I believe that Democrats/Liberals/Progressives need to face the absolute fact

[PCIntern]

that the reason, the SOLE set of reasons that the vast number of others pull that lever for Trump, even though they may claim that he’s terribly “flawed”, is that he’s an avowed racist/homophobe/misogynist/anti-semite/supercilious HATER.

It has nothing to do with anything else. It is why George Wallace won Democratic primaries, it is why white NFL quarterbacks are idolized way beyond their relative capabilities, it is why people of color are shot on sight by police who will then risk years in jail on the perjury charges alone and it’s ok with millions, it is why a lot of things, things I will not mention here because many will get very very upset with this post, happen in this country.


But the ONE thing that these people will someday have to come to terms with is that Trump despises the military and those individuals and families who “paid the ultimate sacrifice” and this is tolerated. My father who served four years in the Pacific Theater in WWII would likely call for Trumps indictment, conviction, and punishment as a traitor to the United States. Despicable.

[Otto_Harper]

1. And these low-lifes are continuing to take over due to normalcy bias

While this cesspool of hatred, lawlessness and avarice run roughshod over our country and exploit the very systems meant to maintain order, the rest of us act with calm ignorance due to normalcy bias. This will ultimately result in the destruction of our Democracy.

Point in fact. The Supreme Court is re-writing the Constitution in front of our eyes, and who is doing or saying anything beyond some informed (and perhaps alarmed) commentaries in non-mainstream media.

[JustAnotherGen]

2. Thank you

I feel like its been obvious since he rode down that escalator with 'whats her name'?

[TwilightZone]

3. Not entirely. Lots of people are simply partisan voters. They don't care who their nominee is.

They believe that any R, no matter how abhorrent, is better than any D, and will vote accordingly.

There's some overlap, of course, but we consistently underestimate just how many there are in a very big way. They may very well be the majority of GOP voters. We underestimate them because we try to lump them all together with stereotypes and blanket statements.

If we write them all off as hyperbolic stereotypes, we miss opportunities. President Biden and his staff understand that, which is why his statement about Haley attempted to reach out to some of them. Wouldn't take a lot to swing some of the swing states.

In the end, we simply have to outvote them. That's always the key.

[PCIntern]

5. See below...

[Earth-shine]

14. This is my opinion, as well. Long-standing Republicans are going to vote Republican no matter what.

I do the same thing. I don't like all Democrats, but I sure vote for them.

[Polybius]

48. Same here, but one exception: I voted for Bloomberg in 2005

His first term was beyond elite for a NYC Mayor.

[Earth-shine]

50. Okay, if we must confess. A few years ago I voted for a Republican Sheriff over the Democrat.

I was given mistaken information (nothing new in Florida) that the Dem was associated with Jeffrey Epstein. Months later, we find out he wasn't.

[barbaraann]

4. You need to add Democrat-hater to that list.

Somehow the right-wing media has convinced millions of people, including one of my brothers, that Democrats are the most evil people who ever existed in the universe. He sees me as an exception, but in reality I'm just a typical Democrat. It's impossible to reason with him.

[PCIntern]

7. Hate is what moves these people

Everything else is secondary in my opinion. They hate Democrats because Democrats gave the civil rights act to the country.

[barbaraann]

11. Yes, they are hate-filled.

I've read that hatred produces endorphins and then people can get addicted to the endorphin rush they get from hating.

[robbob]

25. This was the allure, and indeed the very business model

upon which Rush Limbaugh and RW hate radio built their empires. People would tune in on their way to and from work and get all riled up over the outrage of the day. Heck; how many of us come to DU every day to see the latest stupid thing tRump has spewed? I know I’m guilty in part…

…and yes, I realize there’s a big difference deference between made up nonsense like the war on Christmas and drag queens coming for your children and a fascist menace who wants to lock up his political foes but guess what? Your endorphins don’t care! Just your logical brain, and I’m afraid many RW-ers are sorely lacking in that department…😂

[mountain grammy]

40. Exactly!

My husband's trumper family believe Democrats are evil, but give us a pass. We're family after all.

