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riderinthestorm

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115. Have you seen the proof that the NSA is surveilling American citizens?

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 04:29 PM

Jul 2014

Especially certain Muslim ones?

Have you seen the proof that the NSA is collecting and storing information on thousands of American citizens?

We could play this game all day. "I" haven't seen those documents that support these allegations. But Der Spiegel has. So has the NYT and the Guardian. Or they wouldn't be publishing these stories. The Pulitzer Prize committee wouldn't be giving out awards for outstanding investigative journalism if they weren't convinced of the validity of these reports.

Face it, no matter what Snowden says, his detractors call it a lie.

I believe you are on the wrong side of history on this. Demonstrably so unless all these other folks are in on Snowden's "lies". Before Snowden there was Binney, Drake, Wiebe, etc . Add all of their information, their leaks, the reports from Der Spiegel, NYT, the Guardian etc etc etc and the preponderance of evidence is inescapable no matter now much you hate Snowden and HIS leaks.

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Snowden: NSA employees routinely pass around intercepted nude photos [View all] jayfish Jul 2014 OP

How are DU's NSA-defenders going to spin this one? Dopers_Greed Jul 2014 #1

It might take a while;... jayfish Jul 2014 #2

"Snowden violated people's privacy by looking at their nude bodies" n2doc Jul 2014 #4

we don't need to spin he is a tool and a fool snooper2 Jul 2014 #18

Actually they do enlist them right out of High School fasttense Jul 2014 #24

I Can't Believe billhicks76 Jul 2014 #43

Hmmm... the fact is you don't what NSA does in the vast majority of cases. They serve a very... Adrahil Jul 2014 #79

Whatever billhicks76 Jul 2014 #137

Well, sort of. olddad56 Jul 2014 #179

Like 18 Year Olds billhicks76 Jul 2014 #41

OK, Let me give it a try.... PosterChild Jul 2014 #46

You can't do all those things but... JackRiddler Jul 2014 #52

Sorry, but... PosterChild Jul 2014 #135

Who is this "We"? JackRiddler Jul 2014 #142

By "We" I mean "We the People"... PosterChild Jul 2014 #144

You don't speak for "We the People," sir. JackRiddler Jul 2014 #145

I didn't say... PosterChild Jul 2014 #146

Most Americans Now Oppose NSA Program JackRiddler Jul 2014 #149

Polls are very important... PosterChild Jul 2014 #152

Your argument can be used to justify anything... JackRiddler Jul 2014 #153

I'm not "blaming the people"... PosterChild Jul 2014 #170

Very good, at last. JackRiddler Jul 2014 #173

Yes, law enforcement typically 'justifies' itself by doing the job they were established to do. randome Jul 2014 #178

CIA has nothing to do with law enforcement. JackRiddler Jul 2014 #180

Sorry, but I aways speak... PosterChild Jul 2014 #190

It is not "our" nation, sir. JackRiddler Jul 2014 #191

I didn't say anything about... PosterChild Jul 2014 #211

Basically the neo-con justification for U.S. imperialism. JackRiddler Jul 2014 #212

The difference being Joe Turner Jul 2014 #54

NSA spying... PosterChild Jul 2014 #136

70's anecdotes aside...... DeSwiss Jul 2014 #63

Proof of what? PosterChild Jul 2014 #134

They may be following internet sex rings or pedophiles. kelliekat44 Jul 2014 #70

Snowden is far more credible than the NSA. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #99

+1000 LiberalLovinLug Jul 2014 #110

Why? Where did he work? What did he do? Where is he now?l nt kelliekat44 Jul 2014 #155

Have you read Greenwald's book, No Place to Hide? JDPriestly Jul 2014 #177

He was an IT guy AnnieBW Jul 2014 #207

Don't EVEN try that one Aerows Jul 2014 #120

That's not their job. JoeyT Jul 2014 #182

You believe it just because Eddie said it? treestar Jul 2014 #157

Simple tymorial Jul 2014 #174

Here's what is simple ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #181

"...his comments that SS recipients are parasites...." candelista Jul 2014 #203

Snowden posted regularly ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #204

