Speaking out to Ivanka, a hate enabler, is what we all should be doing

[adigal]

This woman supported her Daddy who:

-again wants to put Muslims on registries
- wants to put Latinos in camps and send Dreamers them back to lands they dont even remember - take away healthcare from 20 million people
- grab women's pussies and walk in on naked 15 year old beauty contestants

What don't some of you get about these are not normal times? Trump is not Romney, McCain or even GWBush. He is a Cheney or worse. His daughter Ivanka supported him, enabled him, sits in on meetings with him. We need to make this country so uncomfortabke for them that they will be be like Bush and Cheney, not able to show their faces ever again without harassment. That is what resistance means. What this man did today to Ivanka on that plane is what resistance looks like. People are all pissed abiut Ivanka's children hearing this, while she supports sending other kids to camps. Are you people kiddng me, being upset about this?? We should be lauding this guy. Grow a damn spine!

And stop comparing apples and oranges, asking if we would like if this was dine to Chelsea Clinton. What would they yell at Chelsea? "Your mother wants to expand healthcare?" Yeah. Thats big.,

[Crunchy Frog]

1. Sorry. I can't endorse harrassing her and her family on a plane.

I don't believe it to be an effective form of resistance, and think that it only serves to make our side look bad.

[adigal]

4. Oh, no!!!!! We might LOOK bad!

You are missing the firest for the trees. Bigly.

[Crunchy Frog]

8. Whatevs.

[adigal]

12. Did you hear that "whatever" was voted the most annoying expression this year? Nt

[NobodyHere]

92. whatever

[whathehell]

78. No, we don't want to BE bad..

and you are missing the "forest" for the "firest", whatever that is.

[zonkers]

51. If I was seated in front of her, I would have put my seat all the way back.

[greymattermom]

90. Isn't she 6 feet tall?

and flying coach? What's wrong with this picture?

[True Dough]

2. You're showing no class and no civility

You're advocating the public harassment of people with political views different than your own.

Imagine Barack Obama was on that airplane with Ivanka, Jared and their children. Now imagine Obama behaved towards Ivanka in the same manner as the guy who was escorted off the plane.

Not acceptable, is it? That's right, not even close.

There are legitimate means of expressing opposition. Shouting at people on a jet is not among them. They likely would have feared for their safety had that individual been allowed to remain on board. No need for that.

[adigal]

3. Stop the false equivalences!!!! Obama doesnt want to reeducate gays,

Put Muslims on lists, deport kids who have been here forever. I have no class? Good., i want courage to speak truth to harmful hateful power. Screw your wimpy definition of class.

Pardon my bad manners. Im more concerned abiut people in camps.

[True Dough]

7. There was no false equivalency involved

I was pointing to the level of composure and dignity that the Commander-in-Chief exhibits. He doesn't reduce himself to shouting at political opponents. We should all follow that example.

And the rest of us can be just as vehemently against putting people in camps as you are, but we don't need to resort to "bad manners" to make ourselves heard.

[adigal]

14. Oh, you mean Obama who was just humiliated on a world stage by Trump

On Israel? Or the Obama who didnt tell us about the hacking cause he didnt want to be "partisan"? The Obama who allowed the Republicans to steal our Supreme Court seat without even a whimper?

Obama's lack of fight helped get us Trump. He's a good man, but much like Jimmy Carter - he got easily rolled by the Republicans.

[EffieBlack]

72. There's a difference between being tough and behaving like a childish loud-mouthed fool.

The President does the former without resorting to the latter.

And if you think that Trump has ever "humiliated" - or is even capable of humilating - President Obama, you've bought into the hype that Trump is selling, making you part of the problem.

[BeyondGeography]

5. Trump is a screw-up, keep the focus on him

This job is going to break him. Meantime, no engendering sympathy for the devil. Lay off the wife and kids in public.

[NWCorona]

31. Agreed

[Trust Buster]

6. That would make you no better than a Trump supporter IMO.

[adigal]

10. Thats fine - i expect you to,watch in when they march Muslims to camps, too?

At what point will you take the goves off?

[Trust Buster]

32. Attacking the man's daughter is fools play and will achieve nothing. You must be kidding.

[adigal]

56. She is part of his team!!!! Getting an office in the West Wing!!!!

Why are Democrats such goddamn cowards and apologists???

