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'Something Far Worse Than MAGA'
‘Something Far Worse Than MAGA’
September 14, 2024 at 8:40 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 328 Comments
https://politicalwire.com/2024/09/14/something-far-worse-than-maga/
"SNIP..............
Sofia Nelson: “Most Americans haven’t heard of the post-liberal right, the small but influential group of conservative, mostly Catholic men who have declared that liberal democracy, the animating principle of America’s founding, has failed and want to bring about a new social order where there is no separation of church and state and men and a hyperconservative Catholicism reign supreme. They are disdainful of secularism and individual liberty. Just like Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump illustrated during Tuesday night’s debate against Vice President Kamala Harris, these men idolize the authoritarian Viktor Orbán, the prime minister of Hungary.”
“They’re also nostalgic for Spain as it was run by the dictator Franco and see Orbán’s government and Franco’s as potential models for the kind of regime they wish to install in the United States. The group’s political priorities — which include restricting access to contraception and divorce and banning marriage equality and pornography — are wildly unpopular. And yet the Republican nominee for vice president, my former friend JD Vance, is a prominent voice of this fringe movement, as so many of his regrettable podcast interviews have demonstrated.”
...........SNIP"
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brewens
(15,359 posts)situation in this country. They have had since the 50s to push back against this fundamentalist crap and they didn't want to. Well, now it's probably gonna be done for them and they might get hurt too. Too fucking bad. It's a fairy tale.
pat_k
(10,883 posts)TX State Rep. James Talarico is a riveting speaker on the topic. I hope to see him on the national stage in the not too distant future. Some excerpts below. I highly recommend the entire sermon.
He told us we would know them by their fruits.
Jesus includes.
Christian Nationalism excludes.
Jesus liberates.
Christian Nationalism controls.
Jesus saves.
Christian Nationalism kills.
Jesus started a universal movement based on mutual love.
Christian Nationalism is a sectarian movement based on mutual hate.
Jesus came to transform the world.
Christian Nationalism is here to maintain the status quo.
They have co-opted the Son of God. They've turned this humble rabbi into a gun-toting, gay-bashing, science-denying, money-loving, fear-mongering fascist.
. . .
If this was truly a Christian nation, we would love all of our LGBTQ neighbors. If this was truly a Christian nation, we would make sure every child in this state and in this country was housed, fed, clothed, educated, and insured.
If this was truly a Christian nation, we would never make it a Christian nation because we know the table of fellowship is open to everybody, including our Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, and atheist neighbors.
. . .
The closest thing we have to the kingdom of heaven is a multiracial, multicultural democracy where power is truly shared among all people. Something that's yet to exist in human history.
. . .
When someone asked Jesus to name his most important commandment, he cheats and gives two -- two that he says are related. The first is to love God. The second, he said, "Is like it: love they neighbor as thyself." It's like it because when I recognize the divine image in myself, I can't help but recognize it in my neighbor; whether they're Christian or not, whether they're religious or not. In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus specifically defines neighbor as some different from us, racially, economically, politically, religiously. God loves diversity; God loves variety. Just look around this beautiful planet of ours.
. . .
God is so much bigger than our human categories. God is not a Presbyterian. God is not a Christian.
God it not a noun at all.
God is a verb.
God is not a being.
God is being itself.
God is love.
And that's why Jesus is against anything that gets in the way of that love between neighbors, including religion.
. . .
That's why he says sinners will get to the kingdom of heaven before religious people do. Sorry to everyone here. I know you came all this way.
. . .
The kingdom of God inverts the power dynamics of "all the kingdoms in the world."
True strength is vulnerability.
True status is equality.
True wealth is sharing.
And we as Christians are called to realize that kingdom "on earth as it is in heaven," not by force, but by faith.
Jesus asked us to have the faith of a mustard seed, trusting that by living and dying for love we give birth to a better world.
That's not easy to do.
. . .
Christian Nationalists are more committed to the love of power than the power of love.
And it exposes a lack of faith because the opposite of faith is not doubt. Doubt is a healthy part of any faith.
The opposite of faith is control. When we stop trusting God, when we stop trusting love, we start taking control for ourselves.
