What is so impossible about fighting for blue collar jobs AND social justice?

[realmirage]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills... What is the problem with shoring up our support for the blue collar working class, which was our bread and butter vote for decades, and which just cost us the election? WE CAN DO BOTH. In fact, it's not an option - WE MUST DO BOTH. Can't we see that? The Democratic Party has lost all grip on the government. Congress, White House, Supreme Court, state governorships... What we're doing isn't working. And the rust belt just gave us the biggest clue... Do we care about winning? Or is this the end?

[sarisataka]

1. There was a time,

Not so long ago, we did do both. Democrats were the voice of the working class and the promoters of civil rights. I'm not sure why it has become an either/or position.

Even if we write off all of those who voted (R) this election as forever dead to us, I fail to see how disparaging entire regions will give better future results. Over 40 percent of voters didn't show up to vote. What is going to convince those non-votes in the red states to show up and vote for Democrats? I'm don't know but I'm pretty sure labeling all Southerners and Midwesterners under-educated racist children will not get them flocking to the polls in 2018.

[duffyduff]

2. It was long ago. The Civil Rights Act meant we lost the white dudes forever.

There is no getting it back short of another Great Depression.

Frankly, we don't need racist, sexist jerks in our party.

[sarisataka]

9. Who are the

Racist sexist jerks? The entire blue collar workforce? All Southerners? All whites?

If we are not going to even attempt to attract those who chose to not vote this year because they fit into a group deemed 'undesirable' then the Party may as well dissolve. We will have doomed ourselves to at least a generations worth of election losses, barring some major influx of 'approved' voters.

[hueymahl]

128. Uncomfortable truth you point out there

People are still so angry, they prefer to create whole classes of deplorables as an enemy. This is exactly what bigots do.

[mythology]

18. And yet somehow Obama won many of those votes in 2008 and 2012

Obama won 41% of white men in 2008, 35% in 2012 and Clinton won 31% in 2016. So either a bunch of white guys didn't realize Obama was black, or just realized that they are racist, or maybe the simplistic answer that they are all racist jerks isn't accurate.

[bravenak]

27. And the most racist republican out of the last three won the most white male vote percentage of all

Kinda tell us something.

[Kentonio]

49. What does it tell us? They became racists in the last 8 years?

[Hoyt]

52. Tells us they prefer the racist, hateful, warmongering message at this point in time.

[Kentonio]

53. After voting for Obama? Really?

Obama didn't run on purely racial grounds, he ran on hope and change for everyone. The fact that so many people who voted for him later voted for Trump suggests to me that race was not a primary motivation in either of their votes.

[Hoyt]

54. I'm not sure the same people who voted for Obama turned around a voted for Trump.

[Exilednight]

55. this is more accurate, the truth is the Obama coalition

didn't turn out, which included those voters.

This was my fear when we nominated Hillary. Voter turnout was going to be low.

[Garrett78]

57. A reading recommendation:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/why_did_some_white_obama_voters_for_trump.html

[Hoyt]

60. Good article. The 538 quote had me spitting on the screen, but it's probably quite accurate.

"During the 2008 election, FiveThirtyEight relayed an anecdote from the campaign trail: "So a canvasser goes to a woman’s door in Washington, Pennsylvania. Knocks. Woman answers. Knocker asks who she’s planning to vote for. She isn’t sure, has to ask her husband who she’s voting for. Husband is off in another room watching some game. Canvasser hears him yell back, “We’re votin’ for the n***er!” Woman turns back to canvasser, and says brightly and matter of factly: “We’re voting for the n***er.”"


Jesus, this country is a mess.

[bravenak]

64. They always were

[Kentonio]

66. So they were racists when they voted for Obama over McCain?

You sure you've thought this through?

[bravenak]

67. Did they vote for Obama over mccain?

How do you know they even voted in that election?

[Kentonio]

68. We're talking about a swing of 10% in just 8 years.

Where exactly did those racists come from? They couldn't be bothered to come out to vote against Obama, but they did against Clinton?

