General Discussion

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)

136. "bound and determined to take offense" --uh, no.

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 12:18 AM

Feb 2012

I'm just pointing out that pap smears are just as much invasive medical procedures as abortions. However, I can't remember anyone using that term to describe pap smears here. Why is that? Is it perhaps because pap smears are accepted as medical interventions and abortions are not?

The abortion debate makes many uncomfortable and the language used displays that discomfort. It's easier to describe abortion in terms that make it sound scarier than it is to confront the reality that personal aversion to abortion makes it difficult for some people to accept the pro-choice label even though they want to allow others to make choices that they believe they would not make for themselves. Calling them "invasive medical procedures" rather than just medical procedures, and wishing for them to be rare IMHO are displays of that discomfort.

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OK, I’m coming out of the closet. I’m pro-life. [View all] Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Feb 2012 #1

pity that the ones who generally use that term don't seem to understand all it means niyad Feb 2012 #2

I, too, am pro-life and... Spazito Feb 2012 #3

Thanks for posting this. CBHagman Feb 2012 #4

Troll!!!1111!!!111! Fearless Feb 2012 #5

Well said. Me, too. nt Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #6

Excellent - me too. nt TBF Feb 2012 #7

Me, too! Well said! hedgehog Feb 2012 #8

Actually, I don't think you are. yewberry Feb 2012 #9

I think the point is that the phrase "pro-life" is a misnomer. Orangepeel Feb 2012 #13

I'm by no means adamantly opposed to abortion. Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #31

Oh, I didn't mean you were Orangepeel Feb 2012 #40

Well, you gave me an opening for a nice little rant there, so thanks. Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #41

Happy to be of service Orangepeel Feb 2012 #50

Right on! airplaneman Feb 2012 #44

Indeed pauljulian Feb 2012 #73

They are pro-punishment for wicked girls BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2012 #46

The other aspect of this lies in exceptions caraher Feb 2012 #48

Wow, yeah. Nice point. Another aspect I hadn't thought of. Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #51

Wish I could rec this post as well SmileyRose Feb 2012 #54

Jackpine, you are the best.. prairierose Feb 2012 #76

If women were given all the resources they need to control their fertility, they would be rare, Cleita Feb 2012 #10

How about men also doing their share judy Feb 2012 #12

Of course and they should have all access to what they need to. Cleita Feb 2012 #38

"I don't see anyone campaigning against condoms or vasectomies." Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #42

There have been politics of this sort among special interest groups, Cleita Feb 2012 #43

It would be nice... moriah Feb 2012 #147

Absolutely, Cleita. Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #33

No no no, you are not "pro life"... judy Feb 2012 #11

Seriously, I got no problem with this addition: Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #15

So am I. I'm pro-life AND pro-choice. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #14

I am 100% pro-choice. n/t RebelOne Feb 2012 #49

You've got to admire the "pro-lifers" backscatter712 Feb 2012 #16

I'm also against abortion. Pab Sungenis Feb 2012 #17

Pab, did you read the OP or just the subject line? Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #18

how about keeping your own counsel? TorchTheWitch Feb 2012 #21

If they asked for my opinion Pab Sungenis Feb 2012 #63

So, if I consider giving advice, when asked for it, Confusious Feb 2012 #67

You mean a pragmatist. WingDinger Feb 2012 #19

"Rare" bothers me. LeftyMom Feb 2012 #20

the usage of "rare" implies to me that others stipulate who can and who can't TorchTheWitch Feb 2012 #22

We want women to feel safe and secure enough to carry to term if they so wish. If they feel they alfredo Feb 2012 #24

This was the basis of Roe vs Wade Major Nikon Feb 2012 #27

I didn't read it that way SmileyRose Feb 2012 #56

Exactly... SidDithers Feb 2012 #62

The "rare" part for me... moriah Feb 2012 #148

Isn't effective contraception better than abortions? Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #28

Unintended pregnancies *aren't* rare. LeftyMom Feb 2012 #53

But we want them to be. So we want effective contraception. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #55

"Rare" is a relative term. Sex education, wider availability of BC, Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #29

I think we hope all invasive medical procedures should be rare ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2012 #69

Yes. That's the point of "rare." Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #70

Pap smears are invasive medical procedures. Should they be rare also? Gormy Cuss Feb 2012 #83

Should they be rare also? How about the need for them be rare, instead? pauljulian Feb 2012 #131

"bound and determined to take offense" --uh, no. Gormy Cuss Feb 2012 #136

No. Pap smears are not as invasive as abortions. Sorry but wrong. uppityperson Feb 2012 #137

No one said that both procedures were the same level of invasiveness. Gormy Cuss Feb 2012 #139

Being a health care provider, and having worked with reproductive health, not sure what you mean. uppityperson Feb 2012 #141

I meant very early, pharmaceutical abortions. Gormy Cuss Feb 2012 #142

RU486? Thank you for clarifying. Seems were differ on what terms mean for "invasive" but are uppityperson Feb 2012 #143

"rare" is a pandering weasel word iverglas Feb 2012 #89

YEAH. Ted Kennedy was such a pandering weasel. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #122

okay iverglas Feb 2012 #123

My position on abortion is identical to Ted Kennedy's (nt) Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #124

It seems some are talking "color" and others are talking "visible light frequency" pauljulian Feb 2012 #134

It's only pandering and weasling to those who wish to see it as such. pauljulian Feb 2012 #133

Well said! alfredo Feb 2012 #23

Insightful post; thanks, Jackpine R. spooky3 Feb 2012 #25

I have always been pro life. NOLALady Feb 2012 #26

I'll step out of the closet as well Tsiyu Feb 2012 #30

I hope you weren't hoping to provoke a battle over this. Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #36

