2016 Postmortem

Ghost OF Trotsky

(61 posts)

167. "These people already know that Democrats are better for their economic interests than Republicans"

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 04:25 PM

Dec 2016

Do they?
Did we make the argument well and clearly enough?
Maybe, in the spirit of this forum, we didn't. We ASSUMED that because, as passionate partisans and vastly more knowledgeable about politics than average, that our argument (that Hillary was better for the blue collar/non college educated/economically disadvantaged voter) was prima facie obvious, when it was only obvious to you and I.

Just because YOU and I know this, hell just because we see it as an absolutely fucking OBVIOUS fact, doesn't mean that we (the Democratic party and anyone who didn't want to see Trump elected) made the case.

Not saying that your initial and main point isn't valid, but a salesperson can have a better product, at a better price, and still lose the 'sale' to a lying bullshitter who gets their message across better. As you say, even racists will vote for the PoC (and presumably a female) *IF* they perceive it as being in their own best interests....

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As a black loyal Democrat, I say SCREW the white working class who insist on voting Republican [View all] EffieBlack Nov 2016 OP

Yeah! Screw them! HassleCat Nov 2016 #1

You're right. We DON'T need them and their votes. We have plenty of potential votes right here EffieBlack Dec 2016 #10

Romney got MORE of the White vote than Trump. PotatoChip Dec 2016 #88

Um, your data proves the OP's point. yardwork Dec 2016 #96

Just as white people were responsible for President Romney? PotatoChip Dec 2016 #101

If it were up to us alone, yes, we would have President Romney. yardwork Dec 2016 #102

Why did we lose members of 'The Obama Coalition' with voters of color? PotatoChip Dec 2016 #114

I'm really not interested in word games. yardwork Dec 2016 #116

Post #88 shows leftynyc Dec 2016 #131

If no whites voted, Democrats would have won every single state. yardwork Dec 2016 #133

Nope - I take zero responsibility leftynyc Dec 2016 #137

Your statement is incorrect. You're confusing percentages and numbers. yardwork Dec 2016 #139

Can you link to where I can see those numbers? leftynyc Dec 2016 #144

I'm on my phone and unable to research and link. Try 538. yardwork Dec 2016 #149

I voted for HRC awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #180

Trump's data Analytics team worked on "voter suppression" tactics as well: JHan Dec 2016 #175

They also put out tweets and memes targeted to Clinton voters saying they could vote online.. JHan Dec 2016 #177

the rust belt elected Trump. HRC won popular vote handily. SleeplessinSoCal Dec 2016 #188

don't forget the Putin's white and that Hillary won griloco Dec 2016 #162

Yes, of course... rational thought and reason works effectively with idiots and bigots. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #160

Absolutely!!!! I don't want them. I won't accept racist, sexist, Islamaphobe assholes nt adigal Dec 2016 #210

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #2

Huh? Read the OP again. The post is clearly taking a stance against wooing white racists into . . . brush Dec 2016 #6

The problem is that over the last few days some are calling ALL rural white voters racists NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #11

I'm not sure Trump's win was because former Obama voters voted for Trump brush Dec 2016 #14

Thank you EffieBlack Dec 2016 #16

Are you implying that only people of color voted for Obama? NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #40

Why do people keep asking that question? It's ridiculous to assume that, because someone voted for EffieBlack Dec 2016 #43

If it's ridiculous to assume they can be racist and voted for Obama mythology Dec 2016 #132

Not ridiculous at all EffieBlack Dec 2016 #135

I'm implying that repug voter suppression stopped many blacks and other POCs . . . brush Dec 2016 #50

Anyone voting for Trump is at the very least willing to tolerate bigotry. yardwork Dec 2016 #104

And to purposely turn a deaf ear and blind eye to minorities who begged them not to vote for him EffieBlack Dec 2016 #108

It's sad to see the attempts at self-justification. yardwork Dec 2016 #110

Those poor working class whites making 72k a year voted for Trump leftofcool Dec 2016 #155

Voting for Obama is not evidence of non-racism EffieBlack Dec 2016 #15

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2016 #52

that is simply NOT true, you have consistently made this false claim all over the board Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #80

This! mcar Dec 2016 #127

That's not true. You actually posted a thread that said whites are to blame for Trump election NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #206

that was the title of the article, and if you had bothered to read it you would not Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #207

