Rec if you pay a higher effective tax rate than Mitt Romney

[scheming daemons]

In the one tax return of his that we've seen, he paid 13.9%.

last year my effective rate was 23%.

I'm an Obama voter that gives a greater percentage of what I earn to the government than Mitt Romney does. He's more of a moocher than me.

I'm betting the overwhelming majority of people pay a higher effective rate than Mitt, especially when you consider payroll taxes like SS and Medicare that even the working poor pay.

[seabeyond]

1. i was gonna just post this. paying higher rate than romney and sure majority on du are,

and here we are all a part of the at lest.... 47%

i still believe harry. i think he said at loud what he has been told quietly and probably a damn good reason he said it out loud. harry is not careless.

[tosh]

2. I've never been called a deadbeat before.

This is a first for me.

I think I'll just hop on over to ActBlue and donate.

[rsweets]

3. +1

[porphyrian]

4. I don't know, he won't show his fucking taxes. n/t

[spinbaby]

5. Yep

Two working professionals in this household, working more than full-time hours. I'm not sure what our effective tax rate was last year, but it sure as hell was more than Mitt's.

[brewens]

6. I'm about the same as Willard actually. I'd assume he's got a lot off the books

somewhere that makes his actually lower than what he's shown. I'm just counting federal effective rate. You add in the payroll taxes and it's much higher.

[ananda]

7. I pay around 15 to 17% I think.

I know it's at least 15%.

However.. it's the percentage in relation to income that counts.

14% of 250m is a lot different than 14% of much much much
much much less.

The problem with out tax system is the weight of the tax on
those with lower incomes, which is a much heavier burden than
the tax on those with higher incomes.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

8. Bear in mind, folks, that if you work for a living....

You've got a 7.65% tax rate (most years) from Social Security and Medicare alone. If you live in a city with municipal income taxes, you could be paying an additional 1-3% on top of that. And THEN you've got your federal and state income taxes.

So a lot of people are closer to paying 13% than they think. Remember, Mittens doesn't pay Social Security and Medicare taxes on his capital gains and dividends, and in many municipalities, income from these sources are exempt, as well. So you're miles ahead of Little Lord Fauntleroy right out of the gate.

[nevergiveup]

9. This freeloader/Obama voter paid 24% last year.

[tolumnia]

10. damn right I pay more than Mittens does

I do not know what my effective tax rate is, but it is surely higher than 14%.

[SaveAmerica]

11. That's my family also scheming, we are less of a moocher than Romney

[SaveAmerica]

12. Also, if they didn't take so much in taxes we could afford to go on a trip (maybe London? Isreal?)

[TBF]

32. Same here - it's not that I mind paying taxes if it is to provide

a safety net. But do we really need more military than the rest of the world COMBINED? That is what makes me mad.

[SaveAmerica]

36. Yes, I'd reroute taxes that are going to wars and give some to Vets and the VA

[LittleGirl]

13. 23% here eom

[ahg]

14. I paid a higher tax rate than Mitt. SHOW US YOUR RETURNS!!!!!!!

[OnionPatch]

15. We paid 24% last year.

I've paid taxes every year of my adult life. Never voted once for a Republican and sure as hell won't be changing that trend anytime soon. (Probably not in my lifetime.)

[spooky3]

16. And I pay it on ALL of my income, unlike Thurston.

[Jennicut]

17. 15%.

Mooching Rombot.

[pnwmom]

18. He's definitely more of a moocher I am, the louse. n't

[tweeternik]

19. I paid 20.5% last year in federal income tax on income of about

.6% of Rmoney's!! Taking some of the discretionary income I have left and donating it to President Obama's reelection effort!!

[mainstreetonce]

20. I pay at least double

Of the rate Mitt pays.

[yardwork]

21. Higher than zero, you mean? rec.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. My state taxes alone are more than Romney's effective federal tax rate. n/t

[hamsterjill]

23. I pay a much higher rate than Mitt.

And I also know of several people personally who have net worths of at least $5 million, and they each paid a lower percentage of tax than I did in 2011. Capital gains, etc.

I'm sick of the inequity! I'm even more sick of the Republicans that I know who are in the same boat that *I* am in, and yet think it's okay that the super rich don't pay their fair share.

[Shrike47]

24. I paid at a higher rate than Mitt and on ALL of my income.

[Lunabelle]

25. Middle class and single

You bet I pay a higher rate than Rmoney.

