History of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict

[Picaro]

https://www.rawstory.com/from-1947-to-2023-retracing-the-complex-tragic-israeli-palestinian-conflict/

[Lithos]

1. You do realize

It goes back farther in time?

Yet, even all of that perspective is really moot when most of what is happening is the result of two very similar conservative ideologies which are riding at the crest of two nationalistic movements? Likud and Hamas bear much resemblance to each other in their origins, actions and their desired outcomes.

[ZonkerHarris]

5. Yeah, like I'm supposed to trust Bibi here? Nope. Just like I wouldn't trust Trump if something

like this happened here when he was in office.
They are the same.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Starting at 1947? lol

[ZonkerHarris]

6. Don't you know? Nothing happend before WWII.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. 600 A.D. would be a good starting point.

[Marius25]

7. Yup. I always ask people who say it's all Arab land to explain to me why

there is a Mosque on top of the Jewish temple mount built 1000 years before Islam even existed.

[haele]

10. Oddly enough earlier period was essentially Jews against Jews.

Sorry for being pendantic, but "fighting over who owns the land wasn't what was happening thousands of years ago. It was more familial politics; flavors of which cousin was favored by Gawd". But Archeology (science) is more accurate than myth, and I really hate the " these two groups have fought each other for centuries, so there's nothing to do to stop it" story, because of that was the case, all of the world would be split into tiny little tribal groups and we would have killed each other off long ago. First of all, that holy land story is seriously flawed.

From a few fragments of historical references, it appears that maybe a retired mercenary leader who had fought with the Egyptians against the Assyrians, originally from the Levant, went through the Sinai collecting culturally like minded (monotheistic) groups of tribes in Canaan. As they went northward over a couple generations, they took over smaller, disparate tribes living in the region and created the Kingdom of Israel. Later, the kingdom split into a more urban/trade based northern region, known as Samara, and a more rural, agricultural based southern region. But they still considered themselves Israel. The issue appears to have come to a head when one king died without a male heir, and two cousins, both in charge of each region went to war to determine which region would rule. We remember David, he won, and built the First Temple, establishing "Jewishness".
Tale old as time, here.

So, Samara lost to Judea "because they were too polluted from outside influences" - their control the main trade route in the Levant between Persia and Egypt, and that they had allowed non-Israeli to live and worship in their territory because, well, business. But still, the Samaritans stayed to continue their trade and urban centers, as long as they assimilated of this new kingdom and agreed by be more Judean.

Afterwards Samaritans who didn't o to temple and continued practicing their brand of the Abrahamaic religion became historically despised well into the early CE period [because they were Jews who weren't "Jewish" enough. That's what made the Parable of the Good Samaritan so strikingly important to early Jesus cult followers.

BTW, the Philistines, also assimilated (by war) into the early Kingdom of Israel, were not the ancestors of the Palestinians.

Inter-tribal fighting over land in that area lead to assimilation into the Judean based culture, not exile of those other tribe members. For the most part, these different tribes were recognized by the Kingdom as wayward "cousins" not invaders. Regions within Israel were recognized as a homeland to those different tribes, they just needed to follow the laws, practice the religion, and pay tribute to whomever was king.

Actual war in the region was primarily based on defending tribal land against the big country invaders - Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Ptolemic dynasty Egypt, and finally Rome. Rome broke the kingdom of Israel, but there were still Israelites living in the area farming, running their businesses, and living their lives. While groups had scattered around the Mediterranean or Empire, they weren't kicked out of the region or told they didn't own the land.

The Israel - Arab fighting over who "owned the land" the only became an issue after the rise of Islam (late 400 CE) when the first Caliphate established over the Levant and locals were "encouraged" to convert to Islam. However, since Jews and Christians were considered people of The Book, if they didn't want to convert, they didn't have to. And that continued on through the Colonial period.

So Jews have been living, owning land and worshipping at their synagogues in the area for centuries; their last major war was with the Romans. They just had to share the overall region governance with others.

The British messed up the whole area drawing lines and partitioning groups - like those islamic converts from Judaism in 500 CE who later were called themselves Palestinians - into "Nation States" after WWII and WWII. They also promised the very same land to both the Jewish Zionist and native Palestinian Militias for their help in fighting the Nazis, which lead tho the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 and the willy -nilly diplomacy that just dumped a huge influx of European Jewish diaspora and a brand new state of Israel into the middle of now partitioned Arab world trying to fit into new Western based boundaries that had no relevance to actual tribal and historical cultural groupings.

