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Solly Mack

(93,207 posts)
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 08:18 PM Sep 2023

Panel finds 9/11 defendant unfit for trial after CIA torture made him psychotic

A military judge at Guantánamo Bay has ruled a 9/11 defendant incompetent to stand trial after a military medical panel found that the man’s sustained abuse in CIA custody years earlier had rendered him lastingly psychotic.

A military medical panel last month diagnosed al-Shibh as having post-traumatic stress disorder with secondary psychosis, and linked it to his torture and solitary confinement during four years in CIA custody after his 2002 arrest.

Defense attorneys and a UN-appointed investigator have argued that the five 9/11 co-defendants should be given physical and psychological care for the lasting effects of the torture they underwent while in CIA custody under the Bush administration.

The five 9/11 defendants were variously subjected to repeated waterboarding, beatings, violent repeated searches of their rectal cavities, sleep deprivation and other abuse while at so-called CIA black sites.
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Panel finds 9/11 defendant unfit for trial after CIA torture made him psychotic (Original Post) Solly Mack Sep 2023 OP
;-( elleng Sep 2023 #1
BushCheney have much to answer for, as does the US for keeping them in office Hekate Sep 2023 #2
Sickening, barbaric and utterly shameful. chowder66 Sep 2023 #3
From the end of the article: femmedem Sep 2023 #4
Horrifying. WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2023 #7
I was hoping people would read the entire article. Thank you. Solly Mack Sep 2023 #8
Someone be sure to send a note to John Yoo encouraging him to resign from his job and surrender his Comfortably_Numb Sep 2023 #5
This country is so fucking cruel. K&R WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2023 #6
Oh, now. After everyone dies, Bush, Cheney, rest of the administration, a lot of CIA agents, Solly Mack Sep 2023 #9
Almost like we've seen it all before... WhiskeyGrinder Sep 2023 #21
Yeah. :( Solly Mack Sep 2023 #24
I am NOT trying to be funny about this.. albacore Sep 2023 #10
I'm no professional but I don't think that's how one treats psychosis or PTSD. Solly Mack Sep 2023 #11
I'm not talking about curing a psychosis...I'm talking about starting early albacore Sep 2023 #12
Yeah. It's too late now. And they claim they understand that...now. Solly Mack Sep 2023 #13
Do the name DeSantis mean anything to ya?? albacore Sep 2023 #14
I know. But thank you for adding the link. Lot of guilty still around. Solly Mack Sep 2023 #15
A sad DURec leftstreet Sep 2023 #16
The US was insane first. Nt BootinUp Sep 2023 #17
Same thing happened to Jose Padilla. Kid Berwyn Sep 2023 #18
Yep. Thank you posting that! Solly Mack Sep 2023 #19
+1 leftstreet Sep 2023 #20
Self Righteous Fxxks NowISeetheLight Sep 2023 #22
Good job!!! nt Carlitos Brigante Sep 2023 #23

femmedem

(8,455 posts)
4. From the end of the article:
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 08:24 PM
Sep 2023

"Joe Biden this month declined to approve post-trauma care when defense lawyers presented it as a condition in plea negotiations."

Damn.

Comfortably_Numb

(4,121 posts)
5. Someone be sure to send a note to John Yoo encouraging him to resign from his job and surrender his
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 08:25 PM
Sep 2023

law license since he torpedoed a Justice department case. The torture lawyer should be ashamed, but they have no capacity for shame. Hate those fucks.

Solly Mack

(93,207 posts)
9. Oh, now. After everyone dies, Bush, Cheney, rest of the administration, a lot of CIA agents,
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 08:45 PM
Sep 2023

the Torture Memo writers, the torture shrinks, assorted NGOs, as well as members of the military and the 911 defendants (everyone at GTMO most likely), America will come off with some comment meant to express how this doesn't reflect the true nature of America and how bad we all feel about this very much in the past event that has no bearing on who we are as a nation.

So, buck up! We have something to look forward to eventually. If we aren't dead by then.

And just think of what a kumbaya moment that will be!

albacore

(2,635 posts)
10. I am NOT trying to be funny about this..
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 08:47 PM
Sep 2023

Seriously... has anybody given any thought to trying bombing prisoners like him relentlessly with lifestyle bribes nobody can turn down?
I am NOT being naive. If we wage a constant attack of good food, blonde companions, good quarters, American TV - soft porn and carefully chosen programs, we would at least find out just how fanatic those guys are.
I believe 5 years of that - and a promise of the same for the rest of his life - would get us more cooperation than torture.