See, I've never understood why Dems let religious nuts steal the term "pro life" tularetom Feb 2012 #32

I kinda prefer the term Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #37

Because we're totally dumb about things like that. Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #39

Excellent! Tennessee Gal Feb 2012 #34

Yep, I'm pro-life as well... MellowDem Feb 2012 #35

I think the issue is complicated. Vattel Feb 2012 #45

What I really agree with is the fact that you are wrestling with this issue Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #47

I tend to agree. Vattel Feb 2012 #64

I wish more femrap Feb 2012 #52

When ever I encounter a "pro-lifer" I always say, "I'm also pro-life. I'm also pro-choice." tpsbmam Feb 2012 #57

I am pro-life, especially bacterial and fungal life. Humans? Whatever. saras Feb 2012 #58

"I think they need to be safe, legal, and I'm not worried one bit about the quantity." Exactly uppityperson Feb 2012 #66

Pro-life ZombieHorde Feb 2012 #59

I believe abortions should be safe and legal... SidDithers Feb 2012 #60

I would prefer that my daughters use contraception than get pregnant and have an abortion. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #65

Thanks for saying this for me. Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #68

And for me, also pauljulian Feb 2012 #74

"it is an invasive medical procedure ..." iverglas Feb 2012 #92

Did you really intend to take offense at my statement???!!!! WTF???!!! pauljulian Feb 2012 #96

I'd prefer that my daughters & sons rarely had sex.Unless they're intending to get pregnant, no sex. Gormy Cuss Feb 2012 #85

But contraception is not pushed enough in schools. Jennicut Feb 2012 #86

I agree. And that will help make abortions rarer (nt) Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #88

why do you think you can say things like this? iverglas Feb 2012 #90

I want contraception to be readily available Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #94

re: readily available pauljulian Feb 2012 #99

Baffling to see people objecting to "safe, legal and rare". Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #102

if you're baffled, you just aren't trying iverglas Feb 2012 #104

I am in the "fuck rare" crowd. PeaceNikki Feb 2012 #114

Do you think that contraception should be readily available and widely used, Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #115

Of course I do and the two are unrelated. You see, 'rare' is a relative term that is full of shit. PeaceNikki Feb 2012 #116

"Of course I do" means that you agree that abortions should be rare. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #118

I say 'fuck rare' to thumb my nose at the idea of some asshole judging what's 'rare'... or not. PeaceNikki Feb 2012 #119

"Assholes" like Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy? Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #120

Wow, that's a leap. PeaceNikki Feb 2012 #121

It's OK that you disagree with Ted Kennedy on this issue. Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #129

Read my other replies to you in this thread. PeaceNikki Feb 2012 #130

Oh, also, the Democratic Party dropped that seriously antiquated language in 2008 PeaceNikki Feb 2012 #125

hurray, I did not know that iverglas Feb 2012 #127

What if we stopped focusing on the number of abortions and instead focused on the women themselves? PeaceNikki Feb 2012 #126

will you do a premise check there? iverglas Feb 2012 #117

This ^ PeaceNikki Feb 2012 #128

yes, since you ask: you are the incivil one iverglas Feb 2012 #100

This is one of those hot-button topics pauljulian Feb 2012 #97

call me a "raging absolutist" iverglas Feb 2012 #103

re: safe legal and rare pauljulian Feb 2012 #105

actually iverglas Feb 2012 #106

Nope, not over to me at all pauljulian Feb 2012 #107

I knew that wasn't going to be clear. iverglas Feb 2012 #108

Not demanding, not demonizing pauljulian Feb 2012 #109

I gotta say pauljulian Feb 2012 #111

well, like this iverglas Feb 2012 #132

re: well, like this pauljulian Feb 2012 #135

Contraception isn't magic. LeftyMom Feb 2012 #95

Re: Contraception isn't magic. pauljulian Feb 2012 #98

Agree 100%. PeaceNikki Feb 2012 #112

At the very heart of the abortion issue who "pays" for the operation. It's couched in terms of nanabugg Feb 2012 #61

I would say about 99% of pro-life people believe in choice LynneSin Feb 2012 #71

rare = somebody else's choice piratefish08 Feb 2012 #72

No. "rare" = contraception is readily available and widely used, Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #75

Not the same at all pauljulian Feb 2012 #77

Huh? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2012 #93

"Pro-life" is now a political term that means anti-Roe v. Wade ehrnst Feb 2012 #78

Then it is well past the time to take the language back SaintPete Feb 2012 #80

I wish it was that easy. ehrnst Feb 2012 #84

That is an excellent description w8liftinglady Feb 2012 #79

Safe, legal and rare. KamaAina Feb 2012 #81

I share the same sentiment Puzzledtraveller Feb 2012 #82

Oh, I'm sure there are a couple of lunatics somewhere that are pauljulian Feb 2012 #101

Actually you're pro-choice, from the description you just gave. Arkana Feb 2012 #87

I'm pro life but believe others should have a choice. gregtownsand Feb 2012 #91

That's not true. You are pro-choice or anti-choice. PeaceNikki Feb 2012 #110

When addressing anti-choice people, I usually put "pro-life" in quotes & prefix it with "so-called" 2ndAmForComputers Feb 2012 #138

I am also pro-life and pro-choice. n/t renie408 Feb 2012 #113

Abortion Robbins Feb 2012 #140

I'm sorry, but Ship of Fools Feb 2012 #144

I had no idea that little word would get me into so much trouble. Jackpine Radical Feb 2012 #145

Aha. That works for me, too ... Ship of Fools Feb 2012 #146

Do you support abortions for the following: Dawson Leery Mar 2012 #149

Of course. I support a woman's right to terminate any pregnancy. Jackpine Radical Mar 2012 #150