You know what is NOT happening in Baltimore?

[Collimator]

Nobody is shaking their heads and saying, "Yes, this is a terrible tragedy. But people make mistakes and maybe the pilot had mental health issues. But, hey, if you want to enjoy the freedom of buying lots of stuff inexpensively, you have to accept that these sorts of things will happen."

Nope. People are looking into what happened this morning with an eye to making sure that it doesn't happen again.

That's because it wasn't a mass shooting that took the lives of ordinary people just trying to get through an ordinary day.

[underpants]

1. Good points. RW Twitter is awash with conspiracy theories

From Black Swan to cyber attack to who knows since I last checked in

[RockRaven]

3. Also blaming DEI.

Completely without evidence of course.

[underpants]

6. Yep. Thinks I forgot those.

[sop]

24. Alex Jones is saying it's the start of WWIII.

Edit to add link: https://www.rawstory.com/alex-jones-baltimore-bridge/

"'WW3 has already started': Alex Jones leads unhinged reaction to Baltimore bridge collapse"

[underpants]

26. 🙄

Thanks.

[Aristus]

2. Yeah? Just wait until the cargo ship manufacturers get a lobbying group.

They will no doubt advocate for a Constitutional amendment. "Cargo ship disasters being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of cargo ships to ram into bridges shall not be infringed."

It's only a matter of time...

[Think. Again.]

4. Hopefully...

...an appeals will lower any bond by 60% that the responsible party might have to pay to secure the expense they caused.

[Kennah]

5. Biden was asked during a presser

If the ship is at fault, then should not the ship's owner pay for it.

Biden emphasized the feds would pay for it to get it done. Pursuit of a lawsuit against the ship's owner will take years, decades, if it ever comes to pass. Because that's the glory of being on the corporate gift using the courts.

[Flatrat]

7. The bridge was onviously not designed

to survive a collision with a large container ship like the Dali, fully loaded.

There are other bridges vulnerable.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. No bridge is, because they cannot be.

[HuskyOffset]

17. For sure they can be designed to withstand these collisions

They would just be considerably more expensive to build.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. I mean...it wouldn't be a bridge anymore. It would be an enormous barrier that could not serve any use.

[Disaffected]

27. Really?

Please justify that assertion (and your qualifications for making it).

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. A basic understanding of scale and physics.

[Disaffected]

39. A non-answer but thanks anyhow.

[EX500rider]

36. They can certainly have added protection

After the Sunshine Skyway accident in 1980 the bridge now has bridge support protection:

The question is why didn't other bridges get it, big ships losing power is not specific to Tampa Bay

[bdamomma]

29. There's alot

bridges that are faulty, but this was container ship that took it down.

The container ship was on its way to Sri Lanka. Massive amount of supplies.

[maxsolomon]

38. Ah, I remember the calls for the WTC to be engineered to

withstand the impact of a Commercial Jet Airliner at full speed with a full load of fuel.

[jmowreader]

54. The original was designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 departing JFK

There are two differences between that and what actually happened: the WTC planes were a lot bigger than a 707, and they were going faster. Physics is your enemy sometimes.

[maxsolomon]

55. Same with this bridge.

The design documents were finalized in 1972. Container Ships barely existed then, and none were close to the size of this beast.

[jmowreader]

58. Worse...

There are much larger ones than this. This ship is a “Neopanamax,” which is the biggest ship that’ll fit in the newest Panama Canal locks. It’s also one of the smallest ships used in trade - some of them can’t go through any canal on earth, and many of them can’t call on US ports because our ports aren’t deep enough.

Having said that, no one’s going to accuse a thousand-foot-long ship of being small. This thing is massive in ways that you and I couldn’t imagine when we were kids.

[lindysalsagal]

9. Because bridge building isn't a popular retail industry, like gunz

[Marcus IM]

10. Tugboats don't control ships in the turning basin?

Ships lose power, and no tugs controlling the turning basin and harbor exit?

Wow.

Tugboat operations cost money. Cost cutting rules the day.
American consumers demand it.

[et tu]

11. i rather think it's corporations' demand

most consumers have no leverage-

[Marcus IM]

14. Only the leverage of where they spend their money.

Temu, Amazon, Dollar Store, are going belly-up?

[Ford_Prefect]

12. American Consumers don't. American Corporations do. Ask the CEO how many containers paid for his Mercedes, his yacht,

his Island, or paid for his kids to get into Harvard and Cambridge? The crime in mass consumption is not the items people desire or borrow to pay for, it is those who have the Gold make all the rules and bend every law to keep it.

