2016 Postmortem

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts) Sun Dec 4, 2016, 09:52 PM Dec 2016

101

A candidate that gets "damaged" by a primary run has no business anywhere near the GE. [View all]

Seriously, all this nonsense blaming Sanders for Clinton's loss and the subsequent fallout downticket makes the whole party look weak and petty.

I work installing and repairing industrial machines. Before I sign off, I don't just cycle the power and call it good because I don't want to "hurt" the delicate thing. I run it up to full power, dump as much load on it as I can, and keep it right against the red line until it stabilizes, blows up, or shuts down. If it can take what I do to it, it'll take what the operator does. I assure the job.

Primaries should be similar--make them at least resemble the GE. But we have this weird rush to circle the wagons. Push away anybody even slightly competitive, more closed primaries, etc. Just ever-more insular and protected. All that's going to get us is another candidate that can't hack it in the GE. The general isn't going to have closed races, meek opponents, super delegates, or a friendly committee running the show to carry our preferred candidate, so all of that is counterproductive garbage. It needs to be open, fair, and absolutely hard as hell for all candidates, not just some. Even if it doesn't change who the nominee ultimately is, it'll train than nominee for the slog of the general.

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A candidate that gets "damaged" by a primary run has no business anywhere near the GE. [View all] hellofromreddit Dec 2016 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #1

Every candidate in every election who has an opponent is "damaged" in the primaries. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #2

Obama vs. Clinton. Obama came out stronger than ever. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #5

Field test are just that. Lochloosa Dec 2016 #3

Problem was Bernie was not field-tested -not-reeeeeeally-vetted!! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #7

Hillary didn't have the number for the nomination until June Omaha Steve Dec 2016 #9

AhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhtheMathAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhH Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #11

Wasn't that what Hillary was supposed to do? Really vet and field-test him? The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #19

No she was supposed to go for the primary win AND make sure to not lose Bernie's supporters Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #24

Oh, piffle. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2016 #28

Yes! You're right! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #29

The "Or Bust" crowd is only happy when they are trashing Hillary or Democrats. LonePirate Dec 2016 #32

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #58

How dare he awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #124

He did not create Hillary's real problems as a candidate. He did not participate in the hype either. Ford_Prefect Dec 2016 #23

Real problems? Most are fake? You know who has real problems!??? Trump. Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #25

Switch the focus rather than answer the question much? Ford_Prefect Dec 2016 #31

Trump: Words are fake! promises are fake! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #34

Astute commentary 90-percent Dec 2016 #113

+1000. nt awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #130

Not relevant. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #35

Okee! Madam45for2923 Dec 2016 #38

The real problem was, Bernie refused to engage Hillary on the emails problem BlueProgressive Dec 2016 #82

Thanks for this post. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2016 #4

Yup. sfwriter Dec 2016 #6

Destiny? Begabig Dec 2016 #112

Ding! A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2016 #8

Thank you! jimlup Dec 2016 #10

So, we can put to rest the "Sanders would have won" bullshit. baldguy Dec 2016 #12

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #16

First of all, Clinton got 2.5 million more votes than Trump. baldguy Dec 2016 #26

Along with "Blame Sanders." Orsino Dec 2016 #135

See #26 baldguy Dec 2016 #172

Can we please put this issue to rest!!! tom_kelly Dec 2016 #13

And now we see what happens when someone isn't even redlined. Hillary was not really hit that bad Exilednight Dec 2016 #14

Excellent point, Exilednight! Folks don't see this at all, though. Blamers gotta blame. JudyM Dec 2016 #43

Unlike HRC in 08 awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #127

YES! +10000 TXCritter Dec 2016 #15

I think the Primary made Secretary Clinton stronger, not weaker elmac Dec 2016 #17

zi don't blame the primary, Bernie, or anyone else associatedd with the nomination. napi21 Dec 2016 #18

Sanders caused Hillary to be a BETTER candidate. Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #20

Don't you remember how they didn't need us GummyBearz Dec 2016 #169

Some I know are not only blaming Sanders but everything he represents. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #21

He represents awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #128

Bingo. He talks the way Democrats talked before Reagan.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #148

Wish I could rec your reply. nt awoke_in_2003 Dec 2016 #155

Hear, hear. LS_Editor Dec 2016 #22

The Democratic Party is doing this? murielm99 Dec 2016 #45

Ah, I see. Republican behavor reflects on the Republican Party, but the reverse is not true for... LS_Editor Dec 2016 #174

