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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 07:23 AM Nov 2015

Thoughts on Thinking

When most of us first learn to meditate, we begin from the premise that we are trying to still our minds. We undertake to stop the flow of thoughts that bombard us ceaselessly, distracting us and making us uncomfortable in a hundred different ways. While the desire to be free from the suffering that accompanies our thinking is understandable, the idea that we can become free of suffering by becoming free of thought - even for a moment - is probably a self-defeating mistake.

Our minds apparently secrete on the order of 50,000 thoughts every day. That's what a human mind does, after all - it thinks. Trying to stop that process would be as futile as trying to stop the pancreas from secreting insulin, and every bit as useful.

The “problem” with thoughts – if there is one – is not with the thoughts themselves. It comes from our reactions to them. It’s as though each thought pulls in its wake a little bundle of emotion, attachment and belief. Those barely-noticed burdens are what actually cause our suffering. However, because they are each carried by a thought, we notice the thoughts and blame them for our discomfort. It is not so. In fact, that misplaced blame is itself a thought, and our reaction to it is a result of our beliefs about thinking.

It is possible to approach the "problem of thinking" from another, perhaps more productive, direction. My meditation practice these days is to simply observe thoughts as they arise, linger and depart, without doing anything in particular about them. A visual metaphor that I learned some years ago has proven to be very helpful in doing this.

In meditation I see myself standing on a street corner, and imagine my thoughts to be cars on the the street. Each one appears, drives up and stops at the corner in front of me. As it sits in front of me I have a choice – I can stand still and watch until it drives away, or I can hop in and let the thought take me for a ride. If I stand there and simply watch as the thought-car drives away, I notice that another one appears immediately, giving me another opportunity to practice “just watching” rather than engaging with them.

Sometimes, though, I succumb to temptation. I become curious about what the thought looks like from the inside, and where it might be going. So I get in, either deliberately or mindlessly, and it takes me away. This is how the unpracticed mind behaves – it’s always hopping in for the ride, since this is how we have been trained to react to thoughts. Fortunately, I have found that after a bit of practice I can now quickly recognize what I’ve done. I can open the door and alight without too much drama, and go back to just calmly watching the thoughts drive by. I also practice not being annoyed with myself for having gone for the ride. I recognize that the annoyance is itself the product of another thought. And so it becomes just another car on the street.

Not being attached to thoughts – or even to the process of thinking itself – gives my mind the freedom to secrete its amazing thought-hormones without giving their potentially toxic emotional baggage a place to land.

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Thoughts on Thinking (Original Post) GliderGuider Nov 2015 OP
Thank You For Sharing cantbeserious Nov 2015 #1
Interesting, psychopaths don't have little bundles of emotions (at least NOT guilt emotions) fasttense Nov 2015 #2
Your thoughts as cars chervilant Nov 2015 #3
Thanks! I'm working on an idea that should turn up here as well as on FB in a week or so. GliderGuider Nov 2015 #4
This is brilliant. mac56 Nov 2015 #5
Of course you may! And though attribution is always good for the ego, I don't insist on it. GliderGuider Nov 2015 #7
A very thoughtful essay... gregcrawford Nov 2015 #6
Very few people make it all the way, as far as I can tell. GliderGuider Nov 2015 #8
The lessons are learned in the journey... gregcrawford Nov 2015 #11
Reflect...one of my favorite koans... N_E_1 for Tennis Nov 2015 #9
It's one of mine as well. Thanks! GliderGuider Nov 2015 #10
Meditation and self hypnosis saidsimplesimon Nov 2015 #12
Similar to my own practice Android3.14 Nov 2015 #13
exactly, and my mindfulness teacher says ellenrr Dec 2015 #26
yes, a nice analogy vlyons Nov 2015 #14
Standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona RobertEarl Nov 2015 #15
Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy... GliderGuider Nov 2015 #16
Thoughts Bombard Us Continually Because We're Wired That Way - NonMetro Nov 2015 #17
Exactly so, IMO GliderGuider Nov 2015 #18
I tend to think of thoughts as helium balloons rapidly rising with a ribbon 1monster Nov 2015 #19
haha, I get entangled too... ellenrr Dec 2015 #25
Very nicely said. You hit the nail on the head. Binkie The Clown Nov 2015 #20
Thank you. I remember early on having moments of total silence. GliderGuider Nov 2015 #21
I finally figured that out when Binkie The Clown Nov 2015 #22
Love that thoughts-as-cars analogy. JudyM Nov 2015 #23
great analogy. nt ellenrr Dec 2015 #24
 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
2. Interesting, psychopaths don't have little bundles of emotions (at least NOT guilt emotions)
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:12 AM
Nov 2015

attached to those thoughts.

