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jimmy the one

(2,717 posts)
27. original wording was for the militia interpretation
Tue Jan 17, 2017, 12:27 PM
Jan 2017

You are spot on regarding most everything you wrote in your OP, HAB (I have to couch in case there's something hiding I don't agree with).
Note how in the 8 original states which had 'have arms' decrees in their bills of rights, there was not one single state designating an individual rkba outside militia. They ALL included for the state defense, & 6 of those 8 states were exclusively for the militia rkba (right to keep bear arms), and only two included BOTH state & individual rkbas.

(rightwing) Madison Brigade: Eight of the original states enacted their own bills of rights prior to the adoption of the {US} Constitution. The following states included an arms-rights provision in their state constitution...

Virginia (Jun12, 1776) That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

DEL (Sept11,1776) That a well-regulated militia is the proper, natural and safe defence of a free govt.

PENNSY (Sep28, 1776) XIII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.


MARYLAND (Nov 11, 1776) XXV. That a well-regulated militia is the proper and natural defence of a free government.

NOR CAROLINA (Dec18, 1776) XVII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of the State; and, as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under the strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

VERMONT (July 8, 1777) XV. That the people have the right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State

MASSA (Oct25, 1780) XVII. The people have a right to keep and bear arms for the common defence.

NEW HAMPSHIRE (June 2, 1784) XXIV. A well regulated militia is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a state.
http://www.madisonbrigade.com/library_bor_2nd_amendment.htm

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.. look at New York & Rhode Island proclamations (same link) about Constitution ratification:
NEW YORK CONVENTION (July 26,1788) That the people have the right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, including the body of the people capable of bearing arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state.

RHODE ISLAND RATIFICATION CONVENTION (May 29, 1790) XVII. That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, including the body of the people capable of bearing arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state.

The preface's above were 'That the people have the right to keep & bear arms'. Is that the 'declaratory clause' according to Scalia? so that the well reg'd militia clause following is the 'operative' clause? pls explain judicial pig scalia, caught between a rock & a hard place?

NEW YORK CONVENTION (July 7,1788) {prior to above} That the militia should always be kept well organized, armed and disciplined, and include, according to past usages of the states, all the men capable of bearing arms, and that no regulations tending to render the general militia useless and defenceless, by establishing select corps of militia, of distinct bodies of military men, not having permanent interests and attachments to the community, ought to be made.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Wrong discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #1
um.. mac56 Jan 2017 #6
At the time of ratification sarisataka Jan 2017 #9
As my learned associate sarisataka has explained... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #17
The Democratic party says the 2A supports an individual right to keep and bear arms. hack89 Jan 2017 #2
There is no basis to the popular myth needledriver Jan 2017 #3
You are right...the 2nd did NOT give the people the right to bear arms. jmg257 Jan 2017 #4
+1 Doug.Goodall Jan 2017 #13
errors in your reasoning jimmy the one Jan 2017 #29
Error in your reasoning: yagotme Jan 2017 #38
Never understood why sarisataka Jan 2017 #5
I believe the placement of the comma's yagotme Jan 2017 #7
+1 Doug.Goodall Jan 2017 #14
You overly complicated it in your "translation"... jmg257 Jan 2017 #8
Why does the word "arms" safeinOhio Jan 2017 #10
It doesn't refer only to firearms sarisataka Jan 2017 #11
taking rawle out of context jimmy the one Jan 2017 #30
Thank you for your support sarisataka Jan 2017 #33
sorry sari, wrong era webster's jimmy the one Jan 2017 #42
Cherry picking key words.. sarisataka Jan 2017 #44
It doesn't. Swords pistols accoutrements jmg257 Jan 2017 #12
Aw man. Ya' done opened up a can of worms now. Ya' done blasphemed flamin lib Jan 2017 #15
You mean Democratic Party talking points don't you? hack89 Jan 2017 #16
How many guns do you own, again? Or, shall I say, "cling to"? Marengo Jan 2017 #18
Your awkward question will no doubt go unanswered... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2017 #24
Might have saved yourself the effort. It's settled law now, at least for the foreseeable future. Marengo Jan 2017 #19
I just want to thank everyone for sharing their opinion.........n/t HAB911 Jan 2017 #20
You're welcome discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #21
See post #19. It's a matter of *FACT* -- *not* opinion. NT pablo_marmol Jan 2017 #22
I just want to thank everyone for sharing their opinion.........n/t HAB911 Jan 2017 #23
I think there's an echo in here... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #25
No, the bill of rights "gives" nothing. X_Digger Jan 2017 #26
original wording was for the militia interpretation jimmy the one Jan 2017 #27
I'm really surprised no one has claimed HAB911 Jan 2017 #28
I think Hamilton was 1 of the 1st..the militia is much more of a defensive notion against tyranny jmg257 Jan 2017 #35
LOL, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, HAB911 Jan 2017 #36
You'll have to find someone who said it did. This is Hamilton's quote. jmg257 Jan 2017 #37
See: yagotme Jan 2017 #39
LOL!...........n/t HAB911 Jan 2017 #41
british scholars weighed in, after heller jimmy the one Jan 2017 #31
story & oliver support the militia view jimmy the one Jan 2017 #32
"probably" sarisataka Jan 2017 #34
They don't count. yagotme Jan 2017 #40
another sorry attempt re founding father quotes on 2ndA jimmy the one Jan 2017 #43
In all of your extended quotes sarisataka Jan 2017 #45
In your quote below, yagotme Jan 2017 #46
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