[Marcus IM]

13. American consumers don't demand low prices?

What?

[Ford_Prefect]

42. If it really worked that way the prices would actually be lower. the difference is the products cost the same but the

labour and regulatory costs are far lower elsewhere.

Remind me once again how much the CEOs and corporations paid in infrastructure supporting taxes last year? How much in wages to US employees? How much for Employee healthcare, daycare, and such? The enormous profit margin they garner by off-shoring manufacturing allows them to still profit enough to buy the US House and Senate, and the Supreme Court, along with many State Houses and Legislatures. I know the last one well because they own 85% of the Montana legislature, The Governor, both Congressmen and one Senator.

[Marcus IM]

43. You are not making a good argument for rapacious capitalism.

Freedom isn't free.

[Ford_Prefect]

44. Imagine....

[EX500rider]

37. It's up to the US Coast Guard & local harbor Masters to decide when tugboats are required

Maersk Shipping has no say in the matter

[Caliman73]

15. Consumers demand a fair price.

You are blaming regular people when the Wealthy people are the ones who set the prices.

Tugboat operators who cost money but save lives and ensure safety, should be the responsibility of the manufacturers, shippers, etc...

People are too quick to blame the people on the lowest rung of the ladder while giving a pass to those who make the most out of every transaction.

[Marcus IM]

18. So, low wages are also partly to blame?

I agree with that.

Consumers are forced to consume the cheapest products, which only worstens the problem.

I'm not blaming them.

Upset at the conditions that create more problems.

[Caliman73]

22. Capitalism is to blame.

It is an entire system, in which employees and consumers have the least amount of power.

Take for instance, climate change. Fossil fuel industry leaders absolutely knew, since the 1960's that pumping CO2 into the atmosphere was having a major effect on the climate. Did they work to make cars more fuel efficient? Did they look for alternatives for engine design? Did they take any steps at all to deal with the situation? No. They said to the consumer... "You need to reduce your carbon footprint". Recycle, reuse, etc... which don't get me wrong, those are good things and necessary, but have NOWHERE near the effect that even minor changes within the industry would have on climate change. They blocked at every turn, the technology for renewable sources of energy, to protect their revenue. They pitted employees of their companies against others, not for the benefit of the employees, but for their bottom line.

They vilified Hillary Clinton when she told the truth that coal needed to be reduced and eventually eliminated, with the explicit promise that new, good paying jobs would be found for those workers. Instead they said, "Hillary Clinton hates coal and hates you".

Employees are considered "liabilities" in accounting practice. An expense for the Capitalists, so they are expendable. The goal of for profit businesses are to make as much money as possible. The incentive is to sell more and cut expenses. That means cutting employees as if they were just a waste product of industries. Companies work more on marketing and branding than on the quality of the products. They think, and know they can fool people and create loyalty rather than producing good, long lasting products.

The conditions are created by the incentive structures. Don't get me wrong, we consumers do have a role to play, but that role, compared to the people who make millions, and billions of dollars, is fairly small.

[Marcus IM]

32. I agree in general with your critique of capitalism.

[Warpy]

16. It's only 52 years old, young for an east coast bridge

so that container ship must have given it a hell of a whack.

It seems the investigation will center on the ship's condition and the pilot bringing it in to the port. The only other thing I can think of is unexpected ship traffic in the area, although mechanical failure is most likely.

The bridge itself wasn't a hunk o junk, ready to fall under its own weight. Something catastrophic happened to the ship or harbor pilot.

[Marcus IM]

20. Ship lost power in the turning basin. No tugboats required.

Even in the Miami the cargo ship turning basin requires tugboats until boats reach the exit.

I am quite shocked that this isn't required there. Really shocked, especially considering the consequences.

[Warpy]

23. Thanks

I did say a catastrophic failure with the ship was most likely

Container ship ports supply pilots who know the harbor and the currents to bring the ship in to the dock and cranes.

[Marcus IM]

28. Yes. But without power or tugboats, disaster awaits. n/t

[Tansy_Gold]

21. The ship lost power

I saw one post either here or on Xitter that someone on the ship radioed the problem and police moved to halt traffic, but there wasn't sufficient time for the vehicles already on the bridge to make it across.

Did a little research and found this:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2024/03/26/baltimore-bridge-collapse-ship-dali/73105394007/

"The vessel notified MD Department of Transportation (MDOT) that they had lost control of the vessel" and a collision with the bridge "was possible," according to the report by DHS’ Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency. "The vessel struck the bridge causing a complete collapse."

