2016 Postmortem

Scruffy1

(3,418 posts)

143. In my opinion neither was a great candidate.

Thu Dec 15, 2016, 10:53 AM

Dec 2016

Both have been around way too long in DC. Bernie had his negatives and so did Hillary, and that's what happens when you hang around DC, or even live a long life. The real difference is that Trump is a salesman, Hillary is not. I know he's all bullshit, but many voters aren't very sophisticated. He kept ti simple, told them what they wanted to hear and closed the deal. He also was masterful at controlling the media. Nearly every day for six months he had the headline. She never went bold to grab the headlines and instead the whole campaign was answering Trump. I've been through many elections and my opinion is that with the right candidate we could have taken the whole enchilada. The problem is largely a media one, but that's a given and as long as people watch it it's important to come to grips with controlling it, not just buying ads. All in all I think she was the best we had because we haven't bee grooming new talent. Bernie reminded me of William Jennings Bryan and his "Cross of Gold" speech. The sad thing is that a lot of people will suffer and some will die because of the Trump regime so I am really pissed at third party voters. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

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i would like to apologize to the bernie supporters [View all] okieinpain Dec 2016 OP

You're good in my book, my dear okieinpain! CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2016 #1

This message was self-deleted by its author Maven Dec 2016 #2

On "supporters:" Holding a grudge against populations is the antithesis of effective politics. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #5

Can't disagree with anything you said. Maven Dec 2016 #42

There aree no "Bernie or Busters here, so please stop hat p ing on it. It reads like sour grapes. hedda_foil Dec 2016 #154

Sorry, but I disagree. One only needs to look around this particular forum and... George II Dec 2016 #179

I was a Clinton delegate to the DNC Gothmog Dec 2016 #157

Thank you for the factual information - HRC did wonder jump pulling off convention while Justice Dec 2016 #184

I doubt that the bernie or bust-ers exist in any great numbers dionysus Dec 2016 #162

Really? lastone Dec 2016 #17

Well said. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #27

Wow, the irony. Maven Dec 2016 #44

Check myself, hilarious! lastone Dec 2016 #59

Exactly! green917 Dec 2016 #71

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc. The go-to fallacy in place of supporting evidence. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #141

Yes, check yourself. Maven Dec 2016 #86

+1 jack_krass Dec 2016 #45

You're arguing that Clinton lost voters because she didn't apologize that Bernie lost? BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #57

Re-read what I said lastone Dec 2016 #66

No, it's not "obvious." BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #85

I realize bias such as yours forces us to hold others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves LanternWaste Dec 2016 #142

As if Sanders wouldn't have been skewered mercilessly. Hillary stayed completely away from . . . brush Dec 2016 #101

Quick questions GeoWilliam750 Dec 2016 #126

I'll say this brush Dec 2016 #135

And how many times does it have to be repeated........ Amaril Dec 2016 #151

Of course I read it. After seeing what the repugs did with the non-issue of emails . . . brush Dec 2016 #153

Let's be honest here. The issue isn't the actual things that Republicans say, it's how a candidate Exilednight Dec 2016 #161

We're talking about Sanders' baggage not Obama or Bill brush Dec 2016 #163

And exactly what baggage would that be? Exilednight Dec 2016 #164

You seem very well informed regarding GeoWilliam750 Dec 2016 #168

You forgot to add this: George II Dec 2016 #173

No. I am not in the least bit sarcastic GeoWilliam750 Dec 2016 #176

Well you won't get "what is perceived as horrible" from me. There are just too many..... George II Dec 2016 #180

Come on. You have to know some of this stuff brush Dec 2016 #174

This is all well known, and hardly "brutal" GeoWilliam750 Dec 2016 #175

So you were playing dumb before? You knew this baggage existed all along. brush Dec 2016 #185

"But I wouldn't say his supporters deserve an apology." LovingA2andMI Dec 2016 #35

Nope, I don't put you into any box at all. Maven Dec 2016 #48

Nobody has claimed we deserve an apology green917 Dec 2016 #72

Great. nt Maven Dec 2016 #87

'Many', 'some', 'not all', sure is nice not to have to back that smear up with facts or real numbers AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #84

Stating that a candidate's supporters exploited a perceived weakness of his opponent Maven Dec 2016 #88

For what it's worth, I never expected an apology. AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #90

OK. Sorry if my framing was divisive. Maven Dec 2016 #91

The important thing now is to look toward overhaul of the Party. And soon. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #3

+1 n/t. okieinpain Dec 2016 #18

The Party doesn't need an overhaul. George II Dec 2016 #106

Losing a ton of ground each cycle makes it look like the party needs an overhaul. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #109

What "ton of ground" did we lose this cycle? We gained seats in both Houses AND.... George II Dec 2016 #112

We've been losing ground since 2008's peak. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #114

Yeah, because we win everywhere & every time we run a candidate... BlueProgressive Dec 2016 #129

But it needs some serious adjustment in leadership, messaging, KPN Dec 2016 #137

Without Major changes, the Party will become a 3rd party in a two-party system. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #147

