my son is getting sucked into the woo.

[mopinko]

in spite of being my child, he is so soft at heart that he just can't think of people as nuts. he is 22 and a high school drop out mostly sitting on my couch. there is no conspiracy theory to outlandish for him. he was a buddhist for a while, but that wore off. he just throws in with whatever comes along.
my most off the beam neighbor sucked him into a mission to help build a house for an old choctaw chief. with one day's notice, he takes off for south dakota. now, this is really the kind of thing the kid needs to be a part of. i just shut my mouth and lent him my car.
he has been there for a few weeks, has done a few sweat lodges, including having the "honor" of stoking the fire. now he is on his way to a sun dance. 4 days of eating, 4 days of fasting and dancing, followed by a flesh tearing ritual.
i am assured my son will come home a different person.
yes, i suppose he will.
oy.

[ret5hd]

1. move and don't leave a forwarding address.

he's an adult now.

[mopinko]

2. right?

no chance. just started a microfarm, and can't really leave now.

i will say that he is getting a good look at what it is like for most of the people on the planet. he is suddenly grateful.

[pscot]

3. It's all good

Don't lose touch. He'll need you for while yet.

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. A "flesh tearing ritual"?

Isn't that serious assault?

[SwissTony]

5. Flesh tearing?? That is a bit worrying.

That doesn't sound good.

On a more general note, be aware that this is the age is when the hormones have gone quieter (not the same as quiet, by any means!! We've all been there) and the brain is trying to take command. I had a young friend tell me that he was always confused because the last argument he had heard on a particular subject seemed the most convincing - until he heard the next opposing argument. Then he changed his opinion. Again. Until...

He grew out of it.

Expose your son to rational debate. Give him facts. Try to see his POV (even if it's rubbish). Agree with him just so you can inject some subtlety into the argument (YES, I know it's lieing, but it's your kid!! Of course you'd lie. I did. This isn't an abstract debate where you walk away with brownie points). Self harm is a terrible problem. You don't want him to go down that path.

Good luck with your son.

Be strong.

[mopinko]

6. well, we do agree about a lot of things.

i think there are and always have been conspiracies by the powerful. i think all the major assassinations of our time are conspiracies that we will probably never get to the bottom of. but i think we can stop worrying about the illuminati. so, i don't have to lie.

[SwissTony]

8. I'm not talking about the Illuminati

I'm talking about how you talk to your son. It's a personal issue, not an "Illuminati"/"Global World Government"/"Lizard Kings"/whatever issue. If you have to "lie"/"soft soap"/"exaggerate"/"be disingenuous" to stop your son self-harming, I'd do it.

As I said before, be strong.

[mopinko]

17. i don't think he will make a habit of it.

although i do know what a heartbreaking thing that is for your kid to do.

we are slowly learning to disagree without getting upset with each other. he is a tough one, tho, like a porcupine.

[mopinko]

7. you do it to yourself.

of course, you are a little out of your mind by then.
i guess they put some sort of hook in their chest, which is then tied to a tree. then they run away from the tree.
don't ask me.

it's ancient, see, so it's ok.

[Warpy]

10. No, the theory is that you have only yourself to offer

and they don't do the sacrifice by proxy of killing animals or enemies the way some Mexican tribes did.

[Warpy]

9. The Choctaws are an ancient culture

and they've had a lot of experience with earnest youth thinking they can convert to being Injuns. I'd tend to trust them on this one.

Funny, I remember being a little kid and watching Westerns. Either the women were saloon floozies or they were uptight hymn singers and they all had to be poured into corsets and wear high buttoned shoes no matter how hot the weather was. I can clearly remember looking at this shit and telling my mother I'd have gone to live with the Indians. Buckskin let the pink bits breathe, at the very least.

Fortunately good sense prevailed and since I came of age during the 60s, the tribal people were spared my being a groupie.

My best guess is that your son won't be swinging from a pole with thorns through his chest. He'll be relegated to one of the lesser parts of the ceremony, just enough to discourage him from pursuing it farther. It will give him dharma bum bragging rights for the rest of his life, but he'll be on to something new.

