General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm about to become wildly unpopular ...
... but I've run out of fucks to give.
When I joined DU , I came here to discuss the political events of the day with fellow Democrats. That included commiserating over our political losses as an impetus to doing better, and being more unified in accomplishing our common goals.
It was about GOTV, inspiring each other to push against the powers-that-be that are determined to keep us down. It was about recognizing that we could change the world if we stood together, stood strong, and absolutely refused to accept defeat under any circumstances.
What I've seen over the past few months is posts that proclaim that all is already lost, that Trump and his minions will never be held accountable, that Republicans have already 'rigged' the 2022 and 2024 elections and there is no point in pretending otherwise.
I have to wonder what the motivation is behind such posts. What is the purpose of posting Trump is going to get away with his crimes, or declaring that investigations into his obvious corruption are a waste of time?
What prompts any DUer to say the fix is in, so stop holding onto any dream you have that in the end, justice will be done?
What causes any Democrat to insist that fighting to uphold our democracy is already a lost cause?
Cynicism is one thing, and pessimism is expected. But the outright declarations that Trump and the Republicans are going to get away with everything no matter what sounds like a call to accept defeat, and an admonition that we have no power to do what must be done, and change what must be changed.
I, for one, am not willing to accept defeat as urged by the nay-sayers, the "Trump is untouchable" crowd, the people who insist that justice cannot possibly be done.
And I am truly appalled that those promoting such anti-Democratic bullshit are allowed to do so.
I've said my piece. And those who disagree are free to do so. But keep in mind that I'm out of fucks to give ... and I really am.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
PittBlue
(4,406 posts)
FBaggins
(27,887 posts)(if you want to be unpopular)
Your position seems reasonable to me
boston bean
(36,551 posts)hopes for the whole shit show to go down in a flaming pile of shit.
Ray Bruns
(4,811 posts)The guy has been tap dancing through the raindrops for decades. I will believe it when they put the cuffs on him. Until then, it is all wishfull thinking.
Poiuyt
(18,272 posts)the ballet dancing hippos.
Response to Poiuyt (Reply #92)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Poiuyt
(18,272 posts)
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)too often expressed here.
I think of it as the Starfish Syndrome.
gab13by13
(25,746 posts)he was certainly wrong about 1/6.
My question is a simple one, will GOTV be enough to overcome GQP cheating? We already lost a reliable Democrat Jim Cooper from Nashville who is retiring because they gerrymandered his district.
Democrats need to be prepared for GQP cheating. The GQP has replaced honest election officials with Magats, we need to be ready to ensure that every vote is counted.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)to cheat with it's projective accusations that we are cheating. I do trust that Joe is on that and everything that can be done against it will be done, but the question is whether that is enough.
As far as gerrymandering, my understanding is that, to everyone's surprise that has turned out to give us a slight edge.
The voting restriction laws could work or could backfire: "You're going to try and stop me voting? We'll see about that! I'll walk through glass to vote now!"
We just can't know. We can only hope.
gab13by13
(25,746 posts)but I find it a bit shocking. I know we stand to pick up seats in N.Y. but I see Tennessee, Florida, Texas, Alabama and have my doubts that we will have an edge. Repubs got to gerrymander in 2010 so the districts are already tilted. I'm going to have to Google this because it is astonishing if true.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)
ShazzieB
(19,107 posts)I knew I hadn't seen any posts from her in a while, but didn't ascribe any particular significance th that. This is a busy site, and I miss a lot of things. Now I see I evidently missed A LOT, and I have some major catching up to do. 
I just found one of her old posts and gave her a bunch of valentine hearts, just because I could, and because she deserves them.
Response to gab13by13 (Reply #44)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
uponit7771
(92,139 posts)... to listen to what the issues with the GQP anti democracy measures
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Starfish Syndrome indeed!
LakeArenal
(29,899 posts)Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #25)
George II This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)have been in agreement on about 95% of the topics that we converse about here on DU. We have often been allies in the past.
In this, apparently, we disagree. I am not optimistic about the chances of the DOJ taking down tfg. I can't pretend that I am.
If your opinion differs from mine in that, I am not offended. Your opinion simply differs from mine.
In this thread, people who hold my opinion have been insulted, called trolls, and been told we are bad Democrats.
You are now suggesting I am saying salacious things about Democrats, which I am definitely not. I am referring to a tombstoned troll.
I am able to disagree with you on this subject and not disrespect you. I know you came by your opinion honestly. I am able to continue to respect you despite our difference of opinion.
I am hoping you will extend the same courtesy to me.
George II
(67,782 posts)
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)you brought it up. As I said, I was referring to a banned troll.
Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #230)
ShazzieB This message was self-deleted by its author.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,791 posts)ShazzieB
(19,107 posts)I'm shocked, honestly, because I have read some very good posts under the user name StarFishSaver. (I never even heard of EffieBlack until now.)
Going to delete my earlier comment now. Whoopsie!
Walleye
(36,934 posts)I’m not a big fan of so-called constructive criticism anyway. Criticism is criticism. Any helpful suggestions are welcome
secondwind
(16,903 posts)My feelings entirely....... 
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)
FoxNewsSucks
(10,877 posts)Not necessarily a definite knowledge of what that "fix" is, but that based on events of the past few decades, that outcome is a distinct possibility.
Maybe I'm not as pessimistic as I often think. When I see those posts, I read most of them as a warning or reminder. Not that anyone is willing to give up, but a reminder of how bad it might turn out and that we can't give up.
Some may be trying to discourage, but I do think most are simply terrified that may be how it turns out. We know republicons are working feverishly to lie cheat and steal. We can't just be pollyannas, put on rose colored glasses, sit back and say "things will work out". Because that definitely won't "just happen".
Maybe people should just word those kinds of posts better to make the intent more clear.
John Ludi
(593 posts)make overall take on it.
Personally though, I believe in fighting the good fight even if you know the odds are against you. Who knows, we might get lucky.
snowybirdie
(5,765 posts)Sometimes I get so mad I want to alert a post, but don't because I try and respect another's point of view. But with all the dirty tricks in politics, I'm wondering if some are plants intended to demoralize us. Keep up the good fight and keep on giving those f---ks. We will prevail in the fall.
mahina
(19,222 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and cultivated in many cases for years. Same as on the right, just assigned somewhat different feeds.
ShazzieB
(19,107 posts)
Hekate
(95,702 posts)solara
(3,873 posts)You are one of the very best writers around. You speak truth to the powerful and not so powerful alike.
Personally, I'm very grateful that you came to DU and stayed here. I have followed you for years and I always look forward to everything you post. I feel proud and very happy you are a Democrat.
Keep writing. Keep posting. Stay safe and happy. You are one of the healers for sure.
nebby70
(490 posts)... sometimes I feel that all is lost too ---
... but without fail - there suddenly appears a NanceGreggs post to kick me in the butt and remind me to stand up a bit straighter, take a deep breath and keep on going after the ideals we here all hold dear....
... all of DU provides support - but NanceGreggs is a beacon light....
pnwmom
(109,654 posts)
Yonnie3
(18,274 posts)and would be helped. Not so much lately. The posts you reference leave no room for such discussion.
ShazzieB
(19,107 posts)You just nailed what drives me crazy about those posts. 
calimary
(84,913 posts)LOVE it, as always!
Ohio Joe
(21,894 posts)I’m satisfied the DOJ investigation is steadily and solidly working it’s way up the chain. I also firmly believe that come the mid terms, we’ll end up with an even bigger advantage in both houses.
boston bean
(36,551 posts)Just ribbing ya. Always appreciate your posts. You aren’t slamming on people who have well founded doubts!
Ohio Joe
(21,894 posts)I try... I do get testy from time to time but I do try 
Atticus
(15,124 posts)a little bit surprised if some of the fatalists don't respond with wordy explanations of how they're just being "realistic" and we are just naive unsophisticates.
Your attitude used to be a "given" here. I hope it will be again and soon.
mucifer
(24,954 posts)ok to have these discussions and support each other.
I am glad you posted this . It's important.
But, I see the other side, too. Please don't discount us so much.
Best wishes!!
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)Please link to anyone saying that fighting to uphold our Democracy is a lost cause.
No one is saying that.
That is a world away from people expressing doubt - based on evident lack of activity and observation of the January 6 Committee's evident worry - that Garland will ever get to those committing the biggest crimes.
Personally, I am with the January 6th Committee. I am extremely worried that those at the top will not be held responsible.
I get that others disagree with me strongly. They believe he is conducting secret investigations and will bring the hammer down all at once.
I am able to understand and express that viewpoint without misrepresenting what those who hold it are saying.
I am truly appalled that those who hold the opinion that all is well with the investigations are not able to hear my opposing opinion without laying on it the kind of ridiculous misrepresentation in your post.
No one is saying justice cannot be done. What we are saying is that justice is not being done. Obviously. And we need it to start being done soon.
And personally, I'm out of fucks to give when I see all the "Fitzmas is right around the corner" and "Merrick Garland has them all under double-secret probation" and "he charged some rioters with insurrection so that proves that everyone is going down" and "I hate all the negative nellies who aren't really good Democrats" nonsense that I am seeing.
Our Democracy has been on a knife edge for 13 months. We are in danger. Every month that passes increases that danger. If my worry and frustration about that is offensive to you, so be it. Seems like there are no fucks anywhere any more.
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)The context of your post is obvious.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)how "Handcuffs or it didn't happen" equals "Investigations are a waste of time" or "fighting to uphold our Democracy is a lost cause."
Do I really need to explain this to you? "Handcuffs or it didn't happen" means show me a result and stop with the speculation based on nothing.
And here again is what I am talking about. With your "the context of your post is obvious" comment, you are, I presume, accusing me of something nefarious.
Then you take my comment, which I stand by: "Handcuffs or it didn't happen" and say it satisfies the ridiculous misrepresentations in the OP. It clearly is not even in the same universe as those ridiculous misrepresentations.
I can hear your opinion that all is well with the investigations without insulting or misrepresenting you.
That does not seem to be a consideration you are capable of giving me.
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)" Please link to where anyone has said the investigations are a waste of time." You quite literally and categorically equate absence of handcuffs with nothing happening. To you, results that didn't involve handcuffs are, and I quote, "bullshit". You made yourself clear: you are not looking for results, you are looking for handcuffs, so don't deflect now.
So how is your "handcuffs or it didn't happen" remark is not synonymous with "waste of time"? Obviously, you don't see handcuffs, and to you, by your own admission, it means it didn't happen. Is your idea of nothing happening, especially in the context of your posts, any different from your idea of waste of time? I can't wait for your explanation.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)means exactly the opposite of what you are claiming. What I am looking for is a result. Only a result. And all the "maybe, might be's" at this point are nonsense.
I feel certain you will dig in on your assertion that "Handcuffs or it didn't happen" means I am not looking for a
result (
) so have at it and have a lovely day.
Can't make this shit up.
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)"Handcuffs or id didn't happen means exactly what it says. Nothing matters to you unless you see handcuffs. And once again, you are not looking for a result. You are looking for THE result. Handcuffs. Any other result is, in your own words, "bullshit". So don't tell me that what you meant is the opposite of what you said. What you said is well documented.
