Yesterday I saw something I have never seen before.

[byronius]

I went to the Macy's at Downtown Plaza in Sacramento to get a pair of pants. Hadn't been there in a long time; I telework, and so even though my building is downtown I haven't been there in more than six months.

I parked in the underground garage and climbed the metal stairs to the surface -- a door let me out at the west end of the mall, right near the Macy's. The mall has an open-air corridor all the way through the center of it, and as I walked past it to get to the Macy's side door on the other side --

"DON'T PANIC!" I heard someone shout. From the corridor I heard other people shouting, a woman screamed -- and then suddenly from either side of the escalator in the center, I saw what the tumult was about.

Perhaps twenty to thirty (sixty?) high school kids were riding electric bikes at high speed right toward me, all of them popping wheelies, fat front tires spinning in the air as they came on at maybe twenty miles an hour --

"DON'T PANIC!" I saw one of the front riders shout again. I froze in place, trying to judge what to do next -- a kid coming right at me was having a tough time holding the wheelie, wobbling back and forth with a look of concern --

At the last second he lost it, and veered right at me. These bikes are heavy, with the big battery on the bottom below the pedals, heavy frames and super-fat tires -- if he hit me it was going to do some serious damage, so I judged the distance and jumped back to let him clear me -- right into the path of another kid roaring by right behind me. I scooted forward a millimeter and both kids shot by me so closely I felt the air pulse from both sides.

The rest weren't as close, but they were moving fast. A couple behind me shouted as they were nearly run down -- another man in front of me dodged a close call as the literal horde of electric bikes streamed by us -- and then the kids were gone, laughing harshly and whooping as they escaped down the wide concrete path that led past the Holiday Inn and toward the freeway.

I stood there for a moment, caught in the rush of fight-or-flight adrenaline -- and shock at a brand-new thing I'd never seen before. I felt like an elder witnessing the birth of a new generation, a bubbling up of tension and frustration I hadn't known existed.

The guy in front of me caught my eye, shook his head and cursed quietly. The couple behind me clutched at each other and looked around and into the mall corridor as if there might be more -- and then we all finally returned to our paths. I went into the Macy's with my heart still pounding.

I asked the sales clerk about it as I paid. "We can't stop them," she whispered, and looked around her as if they might hear her. "Sometimes they come in the store and ride around, go up and down the escalators and scare everybody." I raised my eyes with disbelief, but she nodded her head affirmatively.

As I walked back to the car I stayed light on my feet and kept my eyes on the corridor -- nothing but regular mall shoppers, though. I thought about it as I walked down to the car -- while I've been staying in my house working on my double screens with my laptop, the world had changed. I hadn't kept up.

I'm not the guy to judge these kids. I did some really stupid stuff at that age, and even after that age -- I get it. I've just never seen that particular manifestation of teen angst before -- an electric-bike high school gang terrorizing a big mall to display their feelings of anxiety and powerlessness in the face of an uncertain future.

"Don't panic!" Indeed. Thanks for that at least, kids. And good luck to us all.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

1. Stand still, spread your arms wide and shout at them "Don't panic!". . . . . nt

[czarjak]

2. Any video?

[byronius]

4. Didn't even have my phone on me.

But even if I had -- no way. It was all over in thirty seconds.

[lagomorph777]

64. The mall surely has security cameras. Does Sacramento have police?

[50 Shades Of Blue]

3. I judge the fucking hell out of them and their parents. They will badly injure if not kill somebody.

I can't believe Macy's is looking the other way.

[Bev54]

7. And if one of them dies from falling and getting run over by others, the

parents will sue the bike manufacturer. These bikes are not cheap and as he said they are heavy

[Rebl2]

15. EXACTLY

[intrepidity]

5. I haven't personally witnessed this yet, but

it was becoming a regular complaint on Nextdoor around last summer.

Most ascribed its origins to all the kids having been out of school for so long, and being bored.

Sounds scary as hell, and I for one would've panic'd

[dem4decades]

6. Republicans will run on this as Democrats being soft on crime.

It's already happening near me.

[Skittles]

8. I call BS they can't stop them

this is dangerous activity and they need to be forcibly removed if needed

[shrike3]

48. How can they simply be allowed in there when it's private property?

Weird.

[Skittles]

49. it's ridiculous

I know where I live it would not be tolerated, end of story.

[Silver Gaia]

57. They can get in easily. This is not a typical mall. It's an open-air mall in the downtown area.

It was created many years ago by closing off part of a downtown city street and building upper levels above the street. It is connected at one end to a touristy part of town called Old Sac. It is possible there to just walk (or in this case, bike) into the mall. No doors. You couldn't drive in, but these bikes could get in. There are other ways they could get in through parking garages. It's not like you could stop them at an entrance such as malls surrounded by parking lots have. This is different.

[shrike3]

63. But what about Macy's itself?

I see what you're getting at. The structure of the mall itself allows for easy entry. Not your mom's shopping mall, so to speak.

Maybe "disturbing the peace" is a thing only for the movies. Then again, I don't know Sacramento's laws.

[Silver Gaia]

73. The last time I was there was pre-covid, but as I recall

most stores have open doors to the mall with gates they lock at closing, or they have sliding auto-open doors. Either method would allow easy access for these bikes.

Apparently, this is a relatively new thing. I am sure they (the mall, the stores, the police, the city) are working on a solution. It is a hazardous situation (and a lot of money has been put into this area in reccent years, too). But in the meantime, I can see how they feel powerless to actually STOP them within the mall or stores without increasing the danger of someone getting hurt or killed. And these are kids, not adults, so that complicates things further.

[shrike3]

74. I cannot imagine the situation being allowed to stand.

Think of the liability. A shopper injured. A cyclist injured. Possibilities are endless.

[Silver Gaia]

75. I agree!

I personally think city council should deal with it. Make it illegal to ride electric bikes in malls and stores and attach a hefty fine. ID the kids with store cams and fine the parents. It would stop.

[Oneironaut]

68. Usually in these events there are 100s of kids, unfortunately.

They block off streets / highways, and go around destroying shit. I think the cops calculate that it would be more destructive stopping them. Most of them are minors, so they really wouldn’t get much punishment anyways.

[Archae]

9. I have an e-bike, but would never pull shit like this.

These are spoiled brats who need to be busted.

[Cozmo]

10. There is a fear out there that crimes can't be stopped

My local Walgreens sells liquor and it's a known fact that anyone can go in and steal liquor and they will not be stopped or prosecuted. The clerks don't want to endanger themselves and rightly so. Security is in place, yet nothing is done.

[druidity33]

14. I work in a grocery store...

we have to pay the court fees every time we prosecute someone for shoplifting. It's easier to take their information and process a no trespassing order... and it doesn't cost us anything. We have a wall of shame... it's not pretty.

[multigraincracker]

22. Back in 1969 I lived in a ruff part of town. Got along with everyone.

One night in January, a below zero night, the clerk spotted a guy putting a fifth in his back pocket. The clerk followed him out, took his big metal price stamper and wacked him in the butt. Broke the bottle and the guy froze his butt off. No cops, no lawyers, just justice.

I live in a relatively small town 45,000 or so now and not much happens.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

11. I gather no one has ever bothered to call 911 on the kids.

Or there are no police at all in Sacramento.

Surely people have taken videos of those kids. They should be passed on to the local law enforcement and tv stations. They need to be identified and have whatever appropriate action or punishment would be. Especially if they come in the store, there should be time to get officers there.

[lagomorph777]

66. Maybe it's time to install a tripwire.

Or at least a maze of bollards.

[Trueblue Texan]

12. If I had seen what you did...

I probably would have given them the benefit of the doubt too. But knowing this behavior is a thing now, I might try to knock them over if they ever threaten me as they did you. Risky behavior has shitty consequences eventually.

[TNNurse]

13. I find it hard to believe that they cannot be charged

with reckless endangerment...especially in a store.

[PCIntern]

16. I empathize utterly...

We have this in Philadelphia both in Center City and on a road called Belmont Avenue which heads from Fairmount Park to the city line, a straight shot. There anywhere between 30 and 100 kids at once and a catastrophe is bound to happen. One driver was already assaulted with a gun and threatened to be shot but the other riders prevailed upon him not to shoot the guy. It made the news, you can Google it on philly.com. Frightening.

[Silver Gaia]

17. Jeez! Thanks for the heads up on that!

You're talking about DOCO, right? I was thinking of going down there to the theater sometime soon since it's close to me.

I can see how it might be difficult to stop them because it's an open air mall with some street entrances that have no doors. (At least that's how it used to be. I haven't been down there much since the remodel.) And many of the stores have open doorways or auto-open doors. There are basically no barriers to them where they could easily be apprehended or turned away. And there are probably no laws against this since it's obviously a new thing. Maybe the city council could do something about this and the kids could be ID'd with store cams. Then fine the parents. There has to be a way to stop them.

[iemanja]

25. The police must have refused to do anything

Maybe that's why the clerk said "we can't stop them."

[shrike3]

47. That's what I was thinking.

They can't stop them? When it's private property?