You have not proven anything. n/t murielm99 Dec 2016 #175

Right. Because a significant number of Democrats here haven't been scapegoating Bernie Sanders. LS_Editor Dec 2016 #176

Bernie is out grave dancing. murielm99 Dec 2016 #177

Thank you for confirming my point. Hate the man who acts more like a Democrat. LS_Editor Dec 2016 #178

Nailed it! Nt LostOne4Ever Dec 2016 #27

I don't think someone understands the concept of Democrats nominating a Democrat LonePirate Dec 2016 #30

Yeah, I don't. Because it's nonsense. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #37

Bernie was soundly defeated in the open primary system you advocate. LonePirate Dec 2016 #42

I eagerly await the day you make a point instead of arguing hypotheticals. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #46

There is nothing more hypothetical then making vague assertions about the future. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #53

Do you sharpen your knives with stones or pillows? hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #54

I eagerly await the day you acknowledge facts instead of embracing fantasy. LonePirate Dec 2016 #114

The current primary system is flawed. hay rick Dec 2016 #52

Sanders should never have allowed to run in our party. Period. The end. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #33

Why? hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #40

Because he cared more about himself than the Democratic party. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #71

Oh Bullshit. progressoid Dec 2016 #84

They were nothing like his primary rallies. They were not huge rallies. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #86

Its funny. During the primaries we kept getting told that Bernie's huge rallies didn't mean anything progressoid Dec 2016 #89

I never said his rallies were meaningless. Please stop making shit up. nt. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #90

No, but it was a common meme on DU from the Clinton camp to mock them. progressoid Dec 2016 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #96

Well, do you agree or not? If you think they were meaningful, then he probably should have done boston bean Dec 2016 #109

I see you just don't want to address want I actually said. nt SunSeeker Dec 2016 #133

I see you just don't want to address want I actually said. nt SunSeeker Dec 2016 #132

Thank you, SunSeeker for getting the gd facts out there. Cha Dec 2016 #93

Because she was such a strong candidate, it was vital she have no real competition Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #41

You got it. Makes sense in Bizarro world. JudyM Dec 2016 #44

A candidate that is besmirching the entire party and it's members who vote "estabishment" boston bean Dec 2016 #103

Thats certainly one narrative. Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #107

It was his never ending and still ongoing criticisms of the party boston bean Dec 2016 #108

If you think we should have a rule excluding independents from running in our primaries, Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #171

You'd prefer left-leaning members of our coalition ran as third parties? Gore1FL Dec 2016 #118

Yeah i would since many seem to think it would draw republican white middle class voters. boston bean Dec 2016 #120

What? Help me understand... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #122

What i am saying is the argument for bernie was his ability to speak to white workong class. boston bean Dec 2016 #123

Working Class had been historically good for the Democrats. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #137

Hillary won the working class. but hey, we can all pretend she didn't.... boston bean Dec 2016 #139

Dividing the left up tp protect weak candidates is a losing cause. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #142

Why divided who?? boston bean Dec 2016 #143

You are suggesting that the divisions on the left be represented by multiple parties instead of one. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #149

I prefer to win future elections over finding scapegoats for the last. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #134

what you call scapegoats and offer a lifeline to are what I call boston bean Dec 2016 #136

I voted for Sanders in the nomination phase and Clinton in the GE. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #138

None of the above. Why do you ask. We are discussing people who voted for trump m boston bean Dec 2016 #145

We are discussing closing out people on the left. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #150

I suggest you follow along in the thread. boston bean Dec 2016 #157

I have been. If you haven't noticed, I've been disagreeing with you on party building. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #166

This message was self-deleted by its author Gore1FL Dec 2016 #165

That's how it works in the U.S. We have 2 dominant parties and build our coalitions in advance. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #117

Quite frankly my dear, I didn't give two shits what Sanders did/does, except use our party like.... Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #164

I agree. I think there should be a period of at least three years beforehand where you have to be stevenleser Dec 2016 #161

And returned to the US Senate, not as a Democrat, but as an Independent. I don't get it. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #163

This message was self-deleted by its author LongtimeAZDem Dec 2016 #36

No problem with what you say, just ready to move on. The Primary is over, the election is over. We Alekzander Dec 2016 #39

This is the Postmortem Forum Blue Shoes Dec 2016 #48

If we don't figure out how we fucked up this time Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #79

I know, big mistakes were made & we must learn what they are to avoid them in the future. Actually, Alekzander Dec 2016 #111

It wasn't just about Hillary. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #47

But, but...the most vetted candidate in history wasn't vetted enough! TwilightZone Dec 2016 #55