Also that the DALI is multiple times bigger than anything that existed in 1977 when the bridge was built, and that there are container ships today even larger.

[Deep State Witch]

25. This is From a Friend

Whose husband was probably able to do these calculations in his head.

Okay, people who have NO FUCKING CLUE about physics asking "how could a ship knock down a bridge that easily?"
Doing approximations -
A fully loaded container ship at about 220,000 TONS of weight. (Taking that from the ship the Ever Given that got stuck in the Suez Canal - this one could have been MORE considering it was massively loaded)
Figure the channel speed is 8MPH (10MPH is "no wake", and it had lost some power, but let me tell you, inertia is a THING on a monster that big)
That translates to the rough equivalent of an explosive force of 3 TONS (6000 pounds, people) of TNT going on off on that bridge. And if you don't think 3 tons of TNT would take out a bridge that size, you are SADLY mistaken.
It was not "bad engineering of the bridge". It was not "lack of maintenance". It was PHYSICS. Please stop with the conspiracy theories.

[SlimJimmy]

47. I agree with you. The ship lost power for some reason, and they lost control.

Once that large fully loaded ship hit the center support, it was all over but the shouting. No conspiracy theories needed.

[Duppers]

50. THANK YOU ❗

And my physicist hubby thanks you!


(Retired NASA)

[rpannier]

51. Ahem. If people did that, Alex Jones wouldn't have anything to say

Which would be a blessing

[SYFROYH]

30. No one is proposing banning large container ships?

[Marcus IM]

33. Hell no! We demand cheap China made, no matter the consequences.

Freedom™ defined.

[RSherman]

31. My mother took me back to college using this bridge

It collapsed later the same day:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoharie_Creek_Bridge_collapse

[MichMan]

35. Place explosive mines around the perimeter of the bridge

Any ships that get too close get blown up and sink

[intrepidity]

41. Now *that's* creative problem solving! nt

[maxsolomon]

56. Best solution yet.

So practical!

[IronLionZion]

40. The only thing that stops a bad container ship is a good container ship

Nothing, absolutely nothing can be changed in the processes, policies, regulations, or laws that can stop a container ship from ramming a bridge if it is determined to do so. The people who died or were wounded have to simply pay the price of freedom because this is America. The right to keep and ship containers is in our constitution. What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand? The only solution to this problem is for Congress to appropriate funding for every bridge to be guarded by container ships. A container shipped society is a polite society. - the container ship industry lobbyists, or National Container Ship Association



Sailors have been as diverse as sailing itself. Ship workers have been diverse long before USA was a country.

I have not seen a single politician or talking head say the solution to this problem is thoughts and prayers or more ships. Or for kids to do their bridging and shipping at home.

[DFW]

45. One thing that DOES help

We have a Transportation Secretary who takes his job seriously.

[ShazzieB]

49. Yes, and thank goodness for that!

[SlimJimmy]

46. I don't believe the pilots made a mistake.

The ship lost power and they had no steering control. They even tossed in the emergency anchor, but it was too late.

[snpsmom]

52. Having been on ships

Tossing that anchor goes approximately like this:

1. Let go the anchor

2. Watch t make sure the first 5 - 6 shots of chain go

3. Run like hell because that chain is going to snap back and kill somebody when it fails because it will not stop the behemoth of a ship you are trying to anchor.

[quakerboy]

53. Seems like theres a concerning number of ship issues lately

I noticed we were having what seemed like a lot of embarrassing Navy collisions not too long ago.

Now this.

I wonder what could cause such things? Maybe its been happening all my life and i just never took notice?

[summer_in_TX]

48. The Sunshine Skyway Bridge now has "islands" around every support to prevent any other accidents.

Tugboats are a good idea in the interim, but the supports ultimately need to be protected.

All the bridges on shipping lanes should be assessed for vulnerabilities. It's cheaper to be proactive, and it can save lives.

While this bridge did not come down, as far as we know now, from any effects of aging or lack of upkeep, there are still many bridges across the country feeling the ill effects of what the Club for Growth started under Reagan. Their constant mantra for no new taxes and refusing to support any Republican who didn't sign their pledge led to disinvestment at all levels of government, in turn leading to the postponing or elimination of appropriate maintenance. We still have a lot of infrastructure that needs to be inspected for deterioration and any necessary repairs made.

[Jose Garcia]

57. No one is talking about banning container ships