And, evidently, you CAN make this shit up. It just doesn't stick to the wall.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,791 posts)""Maybe, might be, could be, don't know but, it looks like, soon."
All of it is worthless bullshit."
You can tell, because that's what preceded it. Here's a working link: https://democraticunderground.com/100216329489#post1
The OP was speculation that " Garland may be waiting to see if he can charge Meadows with much more serious crimes as a defendant." Calling speculation worthless speculation is not saying Democrats will lose.
What I'd love to know is what you meant by "too much of a Pinochet territory for my taste"; because that is a complete non-sequitur. Throwing around the name of a fascist doesn't explain anything in that context. It's nonsense. Was that a smear that you decided you couldn't pull off?
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 10, 2022, 07:08 AM - Edit history (1)
the OP's speculations, or in reference to yesterday's weather, or in reference to nothing at all? It still retains its very distinct meaning of a categorical rejection of all other possible outcomes, a meaning that doesn't easily lend itself to spin. And how is the ""Maybe, might be, could be, don't know but, it looks like, soon"" comment not a wholesale mockery of any nuance that falls short of the all or nothing declaration that follows? And how is the "All of it is worthless bullshit" comment not a contemptful dismissal of the DOJ's past and the likely future steps outlined in the OP?
As far as my Pinochet reference, I must admit: in the heat of an argument about uncompromisingly indiscriminate law enforcement measures, Gandhi wasn't the first name that came to mind. You are welcome to suggest any other comparisons that you may deem to be more fitting to the occasion. Alternatively, I would be happy to delete the entire sentence that refers to Pinochet at your request. It is entirely immaterial to the rest of my post.
gab13by13
(25,746 posts)I am one of the radicals who wants to see Big Fish investigated and indicted, is that a bad thing?
The thread is about GOTV and all will be fine. Want to know what will GOTV? Want to know what will drive Democrats to the polls, accountability and justice.
Do you think that DOJ should have done more to stop a bogus Cyber Ninja company have access to ballots, voter information, election material and equipment? Was writing a stern letter enough to stop the fraudits from spreading across the country? Cyber Ninjas violated federal law.
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)Let me just say this to avoid any misunderstandings of where I stand: I too am one of the radicals who wants to see the big fish investigated and (gasp!) convicted. If that's a bad thing, I am certainly as bad as you are. I just don't let my impatience to see desired outcomes turn into into blaming someone else for my frustration for not seeing desired outcomes.
I don't think that DOJ should have done more, nor do I think they are not doing enough. I simply have no opinion on the matter. You know why? Because I know jack shit about what they are doing or not doing. My ignorance of the matter is a piss poor foundation for drawing conclusions. All the evidence that keeps turning up in mass media only points in the general direction of possible investigations, not necessarily to who is to be in charge of the investigating, not to the presumed progress of investigating or lack thereof, not to the amount of time needed for any step of the process to take place, not to how much of the process ought tho be made public, not to the likelihood of indictments based on this evidence, not to the likelihood of successful prosecutions based on the evidence. These things are all determined by the the people who are way above my pay grade, people who know way mire than any of us do, and who are way more experienced than all of us put together.
It would be ridiculous for me to pass judgements based on my abject ignorance of what is going on.
Cha
(306,272 posts) 
💙
stopdiggin
(13,165 posts)I don't claim to know things that I can't possibly have insight or a handle on - but, boy, that minor little impediment sure hasn't stopped a lot of our fellow posters!
HUAJIAO
(2,724 posts)boston bean
(36,551 posts)We saw fitzmas, mueller.
We lived through trump, gw bush and go back to Nixon. No consequences. None this far.
Do I want to believe something will happen, yes.
Doubting something will in the face of the last 50 years of experience? Probably not gonna see severe consequences. And for some reason to save democracy we will be asked to move on from this. That is my opinion based on history and experience.
All the people saying there is super duper secret stuff going on we don’t know about flies in the face of that history and that trump will be in prison is not grounded in any fact they can point to.
I believe I am on more solid realistic ground. Could I be wrong? Yes…. Happily.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)boston bean
(36,551 posts)Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)bad Democrat because I disagree with someone's opinion - which has no more evidence behind it than mine does - really lowers my opinion of that person.
Also, as Meowmee said down thread, "If people felt secure in their assessments that everything is a ok in the state of Denmark then other peoples views on it wouldn't bother them."
obamanut2012
(27,981 posts)Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #17)
Name removed Message auto-removed
boston bean
(36,551 posts)this centrists/progressive bologna.
Response to boston bean (Reply #141)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Hekate
(95,702 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Cha
(306,272 posts)"..centrists do nothing except provide cover while sipping mint Julips on the plantation porch."?
You are so WRONG.
Response to Cha (Reply #252)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Cha
(306,272 posts)Response to Cha (Reply #302)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Cha
(306,272 posts)NanananaFatman (83 posts)
134. Agreed.
Those who know history see the danger.
Fascists don’t give a fuck and polyannas and centrists do nothing except provide cover while sipping mint Julips on the plantation porch.
Response to Cha (Reply #307)
Name removed Message auto-removed
betsuni
(27,361 posts)
smh... 
Nixie
(17,478 posts)
Budi
(15,325 posts)The forewarnings of damage went right over their heads..
Except it was a whole diff demographic than you labelled.
They didn't give a big enough fk to save it either.
"Those who know history see the danger."
He told them who he was & they sent money & stood cheering at his rallys, the glassy eyed cult believers.
Response to Budi (Reply #296)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Budi
(15,325 posts)...the same fighters of women's reproductive rights that once devoted decades to bring that precious personal right to law.
Maybe that keen awarness skipped a complacent gen along the way.
It won't be any easier the second time around, so this current not-yet--voting-age gen will have to want what was thrown away, badly enough to dedicate their fight until the end.
Wishing them peace & strength & success🍃
Response to Budi (Reply #306)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Budi
(15,325 posts)Btw, it wasn't the 'centrists' that dropped the ball on the SC warnings.
Cha
(306,272 posts)TY!
Those who ignored the warning dropped the ball for every generation of women & girls after them.
Never even gave the dire warnings a thought.
Budi
(15,325 posts)Your statement is widly respected.
Me neither.
Thanks for the OP.
Cha
(306,272 posts)It's too bad so many didn't listen to her warning in Swing States instead of the LIES that she and trump were the same.
Looking at you susan Fucking sarandon.
& jill stein.
💛💜💙💝❤️💓
Budi
(15,325 posts)💕🍃
Cha
(306,272 posts)to Fascists doesn't affect them one bit.. they're soulless.
Still won't admit to being Wrong. Or take responsibility for their part in getting TFCG in power.
Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)
Fullduplexxx This message was self-deleted by its author.
Maeve
(43,084 posts)Nixon got away with everything...until he didn't. That took a couple of years, too.
The Jan 6 Committee will have more to say in the coming months and we can't count the DOJ out quite yet, no matter what "they" say.
The ice is melting.
Response to Maeve (Reply #20)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Hekate
(95,702 posts)I was fully adult at the time and remember all of it keenly. While I thought then, and still think now, that pardoning him was a big mistake, I don’t share your view.
One difference between Nixon and Trump is that Nixon was capable of feeling shame, and we know that Trump is not. Another difference between the two men is orientation and motivation — Nixon understood the point of government, and how it works, and whatever his motives were he was not intent on selling out this country to one of our enemies. Trump — has none of those attributes
.
George II
(67,782 posts)...and convicted in the Senate (thanks to "the dems" and Barry Goldwater, among other republicans). Had he not resigned but was thrown out of office, Gerald Ford would never have pardoned him.
Response to George II (Reply #246)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Paladin
(29,132 posts)The caption on it was something like: "Hey Don! Thanks for making me look like a fucking saint!"
Doodley
(10,452 posts)
we can do it
(12,802 posts)
Ferrets are Cool
(22,074 posts)Past precedent. Bush Jr skated for war crimes against humanity.
I am hopeful that tfg will pay for his many crimes, but I am not holding my breath.
The ONLY reason I have run out of fucks to give is when it comes to repugs. I honestly do not care if they die for "freedumb".
So, I guess I am agreeing with you, however, if someone or something bothers me so much that I must post about it, I will just put them on ignore. 
Meowmee
(6,485 posts)Of people’s valid views and opinions on a democratic site is really not very democratic. There are many posts that should be auto removed here imo though, such as holocaust revisionism and ageism etc.
If people felt secure in their assessments that everything is a ok in the state of Denmark then other peoples views on it wouldn't bother them.
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)The OP is not calling for censorship. Te OP is asking certain DUers to to adjust their expectations to reflect reality in a more objective light.
Meowmee
(6,485 posts)An attempt to stamp out other people’s views or even their attempts to express them, which I have often seen here.
OP said: “And I am truly appalled that those promoting such anti-Democratic bullshit are allowed to do so”
Meaning people who think trump will skate and so on are 1- anti democratic and I assume 2- should not be allowed to post their views that he and others will not be held accountable. Or anything else the op and others may deem anti democratic. It is not anti democratic to express that there is a chance, a good chance imo reading the room, that he will not be held accountable.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts) Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)I too think that every DUer has the freedom to promote all the anti-democratic bullshit they can come up with. In fact, I don't think that their posts are anti-democratic at all.
But I have a hard time accepting them as not bullshit.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)That isn't meant to censor thought, which is allowed a thousand other public places, but to create a friendly place for "politically liberal people."
Interestingly, anti-democratic comments are not disallowed. And we do see anti-democracy posts here, which I believe is a significant component of what the OP is objecting to. It is to me. America has a noisy and aggressive anti-democracy, anti-Democratic and il-liberal left who find constant fault with the Democratic Party's commitment to the principles of pluralism, majority rule and representative democracy itself and insist on pressing their views.
However, since Democrats and the Democratic Party are committed to the ideals and furtherance of democracy, anti-democracy posts should be worded, but aren't always, so they don't reveal open opposition to electing Democrats or support for subverting election of Democrats. Most find it easy enough by openly supporting people who express anti-democratic, anti-Democratic beliefs and/or il-liberal beliefs but publicly identify as Democrats and thus are protected here. Dog whistle names, so to speak.
Hekate
(95,702 posts)
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)If you need others to agree with your definition of what constitutes "objective reality" why would you go on a discussion board?
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)It is not the OP who defines "more objective reality" (and BTW, flexibility is inherent in the term itself), it is reason that defines it. I am totally in favor of all varieties of opinion, even unreasonable ones or the ones that express unorthodox views of reality. I must, however, insist on my right to call these views out. Because... discussion board! Duh!
Let me get this straight: you are not suggesting that certain unreasonable views expressed on Fox News, for instance, should not be challenged as unreasonable, and that they fall within the scope of the definition of "more objective reality", do you? By the same token, are you suggesting that opinions expressed on any discussion board all fall within the definition of a "more objective reality" simply because they have been posted on a discussion board?
Somehow, I don't think "silly argument" means what you think it means.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)It works like this. When one gets bad news, one can adjust expectations, or they can face facts.
Access the news, it's source and delve into its meaning in the near and far terms. Integrate all one's experience and memory into analysis, categorization and conclusions drawable. There should be no tolerance for equivocations based on the desperations of "hope" or declarations pasted together in fits of trauma. The process is endless and self-perpetuating, a source of limitless interest. Fun for all.
