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In reply to the discussion: Snowden: NSA employees routinely pass around intercepted nude photos [View all]woo me with science
(32,139 posts)154. You have tremendous patience.
Here's a good post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3006038
122. Phone records are only a small part of this issue
We're talking about geo-location from cell towers. While at some points you are in the "public sphere" and can legally be monitored by anyone without warrant (so long as it isn't stalking), there is no way to differentiate whether or not you have entered a private location (be it business, home, or private residence). Therefore it is ILLEGAL to data mine for the geo-location data for cell users as the US government HAS done.
Without a warrant, you (person, company, or government) are not constitutionally allowed to obtain this information on anyone. The courts have dealt with this issue in the past A LOT in dealing with the definition of "expectation of privacy". The only place where this is allowed is by the company that you are dealing with. For instance, you do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in regards to your geo-location information from the cell company themselves, because you agree to their services.
The Obama Administration would contend currently that under the precedent for expectation of privacy that they are then allowed to take your data because of the lessening of the expectation of privacy precedent regarding emails after they've reached their destination. That is, they hope to argue (although invoking state secrets means at least for the time being they won't have to) that your data enters the public sphere when it is aggregated by the telecom. That is however false. Otherwise it would also be required to be publicly available, as would your SSN, any product you buy on a club card at a grocery store, all online purchases by accounts made on Amazon, EBay, PayPal, etc. Additionally all searches on search engines by your computer, all tv shows watched from many cable providers, Netflix, YouTube, Facebook, AIM, Skype, etc. If they argue that they have entered the public domain then they are also arguing that ALL people are legally ALLOWED to view that data because it is no longer covered by the protections of the expectation of privacy.
The courts have left this area extremely gray and for good reason. Government agencies want the leeway to use your information but at the same time keep up the idea that you still have privacy. You can't have both.
It comes down to the fact that the Administration is intrinsically WRONG in their belief that what is being done is legal. Because if it is legal, then you have no expectation of privacy in ANY of this aforementioned information, including your SSN for instance. Either the information is in the public domain and they and everyone can see it legally or it isn't and no one can. That is the law and that is the precedent as it relates to the Fourth Amendment.
Here is a BASIC description if it for you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy
122. Phone records are only a small part of this issue
We're talking about geo-location from cell towers. While at some points you are in the "public sphere" and can legally be monitored by anyone without warrant (so long as it isn't stalking), there is no way to differentiate whether or not you have entered a private location (be it business, home, or private residence). Therefore it is ILLEGAL to data mine for the geo-location data for cell users as the US government HAS done.
Without a warrant, you (person, company, or government) are not constitutionally allowed to obtain this information on anyone. The courts have dealt with this issue in the past A LOT in dealing with the definition of "expectation of privacy". The only place where this is allowed is by the company that you are dealing with. For instance, you do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in regards to your geo-location information from the cell company themselves, because you agree to their services.
The Obama Administration would contend currently that under the precedent for expectation of privacy that they are then allowed to take your data because of the lessening of the expectation of privacy precedent regarding emails after they've reached their destination. That is, they hope to argue (although invoking state secrets means at least for the time being they won't have to) that your data enters the public sphere when it is aggregated by the telecom. That is however false. Otherwise it would also be required to be publicly available, as would your SSN, any product you buy on a club card at a grocery store, all online purchases by accounts made on Amazon, EBay, PayPal, etc. Additionally all searches on search engines by your computer, all tv shows watched from many cable providers, Netflix, YouTube, Facebook, AIM, Skype, etc. If they argue that they have entered the public domain then they are also arguing that ALL people are legally ALLOWED to view that data because it is no longer covered by the protections of the expectation of privacy.
The courts have left this area extremely gray and for good reason. Government agencies want the leeway to use your information but at the same time keep up the idea that you still have privacy. You can't have both.
It comes down to the fact that the Administration is intrinsically WRONG in their belief that what is being done is legal. Because if it is legal, then you have no expectation of privacy in ANY of this aforementioned information, including your SSN for instance. Either the information is in the public domain and they and everyone can see it legally or it isn't and no one can. That is the law and that is the precedent as it relates to the Fourth Amendment.
Here is a BASIC description if it for you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy
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Hmmm... the fact is you don't what NSA does in the vast majority of cases. They serve a very...
Adrahil
Jul 2014
#79
Yes, law enforcement typically 'justifies' itself by doing the job they were established to do.
randome
Jul 2014
#178
Ah, the old "There's no expectation of privacy on the Internet, so why worry?" argument...
klook
Jul 2014
#10
The slashed GOP may very well be an accurate representation of their sentiment.
Jackpine Radical
Jul 2014
#49
Any naked pictures of Dianne Feinstein in a sexually compromising position.....
DeSwiss
Jul 2014
#67
The floating castles remind me of that old Star Trek episode, "The Cloud Minders"
aint_no_life_nowhere
Jul 2014
#62
Ha ha ha. Government abuse of power against Americans is such a laugh riot.
woo me with science
Jul 2014
#35
He could have started by replacing all the US Attorneys in 2009 (like Clinton did.)
OnyxCollie
Jul 2014
#92
Right. Because when the NSA learns of something illegal, they should simply sit on it.
randome
Jul 2014
#97
So, summarizing. You think it's unfair the NSA is held accountable for their crap but
Pholus
Jul 2014
#183
So Greenwald, Poitras, the NYT, the Guardian - the documents they have from Snowden aren't evidence?
riderinthestorm
Jul 2014
#83
But he has provided proof of his allegations unless you think Greenwald, Poitras, the NYT,
riderinthestorm
Jul 2014
#81
You are. You specifically said he is making allegations without providing proof
riderinthestorm
Jul 2014
#111
Have you seen the proof that the NSA is surveilling American citizens?
riderinthestorm
Jul 2014
#115
your internet provider, cell phone service, messageboard owners can too. so whats new?
Sunlei
Jul 2014
#74
I understand. For example the millions of files Snowden stole. A lot of 'someones' will be
Sunlei
Jul 2014
#95
Manning said they played video games all day.management in our Federal agencies should be fired.
Sunlei
Jul 2014
#78
If people were being disciplined for it, it wouldn't have been "routine", would it?
hughee99
Jul 2014
#210