The thread title was offensive and attacked/blamed all white people NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #211

It did NOT say ALL white people, that is a flat out lie Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #213

What was the title of the article you posted NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #214

NO IT WAS NOT Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #215

I am not harassing you, I am correcting you because what you are saying is wrong NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #216

no, you are harrassing me Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #217

And again...the title implied all whites, not just Trump voters and it offended many people NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #218

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #112

You damn right bravenak Dec 2016 #3

I've been broke all my life and about to lose my only source of health insurance, the ACA. Starry Messenger Dec 2016 #4

I am with you and I love you Starry................ sheshe2 Dec 2016 #17

((hugs)) Starry Messenger Dec 2016 #18

I was going to say more. I can't. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #22

I am flabbergasted at the number of Democrats who complain that we might OFFEND these people EffieBlack Dec 2016 #21

Hey Effie. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #28

Fuck them . . . EffieBlack Dec 2016 #30

yeah yuiyoshida Dec 2016 #37

I am white and appalled. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #39

... SidDithers Dec 2016 #209

... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #70

K&R! betsuni Dec 2016 #5

As a white loyal Democrat, I agree with you 100%. Zen Democrat Dec 2016 #7

Please, don't divide us. n/t mia Dec 2016 #8

I'm NOT dividing anyone - unless by "us," you mean all white voters, Republicans and Dems EffieBlack Dec 2016 #9

Yes, you are. mia Dec 2016 #13

Bullshit EffieBlack Dec 2016 #19

Your argument is just as powerful without color words. mia Dec 2016 #26

...but SOME care MORE about those of their own skin tone..... alittlelark Dec 2016 #32

"You are much more than the color of your skin." Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #81

It is disingenuous to pretend that bigotry against people of color isn't doesn't exist. yardwork Dec 2016 #100

Please who is we? lunasun Dec 2016 #111

You haven't seen division until you welcome people who would vote for that racist Trump . . . brush Dec 2016 #25

The division is about survival, not color. mia Dec 2016 #27

And many voted for racial reasons as well brush Dec 2016 #31

The racial ones will never join as long as we define the Democratic Party by race. mia Dec 2016 #55

What's up with the title of your post? The Dem party is not defined by race, it's multi-ethic brush Dec 2016 #59

This whole thread is about white voters. mia Dec 2016 #73

I don't understand what you're saying brush Dec 2016 #74

Guess what? That's the whole point. It means they're never going to join. kcr Dec 2016 #118

That's bullshit EffieBlack Dec 2016 #34

"Black voters in their class and situation" are probably Republicans. mia Dec 2016 #46

No, they're not. There are millions of black working class people who are struggling just like white EffieBlack Dec 2016 #49

Anyone who voted for Trump is "stupid", as much as I hate that word. mia Dec 2016 #72

Yes! 100% radical noodle Dec 2016 #54

Colour ofttimes, especially in America, determines survival, amongst other things. Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #82

Ugh. Someone pull up that poem by that minister about MADem Dec 2016 #86

You didn't just say "color wars." MADem Dec 2016 #85

Color wars? kcr Dec 2016 #117

Meanwhile... Bobbie Jo Dec 2016 #128

Maybe Herr Drumpf discriminated against potential renters not for their race greatauntoftriplets Dec 2016 #184

"Color wars"??? greatauntoftriplets Dec 2016 #183

What about Republican voters who didn't vote Republican until this year? SpareribSP Dec 2016 #78

Please provide a link to clear evidence. spooky3 Dec 2016 #201

The country is already deeply divided. yardwork Dec 2016 #97

Are you fucking kidding me? whopis01 Dec 2016 #200

It's sad but revealing how many so-called Democrats are feel more allegiance to white Republicans EffieBlack Dec 2016 #208

Good for you. jalan48 Dec 2016 #12

I think anyone who voted for Trump, knowing full well that he is a racist supported by the KKK and EffieBlack Dec 2016 #20

Who said they are going to be in the Party? Maybe they are just voters. jalan48 Dec 2016 #23

You are delusional if you think Dems can get them to vote for the Democrat without giving them EffieBlack Dec 2016 #29

What exactly are you worried about the Dems possibly giving them? jalan48 Dec 2016 #35