Obviously he changed his mind... candelista Jul 2014 #205

Not really, people always have the "It can't happen to me" mentality cbdo2007 Jul 2014 #3

"It's easy to believe that someone's gonna light the fuse jayfish Jul 2014 #5

There it is... Dopers_Greed Jul 2014 #11

But if you're a politician and your kid does ... Babel_17 Jul 2014 #16

Snowden : "young men working for NSA behave in manner to be expected of a hedgehog Jul 2014 #6

Still amazed at how naive some are Cryptoad Jul 2014 #7

Ah, the old "There's no expectation of privacy on the Internet, so why worry?" argument... klook Jul 2014 #10

Why they are looking at them has nothing to do with the Fact,, Cryptoad Jul 2014 #13

So can I read your emails then? zeemike Jul 2014 #14

Well I am surely not going to pretend Cryptoad Jul 2014 #17

Remember how they used to have to get a warrant klook Jul 2014 #19

Well it was rhetorical zeemike Jul 2014 #21

talk about rolling over LiberalLovinLug Jul 2014 #112

My house is not Pulic domain Cryptoad Jul 2014 #116

Its the next step LiberalLovinLug Jul 2014 #168

I call this pathetic defense, "Third Way blase," woo me with science Jul 2014 #28

And as usual you are right, and right on top of it. zeemike Jul 2014 #30

That thread was "mind blowing," indeed. woo me with science Jul 2014 #36

Aptly named! Pholus Jul 2014 #37

Stupid Argument billhicks76 Jul 2014 #44

Mail Boxes are not public domain,,,,,,,, Cryptoad Jul 2014 #55

What!?! billhicks76 Jul 2014 #68

You are the one who brought up the subject of Mailboxes comparisons ,,,,, Cryptoad Jul 2014 #88

So then it's A-OK if the postal carrier opens your mail and reads it? Sirveri Jul 2014 #98

Seriously Cryptoad Jul 2014 #117

I don't think they do, the SCOTUS confirmed that they do. Sirveri Jul 2014 #121

You need to source your comment Cryptoad Jul 2014 #126

Your email, I was talking about your email, but I'm sure you knew that. Sirveri Jul 2014 #133

Dont Waste Your Time With This One billhicks76 Jul 2014 #139

Wrong billhicks76 Jul 2014 #138

Nor are e-mail boxes that not only have names on them but JDPriestly Jul 2014 #109

"email boxes" Cryptoad Jul 2014 #118

Tell that to the pharmaceutical companies, the airplane JDPriestly Jul 2014 #106

and all those thingys you Cryptoad Jul 2014 #119

While I don't approve of unprofessional, juvenile behavior of analysts... Adrahil Jul 2014 #80

True that.. Cryptoad Jul 2014 #89

A password proves, in my opinion, the intention that the information JDPriestly Jul 2014 #113

you are talking Cryptoad Jul 2014 #123

You have tremendous patience. woo me with science Jul 2014 #154

Do you think that abusing their position of trust and authority is okay? neverforget Jul 2014 #31

Who Are You? billhicks76 Jul 2014 #40

The slashed GOP may very well be an accurate representation of their sentiment. Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #49

I agree billhicks76 Jul 2014 #66

Is this a Purity Test? Cryptoad Jul 2014 #129

Nope billhicks76 Jul 2014 #140

test me to stonecutter357 Jul 2014 #194

Is this suppose to be an insult? Cryptoad Jul 2014 #127

Internet is not a public domain. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #101