[bravenak]

69. They could be sexist. Probably are

[Kentonio]

70. So if they're not racist they must be sexist? Ok then...

[bravenak]

71. I still say both. Even a racist can vote for a black man if they think it benfits them personally

Besides, I have met plenty of racists who tell me 'not you, those other blacks are the niggers'

[Kentonio]

72. Right, so based on that anecdote we should just assume they're all sexists and racists.

And given that we're assuming that, we should just write off white males as a target group for the party right? After all they're only 31% of the population and around 99 million people. Oh but 53% of white women voted for Trump too, that must mean half of white women are racists. So we'll write them off too yeah? So that's 31% + 17%.. ok so we've written off 48% of the US electorate, so all we now need to do is make sure the Republicans don't win another 2% from anywhere else, and we're sure to win!

Right?

[bravenak]

74. We know they are racist since they Voted to deport millions of muslims.

I have no idea how you think votin to deport a whole race/religion of people is not racist or xenophobic. I can help you. It is racist tovite to deport millions of fellow citizenbecause they are brown muslims. It is also racist to vote to build a wall. It us also racist to vote for the KKK supported candidate. Sad people are so dumb they think you can vote to deport millions of brown folks but nobody will notice youare racist forwanting todeport millions of brown folks. It was like, his first policy position. Build a wal and deport arab muslims.

We got the working class. Trumps voters made considerably more money. Lol. It was not about jobs! Lolololol!!!!!

[Kentonio]

80. Ok, so if we're writing off all Trump voters..

Then I'm super curious to hear how you expect to win the next election. Please enlighten me.

[bravenak]

81. Get the 3 million surplus votes in swing states this time by screaming about

The planned medicare changes this summer that will thrown granny off a cliff and use everything trump says against him. Theres no hillary for them to pivot back to. No. He is now fully on defense and he hates it.

We got millions more votes. We just need trump fans to be too pissed at him or to ashamed of choosing him to vote in the midterms. We have been playing defense for eight years. Their turn.

What we dont want to do is piss off the millions MORE VOTERS who chose democrats just to snag a few votes from folks willing to deport myrelatives for ten pieces of silver. Bunch of judases

[whathehell]

29. Nonsense...We've had three Democratic presidents since then..

including Clinton and Obama who both competed two terms.

My blue collar Democratic dad hated Reagan and wouldn't have voted Republican for love or money.

[LeftInTX]

42. In the 70s, I had an uneducated, bigoted, white neighbor who hated Nixon

Worked in a factory and I don't think he gave a rats nest about politics. He was drunk most of the time. But he sure hated Nixon and told his kids, "Nixon was an evil, evil man".

[Midwestern Democrat]

48. With the exception of temporarily losing the US Senate for six years in 1980 due to Carter's

landslide defeat, the Democratic Party enjoyed virtually permanent majorities in every category of elective office outside of the presidency (US Senate, US House, Governors, state legislatures) until 1994 - that was 30 years after the Civil Rights Act! I think it's a cop out to say that the party's current disastrous condition is the result of a bill passed over 50 years ago - I think those of us in the South, the Midwest, and the Plains can testify that it used to be a whole lot easier to elect Democrats in the '80s/early '90s than it is today.

[dae]

96. GOP, CoC started Union busting in late 60's early 70's. With

Reagan's election it became priority #1.
Then came wedge issues like the NRA backing GOP over Dems in mid 70's because Dems were after everyone's guns. Or pro-life framed to peel off Catholic votes.
It didn't happen overnight nor will it be corrected very quickly.

[dsc]

124. many of those Democrats were racists

who were voted in year in and year out and others were people with immense senority who brought back bacon for their district.

[Yo_Mama]

90. Plenty of them voted for Obama. All this racist stuff when they didn't vote for a white Dem???

You are free to believe what you want, but white dude racism is not very credible, given the last three elections.

[duffyduff]

8. Always Democrats' fault, right?

These people are willfully stupid. You can't fix them. We don't need the bigot vote.

[Kilgore]

51. Its attitudes like this that dooms us.

[sarisataka]

15. It's not only

a matter of writing off 65 year old lilly-ass-white Bob Johnson because he voted for Trump, we are also going to ignore Bob Jr. Bob Jr didn't vote this year but he's a white male so obviously racist as well. As for little 8 year old Bob lll-fuck him too, we will never need his vote.

We may extended a small branch to Bob lll's sister Betty but we won't put much effort into it. If she isn't smart enough to move out of Wyoming to New York City, she's too brainwashed and/or stupid so we don't want her either.