[Trust Buster]

62. Are her children part of the team too ? Sorry, any way you try to rationalize it, it was

inappropriate.

[whathehell]

79. Thank you..

Threads like this seem to attract those with lots of aggression and little common sense.

[Calista241]

77. So if we harass Ivanka, Muslims won't be put into internment camps.

Are you kidding me with this bullshit justification?

Tump is the bad guy here. We have 63m fellow citizens that voted for him. Harassment isn't going to convince them that Trump is an idiot and that he shouldn't be re-elected.

How about we try actually solving problems? That'll work a lot better than bitching aloud about how someone should be on a private jet.

[phleshdef]

67. Exactly right. We don't need people who think this way on our side. They are a liability.

[oberliner]

9. No we shouldn't

That is, in fact, the exact opposite of what liberal and progressive values are all about.

[adigal]

11. Really? Dems don't speak out to those who support hatred and injustice?

No wonder the Republicans get away with what they get away with.

And as a very liberal progressive, i believe this IS what we do. Its the polite mushy middle who are afraid to say anything that might cause anyone to be unhappy with them.

So when do you think liberals should speak up? Before or after they march your Muslim neighbors off to camps?

[oberliner]

15. No, we allow people traveling with their children on an airplane to do so in peace

Love trumps hate every time.

[adigal]

16. Really? That's about as empty as Make America Great Again

And the poor snowflakes flying to hawaii disturbed by a gay citizen that her Daddy wants to re-educate with electroshock therapy. And other children put in Detainment camps before being sent back to a place they don't even remember.

Have you no sense of justice here? Are liberals really so weak-kneed?

[oberliner]

20. Yes

I think people should be kind to one another, even those we disagree with.

[adigal]

57. The Trumposters will appreciate your kindness when they march your neighbors off

to camps.
I'm sure your Latino and Muslim neighbors will appreciate your kindness as well.

[oberliner]

63. Obama administration kicks off family deportation raids

The Obama administration confirmed Monday that it began a new wave of arrests of Central American immigrant families over the weekend, moving forward with deportations of mothers and children despite an outcry from immigrant rights groups and potential political fallout for Democrats.

Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said in a statement that 121 people were taken into custody in Georgia, Texas and North Carolina in recent days and will soon face deportation.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/obama-family-deportation-raids-217329

America's shameful 'prison camps'

The U.S. government has the largest immigration detention system in the world, and that is nothing to be proud of. The underlying problem with immigration detention is that most detainees are only guilty of being in the U.S. without authorization, which is a civil offense, not a crime.

Yet detainees are treated like criminals, held behind bars and barbed wire, often in remote locations. In fact, in at least one respect, immigration detainees are treated worse than criminals: Criminal defendants have the right to a speedy adjudication and to court-appointed legal counsel. Immigration detainees do not.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/23/opinions/reyes-immigration-detention/

Latinos are already being sent to camps and/or deported under Obama. I would still be courteous to him and his family if we were on the same airplane.

[uponit7771]

68. Bullshit Obama didn't start these raids and the "Obama did it" is a bullshit response

... to immoral acts

[oberliner]

69. OK

My point is that there are things that Obama has done as president that some liberals and progressives object to (drones, for another example). That does not mean that people should be rude to him or his family on an airplane. I don't understand why being courteous to people, even those we disagree with politically, is so controversial.

[Grey Lemercier]

71. I agree with you

[whathehell]

80. Yeah, because failing to harrass Ivanka and her children on planes

the march toward Muslims in camps gets ever closer.

[spin]

13. What bothers me is that we are acting just like what we predicted Trump ...

supporters would when Trump lost the election.

Aren't we supposed to be better than the ultra conservatives who voted for Trump?

[adigal]

17. No, they were going to have a Second Amendment solution

We just said some mean things to a grown woman who enabled her hatemonger Daddy.

[mythology]

39. To be fair to DUers, most of us think the OP is juvenile at best

Most of us believe in rising above this sort of base harassment.

[adigal]

58. Sure, it's always juvenile to soeak out against hatred and bigotry.

Apologists and cowards fear to speak out.

[EffieBlack]

73. Exactly

I am disgusted by what I'm reading on DU lately. If we start behaving like Trump and his supprters in order, ostensibly, to beat Trump and his supporters, what's the point of beating them if we're going to be indistinguishable from the.v

Or are we falling in to the "end justifies the means" bs - which is exactly the excuse that the people on the other side give for their behavior.