[Silver Gaia]

55. Please see my reply to iemanja.

HOW would you propose safely STOPPING kids on high speed electric bikes in a pedestrian mall or retail store? It's easy enough to think they *should* be stopped, and yeah, I can agree with that, but the big question is HOW to do that safely. This isn't a typical mall with easily guarded entrance doors where you could just not let them in. They can get in easily. That was one of my main points. Once they're in, getting them out is a problem. They -- meaning mall management, city council, whatever -- are going to have to find some way to deal with this before someone is badly injured or killed. I hope soon. I like that mall.

[BComplex]

61. They need to put up turnstiles, like in a subway, to all the entrances. Where people with strollers

can still get in and out. Something should be tried before someone gets killed.

[Silver Gaia]

54. I can't imagine the police REFUSING to help.

As a local resident, I was pointing out some of the qualities unique to this particular mall that might make it easy for them to get into the mall and difficult to stop them in a physical sense. I mean, really, HOW would you actually STOP high speed electric bikes in a pedestrian mall/retail store atmosphere without causing greater injuries? HOW could police or mall security physically apprehend them? And if there are no laws/rules/ordinances prohibiting electric bikes there, that complicates things further. I'm sure there is something that would apply, but KEY is identifying these kids and then a way to fine their parents. I think the store clerk was just stating an obvious truth. They CAN'T stop them physically because it's too dangerous.

[iemanja]

58. Here they refuse to investigate car thefts

so I can imagine their refusing to help in this situation.

[Silver Gaia]

59. I'm sorry. Where do you live?

[iemanja]

71. Minneapolis

They won't investigate car thefts or robberies, but they love nothing more than harassing people of color.

[Silver Gaia]

72. I am sorry.

Sacramento police have their problems, too. But I've never heard of them just not investigating crimes, or simply refusing to help. If they do things like this, I have not heard about it. I am sorry you have to live with that.

[c-rational]

18. Here in NYC we are also experiencing similar incidents of marauding younger people ride

en masse. Not sure why this is becoming a thing or simply an indication of societal breakdown. As you say, i also di some foolish things, but they were not mob strength related.

[Oneironaut]

69. They usually organize on social media. It's like a malevolent flash mob.

[Meowmee]

19. I am not sure where exactly they were doing this from your description in the mall or outside

But they certainly can be stopped. The mall / Macy’s needs to step up and report this, it has to be on security cams etc.

Eventually they will injure someone seriously, this is not angst or a joke, it is a form of terrorism imo being perpetrated by bullies. They need to be stopped. Where are the parents? I am sure as someone said the parents will be the first to sue someone if any of their children are injured doing this.


I have heard about this from someone, happening near us in a town, either in the main street and or in parking lots so apparently it is a thing now. I can’t remember why they even told me about it. I haven’t seen it anywhere where I shop.

[nilram]

20. Elbows. Mine might not have gotten out of the way.

Oops

[homegirl]

28. How about

jamming a cane or umbrella in the spokes of the front wheel?

[wnylib]

42. That occurred to me, too.

But there are a couple of reasons not to do that.

Innocent bystanders might get hurt from a bike flying out of control.

The kid on the bike and the ones behind him and around him would get I injured. You would be held liable for their injuries and for damages to the bikes. Although police will not try to stop these kids, they will arrest you for any physical harm or damages.

Once they know who you are, the other kids in the gang (and likely their families, too) will come after you with threats and possibly physical attacks.

OTOH, if you were carrying nails, or a glass item that accidentally broke when you dropped it in fear as they approached, and their bikes ran over the nails or broken glass, it would be a sad accident, wouldn't it?

[plimsoll]

29. Actually it's a shoulder, but it's hard to accomplish when they're coming at you.

The best method then is a bag with a handle on it. You leave the handle looped out to catch the bar as they pass. We have dog walkers who do it on the cycle paths here, and I can sort of get it. They're actually linear parks and on nice days they're full of kids learning to ride, parents with strollers, and people with dogs, about 1/3 of whom don't bother to keep their pets under control.

[Beetwasher.]

38. Then the Whole Gang of Kids Turns on You

Possibly with weapons. Maybe not the smartest thing.

[bif]

21. How weird!

[Evolve Dammit]

23. WTF? I would have been screaming at them and getting law involved. Not OK. I was an idiot too

but we never would think of hurting or terrorizing anyone, which was a possible outcome on both counts for your "situation."

[birdographer]

24. Well that's just scary.

I can see it being hard to stop them in parking lots. But in a corridor of any sort, a simple gate system, gates placed at intervals, would make this difficult for them, but easy for pedestrians to pass through. A parking lot I used to drive through had a system of curbs and grassy islands that you had to navigate around, just to stop people from flying from one side to the other. It sounds like they need an expanse of some distance to do this nonsense. Can't stop it in a lot of places, but perhaps obstacles could be set up in some. This is the first I've heard of it. Maybe that's an advantage to a small southern town. We may be Trumpistan here, but kids don't rule the place.

[XanaDUer2]

26. But they can arrest homeless for petty theft

Cops need to be on this if it's a regular occurrence.

[bluestarone]

27. Welcome to TFG'S America

This is how these type families raise their kids.

[randr]

30. All it takes is a broom stick thrown at a wheel

Try to take out a lead bike. Fighting back is fair recourse. I would carry a cane if I were anywhere near these situations. Or an umbrella.

[Jetheels]

31. This happens to me every day.

No wonder I’m afraid to go outside anymore.
I had to even dodge a motorcycle on the sidewalk this Sunday afternoon.
Welcome to America.
Times have changed.
Also, I went to cvs to buy some toothpaste.
There was no one around to help me.
I kept ringing the bell and asking around for help.
Finally I left.
I couldn’t find anyone to open the lock.

[Eko]

32. My advice to everyone here is to talk to them.

Especially before you go knocking them down. Get them to show you what they can do. These kids are very talented and have way more control than you think they do. The reason they told byronius to not panic is because they are not going to hit you, but you will freak out and step into the way so they do. If a skateboarder is coming down the sidewalk towards you do you think they will hit you? Or someone on a ten speed? Granted they shouldnt be riding through stores and mall but they are just being kids. Far better they are doing that than drugs, gangs and other bad things. I grew up in the 80's and 90's as a skateboarder and people used to freak out about us the same way back then. Talk to them.

[wnylib]

44. When they do this in a group

in a public place, they are enjoying the intimidation and fear that they cause. In other words, they are terrorizing people.

There are small children who would be frightened enough to run instead of freezing in place, and elderly people who would be confused enough to try to sidestep them or collapse in fear.

These kids are thrill seeking at others' expense and at great risk of doing serious injury to people. It does not matter how great their control over their bikes is. They do not have control over the fearful reactions they create in people. And even the best, most skilled kid on a bike can slip, wobble, or lose control.

[Eko]

46. What?

How do you know that? Have you talked to them? Yes, there are people that would feel fear, just like there were people would feel fear at seeing their first car or person riding a bike. No one doing anything has control over the fearful reactions of other people, how absurd to even say that. Yeah, people can mess up and make mistakes. That guy riding the ten speed on the sidewalk can mess up and hit you. That woman driving a car by you can mess up and hit you. The difference is these people are pretty much experts at what they are doing. They have put so many hours each day into doing this that the level of expertise is outstanding. Ive had somewhere near 30 of them ride straight towards me and I just kept walking straight, they all missed me. Is it unsettling when they do it? Yes, just like it was when you first watched cars drive past you when you were a kid. You have no idea that they are enjoying the intimidation and fear they cause, you are just projecting that because that is what you are experiencing. Talk to them before you judge them. Be a progressive.

[wnylib]

52. There is nothing absurd about

pointing out that kids on bikes do not have complete control over the bikes no matter how skilled they are, or that they have no control over people's reactions to a swarm of bikes coming at them. Yes, it is obvious that the kids do not have control over the reactions of people to bikes coming at them. That's the whole point. Since they cannot control the way people will react to a swarm of bikes on a public walkway, they should not be doing bike tricks there.

What's absurd is your apples and oranges comparison of the first time somebody sees a bike or car to the situation of several kids on bikes coming down a pedestrian walkway, leaving no room for anyone to move out of the way.

In my town, there are occasionally 2 or 3 kids on bikes on a sidewalk, sometimes doing wheelies or racing each other. I do a lot of walking and have not had a problem with it. I can step off the walk onto grass, or edge over to the curb. Usually I don't need to because they slip into single file and ride around me.

Same with skateboarders on sidewalks. My city has a lot of hills. Kids love going down them on skateboards. They are usually just a couple kids out having fun and competing with each other in demonstrating their skills. I sometimes wish I were young enough to do the same things.

But, there is a serious problem with large groups of kids in town using parking garages for their skateboards. They race each other down the ramps while their friends stand by watching. There have been near misses when they get so absorbed in what they are doing that they don't notice a car coming around the bend on its way out of the parking ramp. There have been near misses the other way, too. People going to or from their cars while a group of skateboarders cruise by, weaving in and out around the people on their feet. They call out things to the pedestrians like, "Over here, behind you," and laugh as people look around. It's hard for one or two people on foot to keep track of where 8 or 10 skateboarders zooming around them are.

The ramps have signs posted that skateboards are not allowed. The kids get aggressive with ramp employees who point out the signs or ask them to go somewhere else with their boards. The employees no longer call police because the police refuse to come or do anything about it.

[niyad]

60. Actually, a skateboarder nearly broke my ankle recently. We were crossing a street

in opposite directions. He stepped off his board, and it flew at me, hitting me just above my ankle. Leg started swelling. In fairness, the young man was horrified and very apologetic. We were right in front of a Starbucks, and he got ice for my leg, and a drink for me. The accident did teach him to be much more careful.

[Oneironaut]

70. I would recommend against this unless you want to get beaten and robbed.

Many times these aren’t enthusiasts. They are bored teens looking for trouble and safety in numbers.

[Demovictory9]

33. Latimes ran an article a few weeks ago..these kis have no legal place to ride these bikes

In la there is cultural history..dad also built his own lil bike..kids are now building thete bikes but nowhere to ride legally so they find places

[iemanja]

40. They can pick a bike path somewhere

They mean to cause trouble.

[wnylib]

45. +1000.

[llmart]

34. This is not just "stupid stuff I did at that age".

This is a prime example of white boy privilege as people tsk tsk and let them get away with behavior that could seriously harm someone. It's why we have an epidemic of toxic masculinity too. This is where they get the notion early on in life that they don't have to be considerate of anyone else - just do whatever the hell they feel like doing with no consequences.

Hmm...sound familiar? We had a criminal "president" for four years who probably exhibited the same behavior as a teenager. In fact, it's why his mother sent him to military school. I guarantee it.

Personally, I would have called the police.

[markpkessinger]

36. The OP doesn't mention the kids' race n/t

[Skittles]

51. we can pretty much guess

can't we?

[plimsoll]

35. A question and then a rant.

Are these personal eBikes or are these rentals?

Since the rentals require you to use a cell phone to check them out it seems like the companies could cage some areas as non-access areas. They may not be able to stop the bike, but if you enter one your "right" to rent one is permanently revoked.

If they're personal eBikes, we might have to consider licensing eBikes. I've been opposed because I think they could be much better transportation in many locations. But I'm not a second amendment dead ender, if people can't use the bikes responsibly then all everyone who wants to use one needs to be licensed. Unlike a human powered system these are capable of decent speeds. The only difference between an eBike and a motorcycle becomes the energy source.

Ha ha. Like the police would actually enforce those laws.

[orleans]

37. no mall cops at that mall? how bizarre.

made me think of this 7-11 girl on bike commercial

only way worse!

[Totally Tunsie]

39. Sounds like a case for Paul Blart: Mall Cop

Seriously though, the Mall ownership needs to step up and in and provide security at their entrances to keep these bikes and riders out. They'd be among the first sued in the event of a serious accident so it's well worth their investment. It's not up to the individual stores or their workers to manage this situation. This is the responsibility of Mall Corporate, whoever they are.

Glad to hear you and no-one else were not hurt in this melee.

[CentralMass]

41. Reckless miscreants.

[Jack the Greater]

43. I am sure that would get you an A+ in any creative writing class anywhere!

I felt like i was right there with you!

[shrike3]

50. Ironically, we have brand new electric bikes.

Haven't even had a chance to ride them yet. (Bad weather.) It's rare to see any kid around here on a bicycle. Let alone electric ones. Maybe we're just behind the times.

[vercetti2021]

53. An elbow wouldn't hurt

Teach the brats a hard lesson in being an asshole has repercussions

[bluecollar2]

56. Here in Miami

They use dirt bikes and ATV's. Usually it's on US 1 in my area. They roar out of side streets and start their mayhem blocking intersections etc.

Happens to me pretty often. Usually between 3 and 5 in the afternoon after school.

Best thing to do is stop and let them do their thing. Any other action is likely going to end up with vehicle damage if not full assault.

Police are helpless.

[SmallFry]

62. Sounds like fun. Glad you are ok. NT

[lagomorph777]

65. Don't mislabel evil as "angst"

These assholes need some jail time. Their bikes should be confiscated and donated to charity.

[Wingus Dingus]

67. I've read about kids on dirt bikes and motorcycles doing stuff like

this through city streets in some places--just dangerously mobbing an area and then disappearing. I haven't seen this, but I have had an increasing crew of diesel-truck coal-rolling drag-racing burnout-spinning sign-stealing little inbreds rumbling around my house in the middle of the night. Hate those little shits.