This all goes for any poc who doesn't support a candidate pulled from the coastal aristocracy as well.

[realmirage]

20. Thank you for this

I'm glad I'm not the only one who can see our current situation clearly, where we went wrong and what needs to be changed to help us win again

[GummyBearz]

56. So what you're saying...

is that holding $33,000 per plate dinners does not connect well with the working class? Interesting

[whathehell]

107. 100. n/ t.

[bravenak]

3. Because those fighting for blue collar treat us as if we are not blue collar and as such do not

account for the concernts of us blue collar voters of color. And because addressing the concerns of minorities loses white blue collar votes.

We actually do win the working class. We simply lose white voters. Because the people they blame for their losses are our base.

[duffyduff]

5. Exactly. Some are shedding tears over white males. It has nothing to do with

the so-called working class or blue collar people. These mostly men haven't voted intelligently for decades. I wrote them off as a waste of time.

Nixon pandered to them by using racist code. They took the bait. There is no getting them back.

[bravenak]

7. I have no idea why people even want them back

[NobodyHere]

10. Because we want Democrats to win elections

[bravenak]

16. Wont win by getting their votes because you lose more votes like mine by trying to pander to them

[okieinpain]

47. 1 n/t.

[AgadorSparticus]

94. 1!

[uponit7771]

100. 1, and the pandering here would be the DNC distancing themselves from people like me.....

... cause that's what its been they respond to

[melman]

24. You would think

But some don't really care about that. They are only interested in getting attention on the internet.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

39. No kidding. More white people voted for Hillary than all non-whites combined.

People acting like PoC is all that's needed to win elections for Democrats might want to review the exit poll percentages and do a little math.

We're all in this together.

[DanTex]

6. We already do both.

Problem is, many "working class whites" care more about having someone to blame than they do about their own economic wellbeing.

[NobodyHere]

11. It isn't just "working class whites" who blame someone else

I think it's fair to say that people of every color and gender on this board will blame Republicans for the recession and the effects on their economic well being.

No need to race-bait.

[DanTex]

12. Actually, yeah, for the most part it is.

Sure, there are some minority voters who vote Republican against their own interests, but not nearly in the numbers that working class whites do.

[whathehell]

31. Thank you.

Tired of the race baiting.

[JTFrog]

58. Not nearly as tired as those of us who are tired of racism and bigotry. nt

[whathehell]

76. No, I'd say we're twice as tired

especially since race baiting is itself a form of racist bigotry...

[bravenak]

77. We are tired of white people calling black folks race baiters for discussing the racism of donald

They look stupid, ignorant and racist themselves when they defend voting to deport milions of arab muslims.

[AgadorSparticus]

89. Let me guess....All Lives Matter, right?

[whathehell]

91. Wrong

I support Black Lives Matter. Sorry for the disappointment.

[AgadorSparticus]

97. Right....of course....

[whathehell]

106. Lol..Nice try

but no cigar.

[LonePirate]

13. Rust Belt and WWC voters want jobs which we cannot promise or guarantee them

They bought into the Racist-in-Chief's lies about brining the jobs back. The only way we can win them back is to offer a similar lie. Do you really want us to lie to voters?

[JHan]

26. Yes , literally..

Lie to voters. A friend of mine who supported Bernie through and through told me - if HRC had just promised BS she couldn't deliver he would have been happier with her as the nominee.

I give up.

[realmirage]

38. How do you know the jobs aren't coming back?

Did you hear that somewhere and it has become gospel? There are ways, and at the very least speaking up and fighting for it will help us win. Abandoning the rust belt is suicide for the democrats. SUICIDE. Don't people see that we are already almost extinct in government?

[LonePirate]

44. The all powerful profit motive dictates that the jobs are not coming back.

Coal is being replaced by natural gas and renewables because they are cheaper and less labor intensive.

Factory jobs are not coming back because automation can do factory work cheaper, faster and usually better than human labor. The Washington Post had an article today on how a robot can weld for $8/hr where a human costs $25/hr and the robot's cost is expected to drop. It is because of the productivity gains from automation that one human worker today produces the same amount of goods as five human workers in 1980. Not only that but today's worker is better educated and trained than any of those five workers.