Christian Nationalists want to control what we read, who we marry, where we travel, when we have children. They want to control our minds and our bodies.
"O ye of little faith."
. . .
brewens
(15,359 posts)pat_k
(10,883 posts)
Skittles
(160,359 posts)it's just a matter of degree
wnylib
(24,803 posts)Joseph Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Raphael Warnock, Chuck Schumer, Adam Schiff, Hillary Clinton, Michele Obama, Kamala Harris, Martin Luther King, Jr., Doug Emhoff
Hekate
(95,305 posts)
JanMichael
(25,320 posts)pat_k
(10,883 posts)It is beyond my ability to wrap my head around where we are at this juncture. The unimaginable 30 years ago is being normalized and is gaining footholds in the mainstream.
The book "Unhumans" -- the far, far, far right dystopian vision of fascism saving the world -- is a prime example too.
Unhumans
Forward by Bannon,
Blurbed by J.D. Vance, Don Jr., and Tucker Carlson, among others.
Opinion
Michelle Goldberg
JD Vance Just Blurbed a Book Arguing That Progressives Are Subhuman
Aug. 5, 2024
Paywall free link to NYTimes
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/05/opinion/jd-vance-fascism-unhumans.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Bk4.xGes.1_ONuyrQ-M2p&smid=url-share
“Unhumans,” an anti-democratic screed that Posobiec co-wrote with the professional ghostwriter Joshua Lisec, comes with endorsements from some of the most influential people in Republican politics, including, most significantly, vice-presidential candidate JD Vance.
As they tell it, modern progressivism is just the latest incarnation of an ancient evil dating back to the late Roman Republic and continuing through the French Revolution and Communism to today. Often, they write, “great men of means” are required to crush this scourge. The contempt for democracy in “Unhumans” is not subtle. “Our study of history has brought us to this conclusion: Democracy has never worked to protect innocents from the unhumans,” write Posobiec and Lisec.
One of their book’s heroes is the Spanish dictator Francisco Franco, who overthrew the democratic Second Spanish Republic in the country’s 1930s civil war. The authors call him a “great man of history” and compare him to George Washington. They quote him on what doesn’t work against the unhuman threat: “We do not believe in government through the voting booth. The Spanish national will was never freely expressed through the ballot box.”
Nakedly authoritarian ideas like this one are not uncommon in the dank corners of the reactionary internet, or among the sort of groups that led the Jan. 6 insurrection. “Unhumans” lauds Augusto Pinochet, leader of the Chilean military junta who led a coup against Salvador Allende’s elected government in 1973, ushering in a reign of torture and repression that involved tossing political enemies from helicopters.
Pinochet-inspired helicopter memes have been common in the MAGA movement for years. And as the historian David Austin Walsh wrote last year, there’s long been a cult of Franco on the right. Nevertheless, it’s extremely unusual for a candidate for vice president of the United States to openly align himself with autocratic terror.
. . .
I am mystified that the title of this book and the author isn't being spread as far and wide as the danger of project 2025.
Unhumans goes so much farther down the dystopian authoritarian path.
By blurbing this book, Vance, Carlson, and Don Jr. are endorsing the glorification of the reign of murdering facists like Franco and Pinochet nd endorsing a vision of DT/Vance leading a similar purge.
We can keep the focus on the message of hope and joy, but we CANNOT ignore the implication of this book and how utterly horrifying the premise and "solutions" offered are.
NickB79
(19,668 posts)Under His Eye.
Xavier Breath
(5,174 posts)
markodochartaigh
(2,221 posts)n/t
they all must have read or watched and got off on Gilead dystopian ways.
It's all about power, and to demoralize women and other ethnicities. They have a hate factor in them.
mucholderthandirt
(1,207 posts)This is the plan the evangelicals have for America, and especially women. It was like it was a playbook for how to turn the country into some religious hellhole, and I believe some of them took it that way. They've certainly been working towards this since Reagan, and likely long before that.