At this point its this:
A. Two , count 'em, two! Impeachment trials. Both of which, despite plentiful evidence and in the face of their gravity which threatens the longevity of our government and its/our prestige on the world's stage, were tossed aside by those persons, divorced from reality, revealing obvious political motives and a shamelessness unrivaled since 1930's Germany.
B. A 6/3 USSC is cobbled from a gobbledygook of Mitch's own rationale, making no attempt to bespeak the will of the people or the intent of the constitution in any way but as a macabre interpretation of some fevered dream. And these guys and gals are "termiteing" the main beams of civil and voting rights guarantees, leaving a pretension of legal malevolence not seen since the CSA.
C. Through the criminal denial, by TFG, of public health through a cohesive strategy, the nation, instead of leading the world on the edges of scientific innovation, is itself, nearly crippled in body and spirit, damn near into economic collapse by an especially vindictive and cruel campaign to confuse, divide and demoralize the citizenry of these US. Not even getting into the, goddammit I can't believe I'm even saying the words, DEATH TOLL.
D. Not least nor necessarily lastly, we have the unfettered and unrepentant bedlam of "conservative" double speak broadcast stirring up the "voting rubes" 24/7 on our "publicly" owned air waves and all we can do about that is kid ourselves that we're "just this close" to turning all this shit around.
And now somebody has their panties all twisted because we're not unanimously hell bent on fabricating some "understanding" of why a congressional committee charged with unwrapping a plot to overthrow the government has failed, even 13 months after a nationally televised (complete with high-lights, in-depth interviews and on-the-spot reporting) revolution, to jail a single ringleader. The time for prosecution is nigh. If the 1/6 committee is playing out the clock, waiting for the eve of the midterms to play its hand, then what truths will be said about the curious coincidence? If they wait until after the midterms, I KNOW what history might say. If we get to have a history. I'm all for cohesion. It's what makes election days so special, really. Meanwhile, let's leave the cry for a more sincere and spirited cheering squad on the sidelines of the courts and fields where children play their games.
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)I could rightfully refuse a debate with you on these grounds alone, but I am not easily offended, so you will have to endure my response.
First, let's establish this from the outset: your veiled insults don't move me one bit. Now, let's go on to the content of your post.
You are saying that the Congressional Committee has failed. This observation is false on its face. None of the narrative you provided contains any evidence that the committee has failed in their mission. On the contrary, when the reality of their situation is observed in an objective manner, it is beyond obvious that they are still functioning in harmony with their mission, they still call witnesses, and they still send evidence they keep collecting and referrals based on this evidence to the appropriate bodies, and that their investigations result in increasingly significant indictments. They have no intention to end their work or declare failure.
Can they still fail? Possibly. Have they, as you suggest, failed? Hell no. No reasonable person in touch with reality, no matter their expectations, would come up with such distortion of the current status of their inquiry.
Thank you for the opportunity to so clearly illustrate that certain people, in order to reflect reality in a more objective light, need to adjust their expectations.
jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)"You are saying that the Congressional Committee has failed", per you. That is not what I wrote. Please reread it. It was part of a run-on sentence.
You built a strawman argument of it.
I said, the 1/6 Committee has failed to prosecute a single ringleader, some 13 months after the riot. That is just a fact which I find irritating.
The committee may yet serve its necessary purpose. I want that to be true. However, what I want has no bearing on their means, methods, motivations or findings.
I don't go out trying to insult people. It is my experience that even if the shoe fits, I'm not forced to wear it.
If you felt I was insulting you personally, then I owe an apology, which you have. In the future I will try to avoid intersecting my circular cones with a plane at a smaller angle with its axis than the side of the cone. I've always had trouble with math.
HUAJIAO
(2,724 posts)Response to Meowmee (Reply #24)
Name removed Message auto-removed
George II
(67,782 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(102,791 posts)For instance, "jury". DU uses it, to mean a similar system to the legal one. So when the OP complains that "those promoting such anti-Democratic bullshit are allowed to do so", it's asking for way to prevent such opinions appearing on DU, which corresponds to the dictionary definition of "to examine and expurgate", coming from the noun defined as "a person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable".
Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #290)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)I have not participated in the Merrick Garland threads of speculation because for one I have no idea what he knows. When it is all unraveled, dissected legally and politically.....because that always plays a role to a degree, then I may start complaining too. I have no reason at this time to doubt Garland.
At one of America's lowest points, imho, in recent history, was the crimes of George W. Bush and his cronies. War is a devasting event and they brought destruction that may never be fully remedied. He paid no price for that, legally. Perhaps for some that brought an end to believe we as a country would hold our own accountable...after all, he had his OLC craft twisted legal reasoning for torture.
The United States of America is a trainwreck, in many ways, but I keep in mind two very essential events that keep hope alive for me.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in 2016, democracies by majority vote decide, not some relic garbage EC. She would have been president...the country never needed to have gone through what it did. Most important, that majority spoke to the desire to have Hillary NOT Trump. That is an important aspect of the election, most of us rejected him...as good people do.
Fast forward to the insanity of Trump's administration and insurrection, his coup failing, thankfully...the American people kicked his ass to the curb in unprecedented numbers. Again, as good people do...this sustains me as we work hard to vote in a supermajority of Democrats.
MLAA
(18,779 posts)uponit7771
(92,139 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)elected our first black president twice. All those people are still here, even if media attention is riveted on destructive minorities these days.
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)The American people did want Obama twice, where is your birth certificate racism calls fell flat.
Don't get me wrong, a great deal to fight for ahead, I do truly believe we must work hard for a supermajority.
Hope you and yours are well!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Same to all the BeckyDems.
Ahead to that supermajority!
Hekate
(95,702 posts)… by millions.
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)Grateful for the few Republicans who did not go along with the coup too.
Next up? We have a lot of work to do because the GOP is aggressive, we must pass the voting rights bill...stop them from voter suppression etc.
yobrault1
(160 posts)I love this forum but at times it seems it is shooting itself in the foot. The animosity towards Merrick Garland because he hasn't thrown the slobfather in prison without due process is frankly, silly. I have mentioned many times of the difference between this DOJ and Administration is the lack of leaks. The previous departments had daily leaks from everywhere the DOJ and Administration were sivs. Not now because there are actual adults in charge. But the public wants accountability without responsibility and that cannot happen if you want the charges to stick and not galvanize one side against the other. All the misdeeds of the previous admin and DOJ have to be brought into the light of day and we must be patient enough to let justice run its course.
I just pray the American people will have the patience to let the wheels of Justice prevail by getting out and voting to save their country for the right-wing elements that want to burn it all down in 2022 mid-terms.
panader0
(25,816 posts)I've posted to and about the cynics here for a while. So many DUers just seem like they want to
surrender with out a fight. "Democracy is dead" and "America is lost" have been seen here for
months and years. Toughen up people, try harder, downshift and never give up.
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)Somehow, every hint of a minor setback and the absence of immediate progress has become synonymous with utter failure among all too many DUers. It's as if the struggle for democratic principles, equal rights and the rule of law (and make no mistake, it is always a non-stop struggle) is now expected to be an easy stroll downhill, and any encounter with an incline is regarded as an excuse to give up.
To me, it's a sign of laziness, apathy and weakness.
Consider me in among the ranks of wildly unpopular.
RobinA
(10,216 posts)the past 6-7 years as "every hint of a minor setback"?
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)I am responding to the OP, who defined the timeframe we are talking about, as eell as the posts he is referring to, in this way:
This is what I am speaking of.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)drawn to politics but almost for the purpose of nurturing failure and/or grievance syndromes. What a horrible combination. I can't recall the last time I spoke with anyone like that in person.
We all run into plenty who facilely declare their wisdom in knowing there's no point in voting, but most of them are trying to cover the ignorance of feckless indifference. And mercifully, as far as DU goes, they'd rather stick a needle in their eye, so to speak. 
Beastly Boy
(11,529 posts)It's just that I am a bit more more permissive than TOU. Makes my life easier - no desire to alert anyone, and I learn how similar the fallacies used by the far left are to those used by the far right (I must admit that I occasionally get into heated discussions with the far right on their forums as I do with the far left posters here on DU). It's always a learning experience.
I don't believe that all the gloom and doom talk here is malicious. To me it's more a sign of American culture in general being permeated with expectations of instant gratification, and the public in general, not just on DU, experiencing withdrawal symptoms when their expectations are not met. They just haven't learned how to cope, other than fall into depression as a default response.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)damaging degree are targets and victims of enemies foreign and domestic working to subvert their political beliefs and electoral behaviors. Most of those malicious influences are elsewhere, their poisonous messages and effects brought here, though DU also has to work constantly to identify and expel as many as possible who arrive here.
NEGATIVISM is the giant weapon anti-Democratic and anti-democracy forces everywhere use to turn people against liberals and liberal democracy. It's worked horribly across the spectrum. From RW populists who are attempting to take over our democracy for tRump and "hang Pence," to so-called anti-vaxxers occupying Ottawa's streets, to LW counterparts also determined to destroy the Democratic establishment and also yelling "lock her up."
To those who started out excited by what Democrats are doing but abandoned hope easily under the influence of insidious whisperers, to those reassured by everyone else that there's nothing good to vote for because we're all evil corporatists or commies. Destruction of trust is epidemic. And deliberate. Ideally, we'd all turn against ourselves or surrender without firing a shot. As so many did in 2016 and 2020.
This thread and posts are a huge indication that manipulated negativism has built to a degree that it's overwhelming our culture of confidence and belief in what we're doing, and the ability of some swamped in negativism to connect with more clear-eyed views. And thanks to Nance for addressing it. It's been coming in waves for some time but has been especially heavy lately, kind of like the influx of trucks that have overwhelmed Ottawa's center. And the similarity is not at all coincidental.
It's because this is an existentially important election year, of course. The stakes are enormous, both nationally and internationally.
DownriverDem
(6,720 posts)Could it be because the negative folks aren't Dems? For a long time it has bothered me that the label "progressives" started being used. It just seems too divisive and against the Dems. It's as if they are fighting both the repubs and Dems. I'm a proud member of the Democratic Party. I want them to beat the repubs. We need to stick together and work on GOTV.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Some never will, though, and were never ours to lose in spite of the current label they chose. One of the many similarities of oppositional groups on both right and left is their need to claim liberal Democratic ideals and goals to sell themselves to voters. And often to disguise themselves among us. Thank everything there are so few comparatively.
betsuni
(27,361 posts)Pretending liberal Democratic ideals are new and radical to the Democratic Party because they're just like Republicans. Sales point. Please give me three grassroots dollars so I, and only I, can fight for the working class against the Democratic establishment.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)They masquerade as progressive because that's what Democrats vote for, and socialists because that ideology draws more votes on the far left.
But in 2016 they proved they're populists motivated by negative anti-establishment antagonisms, not progressive or socialist builders, when they threw the nation to to the RW's own fascistic anti-establishment populist movement. They had to know it was far more powerful than theirs, but their actions say they found that preferable to continuing among the fringes of the free voters of a liberal, progressive democracy.
2016's still ongoing, but we're just going to have to stomp their dreams again, on our way to defeating the Republicans, because it's the fate of extremists to lose when things go right for nations as a whole.
