dow up 500.

[unblock]

my opinion only, but i think the market will stabilize from here, although volatility will take weeks to gradually come back down.

from there, i think the markets will go up much more gradually before the end of the year.


assuming donnie doesn't go all smoot-hawley on us. you know he wants to!

[Roland99]

1. Now only 360. Incredibly volatile.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

34. Not really. Those look like large numbers but

you're looking at one or two percent.

[bathroommonkey76]

2. I hope it crashes

[unblock]

4. if you shorted the market, congrats.

if you just are wishing for a whole mess of pain for millions of american, the


if your goal is to bring down donnie, can we please find a way that minimizes the pain on the rest of us?

[bathroommonkey76]

8. The stock market is a gamble for anyone

I think I speak for me and the millions of other middle-class Americans who aren't invested in the market. I'm all for watching it crash and burn.

I said the same thing about the 2008 crash.

[MichMary]

12. Most people who are employed have a 401k

Do you have any idea what you are wishing on them??

[bathroommonkey76]

14. That isn't true.

"Nearly half of families have no retirement account savings at all," the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) reported, even in savings vehicles such as IRAs and 401(k)s. The median for U.S. families is just $5,000, and the median for families with some savings is $60,000.

And, according to a 2016 GOBankingRates survey, 35 percent of all adults in the U.S. have only several hundred dollars in their savings accounts and 34 percent have zero savings.



https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/13/heres-how-many-americans-have-nothing-at-all-saved-for-retirement.html

[MichMary]

17. Oh, well, in that case I guess it's okay

to wish the rest of us into poverty.

Actually, it sounds a lot like sour grapes to me.

[bathroommonkey76]

18. Naw, lady

I just like to laugh at the ones who are playing the rich man's game.

Most of my money is being saved in my savings accounts. Why would I want to be part of a rigged system? Also, anarchy is fun to watch. This go around I'm hoping it is bigger than the 2008 crash.

[MichMary]

21. Yeah, my parents didn't believe in the stock market

Died pretty much broke. My uncle bought a few shares of the company he worked for, waaay back in the '40's or '50's. The company was 3M. Guess how they ended up.

[bathroommonkey76]

22. My parent's didn't believe in the stock market either

Guess how they ended up? I can say it was nowhere near 'broke'.

The sign of status in today's world is bent on money. I'm content with my banking and savings accounts - I don't have to pretend I'm something I'm not. When you die you'll pass all of that money down to your relatives who will speak highly of you, right? lol

[MichMary]

25. Nope. I always say

if I die with a nickel in my pocket, I won't have lived as well as I could have.

I intend to live well between now and--then.

[unblock]

32. ha! my mother always says her goal is to die penniless!

but to somehow not be penniless until then!

[panader0]

30. 32% have 401ks.....

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/19/does-the-average-american-have-a-401k.aspx

[onenote]

7. I'm curious -- do you also hope that unemployment soars

and tens if not hundreds of thousands of people lose their jobs?

Because if your wish for the market to crash is based on a belief it will sour people on Trump, having lots of folks become unemployed would achieve the same goal.

But at what cost? I will not wish financial harm on people, and while the wealthiest get the most benefit from stock market gains and can weather the downturns, there are still millions of people who have 401Ks and other safety net investments tied up with the stock market.

[bathroommonkey76]

11. There are also millions of Americans who aren't invested in the stock market

Well, that's what they get for playing a rich man's game.

Unemployment? Pffft.

If that's what it takes for people to wake up to the shitshow that's surrounding them then, yes.

[MichMary]

13. Oh, good grief.

[onenote]

20. That's a polite version of my reaction....

[Hortensis]

58. Here in the deep south we'd say, "Bless his heart."

Your insertions of rationality and information are appreciated by most, I'm sure.

[Downtown Hound]

23. We get it.

You're a sour, hateful, and bitter individual. Your point has been made. You can stop now.

[bathroommonkey76]

24. Keep punching at the air, Cheech

You're the one who has his/her money invested in a rigged system. LOL

[unblock]

31. just so you know, who exactly do you think will win if the stock market really craters?

the rich people who still have money either because they got our quickly or because they have other valuable assets will come in and scoop everything up at fire sale prices.

stock market crashes burn *some* of the the rich people, then the other rich people feed on the carcasses. in other words, it actually just adds to the concentration of wealth problem.

meanwhile, it's quite painful for many other people as businesses lay people off and retirement plans get crushed.

is the stock market a rich man's game? sure, fine.
is the stock market a rigged system? ok, i'll even buy that to some extent.


but you're rooting for something that only makes things even worse.