[HoneyBadger]

18. Ambushing and harassing a mom in front of her very young children is beyond obnoxious

The kids were probably terrified. Indefensible behavior. This was not a press conference or political event.

[adigal]

25. Sure, we should just be quiet as they march your neighbors to camps

Cause you might upset the children.

[whathehell]

81. Exactly.

The OP probably thinks harnessing one's anger for use in appropriate venues is "selling out".

[Kilgore]

19. Are you serious?

Trump is a fair target, but going after a mom with her young kids present is just rude. It makes no difference to me who is her father.

[adigal]

30. She's not an uninvolved party!!! Have you been paying attention at all???

She helped get him elected. She has been on his transition team. She has sat in on meetings. She wants an office in the West Wing. She IS trump and she doesnt have a right to an opinion-free zone around her. Listen to Michael Moore - we need to speak to them every chance we get. Wake up! This man wants to hurt many of us.

[Kilgore]

38. Uggh!

So we drag ourselves down to the level of scaring little kids.

Can't go there with you.

[True Dough]

21. I'm encouraged to see that the majority of respondents to this thread

believe the OP is on the wrong path.

Apparently he or she believes in the credo, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." At least when it comes to a complete lack of decorum.

I'm glad most of you are above that sort of juvenile/criminal provocation.

[adigal]

26. My credo is: Stand up to evil and don't be a coward

Ivanka is with her Daddy in meetings. She is part of his team. He wants to harm my fellow Americans. Im so glad that you're ok with that, or at least ok enough to not want to, oh heavens!!!!! Say something to her publicly.

Here's YOUR credo: don't be impolite, even when they are marching Muslims into camps, re-educating Jews, and shipping children back to countries they dont even remember. God forbid you upset the pretty blonde lady as she flies to Hawaii.

No wonder they kick our asses. Spineless, and afraid to take a moral stand.

[melman]

40. Talking tough on the internet

is not standing up to evil.

[adigal]

55. My point is I would domthe same if I saw Ivanka

And since I'm in NYC and from NYC, i may see her someday.

You know how GWBush and Cheney cant show their faces anywhere in America. This is how it should be for this whole bunch of Trump snakeoil sakesmen and women.

[LaydeeBug]

70. It *certainly* isn't...

[iluvtennis]

42. +1. Traitor Trump/his family/his cabinet/his supporters want to dole out hate and negativity to...

...black/brown ppl, muslims, etc...but when someone calls them out, they whine. GMAFB. Where were they to come out and say NO to the Trumpite racist shite woman that harassed the two Hispanic ladies in JC Penney on Wednesday. GAH

[mtnsnake]

22. To react like that is very unprofessional and immature

There is a time and place for everything, but that wasn't one of them.

[Madam45for2923]

23. The whole thing was probably a set-up!

Screw these fascists! KKK endorsed!

[adigal]

27. Amen!!!!! Nt

[Fla Dem]

24. Not how I want to fight back. Theses guys were just like the ugly person in the Target

store who harassed the 2 Hispanic women in line in front of her. Her behavior was despicable and deplorable. We are above that.

[adigal]

28. False equivalence. Just stop this.

One woman harassed two people because they were Hispanic.

One man who is half of a gay couple approached a public figure and took her to task for what her Daddy has said and what he is going to do: register Muslims, ship back Dreamers, re-educate gays, start nuclear wars. If she cant take the heat, dont go sit in on Daddy's meetings and have an office in the West Wing.

The woman was hateful. This man called out hatred. See the difference?

We all have an obligation to call out hatred. Ivanka does NOT have a right to be immune from our public opinions. Im glad not everyone is as cowardly as those who wont stand up to evil.

[smirkymonkey]

33. +1000

[iluvtennis]

43. i agree it is our nature to be above that. But in this new fascist age of trump, we gotta get in the

gutter with them. We have to FIGHT back. We cannot play nicey nice dems and let them walk all over us. Enough is enough

[adigal]

60. Agreed. All the polite, nice Democrats here think we are playing by the old rule book

We are going to have a POTUS who is a loose cannon, at best. I know that's scary, which is why people are afraid to think about it. This ivanka woman is part of his team, not like his other daughter who isnt, or Baron, his young child. She deserves all the shit she gets. The guy spoke up to her, most kids hear worse at the ballfield. Gloves off, folks. The old rules dont apply.