There. That's positive. 
ForgedCrank
(2,471 posts)as an issue for myself.
As far as the primary point in your post, I read all this stuff here as well. I'm insulted multiple times daily with blanket insults about my location, religion, etc. I also see all the bad economy headlines, the complaints regarding lack of prosecution for the former ass and our opposition.
I see headlines as pure propaganda by default now. Only if I can read something and identify actual verifiable information will I take it seriously. Even the polls fall into that category now. The money machine is real, and I can see it clearly enough to filter them out.
All the poison and insults are real, but it won't stop me from doing what is right when it comes time to vote.
Do you live in a primarily red or blue state?
I would suggest expressing your concerns with local representatives regarding redistricting, etc. It helps, even though we don't always think it does.
MoonlightHillFarm
(61 posts)You mean those nattering nabobs of negativism??
Spirio Agnew
The Wizard
(12,995 posts)at least from the time I started coming here. They always reveal themselves. So much for hand wringing. We have elections to win.
RobinA
(10,216 posts)As defined as, Anybody who is concerned about something I am not. The many people who were concerned about a Trump victory in 2016 are 
Hekate
(95,702 posts)… and they are sooooo concerned, 24/7, about everything Democratic.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)to a website and only post once when agents can tag team themselves and double their productivity?
The stakes in this warfare are beyond enormous, but a lot of nice people have trouble taking in that what's happening is real. Not in America.
plimsoll
(1,690 posts)Defeatism, and pessimism.
I’ll say right now that I sincerely question the justice systems ability to prosecute right wing terrorists. Not because they won’t try, but because at this point you are probably unable to seat a juror that won’t contain at least one sympathizer who will lie to get seated. 40 years of attacking the government have undermined our institutions to such an extent that some people believe it’s ok to violate those social contracts when they don’t give you the result you want.
The fact is I believe that prosecutors don’t try rich people because they know that even if they get a conviction judges are very likely give sentences so lenient as to be meaningless, in conditions that may be better than “freedom” for many poor people.
So yes, I don’t believe equal protection under the law exists as reality in this country. 40 years of GOP rule has shattered that.
I’m not a defeatist. All is not lost, we cannot surrender because our opponents have used a phony culture war to further a class system.
dixiechiken1
(2,113 posts)I generally try to stay out of these conversations because they're rarely productive. I want to believe justice will be served. I truly do. However, from what I've observed, there are two separate justice systems - one for the haves & another for the rest of us. "I'll believe it when I see it" pretty much encapsulates it for me.
ewagner
(18,967 posts)We needed that!
malaise
(279,748 posts)Rec 
Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)
malaise This message was self-deleted by its author.
George II
(67,782 posts) FalloutShelter
(12,947 posts)Defeatism is not a feature of the Democratic
Playbook.
Silver Gaia
(4,923 posts)Thanks for voicing this.It's important.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I, too, am sick of it all. Welcome to Eeyore Underground!
MineralMan
(148,221 posts)That's it. They are a small minority of DUers. A very active minority, but a minority nevertheless. I'm not sure what they hope to accomplish, but it's not working. There are plenty of other DUers who will counter the doom posts with reality and hope.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)But don't forget the cheerleaders, defenders, and the occasional hit-and-run one-post-wonders, and those who quietly click the DU-rec in agreement. There are other ways to stifle the conversation and promote pessimism too (but for obvious reasons, I won't discuss it here.)
So that I can better understand things, often times I'll look at profiles, posting history, journals, avatars... and that's a good indicator for providing clues of the underlying motivation and resentments that could possibly be driving this type of ridiculously pessimistic and toxic behavior.
MineralMan
(148,221 posts)What I think is important, though, is that others are here to chime in and present the other viewpoint. Like you, I also look at profiles sometimes, to try to understand those who regularly post negative tropes here.
I'm always grateful to those who take the time to counter the doom and gloom posters. I try to do so whenever I can. You do, as well, along with a host of others who step up and chime in with reason and factual information when some post only the negative side of everything.
What I have noticed, when it comes to OPs, is that DUers regularly recommend positive posts more often than negative ones. That's always encouraging.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)times this winter when the toxic influence has been as heavy and repellent as in the mixed political forums I finally left to seek positive liberal discussion here.
uponit7771
(92,139 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 10, 2022, 10:24 AM - Edit history (1)
... dodge of the question how are we supposed to win in 24 if the GQP wins in 22 and allows the anti democracy measures to grow and continue at the state level?
You can't GOTV anti access laws, we tried that already and a myriad of organizers are telling us its not even a logical thought.
There was no GOTV for blacks who COULD NOT vote pre 64 laws or people who have their access to voting taken away by current GQP anti democracy measures.
Our time is short, we need to address that problem and not with mostly optimism but rational logical plans and actions.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)No it's not. Rational people can easily understand what she's writing about.
uponit7771
(92,139 posts)Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts) oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)Every Democratic Party office is full of volunteers who will bend over backwards to assist you if you don't have friends, family, internet, a car, etc, to get your ID.
I can only speak for my state, but a voter ID here is free. You cannot bank or access healthcare without a valid ID. So I'm betting 99% HAVE one. This that don't, pick up a phone and ask for help. We're here.
The constant thing about "we just can't vote because of "X"" is ridiculous. Democrats have the exact same ability to get registered if they just take advantage of all the help out there.
Redistricting is a different story, but courts are also tossing a lot of those maps
uponit7771
(92,139 posts)If you have an answer to the anti access and nullification laws the GQP is implementing I'd love to hear it.
Again, if you were a woman in 1900 you COULD NOT vote that's not something to be organized around laws have to be changed.
There was no GOTV for women in 1900s, it was useless
Lets take a recent GA measure that is an anti access measure like shortening the time to vote by mail.
https://www.salon.com/2021/12/01/what-suppression-looks-like-rejected-ballot-requests-up-400-after-new-georgia-voting-law/#:~:text=The%20new%20Georgia%20law%2C%20SB,information%20under%20the%20new%20law.
That's anti access because the GA measure TOOK AWAY time to vote and increased the number of ballots that were thrown out and the GA gov under communicated the changes to the community.
Lets looks at the anti access law in Texas via voter ID
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/20/1074296368/why-texas-election-officials-are-rejecting-hundreds-of-vote-by-mail-applications#:~:text=The%20problem%20is%20this%3A%20A%20lot%20of%20people%20don%27t%20remember%20what%20form%20of%20ID%20they%20put%20on%20their%20registration.%20That%27s%20especially%20true%20if%20they%20registered%20to%20vote%20decades%20ago.
The GQP understand people CAN NOT vote in these cases and brute forcing mail ballots is only going to increase the QUANTY (not proporation) of votes that are rejected.
The problem faced is bigger than just voter ID seeing the GQP is also taking away drop boxes and voting machines.
These measures have been done in other countries to a HIGH EFFECT for those who want to stay in power.
We need answers in the US, not just "stay positive" that minimizes what the GQP is doing in their ongoing coup
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)"Most of the absentee ballot applications rejected last year were duplicates of applications that had already been submitted, often because voting groups or local governments sent out multiple forms to voters."
So most were probably already registered. Also, in GA, much like most southern states, republicans are more likely to use absentee ballots than democrats. So how many mentioned above were republicans & how many Democrats? Do we know?
We have early voting starting the fourth Monday before an election. Thats plenty of time. We USED to have ONE day. Every one I have spoken with who have older parents no longer driving have gotten the State ID now required; since their DL long expired . I have taken 3 people to the election office to get a voter ID. Every volunteer here has reached out to everyone on our voter lists. There are radio & TV ads. Yes, they purge voter lists. And everyone can call their office to see if they're on that list. I call every 2 yrs. If you're on it, fix it. Or better yet, start voting; because most on those lists haven't voted recently or moved to other counties or states.
There just is very little reason to not vote here regardless of the new laws. Some of which are really silly, yes. And some of which I imagine will be tossed. I don't think the ID part will be; because its free.
Now TEXAS, they pretty much just put into writing "If you're black you don't qualify".
uponit7771
(92,139 posts)... LT Gov of Texas implemented with mail in ballots and bragged about on TV.
We first have to recognize the problem with what the GQP is doing isn't just making it harder to vote but making it impossible to vote by laws.
and
... when we do vote they throw votes out
That's the concern, this is happening in a number of states CURRENTLY not just after Nov elections.
Is the thinking here we can brute force organize past 20 different voting laws in a state.
Maybe posting where we can attach to organizers is something we can do ...
obamanut2012
(27,981 posts)I said this same thing the other day. I am ti=red of it. Being realistic is not the same thing as being fatalistic.
uponit7771
(92,139 posts)... seeing the USSC just yesterday declared its not on our side?
I'm ti=red of the dismissal of rational concerns and the strawmen arguments to them
obamanut2012
(27,981 posts)Some folks on here and IRL have become as addicted to it as the Qs with their Qbert stuff. They are also into doomscrolling.
Dismissing things out of hand is the issue (It's a slap on the wrist! Nothing will happen! Fitzmas!), instead of rationally saying what the issues are, and how to realistically combat them.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Doom and gloom predictions. Wild predictions and LOTS of them. If they don't come true, then they're forgotten and nobody is held accountable for being ridiculous. Or... as in the case of Moore... he'll take credit by saying that because of his "warning" people acted to avoid the doom he predicted.
And, inevitably... if someone makes ENOUGH crazy predictions (for example Sylvia Browne comes to mind) occasionally there's a "hit" (or something close to it). And when that happens, the other 99 misses are forgotten, but the one random "hit" his heralded as irrefutable proof that the naysayer and doom/gloom fetishist is a GENIUS.
It's all so silly. Just like Michael Moore, it's totally and completely ridiculous.
In the end, I think the best question is this: What useful purpose does it serve? It's just another example of how people are oddly willing to do and say things that create an atmosphere of fear and hopelessness and negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.
obamanut2012
(27,981 posts)It's proven it depresses voting turnout, etc. I mean, I live in fucking Florida and am afraid DeSantis may win reelection, but I haven't gone all Eeyore about it.
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)I personally know a few people; Trump voters in '16 but not '20, who have said they're done. Just not going to vote if a trumper is on the ballot. They turned off at different times for different reasons. They simply won't vote for Democrats because "they're too far left". But NOT voting is almost like voting D
They want the trump cancer removed from what WAS the GOP. But, much like many GOP office holders, they don't post this on FB because of the blowback. But that silent dissent is growing, I believe.
CommonHumanity
(291 posts)Or maybe we should respond with encouragement to our friends who feel hope is lost. Help them to take heart and provide historical examples of triumph against seemingly insurmountable odds. Isn't part of the reason for connecting with like-minded folks to support and hold each other up when our hope understandably waivers?
I react to the doom and gloom posts too. In fact, I kind of hate them because THEY SCARE ME! That said, I don't think it is necessarily better to have people who feel that way shut up. They are still on our side and are just losing faith in the shitty system. Maybe we need to rally around and bolster them with hope.
Please note that this is no way criticism of the understandably fed-up poster. I get it. I REALLY get it and am glad you shared. I have felt 100 percent the same way. And, in fact, do feel there is a place for tuning out perpetual doom and gloomers. That said, maybe some of them are despairing idealists who care so much it hurts. Maybe, just maybe, and I am not saying this is true in all cases, but maybe some of them need a little help from their friends. We all do sometimes.