[Bucky]

64. Well, at $250,000 per year,,,

Yoyu should be doing well enough afford a high rate.

[LibDemAlways]

26. Between Fed. and State Income taxes I pay over 25%. Add in

payroll and property taxes and I'm at about 35. And I'm trying to put a child through the public university here in CA to the tune of almost 20K a year alone in tuition and fees - never mind living expenses. This after my husband took a 40% cut in pay after he was laid off when the Bush economy tanked and he was desperate for a job - any job.

My elderly mother gets by on SS and a tiny pension. True she pays no income tax because she has no income to be taxed. However, she pays property and sales taxes (8.25 in this county) every day.

There is not one person in this country who does not pay taxes, and for a wealthy tax dodger like Rmoney
to claim otherwise in an effort to stoke the fires of class division is dishonest and cynical beyond belief.

[Z_California]

27. I'm one of the "moochers"

My family paid no federal income tax last year because of our income level.

Since I am self-employed, I pay about 15% self-employment tax (both sides of Ss/Medicare). Between that and sales taxes, property taxes, and gasoline taxes I had an effective rate of about 18%.

I wonder how many of Rmoney's 47% are retirees who paid into the SS/Medicare system their whole careers?

[EnviroBat]

28. I'm around 31%

And this asshole is paying 20% less than me, (if he's paying anything at all)...

[librechik]

29. Oh come on. Everybody except Exxon pays a higher rate than Mitt. It's perfectly legal.

And that is the crime.

[abelenkpe]

50. + 1000 nt

[TBF]

31. I checked turbo tax - our eff rate 20.29% for 2010 -

still sorting out 2011 but will file by 10/15 as required.

[joeglow3]

33. This thread makes me feel EXTREMELY poor at 6 figures.

I though my wife and I (with three kids) were doing great with taxable income of $120,000. However, our effective rate was less than 10%. I was surprised with many of the numbers - 15%, 20%, 24% and even someone at 31%. In crunching those numbers, assuming NO dependents and no deductions more than the standard deduction, these people are making:

In single:

15% - 123,000
20% - 190,000
24% - 275,000
31% - 800,000

If married:

15% - 230,000
20% - 320,000
24% - 450,000
31% - 1,200,000

I HAVE to assume people are confusing "marginal" with "effective."

[TBF]

52. I'm not confused

I took the effective rate off turbo tax (there's a summary page that gives it to you). We don't make 320,000 but we are in the 6 figures so I'm not sure how you are "crunching" those numbers.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

80. I was wondering the same thing

Effective rate is taxes paid divided by AGI, not divided by taxable income.

[joshcryer]

98. Where are you getting those numbers?

I got mine from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rate_schedule_(federal_income_tax)

[mountain grammy]

34. collecting my social security now, paying no taxes, so I'm officially a "freeloader"

But I paid plenty when I worked.. certainly a higher percentage than Rmoney. Oh, right, I paid payroll tax too.. what the capital gains tax scam steals from us. If you paid taxes, Rmoney, show us!!

[mwooldri]

35. What is a higher effective tax rate anyway?

What taxes to include? If it is just federal income tax, then our family is 7.5%. State income tax only is 4.9%.

If you look at things such as SS and Medicare contributions as well then I estimate at least 17% is my effective tax on earned income in 2011.

Of course this rate will go up when our children turn 18...

[former9thward]

37. Most people, including those posting on this thread, don't know what their effective rate is.

People are posting so-called effective rates but are not posting what their income is. If they posted their income doing the basic math and the irs tax rates and standard deductions would be pretty easy. Some people are also throwing everything in with state, property, gas, etc taxes and calling it their "effective' rate.

[jeff47]

43. Because state, property, gas etc is in their effective rate

When we're talking about "taxes".

If Mitt said "federal income taxes", then you'd have a point. But he just said "taxes".

[former9thward]

46. Yes, but people are comparing that with Romney's 13.9% federal rate.

Compare apples with apples not with oranges, pears and dates.

[jeff47]

55. That's because that is his rate.

"Payroll taxes" aren't collected from his paycheck, because he doesn't have one. Instead, they're collected on his income taxes.

I expect sales, property and gas taxes wouldn't move that number up much.

Which leaves state taxes. And since Mitt hasn't bothered to release them, I think assuming 0% is fair.

