Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Dash87

(3,220 posts)
51. I hope you don't mind, but I would like to reply to this:
Mon Dec 30, 2013, 08:21 PM
Dec 2013
-Finding performance art in which a woman knits with menstrual-blood stained yarn.


- That story creeped me out, but I really don't care what random artists do. It's a free country.


-Watching pornography


- I personally don't have a problem with people watching porn. I don't know enough about it to form an opinion, and if people want to watch it on their own time, it is not my place to jump into their room and tell them to stop. I believe that it's protected under the First Amendment. I also believe that some porn is misogynist, such as porn where women get hurt/abused, or porn that is supposed to humiliate women. I think the audience of these movies are also misogynist.


-Taking offense at statements like "All men are potential rapists"


- This is an often misunderstood statement. I don't believe it saying it that way. The correct statement should be something along the lines of, "If you're a stranger, don't do creepy things around me that could be perceived as threatening, and don't invade my personal space. I don't know you and I don't know what your intentions are. I would like to assume that you have good intentions, and I do owe you politeness, but I also ask that you understand where I'm coming from - I don't know for an absolute fact that you aren't out to hurt me. You could potentially be my rapist or my killer." It's a way of explaining stranger danger, danger from the guy who you're at the party with that you think is a nice guy that respects women, or danger from your best friend's old college roommate who you're on a date with. The tl:dr version is, "You're probably not a bad guy, but I'll never know for sure."


-Laughing at people who think that all penis-in-vagina sex is rape.


- You will be hard-pressed to find somebody who thinks fringe views like this should ever be taken seriously.


-Looking at women lustfully


- As with everything in life, context matters. The problem is gawking. Would you want someone staring at you for 5 minutes without breaking contact? Wouldn't that creep you out a little bit? Nobody wants to be stared at, ever - it's so uncomfortable. Sometimes, in certain situations, it can be intimidating.


-Warning women not to walk in parking garages alone late at night


- I've never heard of someone having a problem with this. It's pointless advice, though - you won't find a women that doesn't understand this already, and sometimes going out into a parking garage at night can't be avoided. The reason why this advice causes anger is because some could see it as taking responsibility away from the rapist and giving it to the victim along the lines of, "Well, you shouldn't have gone into that parking garage at night!" and stuff like this. Women are constantly blamed for things that aren't their fault.


-Even denying that "rape culture" exists is NOT misogyny (it just makes you "feel" bad)


- I disagree.


-Saying "don't throw like a girl" (again, the whole "feel bad" thing, but not HATRED of women)


- While it's not misogynist, it is male shaming. What's the point? Not every man can throw a ball well, or has strength. They shouldn't be made to feel bad about it, and it doesn't make them less of a person.


-"Objectifying" (whatever that means) -also not the same as hating women so NOT misogyny.


- I would actually argue that objectifying is a form of misogyny because it reduces women to objects for male enjoyment. It indirectly surmises that women are not equal to men, and therefore shouldn't be treated like human beings. It ignores womens' humanity, the fact that women are living and breathing people with feelings, and that women deserve to be treated with respect.

Objectifying women makes it easier to do things that hurt them. It lessens the cognitive dissonance of having the urge to hurt another human being, but also understanding that the human being you want to hurt has feelings just like you. Ever notice the language used to objectify women? What does it reduce them to? Body parts? Stereotypes? A "thing" is a more acceptable target to the human mind than another human - this is always true and has been since the beginning of humanity. Propaganda also takes this concept and runs with it effectively.
Man A disagreeing with Woman B's opinion is not misogyny ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #1
Not a bad idea Major Nikon Dec 2013 #5
Of course, also part of the equation.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #6
any time you disagree with one, that's what you are leftyohiolib Dec 2013 #2
Please be specific ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #4
The observation that a woman is overweight lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #3
What I find strange about Jennifer Lawrence is.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #7
How did you get the link that way? Upton Dec 2013 #10
Highlight the text you want to be a hyperlink lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #11
Like this? Upton Dec 2013 #12
But focusing excessively women's appearance, and not men's, *is* rooted in misogyny nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #14
No. Misogyny is hatred of women. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #17
Not making a huge distinction Bonobo Dec 2013 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author Upton Dec 2013 #8
Pointing out the biological differences between men and women.. Upton Dec 2013 #9
But exaggerating them for one's own purposes could be. Just saying... nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #15
I think you are right libodem Dec 2013 #13
I don't find your argument unreasonable. It just seems unnecessary in some ways, to me at least. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #16
I don't hate women although I've been accused of that. In_The_Wind Dec 2013 #19
And you *are* a woman. That's the ridiculous part. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #20
Exactly my point. In_The_Wind Dec 2013 #21
Which still is, and always was, a worthy ideal. Denigrating men as a gender because they have nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #22
If ... In_The_Wind Dec 2013 #23
Several things. westerebus Dec 2013 #24
I don't disagree with a single thing you said. nt Bonobo Dec 2013 #25
Thanks. nt westerebus Dec 2013 #26
Human culture seems so steeped in violence and dysfunction, all around. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #27
Could be we need a shift in focus. westerebus Dec 2013 #29
CPS cases of sexual abuse of children is on the decline. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #28
Thanks for the link. westerebus Dec 2013 #30
Seems to follow the general decline in violent crime. So it makes sense, yeah. n/t nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #31
"Tone arguments" also are not misogyny Bonobo Dec 2013 #32
Defamation pretty much fits the definition of assholery Major Nikon Dec 2013 #33
Not to get on your case or anything, but I don't see a great deal wrong with the OP there. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #34
Women vote in greater numbers than men Major Nikon Dec 2013 #35
True. And yet none of us are immune to cultural biases which affect, among many other things, our nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #36
So... the 53% voting bloc don't have electoral clout because some of them vote wrong? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #37
I never said they didn't have clout. Women voters have been crucial to the Dem Party nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #38
The difference between men and women's attitudes on abortion are in the single digits Major Nikon Dec 2013 #41
I didn't say or imply it was split along gender lines. I'm not monolithically blaming "men" *at all* nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #42
True Major Nikon Dec 2013 #43
The ERA should probably be resurrected, though who knows if it would pass nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #45
I don't have issues with women working politically to correct problems which affect women Major Nikon Dec 2013 #46
I agree. But I don't think something like the VAWA violates the spirit of equality. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #48
Laws *could* be written to address prison sexual abuse or provide contraceptive coverage... lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #49
Absolutely. Might require a bit of creativity, but I don't see why it couldn't be done. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #50
Why do you think it wouldn't pass? lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #47
And those cultural biases disparately affect both men and women in different ways Major Nikon Dec 2013 #39
I gave it a shot anyway. See post #38. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #40
I don't think you're blaming (Males) the menz. westerebus Dec 2013 #44
I hope you don't mind, but I would like to reply to this: Dash87 Dec 2013 #51
Fantastic post. I might have a minor issue with a couple points, but basically you've got it covered nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #52
All are fair points Major Nikon Dec 2013 #53
This seems like a timely thread. Bonobo Jan 2014 #54
Would that everyone agree with that... TreasonousBastard Jan 2014 #55
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Men's Group»Something making you feel...»Reply #51