They can think anything, do anything and Not feel any sense of guilt. If you removed that sense of guilt, would our thoughts be more enjoyable? Somehow I doubt it because psychopaths are Not the happiest people I've known.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
3. Your thoughts as cars
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:21 AM
Nov 2015

is such an interesting metaphor.

Early in my recovery work, I had a vivid dream wherein I was a vehicle like a car, and all my family was riding in me--on my back. My legs were twisted so that they ended in wheels, as were my arms. I remember the strong perception of "going nowhere," as I rolled along the hills and dales of this bizarre dream. My therapist had been gently prodding me to perceive my "rescue mode," but this dream really helped me understand that I was busy getting everyone else's ducks in a row so that I wouldn't have to even LOOK at mine.

My last foray into meditation was quite productive. I was doing visual meditations, and was gifted with a number of ideas for jewelry. I found it rather fruitless to "stop" my thoughts, and I am thrilled that these meditations resulted in some awesome designs.

I find your posts most interesting, Bodhi, and I sincerely hope you will continue to post herein.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
7. Of course you may! And though attribution is always good for the ego, I don't insist on it.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:17 AM
Nov 2015

Last edited Mon Nov 2, 2015, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

In line with a practice I learned from UG Krishnamurti, I place all my work in the public domain. I explicitly remove any and all copyright or usage restrictions from it. After all, I don't own my thoughts.

If you do credit it, my real name is Paul Chefurka.

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)
6. A very thoughtful essay...
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:06 AM
Nov 2015

...

But seriously, thank you. Gives us all something to think about. Darn! I did it again!

The “problem” with thoughts – if there is one – is not with the thoughts themselves. It comes from our reactions to them."

Following the thread of that last sentence backward to uncover the reasons we react the way we do - and then changing what needs to be changed - is a life-long endeavor. I'm only a year and change away from 70, and I still got a ways to go. But even the most incremental progress in understanding counts, right?

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
8. Very few people make it all the way, as far as I can tell.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:23 AM
Nov 2015

I'm turning 65 in a month, and I've only been at this for a handful of years. I expect to be just about as stuck when I die as I was before I began the journey - but at least I'll be aware that I'm stuck... Or something :-D

The realization that there is no perfect end-state to be achieved, that it's all about falling down and getting back up again, helps me retain compassion for my insurmountable human fallibility.

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)
11. The lessons are learned in the journey...
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:32 AM
Nov 2015

... not at our destination.

As the truckers used to say, "Keep the greasy side down!"

N_E_1 for Tennis

(10,783 posts)
9. Reflect...one of my favorite koans...
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:24 AM
Nov 2015

When asked why he practiced zen, the student said, “Because I intend to become a Buddha.”

His teacher picked up a brick and started polishing it. The student asked “What are you doing?” The teacher replied, “I am trying to make a mirror.”

“How can you make a mirror by polishing a brick?”

“How can you become Buddha by doing zazen? If you understand sitting Zen, you will know that Zen is not about sitting or lying down. If you want to learn sitting Buddha, know that sitting Buddha is without any fixed form. Do not use discrimination in the non-abiding dharma. If you practice sitting as Buddha, you must kill Buddha. If you are attached to the sitting form, you are not yet mastering the essential principle.”

The student heard this admonition and felt as if he had tasted sweet nectar.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
12. Meditation and self hypnosis
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:44 AM
Nov 2015

"It's the thought, only the thought. With your thoughts you tell your mind what to do with your body." Dr. Michael Preston

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
13. Similar to my own practice
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 09:51 AM
Nov 2015

I sit about 20 minutes each day for Zen meditation. I'd let the practice slip for several years but started it up again about five months ago. It is easy to become discouraged if you think the benefits of meditation only come if you can turn off your thinking.

The benefits of meditation come to you by meditating. Sometimes during a session your mind becomes quiet. Other times it doesn't. Either result is just fine.

ellenrr

(3,864 posts)
26. exactly, and my mindfulness teacher says
Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:22 AM
Dec 2015

that the crux of meditation comes in the "bringing back" to the breath.