[former9thward]

56. I don't think you know too much about the tax system.

If someone is paying 13.9% on the federal level they can't pay 0% at the state level.

[harmonicon]

59. He didn't say that was on the federal level.

He left it incredibly vague on purpose - I'm guessing it's almost entirely capital gains.

[former9thward]

69. He didn't have to say it.

He released the return. He paid 3 million on 21.6 in adjusted gross income. http://www.mittromney.com/learn/mitt/tax-return/2010/wmr-adr-return

[jeff47]

62. I'd like to introduce you to Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota...

Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming.

They have no state personal income tax. But you know that, right? After all, you are claiming to be an expert in state taxes.

Now, MA has a state income tax of 5.3% on most income and Mitt claims he lives there. Are you now going to claim 5.3% makes a MASSIVE difference?

Or are you assuming that all state income taxes use tax brackets like federal income taxes? Perhaps there's some super-secret 120% rate for people who make as much as Mitt that would suddenly make state income taxes a relevant defense for Mitt?

We could figure out what Mitt's MA income tax rate is but he won't release his returns. So why give him the benefit of the doubt?

[former9thward]

70. Where did I claim to be an "expert" on state taxes?

Please post where I did that or retract your attempt to BS. BTW those states you mention (which are not relevant to this discussion, but you know that, have other taxes for their revenue). I am not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. I just like accuracy. I guess you don't give a damn about that. So go ahead and compare apples with refrigerators if that gets you off.

[jeff47]

90. "I don't think you know too much about the tax system."

It's the subject of your post.

BTW those states you mention (which are not relevant to this discussion, but you know that, have other taxes for their revenue)

Except the body of your post only makes sense if you are claiming all states have graduated income taxes.

So....either your post makes absolutely no sense, or it's quite relevant to what you were saying.

I am not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. I just like accuracy

I am accurately stating the amount Mitt has stated he payed in state income taxes. $0. Because he refuses to say anything else.

So go ahead and compare apples with refrigerators if that gets you off.

Or you could use this thing called "Math" and figure out that adding state income taxes doesn't invalidate the underlying argument.

[former9thward]

91. Everyone sees the games you are playing.

Now go outside and play. Exercise is good for young minds and bodies.

[jeff47]

92. So....you were lying in your earlier post then?

'Cause you did try to pass yourself off as an expert.

Or you gonna keep hiding behind the "pat on the head" bullshit?

[TBF]

53. I took it off the line in the turbo tax summary that says "effective rate"

but I'm not sure if Turbo Tax would be interpreting it weirdly? I assumed they'd know what an effective rate is.

[former9thward]

57. I said most posters.

Again, people are not stating their income. If people's effective tax rate is really what they are posting here then we have some very wealthy DUers posting in this thread.

[TBF]

79. I know we have a lot of retired on here -

I've done some surveys on this previously. May have sold a home and have money in savings (which will be depleted once they reach the medical conditions phase) ... and also professional folks who have pretty high incomes. Some may be confused but there is a lot of diversity on DU.

[former9thward]

83. You are probably right.

I guess I just read a whole lot of posts from people who are not doing too well in various threads.

[TBF]

103. Sure -

we have bunches of folks making under 25K - I've seen that in polls on here as well. They are probably not as likely to answer this question about effective rate because they are filling out a simple form and don't get the info we get with programs like Turbo Tax (or from the folks who do our taxes if we have small businesses, etc...).

I still think the most damning thing is that Romney will not release his taxes. Folks can rationalize a lot if they like someone, so the fact that he thinks it is a deal breaker is a big red flag.

[joshcryer]

97. Eh, I'm not. I make a little over 35k.

edit: I guess it's closer to 4-5%

[Walk away]

38. 20% and I am a real Job Creator!

Where are those tax returns Mitt?????

[Hutzpa]

39. I feel insulted by that comment from him

but I will show my vengeance at the polls.

[barbtries]

40. yes i believe i do.

and nearly that much again to the state in which i live.

[Ganja Ninja]

41. I'm pretty sure I do.

I'm in the 20 something percent range not counting my Medicare and Social Security taxes.

[Aviation Pro]

42. 21% and I'm a job creator....

....fuck that goddamn splooge.

Release your fucking tax returns, fucknut.

[hedgehog]

44. And I did my own taxes, too!

[aikoaiko]

45. Deductions brought mine down to 6.5%.

[Jankyn]

47. 27% ... plus ...