Let me break it down for you . . . EffieBlack Dec 2016 #42

excellent assessment Skittles Dec 2016 #64

"These people already know that Democrats are better for their economic interests than Republicans" Ghost OF Trotsky Dec 2016 #167

Yes, we did make that argument. Over and over and over. For years EffieBlack Dec 2016 #198

I don't think the white people who live around me "know" Democrats are phylny Dec 2016 #194

this Grey Lemercier Dec 2016 #83

That's a good way to win races in the future... PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #24

Yes, it IS a good way to win races in the future EffieBlack Dec 2016 #38

Clearly there aren't enough people on this side PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #48

There are PLENTY of people on this side - but the Democrats need to do a better job in getting them EffieBlack Dec 2016 #51

So it's easier getting people out to vote PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #67

Yes, it is MUCH easier - and MUCH MUCH smarter - to focus on getting people who already share our EffieBlack Dec 2016 #87

How do you feel... TeeYiYi Dec 2016 #33

Samesies bravenak Dec 2016 #41

I know... TeeYiYi Dec 2016 #53

I feel the same about the small number of blacks who voted for Trump. But your claim is false. EffieBlack Dec 2016 #44

Which Republican... TeeYiYi Dec 2016 #61

every Republican except for four, including Nixon JustinL Dec 2016 #77

As a matter of fact, yes EffieBlack Dec 2016 #89

Did the Black vote give Trump the presidency? Red Oak Dec 2016 #71

Bullshit EffieBlack Dec 2016 #91

Wow! Chitown Kev Dec 2016 #99

Excellent point EffieBlack Dec 2016 #105

Then let's chase the black vote Red Oak Dec 2016 #140

They're not automatically bigots, just based on who they voted for... jack_krass Dec 2016 #36

Bingo NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #45

Bingo - that's exactly what I'm saying EffieBlack Dec 2016 #56

Why are you so quick to defend them? EffieBlack Dec 2016 #47

Probably because you're making assumptions that just aren't true NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #57

Becauss i know many of them personally, and its easier to demonize anonymous people jack_krass Dec 2016 #58

THEY VOTED FOR A RACIST, MISOGYNIST PIECE OF SHIT Skittles Dec 2016 #68

Of course you wouldn't label them a racist. They're your friends (even though they're misogynistic?) EffieBlack Dec 2016 #92

"white friends who have dug their heels into the necks of black and brown people in this country" jack_krass Dec 2016 #122

If you voted for Donald Trump, you did indeed dig your heels into our necks. Period. I don't care EffieBlack Dec 2016 #124

"I don't want them in my party" jack_krass Dec 2016 #126

You want people who prefer voting for a blowhard bigot than a qualified woman EffieBlack Dec 2016 #134

you vote for someone who RUNS as a racist, misogynist piece of shit Skittles Dec 2016 #65

Actually, anyone voting for Trump tolerates obvious bigotry. yardwork Dec 2016 #106

If you voted for Trump, you are either actively racist, or you are passively racist gollygee Dec 2016 #115

Racism is not a binary, but a scale. There is no doubt that trump made racist statements jack_krass Dec 2016 #120

They were very far apart on that scale gollygee Dec 2016 #136

The wall is not about race, and Muslims are not a race jack_krass Dec 2016 #142

That's how you're deciding it isn't racism? gollygee Dec 2016 #143

"We can racialize anything" jack_krass Dec 2016 #150

I'm not new to DU. gollygee Dec 2016 #151

Me neither, ive been a lurker since the beginning. jack_krass Dec 2016 #156

You probably don't even see the irony in your post . . . EffieBlack Dec 2016 #196

I'm sure they all deny they're bigots dflprincess Dec 2016 #190

I'm for the anti-fascist party world wide wally Dec 2016 #60

K&R ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #62

To tell you the honest truth, am sick to my stomach still! akbacchus_BC Dec 2016 #63

While you are on your "ist" rant please explain to me Red Oak Dec 2016 #66

Because ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #75

One by one EffieBlack Dec 2016 #93

I couldn't agree with you more. Hamlette Dec 2016 #69

Back for the kick ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #76

This is no different than if LBGT people said 'screw blacks who embraced homophobia' Onlooker Dec 2016 #79

That is a solid comparrison. I imagine its slightly easier to accept because black americans, JCanete Dec 2016 #172