It is in fact possible that Trump and his ilk will not be held accountable, but let's remember together that even if that is true it is not the end of the story. The fight for justice is long and history moves forward and back in advancing the cause. It has always been this way. Many, many have toiled and struggled all their lives without seeing results, but each effort is a drop in the bucket and the tides can turn unexpectedly.
Yes, it sucks (sucks! sucks! sucks!) that our democracy is in peril due to the worst among us. But every effort towards justice matters and there is NO WAY to know the eventual ripples that extend from our actions. I know in my bones that is true. The thing is though-- sometimes we need community and encouragement to carry on. I guess this has turned into my own pep talk to you all. So take heart, my friends. As best we can, let's love and support each other and carry on.
With love and gratitude to you all.
onenote
(44,880 posts)
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,947 posts)
BootinUp
(49,214 posts)lol.
MineralMan
(148,221 posts)Thanks!
jmbar2
(6,307 posts)When I think of our situation, I am always inspired by the black civil rights movement. Facing the most daunting of odds-- murder, burnings, lynchings, and grotesquely immoral behavior on the part of the elected officials, they kept fighting for what's right.
We will continue to do so.
We have no choice but to do so. Failure is not an option.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=
&w=916
niyad
(121,351 posts)FreepFryer
(7,086 posts)
Bettie
(17,528 posts)I know I am happy to see one of your posts on any day!
I am pessimistic, based on history. A lot of criminal behavior has been overlooked, but I still hope that this time, maybe, there will be accountability.
I honestly believe though, that the right wing is overplaying their hand and that they will lose in 2022.
If we lose in 2022, then we have to fight harder.
I'd also add, this is a place to vent, to express our fears, to express our frustration among those who are (mostly) on the same side of the political divide.
ratchiweenie
(7,976 posts)bi-polar son moved back in with us. Our finances are strained to the max. I come here to read DU and after about 15 minutes I am so depressed I just sit and have a good cry. Now I come here for the toons and the cat videos. Glad someone said it for me.
Hekate
(95,702 posts)… even more kitties. There’s so much more going on at DU it’s amazing, including Mental Health and other health support groups.
Meanwhile…
ratchiweenie
(7,976 posts)creativity here at DU. Like you say, so much going on here besides politics and TFG posts.
Whiskeytide
(4,518 posts)… already paid quite a price for being who he is. He is a sniveling, insecure coward who may be feared by some, but who has never earned or received the genuine respect he craves from the people he believes are “important”. (His mob of fans may adore him, but that’s not really what he wants).
He’s miserable. He acts smug and arrogant. He pretends. He does really stupid things to promote himself (John Barron? Really? Who does that shit?). He is so afraid of being seen as weak that he tells silly and obvious lies about things like crowd size and hurricane warnings. I suspect losing the 2020 election has been insufferable for him because now his legacy is “LOSER”, and forever will be.
But I don’t think he’ll be prosecuted. I think the powers that be have decided that the political costs to the country are too great, and that any prosecution would merely give him a platform and a chance at martyrdom. I disagree with that personally - but I understand the reasoning.
The fight now is not against Тяцмp. It’s against the facist, racist, anti-democratic monster he awakened in the Republican Party. THAT we can fight and destroy. We have to.
So I don’t sweat the “Тяцмp’s gonna get away with it” posts. Who cares. But I do worry about the election rigging, the gerrymandering, the voter purges and the suppression laws. Those are real problems. Sounding alarms about that shouldn’t be viewed as defeatism, but rather as a call to action. I suppose there is a difference between saying “all is lost” verses “all will be lost if we don’t do something”, but that’s really just semantics.
edhopper
(35,185 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 9, 2022, 01:14 PM - Edit history (1)
reality as a grim, and that what we had hoped for isn't going to happen.
I am sorry if we see an American electorate to stupid to understand what is happening.
I am sorry if the we see the forces that almost destroyed this country still at work and facing no consequences.
Should we shut up because you don't want to read what we write?
Should we not be alarmed that no Trump official has been indicted for Jan 6th and Trump looks to go untouched?
Should we see the Biden Agenda brought down by two recalcitrant Senators and still think the country will thrive?
Should we look away from the anti-democratic actions of the GOP that look to give them Congress and just hum happy tunes?
I am sorry if I see grim times ahead and feel like talking about it.
Is my opinion of what is happening invalid because it is different than yours, or makes you upset.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)mcar
(43,697 posts)the doom and gloomers come out.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)anyone to go on a public forum and complain to others as if they were the hall monitor and entitled to have things their way? If your sick of it, stop using it. It's just that simple.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)doc03
(37,154 posts)there were going to be public hearings early January, then February, then March, last I heard now it will be maybe April
or May. When they have the public hearings and they have the evidence to prosecute Trump and all his minions what about the DOJ?
I saw Adam Schiff on the TV a couple days ago, he said the January 6th Committee can't prosecute anyone that is up to
to the DOJ. I can't feel very optimistic about Trump ever being held accountable when the January 6th Committee keeps walking back
the public hearings and saying we can't prosecute that's up to the DOJ. Donald Trump has made a career of skirting the law and has never been held accountable for anything.
uponit7771
(92,139 posts)... help us this Nov after the GQP anti democracy measures have helped them take the house or the senate and they allow the GQP anti democracy measures to grow at the state level
The USSC has already told America to fuck off and allow GQP anti democracy measures to stand when its "too close to an election"
I think we need to have a rational logical discussion on these issues because they're valid
doc03
(37,154 posts)and the January 6th Committee seems to be lowering expectations for the results of their investigation.
The Republicans seem to be succeeding in running out the clock.
Peacetrain
(23,675 posts)and you are right!!...
Bernardo de La Paz
(51,889 posts)uponit7771
(92,139 posts)...were closer to correct than the ones who asked "...why would anyone think Trump is a threat..." like Chris Mathews did after TFG was elected
Bernardo de La Paz
(51,889 posts)Sentiment here was mostly "it'll be very bad" and the rest, a minority, said "USA is over, done, finished, give up".
uponit7771
(92,139 posts)... problem is there timing and how are we supposed to win in 24 if the GQP takes a house in Nov?
They're going to end all national level efforts to stop their anti democracy measures and the USSC let them know yesterday that's all they have to do is time their AD measures close to an election and they can keep them.
I think people aren't aware of where we're at, its going to be worse than last time and "but we're not going to be in a nuclear winter" attitude of some is not a comforting thought
RobinA
(10,216 posts)Everything all peachy is it? Trump off into the sunset never to be heard from again?
Wait...you were joking, right? Right?
Bernardo de La Paz
(51,889 posts)I suppose people fall into the binary thinking trap, but they sure don't think their way out of it. Regardless, they need to get with the program on this thoughtful site and recognize it and stop.
I objected to one mode of all or nothing (the "USA is finished" that was rife on DU at the time). That does not mean I automatically (the way you suppose) endorse the opposite all or nothing thinking of "peachy".
Yikes. When I wrote "it was going to be bad", what part of "bad" did you not understand?
To clarify it, especially for you, "bad" is neither "finished" nor "peachy", but it is in between those two extremes.
No, I'm not joking. Rather, I am eternally trusting in the comprehension of the readers I write for but am accustomed to disappointment.
llashram
(6,269 posts)you are right... I'm of the same mind on most points
MineralMan
(148,221 posts)See? In fact, you're very popular around here. It's just that a few folks don't like positive posts, and they're very happy to tell everyone that they don't like positive posts or ideas.
They're a minority here. A very vocal minority, but a minority nonetheless.
Keep on doing what you do, please.
JustAnotherGen
(34,041 posts)
I'm of the mindset - we are just getting started here. Nothing is lost - we've JUST begun to bring them to heel.
Silent3
(15,909 posts)...and saying don't bother even trying. Those two things are not the same thing.
If doctors tells me I only have a 5% chance of living beyond six months, I'm going to be very upset. I'm going to take the odds against me seriously enough that I'm not going to make a lot of long-term plans, especially plans where other people depending on me would be screwed if I'm no longer alive.
That doesn't mean I would give up. So long as the trade-off isn't too steep when it comes to treatment options vs. quality of life during my likely last few months, I'd still fight like hell for that 5% chance.
I don't believe in performative optimism, where you pretend your odds are much higher than they really are, as if the universe will reward your for that performance by raising the odds in your favor, simply because you act like the odds are in your favor.
Irish_Dem
(61,350 posts)It actually gives you a survival edge.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... not just here but in many dark corners of the Internet. It's truly bizarre.
obamanut2012
(27,981 posts)The Qs are also addicted to it.
It serves no purpose.
Fiendish Thingy
(19,023 posts)I too have seen the gamut here on DU, from blind Pollyanna-ish optimism “if we just GOTV, Dems will win BIG!”, to the ultra-defeatist “Trump will get away with everything”.
I prefer stark realism that lays out the stakes, and considers the best feasible paths forward. Under the current circumstances, that means that traditional political paradigms, such as GOTV (alone), or lawsuits challenging unconstitutional actions by state legislatures, may not apply, and certainly won’t be enough on their own to stop encroaching fascism and facilitate progressive change.
Hopefully, COVID exhaustion will soon give way to renewed focus and motivation.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers, but I do recognize seismic shifts in the political status quo.
hunter
(39,146 posts)The Republicans are the party of pessimism. They see their "way of life" ( racism, misogyny, religious intolerance, white privilege, etc. ) is under attack and they are fighting for their survival.
I doubt Trump will be anything but a spoiler in the next presidential election, whether or not he actually runs, whether or not he is in prison, whether or not he is alive or dead. ( He'll probably be alive... Dick Cheney is still alive.)
The Democrats are the party of optimism. We are all optimistic about different things and we argue fiercely about how to best accomplish our goals, but overall our party is forward-looking and striving to make the world a better place.
There are many troubles we have to face -- personally I think global warming is the most brutal -- but it will be the optimists who find the tools to deal with these problems, not the pessimists who are fighting to maintain a "way of life" that is no longer viable.
Welcome to 21st century U.S.A. where gay people can be married, a Black woman can be your boss, church attendance is declining, and most people agree that polluting the air and water is a bad idea.
That's a world that scares Republicans but we're not going back to their dying world, however dirty they fight, no matter how much poo and pessimism they fling at us.
pandr32
(12,392 posts)You explained the issue perfectly.
Thank you.
IrishAfricanAmerican
(4,189 posts)
I generally just ignore the hand wringers. We have political weapons and we are using them. GOTV is one but the Jan 6 committee and DOJ are working on their parts as well. The Watergate timeline shows how long a serious investigation can take.
I fully suspect many of the constant complainers do not have sincere intentions and are just here to foment chaos. Some of the others are just your normal, run-of-the-mill worry worrywarts, whose only recourse to an absence of information is to endlessly hatch nightmare scenarios and fret about them. Those people I ignore. Anyone negatively prognosticating about the investigation at this point is just shit stirring as far as I'm concerned.
radical noodle
(8,925 posts)Your posts are always thought-provoking, but in this case, it was desperately needed. The result of all this doom and gloom is that it follows us out the DU door into the real world. It can depress the vote and that's the only way we get this country out of this craziness and back into the light.
