Would there be so many border crossers if there wasn't a 'market' for them on the US side?

[Attilatheblond]

This recruitment/hiring of US teens (sometimes as young as 12) to pick up border crossers and deliver them to points north has been going on for a while now. The money offered makes the young people figure it's worth the risk. They are too often involved in high speed chases though US border cities here on the US side of the line. There have been many accidents, many serious injuries, and some deaths.

Some of the latest examples here. But this is a near-daily occurrence here in the borderlands.
https://www.12news.com/article/news/regional/the-border/3-arizona-teens-recently-arrested-separate-instances-human-smuggling/75-5684b107-8618-4684-9f79-8e4238621d57

It is WAY past time to stop this and it will take busting illegal EMPLOYERS who profit from cheap, easily exploited and abused undocumented workers.

It's not asylum seekers who are 'illegal'. It is the profit driven US business owners who are dangling carrots to desperate refugees and under aged US citizens who a dazzled by the promise of big paydays per load.

If illegal employers were more likely to be facing prison, THAT might just slow the flow.

[Scrivener7]

1. It would solve the issue at a single stroke. But it'll never happen.

[MichMan]

2. That would be great if the penalties against the employers were enforced

It would make everyone here without a green card unemployable, and thus unable to support themselves & their families. Even those here for decades. That's what we want, right?

[hunter]

4. Step one. Give anyone who's been working here a green card.

Employers (the factory farm meat industry, for example) often hire undocumented workers because they can abuse them, not just with low wages but with unsafe working conditions, sexual harassment, etc..

With comfortable living wages and very strict enforcement of labor laws regardless of a workers immigration status these perverse and highly unethical "incentives" to hire undocumented workers would go away.

Businesses that can't pay a comfortable living wage and ensure the health and safety of their employees simply shouldn't exist.

If not for immigration, the economy of the U.S.A. would be stagnant.

[Attilatheblond]

13. Exploit, abuse, under pay, sexually abuse...YES! That is why many US employers LOVE undocumented workers

Such incentives would shrink if more, most, or hopefully ALL Illegal EMPLOYERS were treated to the full extent of violating laws.

Need workers? Give Dreamers, who were brought here as kids and have been responsible citizens, CITIZENSHIP! Many Dreamers were so young when brought here that they do not even remember anything about where they were born. Many of them only speak English and when 'caught & deported' are left adrift with no way to really live in a nation that is completely foreign to them.

GOP wants to force women have babies whether they want to or not and whether they can afford to or not, because 'WE NEED MORE PEOPLE'. There are a lot of better ways to solve the crisis they claim is happening in the labor market. There are PEOPLE who want to come to this nation and work, pay taxes, and spend their incomes on the same things the rest of us do. Why the big fuss about people crossing the border? Could it be skin tone? Yeah, that and a steaming heaping helping of monied donors who LOVE having undocumented workers to exploit. Plus, not allowing sensible immigration policies allows the GOP pols to wring their hands, spread fear and rally low info and racist voters.

There is enough for everyone, if we insist those who abuse and exploit to get more than they need just stop that crap.

[OldBaldy1701E]

17. You left out a part of that sentence.

GOP wants to force women have babies whether they want to or not and whether they can afford to or not, because 'WE NEED MORE PEOPLE'.

You left out the 'WE NEED MORE WHITE PEOPLE WHO THINK LIKE US'

Because that is the real reason for their posturing. It is why they don't say such things to anyone darker than a piece of typing paper. They don't want to fix anything, except the fact that their kind are fading away like cheap wallpaper in the sunshine. THAT they are desperate to fix and they will do so by any means necessary.

[underpants]

3. I saw a documentary years ago about recruiting at the border

Specifically Smithfield Packing. The big conspiracy on RW Twitter now is that Tyson foods is going to replace the Americans who work there with”illegals”.
🙄

This is a part of the equation no media bothers to mention. Rec’d and bookmarked

[Caliman73]

7. The worst part of this situation...

Immigrants are exploited, American workers get their wages depressed or are replaced, but the fools on the right wing will still inevitably blame EVERYONE EXCEPT the wealthy owners of those corporations who are actually the only ones who profit from the exploitation.