[iluvtennis]

65. Right on! nt

[EffieBlack]

74. If we get in the gutter with them, how can anyone tell the difference between us and them?

We don't beat them by becoming them.

[Charles Bukowski]

29. Donald wants to deport millions of

undocumented immigrants splitting up thousands of families in the process...

But don't say anything mean to Ivanka because it might upset her children.

[adigal]

34. Right? The people on this thread think Trump is not serious about this stuff

And even if he is, dont upset her chillddrrreeennnnnnnn!!!!!!!!! God help us all, dont raise your voice near the children!!

[Charles Bukowski]

35. I've seen a few equate Ivanka with Sasha and Malia. FFS!

[adigal]

36. I just responded to that! Is Sasha on the transition team? Is she getting

An office in the West Wing?
How stupid.

[iluvtennis]

44. Preach it! nt

[TrekLuver]

37. I don't think many people walk in to Donald Trump and tell him the real deal and are able to get

away with it. That includes his children.

LOL People are pissed that Ivanka's poor poor sheltered children need to hear this. Yeah well have they heard the shit their dear old grand daddy has said? I'm sorry but if I ever got the chance I would say whatever I want...kids there or not....it's too important.

We don't just have a regular run o the mill Republican asshole on our hands here. And also they still have DONE ABSOLUTELY NOT ONE THING to reach out to the rest of us. NONE OF THEM have even thrown a bone our way. He and his skank family can keep it...I DON'T WANT THEIR OLIVE BRANCH...he can shove that right up his tight ass. So if they get harassment...THEY DESERVE IT. FUCK YOU TRASHPOT SLUT TRUMPS

[iluvtennis]

45. ITA with you nt

[Hamlette]

41. We need to recognize Ivanka is no better than her father. It would do no good to yell at her.

not sure what I would do if I found out my father had done a tiny bit of what Trump has done, I could forgive him a lot but not all of it. I'd like to think I'd walk, separate myself from him. Maybe if you are raised to believe money is a God, it would be hard to give it up but how does she excuse what he's done? I couldn't do it.

So, you have to factor into the equation. The best thing to do is watch them and boycott anyone who sells her stuff.

[Hekate]

46. 1 Ivanka did not have a normal father-daughter childhood. 2 She is codependent in a sick ....

...family structure.

3 Don't expect her to see her family as anything other than normal and successful.

4 She is an adult and making decisions for which she should be held accountable.

5 Public transportation when she is travelling with her small kids is NOT the place for threatening confrontations. How much of a talk with the SS or Daddy's private security guards do you really want to undergo?

6 The OP is clinging to a rather bizarre notion of personal confrontation that is going to lead to nothing but bad legal trouble if she tries it.

[Yurovsky]

47. And on top of that, it is HORRIBLE optics...

and when we have just lost a close election, we don't need to be scaring off swing voters who may well vote Democrat in the midterms or 2020.

If you want to heckle Ivanka at the podium, fine. If you want to protest at functions whaler she is present, fine. If you want to tell her she's the Daughter of Lucifer himself, fine. But screeching at her on a plane in front of her small children while other passengers video record the episode works to Ivanka's (and her dad's) advantage by painting her and her family as the victim.

How damn stupid are we? The last thing we need to be doing is ginning up support for these people, but that's exactly what the guy on the plane did, and what the OP seems to think is smart activism, but in reality is stupid politics. There are far more effective ways of confronting the Trumps while BUILDING support for progressive politics and Democratic politicians.

[adigal]

61. You have no idea of how to fight evil

You can just go tuck your tail between your kegs and hide while resisters actually do resistance.

I bet a mortgage payment that if Muslims were having to register, you wouldnt put you name on that list. You still wouldnt speak out to Ivanka in Public because of "the optics" and her special, sheltered children. How about if they marched Muslim children into camps like we have done in our not so distant history? Would you still worry about optics and upsetting her children? I bet you would.

The difference between us and Republicans is they take a no-holds barred approach and they are fighting to hurt people. Even when we are being hurt, Democrats want to be kind and mannerly and polite. Even when it may be life or death.