[mopinko]

13. yeah, i am sure he is not the first little blue eyed injun.

they are bring quite kind to him, but again, he is a sweetheart and takes things at face value. the idea that they would think he is anything but a friend sent by the fates would not occur to him.
he was a little homesick today, being fathers day. he sure did think that a jade lined accupressure healing massage chair (which a tribe member sells) would be a great father's day gift. $4k. his sibs convinced him they werent pitching in, tho.

[SheilaT]

11. He's 22, has not finished high school, and you're okay

with his mostly sitting on your couch?

If he can't find a job he should be working around the house. He can clean, cook, repair stuff, maybe plant a vegetable garden.

And how are you getting around since you lent him your car? Does the word "ennabler" mean anything to you?

[mopinko]

12. hey, sheila, fuck you.

eta- he has a ged.

[LeftishBrit]

14. You know nothing about his situation (neither does any of us) so please do not judge him

He may be ill, physically or mentally and unable to work; doing voluntary work of some sort; or studying for some course online.

And even if none of these things, it's hardly your business. Sorry to be blunt, but most families, including mine, have suffered from time to time from armchair psychologists passing all sorts of judgements without knowing the facts.

[LeftishBrit]

15. I wouldn't worry about a bit of woo as such; but 'flesh tearing rituals' sound scary

This may be intrusive, and you don't need to answer, but could he have some mental health problems, and would it be desirable for him to at least see a doctor?

If not, it may be just growing up - many of us did or believed weird things in young adulthood.

[mopinko]

16. he has had a tough life, really.

he is one of those boys that really just need to follow some guy around to learn. he never fit in the school system, tho his teachers always loved him, tho he is smart as can be. (he spent exactly one semester in high school, then passed the ged.)
it was brutal to him.

he is flailing around, trying to figure out what to do. he has taken a couple classes in a couple different things, and helps out on the farm some.
we tried a few times in the past to get him into some counseling, but you can't make people go.

all in all i think this is a great experience for him. he really is finding out what a lucky kid he is, seeing how poor some people are, how hard life can be.

but i can promise you the kid is coming home with some magic crystals. and if he has a hole in his chest, it will sure be one of those scars that you tell about your whole life.

[uriel1972]

20. I was like that too in school...

and always searching for something, anything to make sense of the whole sorry mess. However I would have been too cowardly for flesh tearing.

[Puzzledtraveller]

18. wtf is woo?

It annoys me about as much as sarah palins voice to see it, wtf is it?

[uriel1972]

19. Usually refers to the new agey pseudoscience or 'natural' healing methods

Anything which is presented as an authoritative alternative to established medical or scientific practice, with no proof to it's efficacy.
Things like homeopathy, perpetual motion, naturopathy, zero point energy etc.

It's dismissive, yes and a little insulting, but so are many of the claims of it's practitioners.

[mopinko]

21. here is an example-

we got to meet the folks he is staying with, because they came to our area for a 'natural products' show.
they were there to sell their massage chairs and devices.
they have 3 kinds, one of which is lined with pieces of jade, placed to stimulate your chakras, with little inflating pillows designed to give you accupressure. ($5k)
they were also going on about a guy who sold a device to make 'alkaline water', and hoped to carry his products.

the daughter of the guy who they are building a house for insists that their home in ohio is in a 'scientifically proven energy vortex'. they 'birth' crystals whatever that means, to sell in the gift shop.

they assured me that my son would come home a new person, although they think he is a really awesome person now.

so, yeah, woo. the kind of thing you can talk about freely in the skepticism group.

[mopinko]

22. oh boy. he had a dream.

he thinks it means he is supposed to be a medicine man. or a sacred clown.
definitely more qualified for the latter.

[Marrah_G]

23. He might come back a better person

You never know. He might pick up some wisdom out there.

[mopinko]

24. he is a better person for trying to help someone.

he is worse off for having his head filled with nonsense.

[marble falls]

25. Sometimes you get the woo and sometimes the woo gets you. He'll survive. Sometimes you....

only get to smack your forehead. Now you know how your dad felt.