2016 Postmortem

JCanete

(5,272 posts)

54. okay, I see, you're not responding to what I'm posting, just to a preconceived notion you already

Wed Dec 14, 2016, 03:39 PM

Dec 2016

Last edited Thu Dec 15, 2016, 05:42 PM - Edit history (1)

have about what I'm saying. The establishment, people like Albright and Boxer and on and on absolutely used their voice...and I don't mean this conspiratorially--they have every right to endorse the person they want to even though some of them did it with shady as fuck lies about Sanders history, including Clinton--but all of that equates to a hugely connected subset of the population that can call people up and talk to the press, and give interviews that will be on the news.

The DNC leadership just happens to be made up of these people. In whatever impotent capacity, it had biases. They were played out most egregiously in the debate schedule and the real attempt to make this a coronation before the primaries even began, because they thought they already had their candidate.

The reality is that a socialist message does not speak to the sensibilities of these establishment people. It's not illuminati shit and I never claimed it to be. It also doesn't speak to millionaire news producers or their billionaire bosses. This affects the tone of the coverage. It affects when and whether there even is coverage.

You really just posted a lot of stuff that had nothing to do with my argument.

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A word of advice about controlling the Democratic Party message [View all] BainsBane Dec 2016 OP

I think people should read the party platform and formulate their message. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #1

A number of people seem to confuse positions or message BainsBane Dec 2016 #2

Message is derived from positions. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #3

Unfortunately for many BainsBane Dec 2016 #6

Amen. nt brer cat Dec 2016 #39

Obviously we need as many good candidates as possible Uponthegears Dec 2016 #4

Hillary Clinton won voters earning under $50k BainsBane Dec 2016 #5

What utter tripe Uponthegears Dec 2016 #8

I didn't mention Sanders or his supporters BainsBane Dec 2016 #13

And yet, we could not agree more on some things Uponthegears Dec 2016 #31

please make this it's own op DonCoquixote Dec 2016 #28

+1000 PotatoChip Dec 2016 #51

"Clearly you don't sit down with those you disagree with." Are you referencing the poster? Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #9

Yes, I was BainsBane Dec 2016 #14

On a more concilatory note Uponthegears Dec 2016 #11

BB. +10000 Hekate Dec 2016 #12

Same here Gothmog Dec 2016 #33

Unfortunately some want to control the Democratic Party message from the outside. George II Dec 2016 #7

That is not an accurate gauge of whether a message can resonate with people. Just running and tyring JCanete Dec 2016 #10

But that's the thing, isn't it? bravenak Dec 2016 #17

Winning with our current party is fan-fiction that our leaders keep regurgitating and fawning over. JCanete Dec 2016 #23

I disagree with your analysis Gothmog Dec 2016 #18

How can you disagree with my analysis and then say if your campaign resonates, donors will JCanete Dec 2016 #21

Have you worked on a campaign? Gothmog Dec 2016 #32

who are those key groups? Who are the people usually engaged at this level? JCanete Dec 2016 #35

Again, you are not answering my question Gothmog Dec 2016 #37

So, the premise I was responding to was basically "if your ideas are so hot prove it JCanete Dec 2016 #40

Again, go work with a county party or on a real campaign Gothmog Dec 2016 #42

sad and wrong... your words are the things I was saying were reinforcing my argument. Not that I JCanete Dec 2016 #46

In the real world the concern is electability and being competitive Gothmog Dec 2016 #53

now you're basically saying that in the "real world" donors don't give a shit about policy, just JCanete Dec 2016 #55

I understand there are all kinds of obstacles to running BainsBane Dec 2016 #22

Where I agree with you is that refighting the primary is pointless, and that energy spent JCanete Dec 2016 #27

my problem with your analsysis BainsBane Dec 2016 #38

That recurring theme about rhetoric versus policy--excuse me for being cute--is rhetoric. JCanete Dec 2016 #41

You do know that Sanders outspent Clinton in most primaries? Gothmog Dec 2016 #43

but that is nothing compared to the megaphone that went out over the corporate media from JCanete Dec 2016 #47

Again, you are wrong Gothmog Dec 2016 #52

okay, I see, you're not responding to what I'm posting, just to a preconceived notion you already JCanete Dec 2016 #54

Rhetoric is meaningless BainsBane Dec 2016 #45

Except that I didn't say populist rhetoric was good just cuz it feels good to hear it. JCanete Dec 2016 #48

You relied on his claim BainsBane Dec 2016 #49

Well that's not exactly fair. He's a Presidential Candidate. He could have said "this is the only JCanete Dec 2016 #50

DU does not reflect the Democratic Party or the real world Gothmog Dec 2016 #15

Interesting ticket split in your county BainsBane Dec 2016 #16

Yep Gothmog Dec 2016 #19

Another way is for everyone to call their Democratic congressmen, lots of them, and OFTEN mtnsnake Dec 2016 #20

Would you actually call based on rhetoric you want them to use? BainsBane Dec 2016 #24

Do you honestly think that tons of people here are going to follow your advice mtnsnake Dec 2016 #30

No, but you're advocating calling representatives BainsBane Dec 2016 #34

I would encourage those that aren't the type to run to still get involved and proactively seek good think Dec 2016 #25

I agree local politics are key BainsBane Dec 2016 #26

A grad student I talked with today told me my generation was at fault. redstatebluegirl Dec 2016 #29

Great idea, BB. Too bad Zephyr Teachout's message didn't Cha Dec 2016 #36

And the Sanders supported candidate running against DWS also lost Gothmog Dec 2016 #44