That's what kicked off the current religious based factional warring in Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, and parts of Syria.

As a parting note:
There had been centuries established families of Jews and Christians living in the regions of Palestine, in Gaza and in the West Bank, up through the very early 2000's, just as there have been centuries established families of Christians and Muslims living in the various regions of Israel. Much as I f'kg dispise them, I have to admit that the PLO as an organization did not kick those families (though local individuals may have harassed them) out to house Muslim refugees from the various internal conflicts within Israel, Lebanon and Syria over the borders drawn by the Brits as they left.

Goddamn hardline religious nutjobs taking over on all sides are the cause of all this horror. There is nothing more evil than that evil justified in the name of a God.

Haele

[JohnSJ]

4. There is a lot left out of that chronicle, including the convenient starting point.

[randr]

8. All the souls on both sides who are suffering had nothing to do with the original conflict

The questions are: Why not have the conflicts been addressed by leaders for decades? Who is benefiting or profiting from the continuation of conflict?
I have read many articles over the past decade about how many Israelis and Palestinians are involved in a peaceful process. Where are they now and how does the world get the hear their voices?

[lapucelle]

9. In 1947...

A UN special committee proposes a partition plan giving 56.47 percent of Palestine for a Jewish state and 44.53 percent for an Arab state.

Palestinian representatives reject the plan, but their Jewish counterparts accept it.

==============================

Some context for the 1947 UN discussions...

Amin al-Husseini

The wartime reputation of al-Husseini was employed as an argument for the establishment of a Jewish State during the deliberations at UN in 1947. The Nation Associates under Freda Kirchwey prepared a nine-page pamphlet with annexes for the United Nations entitled The Arab Higher Committee, Its Origins, Personnel and Purposes.

This booklet included copies of communications between Haj Amin al-Husseini and high ranking Nazis (e.g. Heinrich Himmler, Franz von Papen, Joseph Goebbels), al-Husseini's diary account of meeting Hitler, several letters to German officials in several countries where he requested that Jews never be permitted to emigrate from Europe to a Jewish Home in Palestine, and many photographs of al-Husseini, Rashid Ali, and other Arab politicians in the company of Nazis and their Italian and Japanese allies.

It claimed to demonstrate that German Nazis and Palestinian politicians (some of whom were requesting recognition at the UN in 1947 as representatives of the Palestinian Arab population) had made common cause during World War II in their opposition to the establishment of a Jewish State in Palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini

[Torchlight]

11. Nobody thinks of the poor old Ottoman Empire anymore.

Otto, let's go have a drink and express how lonely we are (though you have better reason for loneliness than I due to your relevance).

We'll drink to your predecessors as well, the Byzantine and Austro-Hungarian Empires who had a direct and complicit had in where we all are now, nor even the Sikes-Picot Accords; all now forgotten in the rush for the simplicity of the immediate.

We won't even talk of our great elders and grandparents, who wrote the original sheet music to this symphony of violence 'cause there's just not enough at the bar to tide us over.

[Wounded Bear]

12. One of the hardest things to do in history is to pick a "starting point"....

History is a continuum.

Some people like to point at post WWI, when England and France divvied up the Middle East after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in order to guarantee access to ME oil, which was rapidly replacing the coal based economy of the 19th Century. Others go farther back.

There's always an event at some point that seems to lead to where we are now. Hell, go back to the Crusades when it was Christian vs Muslims and the Jews were sidelined by both sides. Nobody has any answers, just more "Kill the Infidel" from both sides who are often acting as proxies for power brokers.

[Mosby]

13. What a joke of an article.

Doesn't even mention Camp David/Taba and makes the bizarre claim that Sharon walking around the Temple Mount provoked the Palestinians to kill over a thousand Israelis.

Absolute garbage.

[WarGamer]

14. Just to broaden this out a bit...

Jerusalem has been attacked 50+ times in the last... 5000 years

Destroyed down to rubble twice...

By pretty much every group in history... including Romans, Crusaders and yes, Muslims.