Men's Group

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

23. Self-determination has historically been in short supply.

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 11:30 PM

Dec 2013

Most men throughout history have been serfs and soldiers. Distinctly unfree and unprotected.

It was a rough existence for all concerned.

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56 replies

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Highlight:

Yes, Patriarchy Is Dead; the Feminists Prove It [View all] Bonobo Nov 2013 OP

this same attitude was displayed in the recent hof thread Doctor_J Nov 2013 #1

In any movement there is that group whose worst fear is that... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #2

"In ANY movement..." thucythucy Dec 2013 #13

Yeah, any movement... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #16

Unfortunately the patriarchy is not dead for men Major Nikon Nov 2013 #3

Why call it Patriarchy though? Bonobo Nov 2013 #4

Because people need to understand what it really is Major Nikon Nov 2013 #5

It is the premise underlying the current porn discussions. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #8

I think the actual underlying premise goes a bit deeper Major Nikon Dec 2013 #10

I disagree with the assertion that thucythucy Dec 2013 #14

What better way to protect than through control? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #15

In terms of patriarchy vs. matriarchy thucythucy Dec 2013 #18

As a conceptual frame, it's not all that far off. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #21

Why do you think that all the successful human societies lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #17

I don't know. thucythucy Dec 2013 #19

Until quite recently, men have been largely disposable. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #20

But in that case they're "protected" at the expense of any possible freedom or self-determination. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #22

Self-determination has historically been in short supply. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #23

No argument. "Freedom" is always relative - in many cases very, VERY relative. n/t nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #24

I'm not sure I understand these distinctions you seem to be making. thucythucy Dec 2013 #25

It's not really about what practical value the patriarchy has anymore Major Nikon Dec 2013 #26

Agreed. The patriarchy, however defined, should be consigned thucythucy Dec 2013 #28

You're right to a point. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #27

Well, we can go round and round on this. thucythucy Dec 2013 #29

Talking with you about this has made me think about terminology. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #30

You're assuming that equality has thucythucy Dec 2013 #31

For every 3 women enrolled in college, 2 men are. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #33

It IS an achievement, considering thucythucy Dec 2013 #35

I did create a progressive men's group to address a variety of issues. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #36

Do you actually read the pages to which you link? thucythucy Dec 2013 #37

Have a Merry Christmas and we'll talk again after the holidays. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #39

Too late to wish you a merry Christmas, (I was away from all computers!!!!) thucythucy Dec 2013 #41

It was wonderful. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #42

Glad to hear it. I also had a wonderful holiday. thucythucy Jan 2014 #43

When women were underrepresented in college is was most certainly a crisis. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #44

Once again you quote a small portion of the link you provide: thucythucy Jan 2014 #45

In 1970, a smaller gap was a huge problem. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #46

I'd have to see the raw figures thucythucy Jan 2014 #47

As a first part of a reading list thucythucy Jan 2014 #48

I've read most of it. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #49

It's not hard to find where the bias comes in with AAUW Major Nikon Jan 2014 #50

Even conceding all that, thucythucy Jan 2014 #51

And how much of that is due to illegal discrimination? Major Nikon Jan 2014 #53

agree. nt lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #54

So you disagree with the raw data thucythucy Jan 2014 #52

The demographic trend of an increasing percentage of young people going to college... lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #55

So it's the "splashing sounds" thucythucy Jan 2014 #56

I wanted to add something else. thucythucy Dec 2013 #32

The need for victimization intervention for men is irrelevant. Political will is nonexistent. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #34

The need for intervention and support for male victims is not "irrelevant." thucythucy Dec 2013 #38

The need is irrelevant. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #40

"Dead" seems just a wee bit optimistic at this time LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #6

+1 nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #7

I agree Major Nikon Nov 2013 #9

This part here: thucythucy Dec 2013 #11

I just don't see where she's coming from at all. Seems an incredibly selective view of things. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #12