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portlander23

(2,078 posts)
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 09:24 AM Dec 2016

A Response: My Election Blame List

A Response: My Election Blame List
Chris Weigant
Huffington Post

(3)... Clinton’s entire message could really be boiled down to a rather non-inspirational slogan: “Dream small!” Don’t even dream of a $15-an-hour minimum wage, and maybe I’ll be able to get something like $12 an hour. Maybe. Free college tuition for some ― not for all. Marijuana legalization needs more “study” before I can even make up my mind on whether I support it or not. Don’t break up the big banks, I’ll slap them on the wrist and they’ll fall into line, trust me. Clinton reinforced this message of cautious baby steps every time she debated Bernie Sanders, even ridiculing Sanders for being too wildly unrealistic. Unfortunately for Clinton, this wasn’t what the public was looking for this time around.

(5) Clinton’s hesitancy was most notable in her economic message. Blue-collar voters just didn’t believe her when she promised to “fight every day” for their issues. Her campaign’s choice to not visit states like Wisconsin over attempting to flip states like Arizona just reinforced this problem. They would have done a lot better to have adopted the Bill Clinton slogan: “It’s the economy, stupid” as their central identity, but they didn’t.

(6) The Clinton campaign made a big strategic choice, and it didn’t work. They chose to primarily attempt to scare suburban Republican voters into switching their votes from Trump to Clinton. This is the same sort of triangulation that worked well for her husband back in the 1990s, but no matter how many tens of millions of dollars of Trump fearmongering ads they ran, it had a very limited amount of success. The Clinton campaign came off looking angry and trying to fear-monger, instead of positive and hopeful for the future.

18. THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE

That really should read “...and the entire concept of superdelegates.” Debbie Wasserman Schultz was obviously in the tank for Hillary from the get-go, and the machinations that happened to cut Bernie’s campaign off at the knees got so bad that Debbie had to resign her position the day the Democratic National Convention kicked off. That’s a stunning amount of party disunity to put on display, right at the start of the convention. Plus, Clinton locking up the lion’s share of superdelegates early on just contributed to her air of inevitability, which highlighted their anti-democratic (but apparently not anti-Democratic) nature. It’s time to rethink the whole superdelegate idea, folks.


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A Response: My Election Blame List (Original Post) portlander23 Dec 2016 OP
Nah! I dreamed big with Hillary! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #1
Me too. I voted for a magnificant version of a Hortensis Dec 2016 #22
Me, three. hamsterjill Dec 2016 #35
Bull. So those workers were able to believe billionaire businessman Trump cared about their issues. Hoyt Dec 2016 #2
I guess to Chris Weigant equal pay for equal work isn't an economic priority of his. Starry Messenger Dec 2016 #3
"Her campaigns choice to not visit states like Wisconsin " TwilightZone Dec 2016 #4
Slap on the wrist for big banks coupled with her perceived coziness with them was huge. TRump JudyM Dec 2016 #5
How did her policy amount to a slap on the wrist? BainsBane Dec 2016 #6
What was her message? Exilednight Dec 2016 #7
I asked about policy BainsBane Dec 2016 #10
Hillary would have been one of the best Presidents of all time hueymahl Dec 2016 #16
Worst candidates? BainsBane Dec 2016 #18
It can't be boiled down to three or five words but her plans aren't gibberish: JHan Dec 2016 #24
Then she shouldn't have run if she can't. Exilednight Dec 2016 #29
It wasn't too complicated for me to understand.. JHan Dec 2016 #30
Voters aren't that dumb, they just want it abbreviated. Exilednight Dec 2016 #32
It's not her fault that the media couldn't be bothered to devote time to policy this year.. JHan Dec 2016 #34
A lot of voters have heavy obligations so they rely on what is quickly accessible. TRump knows this. JudyM Dec 2016 #37
Her platform to deal with Wall St excesses is hardly a slap on the wrist.. JHan Dec 2016 #25
"Slap on the wrist" that's the kind of bullshit that kept people at home on Election Day... bettyellen Dec 2016 #27
You're entitled to your opinion, too, of course. JudyM Dec 2016 #31
How are superdelegates to blame? NobodyHere Dec 2016 #8
This isn't about the GE BainsBane Dec 2016 #11
Even in the primaries the superdelegates had no effect NobodyHere Dec 2016 #12
Of course BainsBane Dec 2016 #13
Exactly .. JHan Dec 2016 #26
My list: Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #9
Mine is a bit different BainsBane Dec 2016 #14
What is your point in posting this? George II Dec 2016 #15
Hillary bashing IMHO. The OP did a hit and run job. Been over an hour and no responses. riversedge Dec 2016 #17
Yeah, this guy is known for his "drive by" anti-Democratic OPs. George II Dec 2016 #23
Bullshit. ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #19
Dream Small! lol Dems to Win Dec 2016 #20
Isn't Weigant a self-proclaimed "libertarian"? George II Dec 2016 #21
It is really time to form a united front against Trump RelativelyJones Dec 2016 #28
But this view depends on seeing Clinton's ideas as a ceiling rather than a floor. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #33
The Myth of the All-Powerful Democratic National Committee Gothmog Dec 2016 #36
It shouldn't have even been close, and yes.. mvd Dec 2016 #38
 