Our local Democratic club recently had a speaker who essentially said the same thing. Instead of giving in to defeat we must learn how to fight them on whatever terms are available to us. We can't win wars by using outdated methods. Learn the new rules and find the loopholes. That's not going to happen while being pessimistic, it's only going to be successful if we work together and become more determined than the bad guys.
Andy823
(11,536 posts)You said in much better than I could.
GB_RN
(3,271 posts)And pretty much said that tRump will be indicted by the end of the year, early next year, for crimes related to election fraud. She said that his argument of presidential immunity won't stand up in court, "I don't think that that protection will prevent a prosecution if that becomes necessary in this state case," direct quote. She also stated that, "This is a criminal investigation. We're not here playing a game."
She wouldn't say that on national TV, impanel a grand jury and have conducted a year long investigation already, if she didn't think that she would get an indictment - and be able to get a conviction.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)much will come out of Garland, but I DO think either GA or NY is going to eventually nail his ass.
We shall see.
But, wow! I haven't taken this much heat on DU since I suggested during the Obama administration that RBG should retire.
gab13by13
(25,746 posts)the more I think about this topic the more I think it is foolish to make it into a we vs them argument.
I have zero bad feelings against people who feel that given more time DOJ will act, that's an ok feeling to have.
On the other hand, if I believe that DOJ should be doing more why should I be attacked for wanting accountability? If I am wrong and Garland has this, fantastic.
What I want is for Trump and his inner circle to become toxic, to be looked upon as the traitors they are, and the only way that is going to happen is from indictments and convictions. There are a few cracks in the armor with a handful of Republicans moving away from Trump, Merrick Garland can split that crack wide open.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)if he doesn't.
I really DO believe, though, that NY and/or GA will come through. Eventually.
But accountability for inciting an insurrection is really important for the future of our Democracy.
GB_RN
(3,271 posts)Are making sure to dot their i's and cross their t's multiple times over before charging Hair Gropin' Führer, I suspect that Garland and the DOJ are probably doing that to the nth degree before they'd charge him. It goes without saying that charging Dolt45 at the federal level is fraught with issues - not to mention a politically charged precedent. Today's GOPQ would take any minor issue and come back on a Democratic president with a vengeance (look at what Gingrich and company did to Clinton as revenge for Nixon). I'd be willing to bet, that IF it's at all possible, Garland would prefer to see Agent Orange dealt with at the state level, just due to the politics involved.
I'm not saying that Tangerine Idi Amin shouldn't be prosecuted for seditious conspiracy, obstruction of Congress, obstruction of an official act of Congress, obstruction of justice, witness tampering/intimidation, and all the various, sundry and sordid crimes he committed - he definitely should (in my humble opinion)! What I am saying is that, to use the CIA term and borrow from Rumsfeld, there's a whole lot of known blowback that WILL happen, known-unknown blowback, and unknown-unknown blowback that can/will occur with a federal prosecution (and/or conviction). That unknown blowback probably weighs more on them than the known. Is it excusable? I don't know. It will take better minds than mine to second guess a decision not to prosecute.
Stuart G
(38,726 posts)There might not be a 2nd time. That is why it is taking so long. The powers that be want to get it right..THIS TIME
......Is there anyone who has seen it all, and been through a whole lot that is making sure that this time we get
......it totally correct?...Anyone around who has lots of experience in seeing it all...YES SEEING IT ALL??....
...WELL, YOU DON'T SAY ??, .......YES, THERE IS SOMEONE WHO HAS SEEN A WHOLE LOT AND IS VERY SMART,
...AND KNOWS THAT YOU TAKE YOUR TIME TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS SO IMPORTANT AS INDICTING, TRYING, AND
CONVICTING A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES?....does that person have the power to do something...
Yes, that person does have the power, and is taking time to get it totally correct...Can you guess who that fellow is?
...................Good Luck..............Maybe you can guess, & Maybe you can't. Maybe you can talk to Mr. Obama.
...................He knows who we are talking about..He worked with the fellow, & knows him well...
........................................I think the fellow who is taking time, will get it right this time.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GB_RN
(3,271 posts)100%.
I wasn't arguing that the DOJ will sit this out. I hope that my post didn't come across that way.
RobinA
(10,216 posts)This is definitely not the time when being Pollyanna is the percentage bet. And you were right about RBG, as much good as she did and as much as I admire her.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)Neither of us knows what the outcome will be and neither of us knows what is going on in the DOJ. All we have are opinions.
I am able to hear their opinion without insulting them, calling them trolls, misrepresenting them or calling them bad Democrats.
They for some reason, as we can see in this thread, do not seem to be able to return that favor.
I suggest it is because of what Meowmee said in her post: "If people felt secure in their assessments that everything is a ok in the state of Denmark then other peoples views on it wouldn't bother them."
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Not even just specifically on DU but in the populace as a whole.
And while they rend their clothes, shriek and dramatically fall to the floor and flail; the rest of us donate to candidates and knock on doors to get people registered and get out every vote that can be found.
pazzyanne
(6,634 posts)I came here 5 years ago, after the last administration took office. DU was a welcoming place that helped restore optimism and calm to my life. Discussions were lively, but respectful. In recent months I have watched with dismay the actual open "attacks" made by some during discussions. The discussions morph into actual arguments. I have always thought of DU as a team, where everyone is respected. Asking questions that seek information seem more constructive imho. Please check what your goal is before posting. Remember we are all on the same team - a team of Democrats.
obamanut2012
(27,981 posts)
pazzyanne
(6,634 posts)I see this as an attack on me. Thank you for proving my point! 
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)on DU - really epic - about whether to use corn flakes in your coating when you are frying chicken. It's one of DUs epic nonsense fights, like the ones over pit bulls, breast feeding and the olive garden.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Do you even know what you mean? What an interesting place of privilege. '
(Someone gifted me with that one, and no, I don't know what it means. 
)
hamsterjill
(15,558 posts)I have great concern about Trump and his continuing influence in the world at large. I believe I am justifiably concerned.
I don’t see him charged with anything and it’s been over a year now - longer if you count the time he was in office when our side SHOULD have been preparing to go after him at the first opportunity. I have said numerous times on DU that I will gladly eat a bucket of crow and announce that I was wrong should that change.
To me, it’s not about a negative viewpoint. It’s simple reality. The asshole has gotten away with everything that he’s tried thus far with no one stopping him. I think he and Putin rigged the 2016 election. Hillary moved on, so the rest of us did as well. But I’ve never stopped believing that something just wasn’t right there. AND since the M/O of Republicans always seems to be to accuse their opponents of doing the things which they themselves actually did, that bolsters my thinking.
I was surprised and shocked when Trump was declared the winner. I do not intend to be surprised and shocked again at him breaking the rules, not playing fair, being ruthless and ugly and committing crimes. There are obvious crimes that have been committed and many legal scholars are calling for the DOJ to move now. Why? Because time is of the essence. Every click of the clock benefits Trump as we get closer to the midterms.
We aren’t going to win against Republicans by playing nice any more. The playing field has changed. We’ve got to outsmart them and out connive them. That is reality - not choice.
If some disagree here, then I’m fine with that. But I am never going to sugarcoat reality. If that’s considered “negative” by some here, then you will simply have to accept my right to disagree with you or put me on Ignore. I am not here to trample anyone’s feelings but neither am I here to tread lightly. Having no fucks to give runs in several different directions and I arrived at that long ago.
I want Trump in jail so that I can feel safe again and until that happens, he will be a continuing threat. I do not relish a repeat of the last time he sat in the Oval Office. And don’t anyone dare tell me that can’t happen again because no one really believed it could have happened the first time.
FakeNoose
(36,270 posts)There must be a way to stop this on DU because it's not productive.
If we keep telling ourselves that "all is lost" then we're just helping the evil empire, and they don't deserve our help.
Thanks for this, NanceGreggs! You're awesome!
marble falls
(62,739 posts)... of the system which is working to the ultimate goal to bring 45 to the Bar.
He's going down, and he's going down totally. It's way beyond the point of him getting away with much of significance.
blm
(113,901 posts)redstatebluegirl
(12,514 posts)relayerbob
(7,078 posts)They know how to push buttons and sound like leftists … they’ve been working this angle since 2016 in a number of forums. Their goals are are the same though: disruption, division, and discouragement.
Keep on fighting the good fight!
emanymton69
(125 posts)We the people, are winning. Do not get discouraged. Focus on what brings us together.
Public discourse is absolutely imperative.
The people support us. The people see the truth. The people know the facts.
The power brokers in Washington and New York I have no idea of what's going to come in 2022's election.
Hang in there.
Be safe.
emanymton69
(125 posts)(https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216331968)
Stay together.
Democrats Deliver!
AZSkiffyGeek
(12,672 posts)They want Trump in irons paraded across the TV for them to mock. They don't care if the case is thrown out, or if a jury finds him innocent, they want that warm feeling of him (and Gaetz, and Jordan, and Guiliani, and Bannon etc) getting perp-walked. What happens after that doesn't matter. They KNOW that he's a traitor so he should hang. Nevermind the pesky Constitution that guarantees him a fair trial of his peers.
And you know damn well that they will blame Garland, the DOJ and Biden if Trump is arrested, tried and walks. Ignoring the fact that they will blame Garland, the DOJ and Biden if Trump appeals everything to the Supreme Court and it gets tossed. Because it will somehow be Biden's fault that SCOTUS is entrenched Conservative.
Trump has unleashed the latent authoritarians on both sides of the aisle.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)AZSkiffyGeek
(12,672 posts)So does it really matter? The results are the same. Screaming for "justice" because they "know" that the "evidence" "proves" that Trump is a "traitor". When they're really just some nobody behind a computer screen with zero inkling of the process or what is being done.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)done.
Some think a lot is being done. Some think little is being done. Both sides have their reasons. For me the Jan 6 committee's prodding of Garland suggests to me that little is being done.
Personally, I don't believe tfg will be held accountable by Garland. Personally, apparently, you do.
I can hear your opinion without insulting you, calling you a troll, or suggesting you are a bad Democrat.
Those who are certain the DOJ will bring tfg down do not seem to be able to do the same.
As evidenced in this thread.
dlk
(12,515 posts)Now isn’t the time to act like we’re hopeless/helpless. Instead, it’s the time for action, whether something large like registering voters or small, like calling your elected representative. Handwringing in fear is not an option when so much is on the line. There isn’t a moment to waste.
orangecrush
(22,325 posts)Is what the disinformation is intended to get us to do.
Not believing in our institutions, is how we lose democracy.
And once lost, we will never get it back.
Over my dead body.
hamsterjill
(15,558 posts)The fact that nothing is done to Trump makes ME want to fight even harder to keep our democracy. The posters saying everything is moving as it should are (to me) the ones who are allowing the loss to occur by not pushing for more action.
I can respect your viewpoint. Are you willing to respect mine?
boston bean
(36,551 posts)Seems a bit backwards ,being told to remain silent and sit back and trust is more of a threat.
hamsterjill
(15,558 posts)To me, those of us pushing for action are the ones trying to keep democracy safe. We realize the threat and aren’t content to just sit back and see what’s going to happen. We want to be proactive. There’s a post in this thread suggesting that some of us want vengeance rather than justice. I believe we seek justice, but if vengeance gets Trump put in jail, I’m okay with that part
Appreciate your reply.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)It's that cartoon with the dog in the burning room saying, "This is fine."