How would vetting foretell Comey violating the Hatch Act twice with unprecedented letters? SunSeeker Dec 2016 #87

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #119

Hillary was in charge of her campaign and her loss is her own. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #57

We'll never know ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #59

A party that can't handle criticism in politics? Might as well complain about poo at the zoo. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #61

Sander's strategy was a huge political fail.. JHan Dec 2016 #72

Lying about what? NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #74

Well, aren't you cute. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #75

You accused me of "lying" ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #77

Thanks Nance.. That's right. Hillary nor Obama did not say the Dem Cha Dec 2016 #65

Ah, a gun control graphic. How fitting. appal_jack Dec 2016 #73

Didn't Trump say "Vote for me, and I'll fix the GOP?" MADem Dec 2016 #62

Yes, he did. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #68

This election was not about Hillary or Sanders Frances Dec 2016 #49

And whether our democracy would fail or not. hay rick Dec 2016 #64

Sorry, but Sanders was never a member of "the party" until.... George II Dec 2016 #50

Jesus Christ. How many votes do you think he would have pulled in the GE had he run 3rd party. JCanete Dec 2016 #88

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #97

I must have missed the part of the 2008 primary where Hillary, as her campaign burned around her,... SaschaHM Dec 2016 #51

Many don't want to admit to this though.. JHan Dec 2016 #66

Wait...was that an ad against democrats? Is that what you heard? That is an ad against our system. JCanete Dec 2016 #85

That's all well and good as long as people see the whole picture..not just what the media wants you judesedit Dec 2016 #56

It's a cruel world out there. hay rick Dec 2016 #60

Get real. Being "primaried" has never made any incumbent stronger, pnwmom Dec 2016 #63

Never? Get real. It made Obama stronger in 2008. He rocketed out of there and into the GE. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #67

Obama was a newcomer, not a known quantity like Hillary or an incumbent. pnwmom Dec 2016 #70

Ah, so never, but with a bunch of exceptions for every time you're wrong. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #76

Obama wasn't an exception. Don't you understand? In the 2008 campaign pnwmom Dec 2016 #80

Ah, I had assumed "incumbent" was a typo, seeing as we didn't have any this year. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #159

In terms of being a high profile, very well known and qualified candidate, pnwmom Dec 2016 #167

Incumbent means incumbent, not whatever you declare it to mean at your convenience. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #173

SoS is not the POTUS... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #95

K & R SammyWinstonJack Dec 2016 #69

Jerry Brown totally damaged (Bill) Clinton in '92. Tatiana Dec 2016 #78

She had way too many skeletons in the closet FreakinDJ Dec 2016 #81

She was 9 points ahead in the polls before James Comey pnwmom Dec 2016 #94

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #98

And some of them weren't fictitious. Orsino Dec 2016 #140

That's a ridiculous analogy, sorry. ucrdem Dec 2016 #83

Hillary did win the primaries DFW Dec 2016 #92

Then you must wasn't the opp research file on Sanders released BainsBane Dec 2016 #99

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #100

She used nothing BainsBane Dec 2016 #101

Ah, the good old bullshitfirehose approach. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #104

Well, you confirm my point BainsBane Dec 2016 #106

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #131

Paragraph 1 score: -13 points. I did not read the rest. Better luck next time. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #158

You just perfectly described yourself. TwilightZone Dec 2016 #121

A candidate who runs a divisive bitter primary in an important year electorally...and lose the Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #102

That's absurd. Hell, every election is "The most important bla bla of our lifetime!" hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #105

With this post here, you seem to think DJT is just fine and dandy boston bean Dec 2016 #110

This message was self-deleted by its author Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #115

That does sound pretty dumb. I sure am glad I'm not the one saying it. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #160

So after the primary, the party should have nominated someone other than Hillary Clinton? liberal N proud Dec 2016 #126

This message was self-deleted by its author Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #129

For what? liberal N proud Dec 2016 #168

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #153

Usually, Democrats don't attack each other this much Nonhlanhla Dec 2016 #141

Bernie ran a negative campaign against Clinton portlander23 Dec 2016 #151

Here is a link for your reflection Nonhlanhla Dec 2016 #156

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #152

Agreed 100% Arazi Dec 2016 #144

Oh bullshit ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #146

And a Candidate that cannot win a primary also has no business anywhere NEAR A GE bravenak Dec 2016 #147

Sanders insulted the donor class. alarimer Dec 2016 #154

A candidate who lost by millions has no business anywhere near the GE. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #162

So what we need to do is let the primary loser run Progressive dog Dec 2016 #170