Madam45for2923

(7,178 posts)
1. Nah! I dreamed big with Hillary!
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 09:28 AM
Dec 2016

Loved all her ideas and knowing she knew REALLY REALLY KNEW what the f*ck she was talking about and HOW the F*ck to get them done!

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
2. Bull. So those workers were able to believe billionaire businessman Trump cared about their issues.
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 09:39 AM
Dec 2016

Give me a break. Clinton wasn't for $15/hour (which she really was for a big increase, maybe more than $15 in some localities), but "blue collar workers" believed Trump was for that even though he said the minimum wage was too high. Clinton couldn't be trusted on trade, but Trump could since he used Chinese steel for his buildings and had his hats and clothes made overseas.

These kind of articles are junk.

JudyM

(29,517 posts)
5. Slap on the wrist for big banks coupled with her perceived coziness with them was huge. TRump
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 09:55 AM
Dec 2016
claimed he'd change that way of operating and a lot of people who got nailed in '09 liked even the possibility off that challenge to the status quo.

BainsBane

(54,806 posts)
6. How did her policy amount to a slap on the wrist?
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 09:59 AM
Dec 2016

She had a far more detailed plan than Sanders did.
Tell me precisely what about it you found lacking. Be specific.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
7. What was her message?
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 10:05 AM
Dec 2016

Boil it down to three to five words. "Go to my website" can not be the message. No one is going to take that time to read full detailed policies. Obama's was "Main street, not Wall Street".

BainsBane

(54,806 posts)
10. I asked about policy
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 10:19 AM
Dec 2016

If your point is that she overestimated the intelligence of voters, I agree. She's not good at simplistic slogans. She is strong at developing substantive policy that told voters exactly what she planed to do as president, but that required voters to care enough to inform themselves because the broadcast media wasn't going to focus on issues let alone policy. It's clear that many Americans across the political spectrum have no interest in policy and prefer rhetoric that channels their anger. They don't care how something is going to be accomplished. They just want to be told what the want to hear. That was never Clinton's way. She took governance far more seriously than that, and her respect for voters meant she didn't feed them the empty promises others made central to their campaign. The fact is some voters, far too many, want to be pandered to. That is why our country is fucked. As Steven Breyer said, without a population with an understanding of civics, democracy cannot survive. We have a population that not only doesn't understand the separation of powers, they don't want to. They simply want a charismatic figure to fix it for them, which is not possible under our constitution.

hueymahl

(2,647 posts)
16. Hillary would have been one of the best Presidents of all time
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 10:41 AM
Dec 2016

I believe this with 100% of my being.

Too bad she was one of the worst candidates of all time.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
24. It can't be boiled down to three or five words but her plans aren't gibberish:
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 05:02 PM
Dec 2016

Her platform dealt with Wall St aggressively . This got zero coverage

She identified specific problems/solutions and my list isn't comprehensive..

-reform corporate law to target obsession with quarterly profit
-implement profit sharing mechanisms
-impose risk fees to curb excessive behavior (which would hurt big banks)
-hamper consolidation which renders big corporations "too big to fail"
-"high frequency trading" - for the first time our platform proposed a "financial transactions tax" to punish high frequency trading

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
29. Then she shouldn't have run if she can't.
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 05:14 PM
Dec 2016

The sign of true genius is the ability to take complex problems and abbreviate them.

Example: Einstein, with one equation about an inch long when hand written, was able to explain the universe to someone as moronic as me when it comes to physics.

I could boil down her policy to 5 words or less, it's really not that hard to do.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
32. Voters aren't that dumb, they just want it abbreviated.
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 05:22 PM
Dec 2016

Your average voter isn't going to take hours out of their day researching policy positions.