[Funtatlaguy]

6. Yes, sadly, at least 40% of Americans are "deplorable".

[mobeau69]

8. To quote Malcolm X

“This country is racist from top to bottom.”

I can hear my father, who served in Pattons army, screaming from his grave 50 miles away.

[Nasruddin]

34. He was wrong

We are equal-opportunity hatists
Admittedly, skin-color racism does make it convenient

[Nictuku]

9. I think it has a lot to do with hatred of "Liberals and Elite" because they think we think they are stupid

.... in addition to the "racist/homophobe/misogynist/anti-semite/supercilious HATER"

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

10. That's what I've always said

People who like Trump do so because he hates the same people they do. Nothing more.

[Oopsie Daisy]

12. He's made it okay to hate openly again.

[Model35mech]

13. The Tea-hadists want to destroy taxation and the regulatory agencies

A bankrupt, toothless federal government is a perfectly good outcome for them.

Those two things would destroy the nation as we know it.

And THAT is exactly what the Christian Dominionists want, because a non-functional, bankrupt, toothless government is the precursor that they need to make their great play to toss the Constitution and put in place a conservative dictatorship under the guise of God's Will.

It's all about power. Destroying federal power, and establishing the power of a christian dominionist tyranny.

So other reasons can be considered rationally based on what we've already seen about the radical tea-party faction and the fascist christian dominionists who now control the Speakership, and the conservative bloc on scotus.

Of course, the play by the elite requires lebensraum for the elite. And that will be provided by the likes of the useful idiots who will proceed on the assumption that destruction of social cohesion through promoting social asymmetries through discrimination by race, religion, gender, and wealth will promote a return in their lives of a mythical good-life.

But nothing much will change. Those empowered to make the rules, will Rule

[PCIntern]

15. All those things you mentioned are true and

Hate-filled. It’s a perfect world for them. Until they’re there.

That was another subplot in The Man in the High Tower - problems at the top of the food chain after everything else has been destroyed.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

37. Wish we could

Dump all those christofascist republican trash on an island and isolate it from everything else and let them have thier fucking tyranny but wielded over each other and leave the kind hearted of this country out of thier sick selfish toxic hateful bullshit.

[PCIntern]

39. Right again!!

[CousinIT]

16. I can verify that as fact. My family is full of them. Misogynists and white supremacists.

They have a white privilege problem. And their only concern is that their candidate hates and wants to oppress or eliminate the same people they do:

women
immigrants (legal or not)
LGBTQ
people of color

[beaglelover]

17. I believe it's all about 'owning the libs'.

[soldierant]

42. And that

differs from hate how, exactly?

[onecaliberal]

18. TRUTH!!!!

[Mr.Bee]

19. I've spent my whole life being pulled back and forth.

We had JFK & LBJ and a lot of progress,
Then Nixon takes us back.
We get a little bit of progress under Carter,
Then 12 years of Reagan/Bush pulls us back.
Then another little bit of progress under Clinton,
and that whole mess with W, 911 and Iraq/Afghanistan,
A tiny bit of sanity with Obama,
And Darn Old Trumpf demanding he break up all social norms.
Which brings us to today.
I'm tired of being pulled back and forth.

[TakeItEasy]

20. You're so right.

For these people. it's the hatred, bigotry and racism that fuels them.

[Mr.Bee]

36. It's an Embarrassing and Humiliating time to be an American

[dalton99a]

21. Yep. It is the Party of Hate.

There is nothing constructive, noble, or decent about Republicans anymore.

[Bettie]

22. My husband says that

the thing they have in common is that they hate something more than they love anything.

That's why Trump resonates with them, he gave them explicit permission to be the worst versions of themselves, to take off that mask and show their true faces.

When it becomes fashionable to hide under the mask of civility again, we need to remember who they are underneath.

[Voltaire2]

23. He's identifying groups to blame for

a system that really isn’t working for many people. This is the classic rightwing populist authoritarian route to power.

[SoFlaBro]

26. MAGA hates blacks, Jews, women, gays, immigrants, and non Christians. All of them.

[honest.abe]

27. Hate is probably the greatest motivator... and they hate alot of things associated with Democrats.

That's why Trump could win in November.