[bathroommonkey76]

36. My grandmother lived through the Great Depression.

The stories she passed along to me will never be forgotten- so I'm very aware of how the poor and middle class would be affected if the stock market crashed. My dad's side of the family never really cared for Wall Street after that happened. Know what they did? They built a farm that catered to consumers in North Carolina. We farmed tobacco, cotton, and produce for everyone in this area. My family are self-made millionaires. We have never been dependent on 401Ks, or Wall Street. LOL To this day we sell produce at the NC Farmer's Market. Our really good tobacco days are behind us now. But most of us saved our money we made through our blood, sweat, and tears.

Rich people have been feeding off carcusses of the poor for centuries.

People get laid off everyday from companies that don't give a fuck about their workers.

I'm rooting for a change in mindset of those who believe in this rigged system.

Do you honestly think EVERY Democratic Party voter out there has a 401K, or lives in a stock market bubble? In today's world the common people live paycheck to paycheck. They don't give a fuck about a stock market crash. And if they lose their job they have to go find another shitty one to takes its place b/c they can't survive in today's world without a check coming in for their families.

[Downtown Hound]

41. Every point you made is valid (well most of them)

And you're wishing for the stock market to crash on them only makes everything worse, not better. Me thinks you don't really give a damn about the working man. Well, maybe you do, but not more than you hate the stock market, and you're willing to sacrifice their well being just to experience a moment of satisfaction.

Seems a tad bit on the petty side to me.

[bathroommonkey76]

44. Your assumptions about me are about as wrong as your avatar

I can tell you right now me and my family have done more for our local community than most people on these boards. Our donations to the food bank and homeless shelters far exceed normal contributions from the Fortune 500 companies that bask in the glow of our landscapes.

You can call me all the names you wish - it's not going to change my thoughts of the broken and manipulated system that is the stock market.

[Downtown Hound]

50. My avatar? LOL.

And I'm just going by your own words here. Other than that I have no assumptions about you except what you have said on this board.

[standingtall]

37. maybe not as many retirement plans would be getting crushed

when the stock market crashes if businesses didn't con workers into to believing 401k's were a reliable alternative to pension plans.

[bathroommonkey76]

39. This is so fuckin true. +10000000000000000000000000

[Downtown Hound]

40. Probably true. And also irrelevant.

The bottom line is people do have their retirements invested in their 401k, for better or for worse. Wishing them ruin and misery simply because you don't like the system are not values that are befitting of liberals.

[standingtall]

42. Not wishing them ruin but cheerleading a bad system is not

doing them any favors in the long term. Keep going on rooting for that bad system and it will not be long before republicans get their wish and tie social security to the stock market too.

[Downtown Hound]

43. Not wanting it to crash and cause mass suffering is not the same thing as rooting for it. n/t

[standingtall]

47. The stock market is a big casino

it is ultimately going to crash from time to time regardless of what your wishes are.

[Downtown Hound]

52. And if and when it does

I actually feel for the people who are hurt by it. I'm getting that's a foreign concept to you and a few others, but it's called having compassion.

[standingtall]

54. I get it

but what you do not get is that it will hurt more people in the long run if something doesn't happen to reverse course.

[Downtown Hound]

57. The answer isn't hoping for or celebrating a crash.

All that will happen is the poor will suffer and fascists like Trump will come in and claim to be the voice of the dispossessed and manipulate their anger into something even more destructive. You know, kind of like what already happened.

[unblock]

45. There are plenty of rich people with wealth far in excess of any puny retirement plan they have.

Those are the people who will scoop up everything after a stock market crash.

[standingtall]

49. Exactly like I said big casino

The people who run the casino are always making money even when most of everyone else is losing it. Rich people run the casino on Wall Street so they will always make money off of it.

[BeyondGeography]

46. Pension plans. How nice.

Where do I get one?

Defined benefit pensions are indeed superior but they started disappearing 30 years ago. The Average Joe wasn’t conned; he had no choice in the matter.

