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In reply to the discussion: Something making you feel bad isn't the same as Misogyny [View all]Dash87
(3,220 posts)51. I hope you don't mind, but I would like to reply to this:
-Finding performance art in which a woman knits with menstrual-blood stained yarn.
- That story creeped me out, but I really don't care what random artists do. It's a free country.
-Watching pornography
- I personally don't have a problem with people watching porn. I don't know enough about it to form an opinion, and if people want to watch it on their own time, it is not my place to jump into their room and tell them to stop. I believe that it's protected under the First Amendment. I also believe that some porn is misogynist, such as porn where women get hurt/abused, or porn that is supposed to humiliate women. I think the audience of these movies are also misogynist.
-Taking offense at statements like "All men are potential rapists"
- This is an often misunderstood statement. I don't believe it saying it that way. The correct statement should be something along the lines of, "If you're a stranger, don't do creepy things around me that could be perceived as threatening, and don't invade my personal space. I don't know you and I don't know what your intentions are. I would like to assume that you have good intentions, and I do owe you politeness, but I also ask that you understand where I'm coming from - I don't know for an absolute fact that you aren't out to hurt me. You could potentially be my rapist or my killer." It's a way of explaining stranger danger, danger from the guy who you're at the party with that you think is a nice guy that respects women, or danger from your best friend's old college roommate who you're on a date with. The tl:dr version is, "You're probably not a bad guy, but I'll never know for sure."
-Laughing at people who think that all penis-in-vagina sex is rape.
- You will be hard-pressed to find somebody who thinks fringe views like this should ever be taken seriously.
-Looking at women lustfully
- As with everything in life, context matters. The problem is gawking. Would you want someone staring at you for 5 minutes without breaking contact? Wouldn't that creep you out a little bit? Nobody wants to be stared at, ever - it's so uncomfortable. Sometimes, in certain situations, it can be intimidating.
-Warning women not to walk in parking garages alone late at night
- I've never heard of someone having a problem with this. It's pointless advice, though - you won't find a women that doesn't understand this already, and sometimes going out into a parking garage at night can't be avoided. The reason why this advice causes anger is because some could see it as taking responsibility away from the rapist and giving it to the victim along the lines of, "Well, you shouldn't have gone into that parking garage at night!" and stuff like this. Women are constantly blamed for things that aren't their fault.
-Even denying that "rape culture" exists is NOT misogyny (it just makes you "feel" bad)
- I disagree.
-Saying "don't throw like a girl" (again, the whole "feel bad" thing, but not HATRED of women)
- While it's not misogynist, it is male shaming. What's the point? Not every man can throw a ball well, or has strength. They shouldn't be made to feel bad about it, and it doesn't make them less of a person.
-"Objectifying" (whatever that means) -also not the same as hating women so NOT misogyny.
- I would actually argue that objectifying is a form of misogyny because it reduces women to objects for male enjoyment. It indirectly surmises that women are not equal to men, and therefore shouldn't be treated like human beings. It ignores womens' humanity, the fact that women are living and breathing people with feelings, and that women deserve to be treated with respect.
Objectifying women makes it easier to do things that hurt them. It lessens the cognitive dissonance of having the urge to hurt another human being, but also understanding that the human being you want to hurt has feelings just like you. Ever notice the language used to objectify women? What does it reduce them to? Body parts? Stereotypes? A "thing" is a more acceptable target to the human mind than another human - this is always true and has been since the beginning of humanity. Propaganda also takes this concept and runs with it effectively.
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But focusing excessively women's appearance, and not men's, *is* rooted in misogyny
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#14
I don't find your argument unreasonable. It just seems unnecessary in some ways, to me at least.
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#16
Which still is, and always was, a worthy ideal. Denigrating men as a gender because they have
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#22
Seems to follow the general decline in violent crime. So it makes sense, yeah. n/t
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#31
Not to get on your case or anything, but I don't see a great deal wrong with the OP there.
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#34
True. And yet none of us are immune to cultural biases which affect, among many other things, our
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#36
So... the 53% voting bloc don't have electoral clout because some of them vote wrong?
lumberjack_jeff
Dec 2013
#37
I never said they didn't have clout. Women voters have been crucial to the Dem Party
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#38
The difference between men and women's attitudes on abortion are in the single digits
Major Nikon
Dec 2013
#41
I didn't say or imply it was split along gender lines. I'm not monolithically blaming "men" *at all*
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#42
The ERA should probably be resurrected, though who knows if it would pass
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#45
I don't have issues with women working politically to correct problems which affect women
Major Nikon
Dec 2013
#46
I agree. But I don't think something like the VAWA violates the spirit of equality.
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#48
Laws *could* be written to address prison sexual abuse or provide contraceptive coverage...
lumberjack_jeff
Dec 2013
#49
Absolutely. Might require a bit of creativity, but I don't see why it couldn't be done.
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#50
And those cultural biases disparately affect both men and women in different ways
Major Nikon
Dec 2013
#39
Fantastic post. I might have a minor issue with a couple points, but basically you've got it covered
nomorenomore08
Dec 2013
#52