Manage a 45,000 node network Aerows Jul 2014 #122

I never claimed it was ethical Cryptoad Jul 2014 #128

Excusing it Aerows Jul 2014 #130

I was not Cryptoad Jul 2014 #131

And why would the NSA have nude photos? treestar Jul 2014 #158

Do you Reckon,,,, Cryptoad Jul 2014 #193

. stonecutter357 Jul 2014 #195

Steganography - Financing Other Activities AnnieBW Jul 2014 #206

Is this really what you want from your government? raindaddy Jul 2014 #192

I want my Gubermint Cryptoad Jul 2014 #196

Whether our Gov... Is violating the Constitution is a different argument. raindaddy Jul 2014 #197

your argument is circular Cryptoad Jul 2014 #199

Of course they can be separate arguments raindaddy Jul 2014 #201

Gee, who could have predicted this? nt bemildred Jul 2014 #8

Well of course they do. bluedigger Jul 2014 #9

I guess all the hot girls who took selfies with their smart phones OnyxCollie Jul 2014 #12

Sarcasm aside, no, most of them didn't. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #29

Former girlfriend ... plus her current boyfriend? Babel_17 Jul 2014 #15

Yep and I would be more worried about them. zeemike Jul 2014 #32

Talk about a mind-boggler..... Doc Holliday Jul 2014 #105

I think he's full of shit. n/t lamp_shade Jul 2014 #20

Absolutely, the NSA has policies to ensure this crap doesn't happen mindwalker_i Jul 2014 #27

And we have a secret court to protect our secrets. Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #50

Yeah, isn't that great? mindwalker_i Jul 2014 #53

...but it is only the meta-data. bvar22 Jul 2014 #22

Prediction 90-percent Jul 2014 #23

I doubt you would ever see that released to the public. zeemike Jul 2014 #34

Any naked pictures of Dianne Feinstein in a sexually compromising position..... DeSwiss Jul 2014 #67

Imagine what the bosses pass around. Octafish Jul 2014 #25

The floating castles remind me of that old Star Trek episode, "The Cloud Minders" aint_no_life_nowhere Jul 2014 #62

I identified with the Troglytes in that one. Octafish Jul 2014 #90

Serve 'em right if they see one of me. riqster Jul 2014 #26

Ha ha ha. Government abuse of power against Americans is such a laugh riot. woo me with science Jul 2014 #35

Gallows humor. Look it up. riqster Jul 2014 #39

Well, if they haul you in on terrorism charges, we'll know why. winter is coming Jul 2014 #65

Insofar as I am aware, no such photos exist. riqster Jul 2014 #82

Coming soon: NSA employees create next "October Surprise" Pholus Jul 2014 #33

Now You Are Thinking billhicks76 Jul 2014 #45

You mean the NSA might collect info on Democratic politicians OnyxCollie Jul 2014 #48

What could he do that couldn't be undone EXCEPT... Pholus Jul 2014 #72

He could have started by replacing all the US Attorneys in 2009 (like Clinton did.) OnyxCollie Jul 2014 #92

K&R woo me with science Jul 2014 #38

unlikely given the number of authoritarians and badge sniffers..... blackspade Jul 2014 #42

Snowden has finally come full circle. randome Jul 2014 #47

So it's okay for the NSA to abuse their power, authority and trust? neverforget Jul 2014 #51

No, it's not okay. From the very start, all we've needed is some evidence. randome Jul 2014 #71

We haven't needed evidence nearly so much as we have needed honesty. Pholus Jul 2014 #73

They're a spy agency. Of course they have secrets. randome Jul 2014 #75

Well I presume to. They have no baseline for trust. Pholus Jul 2014 #84

Right. Because when the NSA learns of something illegal, they should simply sit on it. randome Jul 2014 #97

You sure dropped "The NSA doesn't spy on Americans" quickly enough... Pholus Jul 2014 #102

I've come to the conclusion Aerows Jul 2014 #125

Seems to be the takeaway. Sadly. Pholus Jul 2014 #185

I've stood in that fire, randome Aerows Jul 2014 #186

In this case, the 'right thing' to do is to share evidence about illegality. randome Jul 2014 #189

Because Eddie said so and you choose to ignore US case law. nt treestar Jul 2014 #161

Objection. NSA has a longer history of ignoring said laws. Pholus Jul 2014 #171

We are talking about THIS case. treestar Jul 2014 #172

So, summarizing. You think it's unfair the NSA is held accountable for their crap but Pholus Jul 2014 #183