Celerity
(47,326 posts)orangecrush
(22,325 posts) FelineOverlord
(3,773 posts)There were so many "DOJ is not doing anything" threads one day that I got exasperated.
Perhaps there should be a separate forum just for discussing the January 6th investigation.
This is the biggest criminal investigation in American history.
There are literally thousands of people involved (if you include the rioters).
Every week we find our MORE about what Trump and his minions were up to (and all the crimes he committed before and after January 6th).
Emile
(31,539 posts)I mean we were awful damn close to a fascist takeover of our Democratic Republic just 13 months ago. People expect justice!
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)For me, and I've said this many times, I think the best justice is for trump to watch him fail. Watch his businesses fail. Watch his candidates fail (which is why I support Adam kinzingers voting plan). Becoming irrelevant is the worst punishment for him. Putting him in prison, which would never really be "PRISON", would only energize his supporters & make him a martyr.
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)Perhaps they are trolls here to cause trouble or perhaps they are folks who think fear of a trump takeover will motivate others to vote and be more active.
For me, seeing what is going on around the world, Canadian truckers for example. Does create fear of the future. However my reaction is not to give up but to continue in my pursuit of a better life for my children/grandchildren and your's also.
Carry on my friends, carry on!
CaptainTruth
(7,327 posts)I'll have more to say about this (all good) after my coffee kicks in.
For now I'll just say:
LizBeth
(10,943 posts)Especially the last five years. No, I do not think their will be any repercussions at all. So, lets wait and see. If that cause you a problem because evidence of the pasts suggests what the future will look like, then well, yours to deal with.
Tommymac
(7,334 posts)They are the devil that brings down retribution on their own head.
To them I do say pass the popcorn.
housecat
(3,138 posts)Escurumbele
(3,686 posts)I myself have complained about people writing the wrong scripts, never give up is what needs to be the mindset of everyone, we need to fight these thugs, and we need to educate people we know.
I send everyone I know information, I imagine some of them have placed my emails to go directly to junk or filter them out, but I will get to someone, and to get one person to understand what is going one, to get that person to repudiate the criminal actions of republicans is a win-win.
Thank you for writing the truth and always doing it so beautifully, I always look forward to your posts.
nolabear
(43,345 posts)We couldn’t do ourselves more harm if we tried. I guess people fear being shamed for not being hysterical enough. I don’t know. I DO know about brain chemistry and how much harm endless fearmongering can do.
kacekwl
(7,746 posts)I'm 65 now. I have protested against Republican candidates who lie cheat and steal. I've protested and attended rallies to support gun control and healthcare reform. I've called and met with my representatives to make my views known. I've stood outside collecting signatures for Democratic candidates. I'm don't consider myself a concern troll a defeatist. I thought with Obama winning we could FINALLY have the government we need to move ahead and many good things did move forward despite McConnell obstruction on everything. Then along comes trump and I never ever thought a known lowlife reality clown could ever get close being president of the US. Because of billionaire money, forgien involvement, voter restriction, right wing media propaganda, we end up with trump. I'm droning on so my point is Democracy almost ended and is at risk daily because of all the same shit that brought trump to power and more. The trump years were far worse than I imagined and if things don't change soon democracy may likely end as we know it. I think we have a small window to get a lot done so my concern is if urgency passing laws, criminal prosecution etc. is not heeded things will go very badly. If this is doom and gloom so be it.
Tom Rinaldo
(23,018 posts)Well said as usual
senseandsensibility
(20,529 posts)I personally blame the media. Every story since TFG appeared has had the undertone of "everything's useless, his base will never leave him," and now "the nomination is his if he wants it", not to mention the total "downer" coverage of Joe Biden. I think some of it is bound to affect even loyal Dems. I also think it's deliberate.
Emile
(31,539 posts)PortTack
(35,039 posts)Irish_Dem
(61,350 posts)
nvme
(871 posts)Sometime our message gets lost beneath the shouting of the opposition. We play by the rules that the opposition will not follow. The more we can find a unified message that will appeal to the broader public, the more likely we will attract those undecided voters to see we offer the better alternative to what is being screamed at them.
JuJuChen
(2,253 posts)Tree Lady
(12,205 posts)And it's hard to break out of that.
After Trump and covid life gets more challenging to stay positive with hope.
I tend to look for the more hopeful posts each day but I read both.
If there are those here who choose to share their fears we also need a balance of those who share hope for the future.
I think we are seeing less hope last 5 years here and it has effected this site.
Joinfortmill
(16,872 posts)
GoneOffShore
(17,664 posts) TeamProg
(6,630 posts)defeat as urged by the nay-sayers, the "Trump is untouchable" crowd, the people who insist that justice cannot possibly be done. ""
What, maybe 1 in 3,000 posts ?
Just because some of us are complaining about the speed that prosecutions are coming doesn't mean we're all giving up hope.
I'm just not getting that here these days.
Still, have a heart Nance!
Enoki33
(1,605 posts)it needed to be said in such an elegant manner. Thank you.
Dan
(4,193 posts)That the stink of Trump, the more that things are exposed - the harder it is going to be for the GOP to remove the stain.
Trump and his minions have done so much that is not only illegal, but immoral, indecent and just wrong - that really even for some sane republicans will be hard to swallow.
I’m hoping that the full Mueller report (unredacted) is released - and how he used the powers of the Presidency to thwart justice.
I still can’t believe that the idea of a hidden computer server connection to the Russian embassy isn’t / wasn’t covered more.
Trump is a turd that has been put on the Thanksgiving dinner table, it has a cover over it, but it’s starting to stink - and someone(s) are taking the cover off the turd for our full smelling and viewing pleasure. It’s going to mess up the meal for everyone.
I think Moscow Mitch (hate him, but he is no dummy) knows what’s under the cover and is trying to move his family to the furthest reaches of the table - away from the turd. But there is no escape, no escape for all of us.
Kaleva
(38,774 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 9, 2022, 01:05 PM - Edit history (1)
jalan48
(14,596 posts)slowing down mail delivery right before the 2020 election when states had expanded vote by mail because of the pandemic. Why did he do this? The obvious answer was to help Trump win the election. It's bullshit like this that makes me pessimistic about our Party and nation as a whole. It's like looking for the upside when you drive by a house on fire.
sheshe2
(88,764 posts)Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)
traitorsgalore This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kaleva
(38,774 posts)I find it interesting that the people who are the most vocal about what they say "we" or others must do aren't themselves willing to lift a finger to help accomplish the goal they claim is so important
RobinA
(10,216 posts)Maybe people say those things because that's what they think? Fear? Did you come here to discuss the politics of the day only with people who see things the way you do?
And as far as the "trump is untouchable" crowd, maybe they are just reporting what they see.
greatauntoftriplets
(177,118 posts)Vinca
(51,391 posts)person for that matter - of being a bit discouraged. Would you or I be in jail already if we'd done a fraction of Trump's shenanigans? We all know the answer to that. I don't think we've given up by a long shot, but our parade has certainly been rained on for an extended period of time.
wendyb-NC
(3,925 posts)I agree with all that you said. It's a harrowing time. To me though, it is time to do what I can to go against the all is lost, because it isn't. To do that is to get sucked into the swirling river of dystopian ambiguity, chaos, and confusion, enabling division. It is allowing those who wish to destroy our hard won democracy to tear it down. We can't let them.
I am working as a precinct chair in my community, for our local Democratic Party. Our group met recently to organize a robust plan for mid-term elections and beyond. GOTV, contacting democratic voters, offering voter registration at community wide events in the general community, such as festivals, and speaking to high school students along with voter education programs.
Our state recently had the new, 2022 electoral maps by the States republican party, deemed illegally gerrymandered, in an appeal to the NC Supreme Court. Now they must be redrawn. There is good news, all the time, we have to embrace it and have hope.
William769
(56,354 posts)"This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine". That's how I feel about you here on DU.
Please let it keep shining bright here. Love Ya! 
tenderfoot
(8,974 posts)eom
TeamProg
(6,630 posts)will be halved by 2030 as needed to pause global warming then that Trump, his family and his cronies will be prosecuted, convicted and sentenced to prison.
I'm not sure if that is a good thing either, though!
Wish us luck.
DeeNice
(579 posts)The defeatism is exasperating. And I'm pretty much still a noob on here but I've recognized it as a persistent refrain.
Sympthsical
(10,411 posts)Which I suspect was known when the ink was contemplated.
"Anti-democratic and allowed." Maybe we could form some kind of . . . committee. Where, when someone says something that others do not want to hear or contemplate, we can zero in on that person and ostracize or excommunicate them in some way. The person speaking is clearly being unDemocratic. Just a body to expunge people who have unacceptable thoughts. I dunno. I'll leave the actual organization to others.
This stuff reminds me of the "I Got This" meme from many moons ago. But genuinely looking at the course of the nation, does anyone think, in the end, that the politicians had that? 2016 was all, "Hillary's Got This" and anyone who said otherwise was a concern trolling Eyeore defeatist, and why are you harshing my mellow, man?
So, on balance and with objective history recently behind us . . . how has that all worked out?
I still say this, "Don't Worry!" stuff comes from the comfortable class. As a Millennial, I know of very few people my age or younger who are looking at what has gone on and what is currently going on and thinking, "This is fine. You know, I should just trust everyone involved and not fret. They've got this!"
You have to be comfortable to hold that belief. You have to be in a cushy chair and observing politics as a kind of sport or soap opera to not be greatly concerned - if not outright bothered and cynical - about what goes on with our government and justice system.
But this isn't soap opera and sport. People's lives depend on these things. Maybe not the lives of the comfortable class, but I know my entire life and those of my peers has been deeply affected by the deterioration of government and a political class that has allowed it to happen. If not enough accountability is brought, the deterioration continues.
Eventually, if you don't reach a point of, "This shit needs to fucking stop. Now." and refuse to keep quiet anymore, I question whether that person is really all that invested in the outcomes.
Maybe they got theirs, and all this theater on social media is just a way to pass time. Doesn't really matter. They're not affected by it in the end. No, maybe Michael Flynn has an evil twin. AMG, twist! And Breibart isn't really dead. He's coming back next season. I heard it from a friend who knows a producer.
Because that's what this all sounds like to me. Uninvested fandom rather than serious concern about our policies, government, and the direction we have been moving in for some time.
Scrivener7
(53,546 posts)
maxsolomon
(35,505 posts)and anyone who's used IOKIYAR over the decades.
As other pessimists have already said, I am all in favor of the investigations. I just don't think any of them will result in "locking him up", or locking up any of his enablers. Only the pawns will see prison time.
Woodwizard
(1,085 posts)I cant count the wildly optimistic Trumps going down posts I have read on here especially during the unfortunate 4 years of him in office. Almost like the same echo chamber I see on right wing forums, yes I go on them to see what is going on in crazyland.