Short version of above....we know torture doesn't work. Maybe a rich American lifestyle would.

Has anybody tried this?

Solly Mack

(93,207 posts)
11. I'm no professional but I don't think that's how one treats psychosis or PTSD.
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 08:50 PM
Sep 2023

Torture trauma is real. Don't have to take my word for it. Look it up.

Sort of puts the victims beyond being able to cooperate.

albacore

(2,635 posts)
12. I'm not talking about curing a psychosis...I'm talking about starting early
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 08:53 PM
Sep 2023

.. soon after capture.
Once the guy is broken by torture, good living is not going to work.

Solly Mack

(93,207 posts)
13. Yeah. It's too late now. And they claim they understand that...now.
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 08:55 PM
Sep 2023

Course, many said it then - that torture doesn't work. But our government assured us that they weren't torturing anyone.

Kid Berwyn

(18,339 posts)
18. Same thing happened to Jose Padilla.
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 09:13 PM
Sep 2023


The CIA's favorite form of torture

If the Bush administration forces the CIA to drop "tough" interrogation techniques like waterboarding, the agency will probably fall back on a brutal method that leaves no physical marks.


By MARK BENJAMIN
Salon, June 7, 2007

According to news reports, the White House is preparing to issue an executive order that will set new ground rules for the CIA's secret program for interrogating captured al-Qaida types. Constrained by the 2006 Military Commissions Act, which contains a strict ban on abuse, it is anticipated that the order will jettison waterboarding and other brutal interrogation techniques.

But President Bush has insisted publicly that "tough" techniques work, and has signaled that the CIA's secret program can somehow continue under the rubric of the Military Commissions Act. The executive order will reportedly hand the CIA greater latitude than the military to conduct coercive interrogations. If waterboarding goes the way of the Iron Maiden, what "tough" techniques will the CIA use on its high-value detainees?

The answer is most likely a measure long favored by the CIA -- sensory deprivation. The benign-sounding form of psychological coercion has been considered effective for most of the life of the agency, and its slippery definition might allow it to squeeze through loopholes in a law that seeks to ban prisoner abuse. Interviews with former CIA officials and experts on interrogation suggest that it is an obvious choice for interrogators newly constrained by law. The technique has already been employed during the "war on terror," and, Salon has learned, was apparently used on 14 high-value detainees now held at Guantánamo Bay.

A former top CIA official predicted to Salon that sensory deprivation would remain available to the agency as an interrogation tool in the future. "I'd be surprised if [sensory deprivation] came out of the toolbox," said A.B. Krongard, who was the No. 3 official at the CIA until late 2004. Alfred McCoy, a history professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison who has written extensively about the history of CIA interrogation, agrees with Krongard that the CIA will continue to employ sensory deprivation. "Of course they will," predicted McCoy. "It is embedded in the doctrine." For the CIA to stop using sensory deprivation, McCoy says, "The leopard would have to change his spots." And he warned that a practice that may sound innocuous to some was sharpened by the agency over the years into a horrifying torture technique.

Sensory deprivation, as CIA research and other agency interrogation materials demonstrate, is a remarkably simple concept. It can be inflicted by immobilizing individuals in small, soundproof rooms and fitting them with blacked-out goggles and earmuffs. "The first thing that happens is extraordinary hallucinations akin to mescaline," explained McCoy. "I mean extreme hallucinations" of sight and sound. It is followed, in some cases within just two days, by what McCoy called a "breakdown akin to psychosis."

Continues…

https://www.salon.com/2007/06/07/sensory_deprivation/

Ancient history we’ve seen.

NowISeetheLight

(3,991 posts)
22. Self Righteous Fxxks
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 09:45 PM
Sep 2023

You know I have mixed feelings about all this. Not about torture, but about people claiming America is so superior to everyone else. How we proclaim to be about God and Ethics. We are claimed to be so great.

Overthrown governments, Shah of Iran, Sadam Hussain, Manuel Noriega, on and on. Now this torture stuff. I am of the belief torture doesn't work. I believe it elicts false information. People will say anything.

But if America is supposed to be so self-righteous... why are we doing it? If we are going to go down that road, fine, but don't try to BS your way out of it. If you do it, own it. Don't be a fxxking coward and claim it's "not torture".

John McCain was right. It's torture. Plain and simple. A duck quacks like a duck. If you wrap it in a flag and claim.its to save American lives... it's still a quaking duck.

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