Thanks. closeupready Dec 2016 #4

This Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #6

Very nice of you. The quicker the past is left to be the past and we move forward all NRaleighLiberal Dec 2016 #7

I never had a grudge against anyone, I just wanted to see a democrat in the WH. I liked RKP5637 Dec 2016 #8

I think people ignore that Hillary had considerable baggage on the left. immoderate Dec 2016 #63

and a lot of it was carried by the same credulous people who thought obama was some pure, far-left, TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #78

I know a lot of lefties who didn't vote for her. Scruffy1 Dec 2016 #139

I knew a few lefties who felt this way Generic Other Dec 2016 #177

Yea, with a little help from the left, the FBI and the GOP leftofcool Dec 2016 #9

+1 La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #10

Really? closeupready Dec 2016 #12

yeah really. nt La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #13

Megadittos. Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #75

I'll add another really n/t kcr Dec 2016 #121

+ 2 cwydro Dec 2016 #61

Blaming "the left" FailureToCommunicate Dec 2016 #16

My sentiments exactly. As for the rest of my sentiments, I'll keep 'em to myself as they might.... Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #20

The "left"? So where does that put you? TonyPDX Dec 2016 #29

+1 SunSeeker Dec 2016 #37

Why would you thank me for that? Seems like it'd be better if Hillary Clinton had won el_bryanto Dec 2016 #46

My response precisely green917 Dec 2016 #81

+1 Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #74

I can't accept an apology elmac Dec 2016 #11

These weren't actually her emails anyway. That was a different fake issue. LisaM Dec 2016 #22

When you began treating other Democrats the same exact way? BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #32

I'm so tired of it all. LisaM Dec 2016 #41

Well said. riversedge Dec 2016 #156

Indeed radical noodle Dec 2016 #24

Thank you, elmac. and well said. n/t pnwmom Dec 2016 #25

Thank you. Maven Dec 2016 #50

Excellent points, and for that a well deserved Thank You (not apology). George II Dec 2016 #113

Thank you and K&R mountain grammy Dec 2016 #14

No worries, some will crybaby at your opinion. Rex Dec 2016 #15

no kidding. n/t. okieinpain Dec 2016 #19

I knew it would be an issue. It's all they had. But I didn't delude myself into thinking pnwmom Dec 2016 #23

Even Bernie dismissed the email issue as not central to winning. Rex Dec 2016 #26

It isn't amazing. Comey's letter bombs made the critical difference. pnwmom Dec 2016 #33

Sad that we live in a country where our elections are decided Rex Dec 2016 #38

Exactly. And over NOTHING. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #40

FBI had the emails since at least early October. They could have checked them all LisaL Dec 2016 #100

He must have known he had nothing before he issued the letter. SunSeeker Dec 2016 #123

What was in this "two feet of oppo research"? GeoWilliam750 Dec 2016 #170

Some examples from Newsweek reporter Kurt Eichenwald: pnwmom Dec 2016 #171

It bugs me that people like you don't realize that Bernie would have had pnwmom Dec 2016 #21

If a "2 foot thick file of opposition research" on Bernie existed, Hillary and DWS would TonyPDX Dec 2016 #34

Not true. Just as Bernie chose not to use the emails against Hillary, pnwmom Dec 2016 #49

Clinton and DWS used only what was needed. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #60

They stopped running against Sanders in April but Sanders attacked Dems till the convention. bettyellen Dec 2016 #64

+1 Paka Dec 2016 #94

There is no "if" about it. The RNC was armed and ready. pnwmom Dec 2016 #120

Not all people have to burn the Earth to win uponit7771 Dec 2016 #96

Sanders had LOTS more "baggage" than Clinton, except we just weren't allowed.... George II Dec 2016 #119

It would be so tremendously nice to finally put all of this to rest GeoWilliam750 Dec 2016 #172

Trump's oppo research on Sanders was said to be "brutal" Justice Dec 2016 #183

We can only imagine what they had in store for Martin O'Malley. StevieM Dec 2016 #150

They took a war hero's service -- John Kerry's -- and twisted it around pnwmom Dec 2016 #155

Excellent point...and here is another good one: What if Wes Clark had been the nominee in 2004? StevieM Dec 2016 #158

Move on everyone... It's important what is now not then... LakeArenal Dec 2016 #28

As you should green917 Dec 2016 #83

The email problem was not necessarily why Hillary was defeated.. INdemo Dec 2016 #30

What utter nonsense. Bernie "supporters" helped push the meme that everything & everyone.... Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #31

I agree..Hillary had more votes in the Democratic primary and the Presidential election...nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #39

And now it's like they want to be thanked and praised for their knife in our backs. BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #51

yup. La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #67

True, I though I found something false about the OP... they were scorched Earth post April uponit7771 Dec 2016 #97

I was a Sanders supporter Dopers_Greed Dec 2016 #36

Thank you. I don't think he deliberately did that, but he did pnwmom Dec 2016 #52