So Greenwald, Poitras, the NYT, the Guardian - the documents they have from Snowden aren't evidence? riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #83

Of course those documents are evidence. randome Jul 2014 #86

Falling back on "its not illegal!11!!!!11" meme... riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #87

Oh, jeeze. randome Jul 2014 #96

No, but if Eddie said they did, it would become gospel! nt treestar Jul 2014 #160

Who said that? treestar Jul 2014 #159

Oh, he's got the proof. NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #56

Duh. Try reading the excerpt in the OP above. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2014 #57

Already read it. Duh. NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #58

No proof beats demonstrable lies any day of the week. Pholus Jul 2014 #85

Snowden has been charged under the Espionage Act ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #100

I like how you try to frame it -- "Believing." Pholus Jul 2014 #104

The point being ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #107

Nope, but when my taxes are funding one of the liars... Pholus Jul 2014 #184

I should not have started with ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #187

That's okay. It was obvious this thread was not your best work. Pholus Jul 2014 #188

There is enough proof of that to place the charges treestar Jul 2014 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #69

And similarly people like yourself immediately discount it. Bonobo Jul 2014 #59

Oh, I am not surprised by that at all. NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #60

There definitely is more than a bit of irony in that 'skepticism' thing, yes. Bonobo Jul 2014 #61

Understood. NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #64

But he has provided proof of his allegations unless you think Greenwald, Poitras, the NYT, riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #81

Snowden's allegations ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #103

You are. You specifically said he is making allegations without providing proof riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #111

He alleged that he could ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #114

Have you seen the proof that the NSA is surveilling American citizens? riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #115

You still have your head in 2007, huh? randome Jul 2014 #132

Have I seen the proof that ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #141

"Its just metadata" has been thoroughly debunked. Do try to keep up. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #147

So now pointing out ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #148

Not only do they immediately accept it, they parry any questions with treestar Jul 2014 #167

Then it would happen anywhere treestar Jul 2014 #166

His word has become gospel treestar Jul 2014 #162

At the rate these 'pronouncements' are going ... NanceGreggs Jul 2014 #176

your internet provider, cell phone service, messageboard owners can too. so whats new? Sunlei Jul 2014 #74

Skinner has nude photos of us? Renew Deal Jul 2014 #76

if YOU sent them in 'private messages' all admin can see and read everything. Sunlei Jul 2014 #77

This message was self-deleted by its author woo me with science Jul 2014 #93

Unfathomably naive post. Deliberately missing the point, I hope, woo me with science Jul 2014 #94

I understand. For example the millions of files Snowden stole. A lot of 'someones' will be Sunlei Jul 2014 #95

Manning said they played video games all day.management in our Federal agencies should be fired. Sunlei Jul 2014 #78

They are welcome to my live stream inner bowl toilet cam. L0oniX Jul 2014 #91

Snowden picked quite a country to hide in... Imajika Jul 2014 #108

I hope he feels proud of his patrons AnnieBW Jul 2014 #209

Do these allegations suggest that Trillo Jul 2014 #124

So what was Mr. Whistleblower doing when this was going on? Blue_Tires Jul 2014 #143

Probably in the mens' room wacking off George II Jul 2014 #151

good point treestar Jul 2014 #163

And....whatever you do...don't post pic of your cute kid KoKo Jul 2014 #150

Well guys will be guys. leftyladyfrommo Jul 2014 #156

He can "live with" going to Gitmo? treestar Jul 2014 #165

Because of course they do. n/t DirkGently Jul 2014 #169

It doesn't happen... hughee99 Jul 2014 #175

.. NorthCarolina Jul 2014 #202

And the TSA looks at your junk in the security line. 6000eliot Jul 2014 #198

The naivete in this thread is beyond belief. BlueCheese Jul 2014 #200

Ever hear of Steganography? AnnieBW Jul 2014 #208

If people were being disciplined for it, it wouldn't have been "routine", would it? hughee99 Jul 2014 #210