As to being pessimistic there are some, but so are the over the top stuff in the other direction. How many times was Limbaugh, Gaetz and the tens of other right wing nuts impending demise predicted? And................nothing
I don't post much, I have been a visitor since the beginning in the Bush years, things go in cycles I mostly come to see articles. I do tend to lean in the camp of not much will happen after the dust settles certainly no jail time for Trump and for the other tie ups in court maybe a slap on the hand, it not being a pessimist it is how it is. In a world that actually had moral courage Trump would have been behind bars by Jan 7 the evidence was all right there.
I am glad that people can post within reason and not have a fear of being banned by being what the right wingers call "Dooming".
bluestarone
(18,514 posts)I really wish, that when we see TFG, and ALL his minions get what they deserve, we could ALL meet each other and have one GRAND OL CELEBRATION!!! Some days i feel some gloom BUT i know i have many friends here. VERY SMART friends!! WE WILL kick ass because WE HAVE TOO!!! Here's my hat tip to you and ALL my friends!! On to VICTORY!!
LetMyPeopleVote
(156,616 posts)Many if not most members of this board are still fighting. I have a zoom meeting tomorrow night on voter protection, and we are gearing up to fight the latest GOP voter suppression law. Texas will turn blue with the hard work of people on tbe ground who are not going to give up.
Democracy is not a lost cause unless we stop fighting to protect it. I for one will not stop fighting to help turn Texas blue and I will fight to protect our democratic form of government. TFG is not untouchable and I truly believe that TFG will be held to acocunt
Thank you for your post
hay rick
(8,394 posts)I agree.
If you are discouraged, what is the point of posting that sentiment? To discourage others? To tell them why they should be discouraged? To tell them it is ok to feel discouraged- they have company? To tell them it is ok to surrender to the inevitable and seek comfort instead of engagement?
Yes, there are reasons to feel discouraged- but those reasons should be viewed as a call to fight back harder. This country was formed by those who fought and died to take it away from a king. Many lives were given to keep it away from those who would maintain and extend human slavery. Many lives were given to stop a fascist dictatorship that threatened us only indirectly. So far, we have only been called on to sacrifice time, convenience, and effort. If more is required, it is our turn.
Stargleamer
(2,305 posts)to let TFG get away with obstructing justice, IS the point.
And in order for them to see how urgent it is we can remind them that there are deadlines:
Link to tweet
Venting here just isn't just venting. It is also an implicit call to action. And writing to Garland's office might very well be futile, but WTF else can we do?
Also, we have been waiting for justice for years now, if you count all of Trump's crimes going back decades. So we are understandably wanting to vent in a friendly forum.
Hekate
(95,702 posts) Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)
Kingofalldems This message was self-deleted by its author.
LetMyPeopleVote
(156,616 posts)Living in deep red Texas can be a pain. I and a good number of Democrats are fighting to turn Texas blue. The GOP is going all out to stop us with gerrymandered districts and voter suppression laws. Despite these obstacles we will fight
Link to tweet
betsuni
(27,361 posts)Cha
(306,272 posts) LetMyPeopleVote
(156,616 posts)I have been working on turning Texas blue for almost 20 years. I am not alone in these efforts. We had a ton of lawyers in the 2020 voter protection efforts and I got to play with Slack, the DNC voter protection data base If I worried about being defeated or not winning, I would not have stuck with with these efforts. The GOP is really worried and so the Texas GOP have doubled down on voter suppression and gerrymandered districts. This is not going to stop us from continuing to work on turning Texas blue. There is a zoom call with the state party tomorrow night on voter protection efforts for the primary. We do not need poll watchers or a boiler/war room normally for the primary, but it will not hurt to start the process.
Cha
(306,272 posts)in Texas, LMPV!
Your Attitude is Inspiring.. in spite of Against the Odds.. you're Determined to Fight ON and Never Give UP!
Paladin
(29,132 posts)I wish we had seen this thread's anger and spirit on display, throughout the trump era. Things might have been a hell of a lot different, present-day.
Hekate
(95,702 posts)betsuni
(27,361 posts)or secretly Republican "I got mine," or at least naive/stupid. Of course Democrats are blamed for allowing/letting all the bad things happen (both sides both sides both sides both sides). These types of people often use the word "oligarchs."
Hekate
(95,702 posts)betsuni
(27,361 posts) Cha
(306,272 posts)to you earlier that I hadn't seen anything like That.. but then I started reading some more..
& Sure enough.
TY for you for your posts.💙
Sympthsical
(10,411 posts)And that's cool. Warm toes are important.
Also cheaper than comfortable shoes most of the time.
betsuni
(27,361 posts)Why? What's the point?
Hekate
(95,702 posts)Isn’t he cute? Sometimes I just want to pinch his chubby cheeks like the old auntie I am.
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)I applaud your optimism. However actions are what makes the world go around not words. I have been around long enough and been attentive enough to realize that the justice system is certainly not operating as it has when you look at the historical behavior of the department. No reasonable person can say otherwise.
DT has certainly taken a novel approach in gaming the system by flooding it with one instance after another of dubious if not criminal actions and so far it appears the DOJ is either pushing a mountain of caution ahead of itself concerning any actions it may take or it genuinely does not know how to handle DT.
This would not be so bad if it was not for the fact that everyday it seems DT, the GOP and the Right continues their assault on Democracy or should I say they are allowed to continue do so because they continue to not be held accountable for anything. Not the coup they attempted or the almost 1 million Americans that have died nor the numerous other violations committed right out in the open from Emoluments violations to Hatch Act violations or the most recent one shredding of documents that should be at the National Archives not be....shredded or in a box in some back room at a Florida golf course.
Given this it is understandable that people would think the towel has already been thrown in the ring.
Emile
(31,539 posts)Good news!
Skittles
(160,873 posts)they started a WAR based on lies and were never held accountable
Russia helped install Trump into the White House and no one was held accountable
the Supreme Court has been trashed with conservative hacks
stuff like that leads to pessimism
11 Bravo
(24,079 posts)Not now, not ever.
Cha
(306,272 posts) Nance: 
grantcart
(53,061 posts)
Just_Vote_Dem
(3,206 posts)You'll never be unpopular with me
Cha
(306,272 posts)
electric_blue68
(19,349 posts)past experience is affecting some DU'rs.
I have my moments but 95+% of the time I quote
Saint Yogi:
It ain't over, till it's over!" 👍
CaptainTruth
(7,327 posts)I'll also say you have inspired me. I've been thinking about posting more positive items to DU, specifically how we ALL can help GOTV & ensure a Democratic majority, & you have inspired me to do just that.
Thank you.
Cha
(306,272 posts)be Wildly Appreciated!
Aviation91
(121 posts) 
seta1950
(943 posts)Applause 👏🏼
nini
(16,773 posts)There’s always been those pot stirrers here.
That’s why I have a healthy ignore list.
denbot
(9,916 posts) AntiFascist
(12,976 posts)WHY?!!
samplegirl
(12,351 posts)outcome will be. But one thing is for sure these fucking republicans and their filth have been an Apocalypse on this country.
If you love this country we must all stand United and fight back with every inch of hair on our heads.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,984 posts)How and when that will happen needs to unfold. But I hope it crushes him.
Secondly I am scared. I dont want the fascists to win. I know they wont win but its a struggle with my fear that fuels and doubts I have. I am very vulnerable in my situation and a fascist takeover Id be fucked because of the targets rightwing freaks draw on people like me. I would die or be murdered in short order.
So forgive me at being horrified and sometimes scared when I think too much . I think I might be preparing myself for any unrest of the boorishly stupid rightwing nuts might try to do when tfg gets frogmarched out of our lives.
The dems will make it happen and tfg will be taken away, in chains
How that unfolds with his crazy magats everywhere is what scares me.
DFW
(57,003 posts)You are going to have try a LOT harder than that
But then, I have it easy, as I agree with you.
OverBurn
(1,120 posts)Briefly. I've never been happier politically than when Obama was elected. Slowly lost my enthusiasm after years of Republicans blocking SC Judges and just about everything else. Never been lower than after Hillary lost. I mostly blame butt hurt Bernie Dems for the defeat. We as Dems can never come together. Repukes as vile as they have been stick together. They pound a message to death. Hell we can't even pass Biden's budget with a supposed majority. We're in here right now arguing over who's not cheery enough, give me a F'ing break.
I know several people who where Obama voters that are now Trumpers. I know that makes no sense whatsoever, politically or rationally. That's why I'm so gloomy. The country has gone nuts. I've read so many things about how Biden is ruining our country, they can't come up with one reason why they believe that, but that doesn't stop them. Reality doesn't exist for at least 1/3 of the country and it seems to be spreading. The really bad thing is the crazies are way more motivated.
If and when Trump or any Congressman actually has to stand trial and pay for what they've done. I'll no longer be a doom and gloomer. Until then I'm a happily unhappy doom and gloomier. Your guys label.
Demovictory9
(34,133 posts)spreading like in a zombie movie. In our highly tech world, they don't even believe in science anymore.
Kaleva
(38,774 posts)Only about 2% of the adult population watches Fox News.
Out of the millions of folks who voted for TFG in 2020, only about 30k went to Washington D.C on Jan 6th to protest and out of that 30k, 800 attacked the Capitol.
Your comment:
"We as Dems can never come together."
Yet if one goes to FR, you'll see post after post complaining how they, Republicans, can never come together and their party is filled with Never Trumpers, GOPe, Deep State operatives, Neocons and RINOs. Their assesment of themselves is far different then your assemetn of them.
SouthernDem4ever
(6,618 posts)It's the same BS we hear when media make statements like "they expect the repugs to take over congress in the midterms" as if it should be a matter of fact and not a bigger alarm to the rest of society. When those types realize they are actually supporting their own demise it will be too late. I am not ready to let that happen. If we don't take civil action now, we'll have to deal with violence later. Holy crap, we saw the beginning of the violence at the capitol. Do people think that was the end of it? It should be a matter of self preservation for ourselves and our country but people are too lazy to take action. When they are confronted with it and are forced to do something, it will be too late. We can't let the lying morons take over. Those same morons enable the awful militia types who are running around with machine guns ready to kill en masse. They are too crazy and backward thinking to be reasoned with. Starting with Trump and including anyone else in government involved with Jan 6 needs to be purged from our government, preferably purged from society all together.
betsuni
(27,361 posts)Democrats "don't fight," blaming them for not knowing the future and not doing everything exactly right, not stopping bad things as evidence of corruption. Both sides both sides both sides oligarchs status quo give up.
I don't care if Trump and Republicans aren't in jail or whatever because it doesn't matter. Republicans will always keep on being criminals. Doesn't matter if they're convicted of crimes, they'll keep doing what they do. They think they're right.
dalton99a
(85,335 posts)
efhmc
(15,066 posts)in Houston (where I lived at the time) "The National Women's Conference of 1977 was a four-day event during November 18–21, 1977, as organized by the National Commission on the Observance of International Women's Year. The conference drew around, 2,000 delegates along with 15,000-20,000 observers in Houston, Texas. Wikipedia" I naively thought our state (and nation) surely would go forward to even more progressive actions. However, I completely under estimated the far right's hold on our oil based economy and the religious community's stranglehold on the concept of women as secondary human beings. Any person who participated in that conference who was fast forwarded to the present would be disgusted at what our state has become. The most progressive woman in our local Dem group labels me an optimist. Sadly no longer true.