Word n/t otohara Dec 2016 #62

should have would have AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #43

This Broke My Heart McKim Dec 2016 #79

She had to choose someone she would actually be able to work with. LisaL Dec 2016 #99

hmm AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #103

Thank you! denvine Dec 2016 #47

Bernie supporters said everything Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #53

That is true. I also don't think it was just Bernie supporters saying this, and as one, I never JCanete Dec 2016 #125

OH PLEASE! montana_hazeleyes Dec 2016 #54

You're a class act okie Arazi Dec 2016 #55

Best wishes to you. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #56

Nice post Equinox Moon Dec 2016 #58

yes in oklahoma and yes it's a nightmare. n/t. okieinpain Dec 2016 #70

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #65

sorry, but i had to give credit were it was okieinpain Dec 2016 #69

This posts makes me think... NCTraveler Dec 2016 #108

It was the FBI's anti-Hillary people that actually made the problem what it was, not Hillary. ehrnst Dec 2016 #68

blah! Sanders was a one-dimensional candidate who stood no chance in the general. Buzz Clik Dec 2016 #73

so what do you think the ruskies had on bernie? cuz you know they had something.. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #76

As a Bernie supporter, I don't think the emails were the issue. Clinton has a long past. It's more JCanete Dec 2016 #77

Clinton hate is generational on the Right.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #98

totally true...generated in no small part by 30 years of this same shitty media. nt JCanete Dec 2016 #124

I never thought it would be a big deal HassleCat Dec 2016 #80

Exactly. Emails were over and done with until Comey wrote his letters. LisaL Dec 2016 #93

Bernie refused to let it be about personalities. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #82

Give it a freaking rest. Bernie had a big file on him too. LisaL Dec 2016 #89

... and the moon is made of green cheese... JudyM Dec 2016 #115

The Russians, FBI and proliferation of "fake news' etherealtruth Dec 2016 #92

Oh please...don't get me started... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #95

How about those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary, or the media still_one Dec 2016 #102

As it turns out ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #104

They voted their "conscience," Nance mcar Dec 2016 #105

Yep. 50 shades of told ya so. nt ucrdem Dec 2016 #110

Apologies are not about the recipients. okieinpain is mending wounds that need mending. hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #111

Mending wounds by saying ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #116

Still ignoring the fact that this election should have been KPN Dec 2016 #138

Yes, it should have been. Probably would have if not for Bernie's divisive anti-Dem campaign. DanTex Dec 2016 #149

NOT! Do you really believe the GOP wasn't going to raise the same KPN Dec 2016 #167

Personally GeoWilliam750 Dec 2016 #169

I hear you. Who can we trust anymore? KPN Dec 2016 #181

Divide and conquer GeoWilliam750 Dec 2016 #182

The irony in this is astounding. Nt NCTraveler Dec 2016 #107

Stand up thing to do. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #117

There was no "hillary's email problem". It was an attack by Russia upon the United States. baldguy Dec 2016 #118

Many thought the email would get her because she's corrupt, evidence would be found. betsuni Dec 2016 #122

Your apology is accepted. Yes, we were right - and ridiculed for it - but, I take no pleasure in that. Fuhrer-Elect tRump is a nightmare from which we may never wake up. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #127

I and my family (4 adults) were ardent Bernie supporters.... ReRe Dec 2016 #128

A nearly fictitious problem. Orsino Dec 2016 #130

Fuck that shit. Paladin Dec 2016 #131

Thank you - much appreciated. Now Bernie for 2020! Joe941 Dec 2016 #132

I don't apologize for exercising my voting rights as I see fit BainsBane Dec 2016 #133

As it was, Clinton mainly won in the slam dunk Dem states. BlueWI Dec 2016 #186

You forget one key group Sanders did not appeal to BainsBane Dec 2016 #187

BTW, I am a Black man. Maybe Sanders did make me white!! BlueWI Dec 2016 #188

10 years from now, trust me, no one will remember these damn emails. Sunlei Dec 2016 #134

There is absolutely no reason to apologize to any Sanders supporters Gothmog Dec 2016 #136

I backed Bernie in the primary. He said publicly that America was sick of hearing about the e-mails Mc Mike Dec 2016 #140

In my opinion neither was a great candidate. Scruffy1 Dec 2016 #143

It wasn't just the e-mails. Apology accepted, SMC22307 Dec 2016 #144

No need to apologize to me. I put the problem much more on the Corporate Press and harun Dec 2016 #145

Thanks, I HATE it when I'm right. joanbarnes Dec 2016 #146

As a Sanders supporter, I always thought the email "scandal" was bullshit Bucky Dec 2016 #148

Thank you budkin Dec 2016 #152

Thank you, that means a lot.. Raine Dec 2016 #159

You people are in for a nasty surprise. liquid diamond Dec 2016 #160

No. It's Bernie who needs to appologize to his supporters. R B Garr Dec 2016 #165

Don't want one. Don't need one. Iggo Dec 2016 #166

You are apologizing to Clinton critics about being "right" about a right-wing smear campaign? RelativelyJones Dec 2016 #178