Yes, we should try to diversify the economies of rust belt states and we should try to find new jobs or training for workers. However, blue collar factory jobs are never coming back to America regardless of what any politician says. Any politician who says those jobs will come back is a liar.

[TheFrenchRazor]

84. if that's the dem platform, get ready to lose some more. nt

[LonePirate]

86. Short of massive new PWA/WPA which Repubs would never pass, what do you suggest?

Do you want us to lie to them?

Clinton's approach was about the most realistic one we could have implemented for them. Anything else is pure fantasy.

[oberliner]

14. Blue collar jobs are gone and are not coming back

Automation is happening whether people want to accept it or not.

[whathehell]

32. So what's the answer?

"tough shit"? "Let them starve"?

[oberliner]

41. Universal basic income

People should at least start talking about that, in my opinion.

[whathehell]

45. Sounds good, but

so totally unrealistic for this country right now....No harm in talking about it though.

[oberliner]

46. Pretending that steel and coal jobs will exist in unrealistic as well

I think Hillary had it right when she urged helping people in those industries to start getting the education and tools they need to transition to other types of jobs.

Sadly, those jobs, too, won't exist in a few decades either.

[Kathy M]

121. Education in what the democratic party stands for , beliefs , positions etc

Wonder if there is an age gap that does not know the difference ....

Maybe fliers , social media , boards ..... and honestly pointing out when republicans are wrong instead of letting them control discussion .

Just some thoughts ..... I am in mid 50's had civics class at least ..... past little while do they still have that class ? I have not known anyone in high school for a while but have talked with some that are in mid to late 20 's they do not seem to know.......

[whathehell]

122. Yep

Education and equal opportunity....You might be right about an age gap and "not knowing the difference". I've known two women in your age range who stated outright that they didn't know the difference between the parties. One told me she didn't vote and even asked me if it was the Democrats who were against abortion. What made this even more shocking is that BOTH of these people had Master's degrees, one working as a psychotherapist.

As to your question on Civics classes, I don't know either. I am in my sixties, and I don't have kids, but I'd heard it was made non-compulsory during Reagan's administration.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. Why not put people to work for that universal basic income?

There's plenty of shit that needs to be done.

[oberliner]

82. Automation is/will be eliminating jobs at an ever increasing rate

I think we will soon reach a point where there are just way way more people than jobs for them to do.

[TheFrenchRazor]

85. whose side are you on??? nt

[AgadorSparticus]

93. Reality?...I don't think there is a side to this. it is just how our world is spinning

Automation will be taking over industries and eliminating many jobs. People just need to be prepared for this.

[napi21]

17. I think you're all blaming the wrong people here. The Con LIED TO THEM promising

to bring their high paying jobs back, and they believed him. That's NOT the Dems fault nor is it Hillary's fault. That's the
Con's fault AND his ability to scam people. I predict they'll come back when they realize they've been taken.

[mythology]

19. Because those blue collar manufacturing jobs aren't going to come back

Automation took those jobs, not trade deals. But making that argument is hard because it requires longer term thinking and some serious social questions. It's easy to do what Trump did and promise he'll bring the jobs back. But I don't see him managing to pull that off because his plan is to cut off trade deals which really haven't had nearly the impact on jobs as people think. Offering job retraining alone doesn't address things like the cultural impact of blue collar jobs to male (particularly white male) identity, of what it means for families, etc.

The question is once it's clear that Trump can't do what he promises, what happens next? Do those people not vote? Do they vote Democratic, third party? Vote for whoever offers the most "populist" message regardless of how viable their promises are?

[whathehell]

33. Making that argument is hard, too, when

it's not your demographic, and you really don't much care.

[AgadorSparticus]

92. Those people are going to get even more resentful. They will end up on the street.

Living in their cars. They will blame everyone but themselves because they dont feel the need to change with the market. If there is ever a sense of entitlement, I see it clearly with this demographic. They feel entitled to their lifestyle, to their jobs. And all they are going to do is get angry, whine, and scapegoat some more and hide behind their whiteness.

It is interesting to see how different groups handle the same scenario but in such different ways. The professional, educated group go and get educated again and do something else. Or they start their own businesses. The noneducated, well, they vote for trump and blame Muslims and Mexicans for their sorry asses.

