Christian Liberals & Progressive People of Faith
In reply to the discussion: No Christian loves their neighbor as they love themselves or loves God with all their heart [View all]theophilus
(3,750 posts)The law is everything God ever commanded there is no scripture that says it is
limited to the 613 Jewish dietary laws or the even the 10 commandments. One sin against God is all it takes to be condemned.
There are 613 commands in the Law of Moses. That is the total for dietary and all of the other things that Peter said his people could not bear. It called it a yoke. Jesus obeyed and fulfilled all of those laws and was raised from the dead to die no more. We are saved because he did what He did and offers us the opportunity to believe in Him and become a part of Him when we become Christians (part of His body and given His Spirit. The Old Law is no longer in effect. Christians follow the Law of Christ.
Christians are not under the 10 Commandments except as they are embodied by Love your neighbor as yourself. That takes care of all of the ethical commands. The Sabbath and the myriad process commands were done away with as useless in love. Sin was made manifest in the Law. Christ has done away with the power of sin.
Jesus did not say try to love your God with all your heart. He didn't say try to love your neighbor as you love yourself. Trying=not doing. He gave a commandment not a suggestion. The only way you can be given credit for keeping these commandments is through the imputed righteousness of Christ.
Try is not a part of the religious language of the first Christians. I will give you that. Very Yoda like. Do or do not. There is no try. But...the concept is there and applies to people in general although we might use other words. The concept of do is the important one.
Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
Hebrews 12:14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
I agree that in Christ we can do and not just try. We can do all things through Him, but we must be doing. The concept of being satisfied with sitting with our nose in the corner and praising Jesus is anti-Christian. We praise Him by doing Good Works. We don't do them to be seen of men but we DO them. We shine like the stars in a dark world. God demands that.
The verse your paraphrasing is Philipians 2:12 here is that verse in it's context. Philipians 2:12-13 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Indeed He does. We are not just reservoirs for God's love we are conduits. We are His creation to do Good Works. All who do good works are not Christians but all Christians do Good Works.
You don't do good works by looking for good works to do. Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
This is a bizarre interpretation. We must see the need and do the Good Works.
1 John 3:17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?
James 2:14 17 14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Examples are almost endless of such teaching in the NT to Jews and to Christians.
Notice the contrast here Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Those people were not antinomians. They were religious people trusting in their own works as a means and evidence of salvation and Jesus said to them I never knew you.
The problem was not trusting in their own works. All Christians know not to do that. The problem is that they left out LOVE. Paul said that without love the greatest faith is useless. Right? It makes total sense.
In Matthew 25 they didn't even know what they did. Matthew 25:37-40 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Of course they knew what they did. They just did not realize that when they did good to the least of these they were doing it to Jesus and when they did evil to the least of these they were doing evil to Jesus. We, as a culture, should know this. We have no excuse today. Judgment was determined by what they had done and by what they had left undone while claiming Jesus as Lord. Shooting abortion doctors is not a good thing although some, no doubt, claim that it is. Depriving people of healthcare is a bad thing.
Yes there is hell in terms of eternal punishment Jesus said so Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. I understand it may be not be a popular position, but the scripture is clear.
Look at all of the New Testament written to Chrisians and to sermons given to non-believers. I think that eternal torment would have been a prominent warning. Destruction is talked about. The Jewish system was about to be wiped away by the Romans. Those who were not in Christ were going to be destroyed, etc. Eternal torment is not spoken of in clear understandable terms anywhere.
Eternal life is. That is the good news. We have that chance. All others will be done. (This is a very deep subject but just look at Paul's sermons to pagans. What does he say about eternal torment, etc?
No what we do does not matter in terms of eternal salvation. Christianity is not about anything we do it is about what Christ did for us.
What we do (apart from believing, repenting, etc.) does not matter to BEING SAVED. We are saved by grace (no matter what) through faith, or the faith. But we will be judged on what we DO as Christians. We can fall away. We can become lost. Many examples and all of the warnings to do this and not do that. All is summed up in loving others and growing and abounding in that love, and faith, and good works.
Here is what John said 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
and Paul agrees Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
We are under the Law of Christ, the Perfect Law of Liberty (Love)
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
You need to understand the atonement. Who Christ is and his life. The bible is not a rule book full of do's and donts it is the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I understand. Jesus led the perfect life and is the perfect sacrifice. We are created in Him to follow in His steps and go about doing good to bring glory to His name.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2 Peter 3:14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.
Philippians 2:12 - 12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyednot only in my presence, but now much more in my absencecontinue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
14Do everything without grumbling or arguing, 15so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation. c Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky 16as you hold firmly to the word of life. And then I will be able to boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain.
The concept of doing things is clear in the verses given. So that you may become blameless is eyecatching. He is writing to Christians. We must be faithful to the Law of Christ if we are hoping to be found blameless and inherit eternal life at the judgment.
Those in Christ cannot be found to be anything but blameless.
The truth is not complicated at all believe Jesus Christ as he is revealed in scripture and nothing needs to be added to it.
Indeed. The religion of nearly 2000 years has clouded the issue. I hope these thoughts will benefit. Do look at Created for Good Works! God's Plan for Christians: Faith, Love, and Good Works by H.K. Woodrow on Amazon for Kindle. May God Bless you in your search for Truth. Never stop searching, even when you think you have found It.