What country do you live in?

[standingtall]

48. Some people were absolutely conned

Workers will get pension plans again once they get the backbone to do what got them in the first place. Organize and fight back.

[BeyondGeography]

51. Ah, nostalgia

Such fun.

Tell ya what, next time I’m in the home office with my Trumper Republican owners why don’t join me and we’ll teach them how to sing The Internationale. It should be all downhill from there.

[standingtall]

53. some times nostalgia is a good thing

those who take benefits away from workers are counting on workers forgetting about when things were better.

[MarcA]

55. Many people still have pension plans. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

56. Just how common are defined benefit plans?

Not very. The percentage of workers in the private sector whose only retirement account is a defined benefit pension plan is now 4%, down from 60% in the early 1980s. About 14% of companies offer a combination of both types.

Meanwhile, the few employers that still offer traditional pensions - typically industries with a strong union presence, such as the airline and auto sectors – have been working overtime to cut deals to either reduce or eliminate their plans.

http://money.cnn.com/retirement/guide/pensions_basics.moneymag/index7.htm

[Downtown Hound]

38. LOL. I actually don't own any stock.

I just don't wish financial ruin on my fellow Americans. Many of them worked hard all their lives and have their retirement invested in their 401k. Sorry, but, I just don't take any satisfaction in their misery. But then again, I'm not an asshole.

[NCTraveler]

28. .

[yallerdawg]

3. I heard a hedge fund owner who cashed in his "shorts" today describe these ups and downs...

as very typical of "a bear market" similar to 2008-2009, and went over all the "broken floors" on the S&P 500.

He was extremely bearish - and the CNBC people were glum.

[unblock]

5. there are indeed a good number of technical signals that suggest this is a turning point.

but such signals are hardly 100%.

the fed is unlikely to raise interest rates by more than 2-3 quarter points this year, and if anything will take it even slower if the economy and/or stock market don't cooperate.

i don't see where a genuine bear market comes in just yet. for the time being, this appears to be just a correction to me.

[yallerdawg]

9. I hope this is just a bump in the road.

I hope this was just a quick slap in the face for that 'someone' claiming he is the Stock Market Messiah!

I hope this isn't just a repeat of what we get when R's are in charge!

I hope this isn't the expected and anticipated economic annihilation we warned about if those dumbass deplorables somehow managed to get that jackass in the White House!

[unblock]

10. donnie's turning the presidency into a joke has not yet caused that kind of damage.

i'm waiting for him to get a real trade war going. that'll bring the recession on.

[yallerdawg]

16. When our low wages can't buy us cheap goods anymore...

that is going to be truly depressing!

At least this Administration is making headway on openings in the 'migrant farm worker' category.

[Awsi Dooger]

6. The wild intraday swings don't suggest stabilization to me

Conflicting variables and opinions.

I'm mostly watching. Holding some cash in case we go lower.

It is encouraging that a Friday close was to the upside. Fridays during panic mode sometimes are the worst plummets of all.

[unblock]

15. this was a good upswing. i'm not suggesting the wild intraday swings will go away quickly.

i think the next couple of months will be quite bumpy.

i'm just suggesting that where we're at now, give or take a little, is not an unreasonable place to be in another two months.

[NRaleighLiberal]

19. it really has been something to behold

at 62, retired and dependent upon what we have in our IRA retirement accounts, it is mind boggling (and my financial adviser just advises me to really not watch - her favorite saying is that the market is not political and has no heart and soul. It is what it is, and does what it does....she really has helped us manage our retirement well. As volatile as things have been, "it's only a flesh wound" (so far!)

For those wishing it would crash and burn (one in this thread in particular), that is incredibly tiny thinking, there.

[lpbk2713]

26. Time to toggle from "blame the black guy" mode.

Time to praise Rump again.

[XRubicon]

29. I am calling it, the Dow will level off at 22,000

Billy Ray Valentine. Capricorn.

[unblock]

33. get back out there and sell! sell! sell!

[XRubicon]

35. This sort of thing happens to me all the time

Last edited Fri Feb 9, 2018, 06:23 PM - Edit history (1)

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ETA Link: https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21736561-one-study-suggests-insiders-profited-even-global-financial-crisis-another?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/insidertradinghasbeenrifeonwallstreetacademicsconcludeintheknow