I have worked with engineers, realtors, etc. who in their midlife, had to do a career change. It was tough as nails but they did it. You know why? Because they had to. They went back to school, got a different degree or went into business for themselves, and eked out a different living altogether that supported their lifestyle. And these folks were of every race and ethnicity.

You know why the rust belt people won't do it? The sad truth is that it is because it is hard and they feel entitled to their white advantage. The angry white folks that people are trying to win over? You can't win them over without getting that stink on yourself. If the democratic party sinks to those lows, it will lose my vote. And others like me.

But, really, it is a losing battle because as you say, it is not a matter of trade. It is automation. Unless the democratic party is going to stop that, you can't make these people happy. They are going to have to learn the hard way when they get jilted at the dance by the gop.

[Lizz612]

21. Intersectionality is hard

and people don't want hard work.

It's not that blue collar white people are racist, but that they don't understand why they need to be anti-racist. They were more concerned with how they felt their economic situation was going than the obvious racism and sexism of Trump.

We're all better off when we're all better off, but not everyone can get over their biases to see that. That's what we need to work on.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

23. If you don't know how you are going to pay the rent/mortgage or buy your next meal

you are too worried about just surviving the day to give a damn about ANYTHING else. Anyone who has been poor knows this. Have you ever been homeless? I have been. Ever been hungry and not been able to get food? I have been. It sounds like you are saying that if people on the verge of not having a roof over their head or food to eat don't count unless they care more about other groups first when they are cold and starving? Do you care about them before everything else? I somehow doubt it.

[Lizz612]

25. That's not what I mean, and you know it.

I'm not asking people in crisis to spend emotional energy on people who are not in crisis, I'm asking people who are hurting to have some empathy for other people who are hurting. Our problems are all intricately tied together, and Trump voters are the ones who couldn't see that.

This isn't the "woe-is-me" olympics, I'm not going to be baited into that.

[Kentonio]

50. That would only make sense if you think they voted against their interests just to hurt others.

They believe the Democratic party has abandoned them, and therefore you are literally asking them to vote for someone elses interests instead of their own. The simple fact that a Trump presidency will hurt them more than a Clinton one would have might seem obvious, but the fact it's not obvious to them means we did a terrible job of explaining what policies the party has.

We need to get better, and we don't improve by blaming the voters. This failure is on us, and we either learn from it and get better, or we lose again in 4 years.

[Lizz612]

88. Yes

the fact it's not obvious to them means we did a terrible job of explaining what policies the party has.

Exactly. We need to explain better, not drop issues of social justice and economic justice for people of color.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

63. A hell of a lot of rural people in this country IS in financial crisis and HAS BEEN for a long time

I come from a rural area and I had to LEAVE because there are NO JOBS. While liberals are devoting damn near all of their energy on social justice they have completely forgotten that economic justice is ALSO part of that. I'm so sick of seeing all of these attacks on rural people. They are not all racists/sexist. They are living paycheck to paycheck and are on the verge of being without a home or a next meal. That is the NORM for many of these people and there are so many sanctimonious assholes on here bashing the hell out of them while having not an ounce of understanding about what their lives are really like! Yes, those voters were selfish and stupid this time around...and you know what...SO has the liberals been for ignoring the needs of these people for so long...and sometimes over things of nowhere near the same significance of making sure rural kids are fed and have a home.

[whathehell]

34. Exactly...Too many here seem to not understand that and/ or not care.

[whathehell]

108. Yes it is..

and in can see the difficulties in the attempts to deal with it all over this board.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

22. Economic Justice IS Social Justice

OJ Simpson is black but because he was wealthy and had an economic advantage he was found not guilty for two murders a great many people are convinced he committed. If he had of been a poor man (no matter the race) he would have been convicted because he would not have been able to pay for good lawyers.

How the bloody hell can ANYONE think that economical justice and opportunity is NOT part of Social Justice? That's just dumb.

[PatrickforO]

28. Support unions, then. And quit supporting 'free' trade.

That'll do it. It would have done it for Clinton.

[whathehell]

35. Yeah, well, support from a democratic president may have helped too.

just sayin'

[whathehell]

36. Yes. Excellent point. n/t

[Nay]

62. Exactly. Democratic office holders seem to have very little interest in even talking

about practical solutions to our very real problems. It's hard to even get anyone to DESCRIBE a problem correctly. As an example, why do we keep pushing educational solutions in the rust belt and Appalachia when there are no jobs in those areas once you are educated?