[bdamomma]

43. He could lose

too. There are more of us than them. Hate fuels them. They even hate our country. I hope that Orange Pus Thug has a health issue from now till November.

[ismnotwasm]

28. Yes.

[HandmaidsTaleUntold]

29. I Agree But...

I argue with people all day about this. They are offended to be labeled racists. These are liberals. Unaffiliated and alienated from the two party system. But total hippies. They are sick and tired of business as usual. They don’t care about our logical arguments and comparisons. They are so fed up, and they would rather see it all burn down and not even consider the safety of their own families. I see this most recently accented regarding the genocide of Palestinians. Before that it was an economy that may look good on paper but most people don’t own stocks or have big investments and they are left behind...the majority. These people are over it all. They did not like Hillary and are mad no one listened when they showed they wouldn’t vote for establishment candidates. These same people would despise Nikki Haley or Ted Cruz for being typical. I don’t agree with these views because they aren’t practical though I totally understand them. We better take our arguments to their online spaces and those right wing sites to to appeal to moderates and not just here because it’s happening again. Whether we like it or not these people are now convinced Trump will win. They don’t even like the guy but they like the idea of it all burning down. Sounds stupid and reckless but we would be misled to not realize how real it is and adjust.

[Hekate]

31. Well let us know how taking it to their online spaces works out for you...

“ We better take our arguments to their online spaces and those right wing sites to to appeal to moderates and not just here “

[HandmaidsTaleUntold]

45. I've Tried

Politico and The Hill had repubs in there without being a cesspool. They stopped allowing images though. Yes most have drank the kool aid and all those sites are overrun with bots and sock puppet profiles. But occasionally you can point out the hypocrisy enough that some listen.

[earth2jim]

30. Maybe its Subjugation?

Subjugation?
What is it about republicans love of subjugation? Why do they love it so. Why are they drawn to the S/M dark side?
They seem to love seeing others mistreated. Whatever the will of the American people through polls or otherwise show, they immediately advocate the opposite, don’t they? They seem to lust for displays of humiliation as their Master doles it out, don’t they though? Always contrarian humiliation. What’s up with that?

[I_UndergroundPanther]

38. Because they believe

In a social hierarchy

And they put themselves at the top always.

[Amishman]

32. Based on the numerous Pubs I have in my extended family, I do not agree

I live in a red, rural part of PA. My wife's family is mostly Republican with a sprinkling of indies and libertarians. My wife and I are literally the only Democrats at family gatherings (which are frequent and huge).

Other than two older men and one woman (remember, big family) on that side, I don't think they are racist or misogynist.

Quite a few don't really like Trump very much, but will vote for him again.

Why? Because they simply do not want what we are selling.

○ The EPA and environmental rules are really disliked. I still regularly hear people ranting about CARB gas cans, the design changes mandated for new wood stoves, 2.5 GPM faucets, stormwater management environmental rules, and urea systems on diesels.

○ Gun safety, particularly bolder proposals involving bans and/or mandatory buybacks, is a non-starter for quite a few of them.

○ Any non-binary view of gender is viewed as mental illness.

○ Lots of skepticism towards taxes and spending, and generally viewing government as incompetent. Just about anything that involves expanding the role of government is viewed as wasteful and wasting their money. There is a general (shortsighted) attitude that they just want government (especially at the federal level) to leave them alone.

○ Abortion isn't that important one way or the other with those I know, but I kind of suspect this is not typical.

Add that all up, and even if they don't like Trump - they don't like many things we are offering even more.

[ecstatic]

44. fine, but why trump? The most deplorable troll on the planet. Why him?

They are choosing him. It's not like he's just the last one standing. They actively choose that piece of shit.

And now they're willing to toss out "democracy" to support him. Why? Because they don't like trans people? And they're too stupid to notice that the economy craters under every republican?

[Amishman]

53. You're viewing them from our perspective

Last edited Thu Mar 7, 2024, 09:19 AM - Edit history (1)

They really don't want us. The broad spectrum rejection of our party across the majority of our platform is something that is really hard to understand unless you've been exposed to it a lot.