I used to think that if I have a practice (and who hasn't?) in which it seems like the ntire time I am -
going away, bringing back.. going away, bringing back.

and I would judge this a "bad" session bec. so much thinking/distraction going on.

But as Ram Dass said in his book, it is all Grist for the Mill.
I like the idea that no matter how many times my mind strays, each time I bring it back...
that is the treasure.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
14. yes, a nice analogy
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:03 AM
Nov 2015

another is clouds moving across a clear blue sky. and another is waves in the ocean. Our human minds are concept generators. Ironically, no concepts is another concept also. For me, it's all about point of view. Whatever concepts my mind generates are completely subjective.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
15. Standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:17 AM
Nov 2015

Such a fine sight to see.

We can say that when one is driven, then that one's thoughts are concentrated and controlled and focused on the end of the road and getting from here to there.

Being of sound mine and body (mostly) and having times of not, it is apparent to me that being able to chose which drive I shall take is an exercise of true freedom.

It's a girl, my lord, in a flat bed Ford, slowing down to take a look at me.

You go, Glider.

NonMetro

(631 posts)
17. Thoughts Bombard Us Continually Because We're Wired That Way -
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:38 AM
Nov 2015

As a result of evolution. It's necessary for survival to be able to "take in" everything at once, and because we have been "evolving" for millions of years, our minds automatically filter out things unimportant and focus on the important. But "importance" is also subjective.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
18. Exactly so, IMO
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:49 AM
Nov 2015

Most of our mental machinery operates out of our field of view. We have evolved special-purpose sensory interpretation circuits, selective filtering and prioritizing circuits, decision-making circuitry - all of it operating at a "hardware" level.

However, most of those automatic, unconscious mechanisms are primed or initialized by processes that are more accessible to our consciousness, either directly or indirectly. The outcome of logical thoughts, our emotions, our belief systems, our memories and learning - all that stuff serves to modulate the operation of our non-conscious cranial machinery. The "better" that input is, the more smoothly or effectively the system as a whole will operate.

In my view, the point of meditation is to improve the operation of my consciousness, so that the whole conscious/unconscious construct of the Self doesn't stumble quite as often, or as painfully.

On edit: The reason I look at it this way is that I'm a hard core materialist in my other life. Go figure.

1monster

(11,026 posts)
19. I tend to think of thoughts as helium balloons rapidly rising with a ribbon
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 11:02 AM
Nov 2015

tied to it. My ability to catch and examine the thought balloon depends on the length of the ribbon. Some of those ribbons are extremely short and I can't catch them. Others have such long ribbons that I trip over them and get tangled in them.

ellenrr

(3,864 posts)
25. haha, I get entangled too...
Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:17 AM
Dec 2015

It seems like my mind saves the "most interesting" thoughts for when I'm sitting.
And I get to witness the debate - go with this thought, or let it go....

yes it is all fascinating.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
20. Very nicely said. You hit the nail on the head.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 11:29 AM
Nov 2015

I started meditating in the 1970s. It probably took me 20 years or more to get over the belief that I had to "turn off thought". When I finally caught on to what was going on, and learned to just watch the thoughts come and go, without attachment and without aversion, that meditation began paying rich dividends in my life "off the cushion".
 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
21. Thank you. I remember early on having moments of total silence.
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 11:39 AM
Nov 2015

And thinking they were "the goal", and working so hard to make them come more frequently and last longer. And being so disappointed when they did not.

Turns out that those moments are mainly of value to that fragment of the self that is still grasping: "See? I had one of those moments, just like the Buddha looking at Venus! Look at me, I made it!"

Nothing promotes humility like seeing that mechanism in action...

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
22. I finally figured that out when
Mon Nov 2, 2015, 08:56 PM
Nov 2015

my teacher just shrugged it off without comment when I reported those moments. It finally dawned on me that she was saying, in effect, "those experiences are irrelevant."

JudyM

(29,517 posts)
23. Love that thoughts-as-cars analogy.
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 11:02 PM
Nov 2015

I practice vipassana/insight meditation and just allow whatever comes up to come up, avoiding attachment/aversion and judgment of those thoughts the best (or most consciously) I can. The continual experience of letting thoughts go by helps me quite a bit off the cushion, because I can have this now-familiar mini dialogue to reason with the part of me that instantaneously "jumps in the car"... I am so grateful for those moments of increased awareness, the meta-cognition.

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