I agree with you wholeheartedly. MADem Dec 2016 #84

THANK YOU!!! EffieBlack Dec 2016 #94

This is exactly what I don't get so I keep asking the question.. JHan Dec 2016 #90

It's very telling that these people expect us to understand and reach out to white voters who stab EffieBlack Dec 2016 #95

As a white rural female Hillary voter, AirmensMom Dec 2016 #98

Too many white Democrats have too long ignored voter suppression because they didn't think EffieBlack Dec 2016 #107

I absolutely agree. n/t AirmensMom Dec 2016 #109

'I am truly ashamed to be white right now, ashamed to be a white woman, ashamed to be an American.' NRQ891 Dec 2016 #119

Your story is mine, too mcar Dec 2016 #130

Thank you. AirmensMom Dec 2016 #145

Oh yeah mcar Dec 2016 #147

As another white female (but urban) voter, I also agree. spooky3 Dec 2016 #191

I stand with you. nt LexVegas Dec 2016 #103

I agree blue cat Dec 2016 #113

Is there a difference between being racist and tolerating racism? many a good man Dec 2016 #121

Only in degree and the ability to try to feel better about oneself - but the result is the same EffieBlack Dec 2016 #123

I wish DU would let us rec replies. AirmensMom Dec 2016 #146

K & R rogue emissary Dec 2016 #152

K&R mcar Dec 2016 #125

Are they all racist? And maybe they don't know that Democrats are in their best interest too. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #129

I don't know and don't care if they are personally racist EffieBlack Dec 2016 #138

I agree. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #141

You know, maybe people can change. Hillary Clinton seems to have. Red Oak Dec 2016 #148

K&R! DemonGoddess Dec 2016 #153

rust belt Afromania Dec 2016 #154

Many people are very self-centered. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #157

. Afromania Dec 2016 #159

Yeah. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #161

this comment has a big heaven05 Dec 2016 #165

We don't have to drag in white racists, but Trumpt got something like 30% of Hispanic votes. MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #158

This is a good article about how people could vote for T in spite of the offensive comments Dems to Win Dec 2016 #202

You don't get it. It's your responsibility to reach out to them. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #163

YES! YES! YES! Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #164

Thanks for a great thread! Mountain Mule Dec 2016 #166

Unions also The Jungle 1 Dec 2016 #168

Hillary would have won if so many blacks hadnt stayed away on election day or voted drumpf. lark Dec 2016 #169

I certainly can't blame African Americans who... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #171

Yes - if only fewer than 8 percent of blacks had voted for Trump EffieBlack Dec 2016 #174

It is worth pointing out thread after thread, that this is what the media is peddling, it may be JCanete Dec 2016 #170

I won't disagree with the OP and I do want to point out one thing few people have mentioned at all world wide wally Dec 2016 #173

Respectfully disagree hueymahl Dec 2016 #176

+1000 n/t. okieinpain Dec 2016 #178

This is what's wrong with our country today! PLEASE READ!!! dembychoice Dec 2016 #179

That's an oldie but goodie! Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2016 #181

Yes they are clueless....for sure! dembychoice Dec 2016 #220

Nice!! Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #182

They like Trump because he is hella racist. wildeyed Dec 2016 #185

Brilliant post. greatauntoftriplets Dec 2016 #186

as a loyal white democrat i agree with you. DesertFlower Dec 2016 #187

How do you screw THEM without screwing eveyone else in the same economic situation? Martin Eden Dec 2016 #189

As Dwmocrats, we pursue policies that are good for all workers, KingCharlemagne Dec 2016 #192

I understand the sentiment. Remember tho, the realities of elections TuslaUltra Dec 2016 #193

I do know a few who voted because of abortion. raging moderate Dec 2016 #195

misguided souls, alright azureblue Dec 2016 #197

If they voted for trump then they are white supremacists samir.g Dec 2016 #199

Screw anyone who insist on voting Republican enterthetoad Dec 2016 #203

Don't think this was about race? EffieBlack Dec 2016 #204

These people believe that really poor people are NOT working class. raging moderate Dec 2016 #205

Cool BlindTiresias Dec 2016 #212

Oh, yes - minority voters will flock to vote with the party full of Trumpians EffieBlack Dec 2016 #219