[PatrickforO]

117. Quite. The answer to that one is an actual economic development strategy.

One that brings in other industry with viable jobs, and then make sure the people have access to the training they need for those jobs. You can train people til you've used up the uttermost farthing, but unless there are jobs, training is useless.

[Nay]

118. Yes, but we are hamstrung by the autonomy of the states; it keeps us from

developing any sort of national economic strategy that would help actual workers in various states. Any Republican-run state would screw with any Dem national policy to do anything, even if it would help the Pub state -- like how they rejected Medicaid expansion. It's a real mess, and it's complicated by the Dems' perplexing wimpiness and lackluster defense of Dem principles. More and more, I think it comes down to needing a Bernie to actually lead. Dems have no real leaders. For example, Lyndon Johnson would have FUCKED YOU UP if you got in his way. He had dirt on everybody and was not afraid to call in favors, twist arms, demand his due, etc. How long has it been since Dems demonstrated their passion this way? LBJ seems like the last one.

[PatrickforO]

119. Indeed.

The party does in fact lack that kind of deep bench strength. We have some young people coming up, though.

[whathehell]

30. Not. a Thing...We must do both.

Last edited Mon Nov 28, 2016, 06:18 AM - Edit history (1)

[Fresh_Start]

37. well one of the big issues with this is that the WHITE blue collar working class

is virulently against anything which can help minorities.

It wasn't the black working class who was against raising the minimum wage, it was the white working class.

[SMC22307]

98. Horseshit. Occupy was black and white. Moral Mondays was black and white.

Don't dispute it, I was there. And We Are The 99% was black and white. All collars, too. And these groups and/or movements all called for raising the minimum wage.

Same with these folks:





Stop pushing the bullshit division, unless you want to keep losing.

[uponit7771]

101. and you know damn well the poster wasn't talking about progressive voices on labor but the

... people who at the least tolerate the "don't give those people shit" attitude that DPutin expouses.

[Garrett78]

40. Democrats already do both, but for tens of millions of people...

...racism, sexism, xenophobia, heterosexism and Christian supremacy take precedence in an increasingly diverse nation.

Clinton spoke at length about economic issues and offered far more substance than Trump. And it was Trump who focused so much attention on "identity politics." Inherent in the "working class whites" narrative is the notion that working class POC don't care about economic issues.

Some DU posters, like Trump supporters, have taken reality and flipped it on its head. How sad.

[uponit7771]

102. 1

[Demsrule86]

43. Do something about unfair trade...get some decent paying jobs back...

You will get the working man/woman's votes ...people of all colors...Trump won because he promised trade reform...he is a liar, but that is what he promised. What have Dems said...well we will re-train you because the jobs are not coming back...jobs have to come back, and we should be the ones to do it...the racist won't come back but who cares...not all white men or women are racist...given them jobs...Daddy always said people vote their pocketbooks mostly.

[uponit7771]

103. Come on people, we already know its not trade deals who off these jobs its automation at the top

... and has been for the last 15 years.

America isn't going to stop automating these jobs away.

I do think it should be retrain, relocate and track the progress of people who've been automated out of job and make the companies who want to take jobs overseas pay into the retraining.

[Demsrule86]

109. the jobs were not automated away...that is a bullshit talking point.

It is not true. But if you want to continue to lose stay with it.

[uponit7771]

110. Yes it is.. (link inside)...

http://fortune.com/2016/11/08/china-automation-jobs/

[TheFrenchRazor]

115. seriously? automation is an issue, but brick and mortar factories have*moved* offshore; you can't de

deny that. so clearly, US corporations believe that there is more money to be made for them when they don't have to bother with pesky US labor or environmental protections. so fine, if they want to move their factories to china, let them sell their products in china, at chinese prices. if they want to sell them in america, there should be a tariff, and that money be used to support american people and corporations who aren't traitors.

[uponit7771]

116. The biggest factor is automation not off shoring, off shoring does hurt ... no doubt but the

... biggest lost of manufacturing jobs in the US comes from robots doing jobs it took many people to do in the past.