Right wingers blame the immigrants, they will blame workers and Unions for (whatever), they will blame Democrats for "open borders", but they won't blame the ACTUAL reason people come here, Capitalist exploitation. They won't say, "Hey, these wealthy corporations are cheating everyone out of a decent life so they can continue to be extremely rich and powerful, maybe we should stop THEM instead of turning on each other". They are willfully blind and ignorant.

[underpants]

10. Undocumented workers wouldn't even think of unionizing either

That was pointed out in the documentary.

[Caliman73]

11. They can't really unionize

Since they are working without documentation, organizing would paint a huge target on their backs. Corporations would have an easy time disrupting any organizing efforts by simply having those undocumented workers taken away and replacing them with others.

[underpants]

12. Yep.

Side note. The Smithfield plant in Tar Heel NC (they left Smithfield years ago) “processes” 30,000 pigs a day…every day.

[Caliman73]

21. That is insane!

And they the FDA allowed the corporations to speed up the processing lines, which gives inspectors less time to examine the animals for defects like infection, spoilage, etc...

We need to, as a society, really re-examine the incentive structures in our industries. Profit should not be the primary motive. It creates too much pressure to cheat and cut corners. It puts people's lives in danger.

[Attilatheblond]

14. and damned few of them break laws because they want to stay here to live and work

When GOP pols try the scare tactic about brown people being rapists, it makes my blood boil, especially considering the Golden Pig they worship.

[underpants]

20. Find 3-5% of Social Security too

At least that used to be the number. That includes people with ITN (Individual Tax Number) too.

Those here undocumented stay out of trouble as you said and don’t tend to ever collect on Social Security. The less eye balls on them the better.

[MichMan]

30. An ITN is for tax purposes only and does not have anything to do with paying into SS

[Coventina]

5. That's it in a nutshell. My (now deceased) FIL ranted about "illegals"

but hired them to work on his house.

(Not to mention his own grandfather immigrated here illegally in the early 20th century).

[SouthBayDem]

6. And that's a big flaw with the conservative arguments about immigration.

Focusing on the supply without thinking about the root cause.

"They're taking our jobs!" Well, who do you think hired them in the first place? (And who's voting for the politicians who consistently enable illegal employers to get away with it?)

"They import fentanyl!" Well, who's buying the drugs? (Oh, see also doctors who over prescribe opioids and such.)

[Attilatheblond]

15. Not only is it US citizens creating the demand for illegal drugs

it is also US citizens smuggling guns and ammunition into Mexico for the drug cartels; the same cartels who have created such dangerous conditions in Latin America that people are willing to risk their lives, walk thousands of miles, then risk more by trying to get into the US. Most want to get in legally, but US policies have made that all but impossible for most due to understaffed ports of entry for refugees and understaffed courts for them.

Pogo was right: We have met the enemy and it is us.

[RSherman]

8. Wow, I just had this conversation with my insurance man

He was going on and on about the "illegals". He said he saw on TV yesterday that companies are receiving tax credits for hiring immigrants before American citizens. I googled that when I got home and could only find references to something during the Obama administration that was conflated with the ACA. I informed him about a food processing plant that was raided by ICE. The owner made up SS numbers for the workers. He was sentenced to 27 years, and of course, Trump commuted his sentence to time served.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postville_raid

US companies absolutely profit from hiring/exploiting undocumented workers. They don't want the "immigration problem" solved. They love it.

Read "The Great Escape" in which US oil companies went through brokers to trick around 200 highly skilled welders from India to come to the US to repair the oil rigs that were damaged after Katrina. The companies didn't want to pay US union wages. Once the Indian men were here, they were basically imprisoned. They were finally able to get word to a labor organizer who helped free them.