... my spouse and I pay an additional "gay tax" because the federal government doesn't recognize our marriage. Last year, it amounted to about 5%, bringing the total to 32%.

Not complaining, mind you; we're doing well when so many aren't, and I've got no problem with paying our fair share. I just want everybody to do so.

[abelenkpe]

48. We paid over 30 percent

We are both lucky enough to have well paying jobs, and don't own a home.

Who knows what Mitt paid? I find it ironic he would accuse anyone of not paying paying their fair share in taxes when his whole desire to become president is designed to make sure Mitt Romney pays less in taxes. The same Mitt Romney who has not released his tax returns and has previously boasted of paying nothing.

Anyway, among the people I know his statement seems completely false. The Obama voters I know are all successful people making good money paying their own way supporting families and paying taxes while those who voted for McCain and will vote for Romney collect some form of assistance: unemployment, food stamps, welfare, disability, social security and are so overwhelmed with bigotry and misinformation that they vote against their own self interest. The teaparty and republicans I know honestly believe that only liberals live off assistance and never see their own use of such programs as proof otherwise. They truly believe that cutting those programs means cutting those programs for everyone but themselves. They are that deluded.

[JDPriestly]

105. I'm working on the Obama campaign. Lots of retired people but all paying their taxes.

No scufflaws. I'm on Social Security. Others, however, are on pensions. They have more money and pay higher taxes. I'm happy with what I have. Is Romney?

[abelenkpe]

108. Thank you!

For working on the presidents campaign! We really need Obama to be reelected. And to win back the house.

I really don't see social security as an entitlement despite republican efforts to smear that program. I wish pensions were still the norm. 401ks are a poor substitute.

[Fearless]

49. 21%

[Blue Owl]

51. A kick, a rec, and a hearty "FUCK YOU" to Smirk Jerkstain

n/t

[Scootaloo]

54. I don't make enough money to owe income tax

It's still sliced out of each paycheck, of course! But in the meantime, my life revolves around a bank account of $0, after rent, food, other expenses. My hours are rigged to have me work the maximum possible without garnering benefits. I could really stand a trip to the dentist, but that's just not going to happen. That refund check goes straight to debts I already owed due to being the working poor.

Maybe Mittens pays a higher rate than I do - don't know, he won't release his returns! He doesn't seem to suffer for it though, so he can stop with the fucking sniveling.

[harmonicon]

58. Most people do just because of SS and Medicare, don't they? (nt)

[SickOfTheOnePct]

87. Effective tax rate normally means federal effective income tax rate

Not the all of the taxes combined into one rate.

I think the confusion is why so many people are saying they have an effective rate of over 25%.

For example, it's impossible to have an effective federal income tax rate when the top marginal rate is 35%.

[ellie]

60. I believe I am at 28%.

[whathehell]

65. Self and spouse at 38%.

Almost 3 times what Rmoney pays, without a FRACTION of his income.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

88. How can you have an effective federal income tax rate of 38%

When the top marginal rate is 35%?

[jeff47]

93. Payroll taxes + state taxes, perhaps? (nt)

[SickOfTheOnePct]

95. Probably, but if that's the case

we're comparing apples to oranges, which is useless.

[JDPriestly]

106. What matters to me about Romney's statement in his speech is that, although he had lots of money,

he seems unhappy about having to pay taxes when others who have a tiny, tiny fraction of his money pay none. The greed that demonstrates. The dependence on money that shows. That is what is disconcerting to me.

I have relatively little, relatively very, very little, and yet, I am thankful for every day of my life, thankful for living in a country in which I can speak my conscience, my mind, pretty much anonymously and freely, if I wish.

Why does Romney find the fact that people like me who live in contentment on very, very little income (no travel, no extras, no restaurants -- but enjoying what we have) so troublesome. Why doesn't he find pleasure in sharing. When I was working, and I saw the homeless and the impoverished and the children and elderly around me, I felt love for them and wanted to share. Lifting someone else's burden by paying a little more in taxes is a small price to pay for letting another person live in dignity.

I just do not understand Romney's view of the world, the bankers' view of the world. Life is so precious. Why is Romney with his three or more houses, with his ability to go and do what he wants, concerned about paying a good share of his money to make sure his society works. He does not pay taxes on the money he donates to charity. So the more he donates to others, the needy, the lower his tax rate. He should be rejoicing in the fact that he can help others.