[Yurovsky]

66. Please...you sound like the average internet tough guy...

I've actually been hauled off to jail for fighting what I believe in, but I've always aligned myself with others who hold the moral high ground. If you want to sink to the level of some of the vermin on the alt-right, have at it. It'll be a losing effort, I guarantee you, as they will beat you with experience at being a POS.

[EffieBlack]

75. Actually, people who REALLY know how to fight evil and do it every day, don't do it with

petty public displays of anger and bitterness. They strategize and fight smart. They don't yell at people on airplanes.

They think three steps ahead. They consider and plan impacts and outcomes and then strategically target actions to achieve them. They don't yell at people on airplanes.

What were the impacts and outcomes of that action? Did he cause Ivana Trump to rethink her position on anything ot to even consider his point of view? Did he provoke anyone on the plane to reconsider their support for Donald Trump? Did a single substantive thing change as a result? No. He just yelled at someone on an airplane and then got his ass thrown off.

[Yurovsky]

85. Exactly... it's an example of ZERO emotional intelligence...

Might have felt good for a minute or two, but actually hurt far more than it helped.

The last thing we need is to be making the Trumps sympathetic characters.

[Jake Stern]

84. Yep

It's a fantastic way to earn her and, by extension, him sympathy. Do people supporting the guy really think this will win converts to the cause?

Battle Trump politically not by lashing out at his people.

[Madam45for2923]

48. woah Donald just go everywhere with your grandkids! That will stop the criticisms...

...and proceed with your Nazi and or Putin plans!

Awesome idea eh!

Ivanka knew what she was doing.

[libtodeath]

49. I hope her life is as miserable as her and her piece of shit daddy will make it for all of us.

[spinbaby]

50. I just saw the video of this

Was Ivanka flying coach? Really?

[DawgHouse]

64. Weird, huh?

[treestar]

52. Remember her saying women sexually harassed on

the job should just quit and get another job?

The right wing's "tough guy" approach means they should be able to handle it.

As to her kids, doesn't she want them to learn to be tough as she advocates? That was an example she could use to tell them to be tough and not be affected by someone talking mean.

[guillaumeb]

53. Excellent points.

But she is rich and rich people have different rules.

[crazycatlady]

88. I thought one of her brothers said that

[treestar]

91. either one, at any rate they are

taking up the right wing mantra that people should be tough and learn to deal with it without needing a safe space, etc. But then as hypocrites they "whine" (the word they always use for us not wanting to hear certain things) if they are referred to in any generalized manner: racist, sexist, etc. But their stance towards us is that they are so tough that they don't cry about these things.

Anyone who would say respond to sexual harassment by leaving and getting another job, because you are so strong and tough (or to not complain about it) is taking up that stance.

[Throd 2.0]

54. I don't think the "ranting asshole" strategy will pay dividends in 2020.

Also, carrying so much anger all the time wouldn't be personally healthy anyway.

[renate]

59. I'm probably hopelessly naive, but Ivanka might be the only voice of sanity around Trump

From what little I've seen of her away from the campaign, she seems okay. Of course she doesn't understand what life is like for people living paycheck to paycheck, but most people don't understand what the lives of others are like. If she is willing to have an open mind and listen to a variety of opinions, she could be a valuable ally--maybe the only person around Trump who can influence him for the better. For example, I would really be surprised if she were homophobic.

I'm happy to keep an open mind where she's concerned. So far, she hasn't said anything that I'm aware of that's nasty or racist or anything like that. She might be staying close to him and sitting in on meetings, etc, because she knows her country needs her influence. Or maybe not... but I'm willing to wait and see.

[democratisphere]

76. I truly believe Ivanka is the ONLY person on earth that

might be able to keep her father contained and under control. While you might call her an enabler, I think she actually is a stabilizer.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

82. I would consider that to be bullying behavior

Not acceptable.

[EffieBlack]

83. You DO realize that many on the right felt exactly this way about President Obama - and that's how

they justified their unprecedented rudeness to him - something we thought was completely out of line.

[HoneyBadger]

86. You do not bring the kids into this

In fact, Obama was warning Trump not to go after Michelle, who honestly became as big a party voice after the convention as Hillary was.

[jack_krass]

87. This type of idiotic stunt will do nothing useful and will earn her sympathy from the non-political

[aikoaiko]

89. At the right time and place.