Why Trump? Partially because he is a crass troll and is extremely good at pissing off the people they hate (us). Because they view him as someone who 'saved' the country by winning in 2016 and in particular for setting SCOTUS up as a long term limiter at anything we can do. Society and government has been drifting left for a long time - expansion of social welfare programs, expansion of environmental rules, expansion of LGBTQ acceptance, expansion of government spending. They don't want this, and see him as a viable option to keep us in check.

It's a clash of two conflicting visions of America: one a christian religion rooted capitalist monoculture. The other a diverse multicultural socialist / capitalist hybrid. Even those who don't particularly like Trump see him as the most viable option for tipping the balance in their favor. I talk to my brother in law a lot; extremely smart and successful man who is a right leaning independent (and an absolute gun nut). He hates Trump but has voted for him twice and will a third time. His personal reasoning is mostly around not wanting a Democratic president for tax and gun reasons. We've talked about this quite a bit, and he doesn't think the pubs could win without Trump's hardcore followers, so he wants orange julius on the ballot even though Trump was his least favorite option in the primaries.

As for throwing away Democracy, they think Trump is saving it. The belief that our election system is compromised is near universal on the right, they mainly differ on to what degree and how. Some less crazy ones (like my BiL), point to ballot harvesting and make a big deal out of the Philly Democratic primary ballot box stuffing incident from about a decade ago. Others still go off about the Dominion voting machine conspiracies. They are willing to vote for Trump even though they don't like him because they believe doing so is saving democracy.

Semi-related, I would love for the Ukraine war to cause the Russian government's collapse because I think the extent and complexity of Russian shaping and directing the political right in this country through social media is terrifying. I'd love to see the proof come out from Russia's side.

[ecstatic]

55. Yikes.

Your description of your BIL's support and motivations makes me wonder if there is a large group of people who stayed home or voted for someone else in the primaries but will vote for trump in the fall.



Thanks for explaining but it's still hard to swallow and fully understand that mindset. Kudos to you for being able to have conversations with them. Because I'm so angry and triggered by trump, I tend to lose it, even with people who are Democrats or Democrat-leaning, if too much foolishness is spouted in one conversation.

[Amishman]

57. food and alcohol helps

My BIL's place is huge and the majority of our family gatherings are there. In the summer he has people over pretty much every weekend for BBQ, a fire, and drinks. A belly full of brisket and sipping excellent whiskey around a fire on a summer night makes listening to RWers a lot more tolerable. Plus I do have a lot in common with them outside of the political arena (sports, food, DIY projects, etc), and most conversations are not about politics. I've also learned to keep my mouth shut on certain subjects or with certain family members, it's just not worth the drama.

But yes, my BIL is an example of possible trump vote pickups in the GE. He's an independent and can't even vote in PA's closed primaries.

[Warpy]

33. These people won't come to terms with what they turned into

because most of them started out that way, all they needed were pundits and leaders to tell them that hating other people was a good and righteous thing to do to vecome energized and semi organized.

We're not immune, don't try to tell me you didn't feel a frisson of satisfaction when you learned Limbaugh died. I did. Outliving rotten people feels good for a second or two.

TFG will be 78 this summer and stress is making him age at light speed. While broadcast media refuse to acknowledge this, people are noticing.

Bigots are always going to be with us, tribalism is strong with them. However, they tend to go quieter between leaders. Self reflection is not going to happen, they have little capacity for insight. Quiet is going to have to do.

[Alice Kramden]

35. There is another faction of Tr*mp supporters

Who are indoctrinated by religious beliefs, and they have been manipulated into the anti-abortion position, soon to become anti- contraception. It's mind control, and it's gradual and thorough.

[TeamProg]

41. TSF and supporters all hate the same people. That was pretty clear since TSF never offered much in policy. nt

[summer_in_TX]

46. Trump supporters have an authoritarian morality, says formerly rightwing writer/podcaster Matthew Sheffield.

Sheffield worked for years in conservative media, but grew disillusioned. He brings insights into the origins and workings of the different reality that those of us on the left are so baffled by.

https://plus.flux.community/p/trump-supporters-are-almost-impossible?