That is what bothers me about Romney's statements in the tape -- the fact that he so resents having to share a relatively small percentage of his money. When I was working one thing I enjoyed was having the discretionary income to donate. Romney has that. He should be grateful for what he has and not worried about how much other people pay in taxes.

I worked to raise money for a homeless project for some years. There is no way that most of those charities can survive, can do their job, without tax money. As generous as people are, they do not commonly give to the homeless what is needed to keep people alive and in shelter, so the government is the donor of last resort. It is sad that we have so many homeless people in our society, but if Romney were president, if his philosophy with its disdain for the poor prevailed, we would have many, many more. Shame on Mitt Romney. Shame on these greedy Republicans.

Let's be thankful when we can help each other.

[whathehell]

99. I guess I made a mistake. My bad.

My spouse does the taxes. I thought it was 38%, I guess it's 35 %.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

100. Effective rate, not marginal

To have a 35% effective rate, you would have zero deductions, zero exemptions, anything.

Seriously, not trying to pick on you, it's just that we're all trying to see if we pay a higher effective federal income tax rate than Romney, but we're not even all calculating it the same way.

I paid 15.9% effective rate last year, yes, more than Romney, but nothing like the exhorbitant rates that people are saying here.

[whathehell]

109. Okay..This is the latest I've gotten.

Mr. Whathehell says his effective federal tax -- minus deductions for SS or Medicare ("payroll taxes&quot

is about 28%...How's that sound?

[benld74]

61. 28 -

[Bucky]

63. I'm coming in at 21-22%. But that's not counting my secret accounts in the Caymans and Bermuda.

[KauaiK]

66. 2011 rate for me - 30%

AND I was unemployed for 4 months.

[Bozita]

67. I pay a higher rate than Mitt Romney

[Duppers]

68. hell yes.

25% here.

How many corporations pay that?

[Barack_America]

71. I paid more and I didn't have too!

I received an educational stipend for which no W2 was generated. Thus the IRS had no record of my income, but I paid my 15% out of my duty as an American citizen!

[goclark]

72. Payed more than Rmoney

[DFW]

73. I guess!

Through last September, I paid the max Federal income tax rate of 35% After that, I went up to 50%.

[ecstatic]

74. 25 percent!! nt

[Laelth]

75. I certainly do. k&r n/t

-Laelth

[madrchsod]

76. i pay the same as mittens...0

yup! i`m sponging off the government..social security and medicare. i also get a tax break on my property tax. of course i take advantage of every privilege given to me because i`m over 65!

[Squinch]

77. State, federal and payroll? Oh, yeah. Lots more than Mitt.

[Skittles]

78. aw HELL FUCKING YES

YOU KNOW IT, SCHEMING DAEMONS

[Cha]

81. I can't Rec it 'cause

I'm Retired..but, am loving Mittantoinette's Boca Raton moment.

Ya'll know what that translates to in English, right? Mouth of the Rat.

[eqfan592]

82. Over 18% here. (nt)

[Cha]

84. Mittantoinette..

h/t http://theobamadiary.com/

[bluestate10]

85. My rate is about 30%, give or take 2%.

And I don't mind paying a cent of it. I consider it the price for being part of a working society where rule of law mostly works.

[TheOther95Percent]

86. Between Federal and State Income, Social Security, Medicare, and Property Taxes

I pay 38% of my income in taxes. That does not include any sales tax that I'm sure equals another percentage point or two. Fuck Money Boo Boo.

[bhikkhu]

89. I'm around 28% in total taxes - state, property, payroll, and miscellaneous

...though I'm "working poor", its a little high because of property tax (which I'm happy to pay as it funds the schools)

[McCamy Taylor]

94. Me!

[joshcryer]

96. edit: ahh, mine is closer to 4-5% going by this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivity_in_United_States_income_tax

I make about $36k so it's around there? I can't be bothered to check, heh.

[lapfog_1]

101. much more

and even though I make a very good salary... I don't even qualify as middle class by Mitt...

[Canuckistanian]

102. "that we've seen" is the operative phrase here...

FSM knows, It could be worse.

[zentrum]

104. Have paid a higher rate than Rawmoney

....all my adult life.

[Sirveri]

107. I paid 1/6 of my income in property taxes, plus 9% to sales taxes.

correction 1/6.