know if there is a “god”

As only someone who has had specific, in-person, firsthand experience (despite what many, many people would claim, the number of people who fit this description is likely zero), would actually know, we’re ALL agnostic.

As an overly logical/rational person, I consider myself to be atheist. As someone intelligent enough to recognize that I cannot prove anything, I am also agnostic.

Eko

(8,492 posts)
14. Atheist is really the absence of belief in deities
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 08:29 PM
Nov 9

I don't have to prove something doesn't exist to not believe in it. That is absurd. I dont have to prove that the tooth fairy doesn't exist, that Santa doesn't exist, that Bugs Bunny doesn't exist, that The Great Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist, that Zeus doesn't exist. I don't have to do any of that and yet they are not real are they?

Martin Eden

(13,462 posts)
17. Spot-on. That's why I consider myself agnostic
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:15 PM
Nov 9

My existential question has always been:

How is there anything? If our universe started with the Big Bang, where did all that mass and energy come from in the first place?

Humans do not have the perception and intellect to prove an answer to that question.

"God" has always been the easy answer, and religions provide reassurance of eternal life to mortals.

Of one thing I am fairly certain:
Man created God in man's own image. In a universe this vast, we nevertheless anthropomorphize.

The disdain various organized reliigions have earned shed no light on the existential question.

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
18. I'm an apatheist.
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:22 PM
Nov 9

I'm indifferent to whether or not a god or gods exist or don't exist.

To take it a little further, I don't care if there's a god or not, and religion doesn't impact my life in any way (unless I have to attend a wedding/funeral/etc., then I don't have much choice - I'm still indifferent to the religious aspects as long as they're not overt), but I also don't really care if anyone else believes there is, as long as they don't try to force those opinions on me or others, and those opinions do not impact the lives of others.

Some people need to believe in something, for various reasons, which is fine as long as that's as far as it goes. Of course, that's almost never how far it goes.

Buzz cook

(2,586 posts)
19. Gnostic means knowledge
Sat Nov 9, 2024, 09:23 PM
Nov 9

Agnostic means without or lacking knowledge.
You can be an agnostic theist or atheist. It just means you don't know for sure.

There are some gnostic atheists and theist. They depend on arguments for their proof.
Some hard atheists have a persuasive case such as Aron Ra. But it depends on their own definition of a god.
Notice how gnostic and knowledge both start with a silent letter? What's up with that?

czarjak

(12,413 posts)
20. Swear there ain't no Heaven. Pray there ain't no Hell.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:37 AM
Nov 10

You'll never know by living. Only your dying will tell. DCT

GiqueCee

(1,324 posts)
23. Matter and energy...
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:00 PM
Nov 10

... is, was, and always will be. I'll take science over imaginary Sky Daddies every time.

"Religion is the greatest fomenter of hatred and intolerance in the history of humanity." This, or something like it, has been attributed to H.L. Mencken. By all accounts, he was not a very nice person, but he sure was right about this.

I have long maintained that the sleaziest weasel in the cave said to the biggest bully in the cave, "You be government, and I'll be religion, and we'll have 'em by the short curlies for the next fifty thousand years!" We're seeing, in real time, how that's turned out.

For the record, I taught Sunday School 60 years ago, until I was told that I was not allowed to ask questions. That was the deal breaker.

Latest Discussions»Alliance Forums»Atheists & Agnostics»Are you atheist or agnost...