[jalan48]

59. It's not impossible at all.

What's impossible is trying to make them separate issues. The two are intertwined.

[Orsino]

61. That would take up valuable fundraising time. n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

73. It's called a dialectical worldview

Conflict is essential, opponents are usually poorly defined.

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. Economic justice is a prerequisite to social justice. The latter is irrelevant without the former.

[uponit7771]

104. The effects of the latter causes the former, mitigate the effects of the latter to get to the former

... without such the actions of economic justice goes to the non 'others' and history has bore this out multiple times

[lumberjack_jeff]

114. a) identity politics is simply an attempt to be selective about economic justice.

i.e. "those white people have it good enough"

b) demonstrably untrue. Some of the poorest counties in the United States are entirely or nearly entirely white.

[muntrv]

78. There was also a time when labor opposed affirmative action.

Nixon used it to divide blacks and labor, 2 key Democratic constituencies.

[TimeChaser]

111. This!

[randome]

79. A bunch of septuagenarians arguing about this is not worth our time or effort.

If we want opinions that matter to the Millennials, it's time to consult Millennial representatives.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[lapucelle]

105. Which septugenarians are you talking about?

People on DU? Trump? Pelosi? Sanders?

As for consulting millennials, they are about to reap what they have sown. Many of them passed on the most progressive platform in generations by staying home or voting third party. They need to learn to listen to the people who told them they were being played. They had a major role in this mess.

[randome]

112. Yes, Millennials had a major role in this mess.

But they were inspired by Obama and not so much by Clinton. That doesn't excuse them but what are we going to do, whine about it and keep letting the GOP win? If we need to bend over backward to get their support again, then let's do that.

The alternative is to hold our breath and hope things turn out differently.

And yes, Pelosi and Schumer and Sanders all need to stand aside and let the next generation take over.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[lapucelle]

113. Third party and no show voters chose to be spoilers rather than heros.

Anyone who feels entitled to entertainment and excitement needs to learn an important lesson. It's not about them; it's about the common good. If you abrogate your duty, don't expect to be taken seriously.

I'm active in local politics, so I sometimes get to sit in on those closed door meetings that we always hear about. Millennials would have been a force to be reckoned with and would have wielded great power in the party if they had shown up on November 8. The same can be said of Sanders, had he been able to deliver his faction in greater numbers on Election Day.

Weaponized votes and negative campaigns, like elections, have consequences. If you can't be counted on, don't expect to be courted.

[TheFrenchRazor]

83. it's a false choice, for sure. nt

[Garrett78]

87. It's a false narrative.

See post #40. And this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512632931

[AgadorSparticus]

95. Automaton is coming and we can't stop the robots.

In a report to Congress this week, White House economists forecast an 83 percent chance that workers earning less than $20 per hour will lose their jobs to robots.

Wage earners who receive up to $40 in hourly pay face a 31 percent chance they'll be replaced by robots, while workers who are paid more than $40 an hour face much lower odds -- about 4 percent -- of losing their jobs to automation.
--Snip --

Robots and other advances in technology are forecast to displace a significant number of blue- and white-collar workers, according to 48 percent of experts surveyed by the Pew Research Center in 2014. They also said that robots and so-called digital agents will displace more jobs than they create by 2025.
--snip--

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_56cdd89ce4b0928f5a6de955/amp

[killbotfactory]

99. Progressive economic policies make big corporate donors nervous. nt

[BainsBane]

120. Nothing, witness Hillary's policy pages

From her website. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

[Dem2]

123. Nothing.

Next...

[Begabig]

125. Resources and will are finite...

You can either go all in for pay and benefits or you can spend some of that energy to get a transgender bathroom.

Nothing wrong with either but at some point something gives.

[Adrahil]

126. Dems HAVE been fighting for blue collar jobs!!

Where have you been? Obama has proposed program after program that would have put millions of people to work. Hillary Clinton proposed the same sorts of things. It's a fucking LIE that Democrats haven;t been fighting for working-class Americans.

[Dustlawyer]

127. They are tired of the corporate corruption of our politicians.

Many are racists too, but many were just sick of being ignored in favor of corporate interests. Since Hillary won the Primary instead of Bernie, the voters had only one populist to choose from. They did not want an Establishment politician no matter who it was.