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Religion
In reply to the discussion: Historical proof of what has transpired in atheistic regime [View all]muriel_volestrangler
(102,530 posts)57. The figure is highly unreliable
If we look at the total death toll in the gulags, ignoring whether the victims were Christian or not, let alone whether they were imprisoned because they were Christian, we find:
Prior to the dissolution of the Soviet Union, estimates of Gulag victims ranged from 2.3 to 17.6 million (see a History of Gulag population estimates section). Post-1991 research by historians utilizing archival materials brought this range down considerably.[75][76] According to a 1993 study of archival Soviet data, a total of 1,053,829 people died in the Gulag from 1934 to 1953.[12]:1024 However, taking into account the fact that it was common practice to release prisoners who were either suffering from incurable diseases or near death,[77][78] a combined statistics on mortality in the camps and mortality caused by the camps gives a probable figure around 1.6 million.[8][9] In her recent study, Golfo Alexopoulos made an attempt to challenge this consensus figure by encompassing those whose life was shortened due to GULAG conditions.[7] The GULAG mortality estimated in this way yields the figure of 6 million deaths.[79] Historian Orlando Figes and Russian writer Vadim Erlikman have posited similar estimates.[10][80] Alexopoulos estimate, however, is supported by indirect and misinterpreted evidences,[81] and has obvious methodological difficulties.[7] The tentative historical consensus among archival researchers and historians who utilize such data is that of the 18 million people who passed through the gulag from 1930 to 1953, between 1.5 and 1.7 million perished as a result of their detention.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Death_toll
So 12-20 million appears to be a Cold War claim of the total dead, regardless of why the state persecuted them. The problem may be the "has been estimated" - yes, someone estimated that, but who, when, and with what evidence?
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atheist is a personal belief. there is not an athiest religion or regime. nice try tho nt
msongs
Feb 2019
#3
The purges were as means of control, not supression of a contradictory belief system.
3Hotdogs
Feb 2019
#4
Your link goes to an OP that does indeed exhibit whataboutism, which is definitely...
trotsky
Feb 2019
#99
I am not interested in your red herring about my private conversations with you.
trotsky
Feb 2019
#109
Oh and LITERALLY everyone can click on each of these links to see your consistent behavior.
trotsky
Feb 2019
#94
Well since he was a Communist and he said his goal was to force collectivation
marylandblue
Feb 2019
#54
So genocide of indigenous peoples by Christians just gets swept under the rug?
MineralMan
Feb 2019
#5
You personally insult everyone who disagrees with you every time you post about...
trotsky
Feb 2019
#84
Interesting use of straw on your part to construct the figure you wish to oppose.
guillaumeb
Feb 2019
#86
We don't have to rely on hints. Hitler and Drexler told us the official religion of the Nazi party.
Pope George Ringo II
Feb 2019
#74
Not to worry. Putin and the church will take them back into the 18th Century.
Pope George Ringo II
Feb 2019
#78
None of the atheists I know approve of that behavior or anything like it.
Dark n Stormy Knight
Feb 2019
#36
Stalin had a mustache. He killed a lot of people without mustaches, and some with.
Pope George Ringo II
Feb 2019
#47
YES, but Catholics and Protestants murdered each other back and forth long before
demigoddess
Feb 2019
#61
Some forget Marxist opposition to religion didn't emerge in a vacuum.
Act_of_Reparation
Feb 2019
#71
For the Love of Dog, people ... 'victims' is not synonymous with 'dead people' ...
mr_lebowski
Feb 2019
#104