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NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)
14. I did. Its based on a false premise
Thu Jan 24, 2013, 06:27 PM
Jan 2013

That being: energy is conserved by producing, purchasing, and utilizing this new generation of efficient vehicles.

In addition, its arguing about an antiquated red herring. It would be much more useful for them to take on the more modern postulate:

Firstly, increased energy efficiency makes the use of energy relatively cheaper, thus encouraging increased use. Secondly, increased energy efficiency leads to increased economic growth, which pulls up energy use in the whole economy. Thirdly, increased efficiency in any one bottleneck resource multiplies the use of all the companion technologies, products and services that were being restrained by it.


What they are trying to do is incite action by poking holes in an archaic--and flawed--explanation of an unintended consequence of a complex system. This doesn't mean that unintended consequences still do not exist; IOW, if Jevons 19th Century view is not totally accurate in our current context, it doesn't prove by contradiction that innovation & production driving economic growth will inevitably lead to less energy consumption. It just proves some grad students have more free time than ability to think abstractly.

In any case, whatever its impact may be, the system will take notice of the new conditions and evolve to grow & consume energy the quickest. Whatever paradox, postulate, theory, etc, that it takes to accurately describe that objectively observable trend, that is what the technophiles need to focus on shooting down on their pathway to Utopia.

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I guess we should try to make sure that any money savings from cheaper energy limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #1
True belivers in “Jevons’ Paradox” will tell you that such efforts would fail OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #2
It seems like more of an abstract philosophy question that a real world problem. limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #3
"It's not a natural law..." NoOneMan Jan 2013 #10
Preach it, brother! GliderGuider Jan 2013 #11
As long as there are people with unfulfilled needs and wants The2ndWheel Jan 2013 #4
And there we have it! (A true believer!) OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #6
Thanks for taking out my qualifying statements to make your point The2ndWheel Jan 2013 #24
No energy has yet been conserved. In this example we just have more consumption NoOneMan Jan 2013 #9
How about addressing the Nature article linked to by the OP? OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #12
I did. Its based on a false premise NoOneMan Jan 2013 #14
Did you actually read the Nature article? OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #17
This paper is akin to analyzing genetic drift in unicorn populations NoOneMan Jan 2013 #18
So, is that a yes? OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #19
I don't think you understand that I am not arguing about the red herring NoOneMan Jan 2013 #20
Once again, you need to start somewhere OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #21
"There is a large group of people who point to..." NoOneMan Jan 2013 #23
Invoking Jevons misses the point GliderGuider Jan 2013 #5
Except, that /it is all about Jevons…/ OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #7
I do things out of a wide variety of personal concerns GliderGuider Jan 2013 #8
“The point of making things more efficient is to allow the whole system to keep growing.” OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #13
It's not simply an article of faith. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #15
"This is an article of faith for you, but not necessarily true." NoOneMan Jan 2013 #16
At the age of 60 madokie Jan 2013 #22
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