Trump super fans are impossible to argue with because they don’t actually believe in logic
The far-right worldview is incomprehensible until you realize that devotees believe truth flows from authority rather than reality

The roots of authoritarian morality extend deep into human history. Many ancient civilizations operated under theocratic or monarchic systems where rulers were seen as divinely appointed or even incarnations of deity. These systems established a precedent where the ruler’s will was equated with moral rightness, a moral order centered around authority and obedience.

As humanity progressed scientifically and cognitively, the principles of authoritarianism remained attractive for many people. Its ideas provide simple and clear directives for social and political order: Loyalty and submission to the leader are paramount, and the leader’s actions are inherently justified by virtue of his/her position.

Submitting to authority figures had particular appeal to many early and medieval Christian fundamentalists who devised the moral argument known today as “divine command theory,” the idea that all morality is determined by God alone; anything God says is right.

Other moral viewpoints can exist, but if they are found to be in conflict with divine will, then they are by definition immoral or incorrect, even if science, history or other scholarship may support them.

One more snippet:

The moral hierarchy of authoritarianism operates on the principle of loyalty and obedience. Supporters are expected to align themselves with the leader and the movement’s goals, viewing dissent or criticism as moral failings

[Iggo]

47. Please, please, please don't let me read the replies only to find a bunch of not-all-white-people bullshit.

[flying_wahini]

49. As I say frequently to anyone who will listen, we have GOT to speak up and often.

Don’t let this slide into another “well, that’s the way it is”. We need to call them on their BS every damn time. Here in Texas, they just assume everyone agrees with them.
I beg to differ. When you do call them out they usually act shocked and get nasty and slink away.

Call them out. You don’t have to be ugly about it; but call them out.

[no_hypocrisy]

51. I agree. Were my father and my cousin alive, they'd be strongly supporting

Trump despite his implied antisemitism -- AND THEY'RE JEWS!!!

They both were racists and that overrode their fear of being targeted as Jews.

[betsuni]

52. Democrats and liberals know this.

Populists think it's not true.

[jaxexpat]

54. You're right about one thing for sure. Trump would never get elected if the WWll generation ...........

was voting. Scum such as he were relegated to the moment that generation was nearly extinct before they could slink past the cell-phone laden eyes of the average voter.

[Emile]

56. Trump called fallen soldiers losers and fools.

How can any veteran vote for that sob is beyond me.

[happy feet]

58. Add xenophobic for the full monty

[wolfie001]

59. When he used the term rapists and murderers

That was when I knew he was 100% shit. I never liked him in the '80s or '90s. I always thought he was a pompous ass. But this mf'er has gotten people killed with his hate rhetoric.

[toad-eye]

60. Don't understand "white NFL quarterbacks are idolized way beyond their relative capabilities"

"it is why white NFL quarterbacks are idolized way beyond their relative capabilities"... is such a strange line to include in your post.
It's a divisive statement. Implies that fans of an obviously multi racial league are racist in who they like and dislike.

I have been an NFL fan as long as I can remember.
First off, I "idolize" no man. NFL or otherwise.
They're just talented athletic men playing a game that is both physical AND mental.
Some are nice and some aren't. Not a job requirement.

Second, an NFL QB is either good or he isn't. No fan cares about what color he is.
Idolize 50% of (2 Super Bowls in a row winner) Patrick Mahomes?
Something tells me Mahomes he doesn't care what color the linemen were who protected him all season.
Or the races of his receivers he can't succeed without.
The fact that he's 1/2 Caucasian and 1/2 African American makes him even more popular because fans understand that football teams, like America, work only as a team.
If you're a fan of a team, you just want the best guy who can lead and win games, or the guy who doesn't drop passes that actually touch his hands.
touches.
Be professional. But be black? Be white? C'mon. I don't get that
No doubt there is racism/sexism in the coaching and administration in the NFL. The league has taken steps to fix that problem and we fans support this.
Still a ways to go.
The news implies everything is worse and racism is at it's peak.
I grew up in the 60's and it was so unbelievably racist back then.
Especially when I lived in Appalachia. Wow.
I also saw love and friendship. "leave him alone. He's cool." was always a wonderful thing to hear.
Yeah, lots of racism still.
But better than it was.
Can't let racism be normalized.