Three to five word and then spell it out in detail.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
34. It's not her fault that the media couldn't be bothered to devote time to policy this year..
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 05:27 PM
Dec 2016

Or are we giving the main networks a pass? The average voter can't even depend on the networks to tell them what is and isn't bullshit anymore.

I hungered for policy discussion, I'm an average voter just like everybody else , but I do try to take an interest beyond simple lazy slogans. It just takes a couple minutes to inquire more deeply about what a candidate is saying, regardless of a media blackout.

JudyM

(29,517 posts)
37. A lot of voters have heavy obligations so they rely on what is quickly accessible. TRump knows this.
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 09:11 PM
Dec 2016

... unfortunately, it's one thing he does well.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
27. "Slap on the wrist" that's the kind of bullshit that kept people at home on Election Day...
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 05:09 PM
Dec 2016

It's a shame you didn't educate yourself better and advocate for he best candidate effectively instead of repeating this nonsense.

BainsBane

(54,806 posts)
11. This isn't about the GE
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 10:21 AM
Dec 2016

It's rehashing the tired excuses of why Bernie isn't responsible for his own defeat in the primary. It has no relevance whatsoever.

 

NobodyHere

(2,810 posts)
12. Even in the primaries the superdelegates had no effect
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 10:23 AM
Dec 2016

Take them out and Hillary would still be the nominee.

BainsBane

(54,806 posts)
14. Mine is a bit different
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 10:31 AM
Dec 2016

1. Voter suppression/ whitelash

2. Comey

3. Misogyny

4. The media

5. The Busters and Bernie's role in creating them.

And misdirected messaging and the failure to campaign in key rust belt states. Hindsight is 20/20 of course. No one blaming Clinton for not campaigning in WI or MI mentioned it at the time.

 

Dems to Win

(2,161 posts)
20. Dream Small! lol
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 01:23 PM
Dec 2016

I'm not sure Hillary ever had any chance to win the GE, given that Bill had signed NAFTA and PNTR-China. The Rust Belt got their revenge on the Clintons for shipping their jobs away.

RelativelyJones

(898 posts)
28. It is really time to form a united front against Trump
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 05:14 PM
Dec 2016

Clinton supporters, Sanders supporters, third-party candidates, non-voters. We had better splash cold water in our faces and form an effective resistance, and fast. This is no time for powerful voices to go silent, whether it is Obama, Clinton, Sanders or anyone with a constituency of any kind. If we get labelled sore losers, who cares. Too much is at stake.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
33. But this view depends on seeing Clinton's ideas as a ceiling rather than a floor.
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 05:23 PM
Dec 2016

I saw them as a foundation upon which to build.

Gothmog

(154,644 posts)
36. The Myth of the All-Powerful Democratic National Committee
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 07:04 PM
Dec 2016

Pushing the crazy claim that the DNC fixed the nomination process hurt the Clinton campaign. That claim was false http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

Easily the most ridiculous argument this year was that the DNC was some sort of monolith that orchestrated the nomination of Hillary Clinton against the will of “the people.” This was immensely popular with the Bernie-or-Busters, those who declared themselves unwilling to vote for Clinton under any circumstances because the Democratic primary had been rigged (and how many of these people laughed when Trump started moaning about election rigging?). The notion that the fix was in was stupid, as were the people who believed it.

Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the party’s nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldn’t figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....

According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And that’s what happened—just a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandists—working through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emails—May 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21—were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the “primaries were rigged” narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didn’t change the outcome.) Two other emails—one from April 24 and May 1—were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, “So much for a traditional presumptive nominee.” Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didn’t know what the DNC’s job actually was—which he didn’t, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.

Bottom line: The “scandalous” DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clinton’s, fed into the misinformation.

In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.

I was a delegate to the national convention and I saw much of this silliness first hand. This election was winnable but the sanders campaign did a great deal of damage that is the subject of valid commentary

mvd

(65,468 posts)
38. It shouldn't have even been close, and yes..
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 10:00 PM
Dec 2016

much of that was caused by running a candidate with high unfavorables and her campaign. I still think though that if Comey didn't go rogue on us and if the media did real journalism that she would have pulled out the 3 states she needed to. Blaming Sanders is really silly IMO. I just have to block that out. He brought in a lot of voters, and the challenge from the left made for a more progressive platform.

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