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Escape-Forced-Immigrant-America/dp/1643750089/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.enWBNwKGK-CLMzIdIcgJ6Q.p6aOjVFJN9ytr2r_GsFPN0ngMaboHC5iVn9LTZZysVU&dib_tag=se&hvadid=649829406687&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1022952&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=10482733173284207178&hvtargid=kwd-1966889560963&hydadcr=8511_13545037&keywords=the+great+escape+by+saket+soni&qid=1710959505&sr=8-1

Also, because US employers make up SS numbers for undocumented workers, the employees contribute to the SS fund, but will never be able to collect. According to a book I read, undocumented workers have contributed $2T to Social Security. Yet, our politicians cry that the fund is constantly running out.

Also, a Target store in TX hires undocumented Mexicans to be night cleaners. They make them work 60 hours/week, no OT, because really, who are the employees going to complain to?

https://www.texastribune.org/2016/12/19/big-name-businesses-exploit-immigrant-labor/

And, Trump hired undocumented Polish workers when he bought the Bonwit Teller store and converted it to Trump Towers. Then promptly refused to pay them. (of course) There was a years long lawsuit which eventually concluded in some sort of settlement. (of course it was litigated! ugh!)

[Attilatheblond]

16. Excellent work taking a stand against the propaganda & lies too many fall for! Thank you.

When growing up in California, a LONG time ago, we had the Bracero Program that allowed non-citizens to come here to work the fields, providing relatively cheap produce for US markets and BIG profits for growers. There was Social Security money taken from every paycheck of those workers, for YEARS. But, they didn't see a penny of it when they were old, broken from hard labor, and back in their countries of origin.

Undocumented workers today are really abused. And businesses like it that way.

[RSherman]

19. Totally agree!

I don't know why my insurance man thought I was going to agree with him and when I gently relayed some of the above info., he got really quiet. They never know what to say outside of talking points.

[Attilatheblond]

22. Seems like they spout off because they want to be validated.

They think everyone agrees with them and hope for some sort of pat on the head for having remembered BS talking points from FOX. My theory is they are very insecure and looking for a gold star or something,

Knocks the wind right outta them when they get confronted by a sane person with FACTS to refute their stupid delusions. You did GREAT and could give workshops on taking down the rubes.

[RSherman]

24. Thanks so much!

[senseandsensibility]

9. There you go bringing in facts beyond the R scare tactics

Don't you know that that's not allowed? Neither is bringing up anything that might reflect poorly on rich people (employers) who vote in huge numbers for Rs.

[Attilatheblond]

18. Yeah, and here in the Border lands, I am one mouthy bitch, working to help elect DEMS locally,

and for state and national offices.

If I didn't raise hell, it is likely the ghosts of my grandmother, several great-great aunts and my mom would be making my life a pretty uncomfortable place. My daughter, well she's a fighter too and woe be unto any fool who dares to argue with her using falsies.

[Johonny]

23. Note immigration wasnt a problem when Trump

Turned America into a place no one wanted to visit during Covid.

[Attilatheblond]

25. Well, it was an issue down here in the Borderlands. Local MAGAs found much to scream about

but I get your point

[ripcord]

26. It was democrats who blocked the mandatory use of e-Verify

[Silent Type]

27. Agree that it would stop most migrants and force some to leave, but they are still poor

and need help even if in Mexico, Venezuela, Guatemala, etc.

My main concern is that those who have found a better life - and contributed to our communities for years/decades - aren’t deported out of hate, or have to leave because we find another way to run them off.

[Act_of_Reparation]

28. Probably.

Economic opportunity isn't the only reason people migrate to the US.

A good deal of the current migration seems fueled by domestic factors in the migrants' home countries. And if you're going to go anywhere, the US is probably your safest bet.

[MOMFUDSKI]

29. I remember they were Romney's lawn

workers that he was afraid of getting caught for. Shit

[mike_c]

31. self delete

I ended up writing something you'd already said. D'oh!

[samnsara]

32. so many of these people dont even realize they cant enter the US

..after months and months of treacherous hiking to get here. No wonder they are angry.