Make the paradise of Gilead for white men of power. Everyone else lives by their desire. Everyone else is property, women know their place, and death is the punishment. Women who are Republicans, especially those MAGA fools, better pay attention. They are not the equals, they are still women. No rights. No protections.
We can never stop rooting out this nonsense. Never stop killing it at the first sign. We're behind already, we have a lot of catching up to do. With any luck, as the fools trying to bring this forth die off, there aren't as many younger ones stepping up. Young people need to be lead to right thinking, being liberal, being kind, being everything those kinds of people are claiming to be, but aren't.
NickB79
(19,668 posts)A book written 40 yr ago, to boot. Blew her young mind.
So I told her to vote accordingly this Nov or she might get to experience it in real life.
Ilsa
(62,284 posts)park their asses on it. I bet the women in their lives would tell them, "We'll join you later, Honey," all the while staying put to protect themselves and their daughters' rights in our modern secular democracy.
Think. Again.
(19,129 posts)
Frank D. Lincoln
(652 posts)
GB_RN
(3,219 posts)We’ve tried this shit before. Colloquially known as the Dark Ages (but really goes from the fall of the Roman Empire, up to Age of Enlightenment). How’d all that work out? Religious wars, witch hunts and the Inquisition, suppression of science, learning (and the search for knowledge beyond the church), oppression of women, and the conquest of “heathen” people all around the world, done “in the name of god.”
I’m sure there are a few more atrocities that I forget to include.
And, lest we forget, this same type of “government” is still around: Iran and their Ayatollahs, Afghanistan and its ruling Taliboneheads (and you can probably throw in a few wannabes here in the US, like Alabama…)
So, again, I’ll say no. Hard pass.
mucholderthandirt
(1,207 posts)Well, except for a certain few. They use education against us, keep us stupid, they control who learns and what they learn.
This is why they hate science, because science disproves everything they say. They aren't even really believers, but since the beginning it's been a tool to suppress and control others. It's all about power, in the end.
ancianita
(38,880 posts)the Vicar of Christ and St. Peter's successor -- whether it's about Catholics' faith, the church's 2,000-year structure, or about this nation and separation of church and state.
Here's a look at how Pope Francis (born Jorge Mario Bergoglio in Buenos Aires, Argentina) lives and believes...
...Francis has made women full members of dicasteries in the Roman Curia.[3][4] He maintains that the Catholic Church should be more sympathetic toward members of the LGBT community, and has stated that while blessings of same-sex unions are not permitted, the individuals can be blessed, as long as the blessings are not given in a liturgical context.[5] Francis is a critic of unbridled capitalism, consumerism, and overdevelopment;[6] he has made action on climate change a leading focus of his papacy.[7] Widely interpreted as denouncing the death penalty as intrinsically evil,[8] he has termed it "an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person", "inadmissible", and committed the Church to its abolition,[9] saying that there can be "no going back from this position".[10]
In international diplomacy, Francis has criticized the rise of right-wing populism, called for the decriminalization of homosexuality,[11] helped to restore full diplomatic relations between the United States and Cuba, negotiated a deal with China to define how much influence the Communist Party has in appointing Chinese bishops, and has supported the cause of refugees during the European and Central American migrant crises, calling on the Western World to significantly increase immigration levels.[12][13] In 2022, he apologized for the Church's role in the "cultural genocide" of the Canadian indigenous peoples.[14] On 4 October 2023, Francis convened the beginnings of the Synod on Synodality, described as the culmination of his papacy and the most important event in the Catholic Church since the Second Vatican Council.[4][15][16]...
Francis is the first Jesuit pope. This was a significant appointment ... He is also the first from the Americas,[143] and the first from the Southern Hemisphere.[144] Many media reported him as being the first non-European pope, but he is actually the 11th; the previous was Gregory III from Syria, who died in 741. Moreover, although Francis was not born in Europe, he is ethnically European; his father and maternal grandparents are from northern Italy.[145]
As pope, his manner is less formal than that of his immediate predecessors: a style that news coverage has referred to as "no frills", noting that it is "his common touch and accessibility that is proving the greatest inspiration".[146] On the night of his election, he took a bus back to his hotel with the cardinals, rather than be driven in the papal car.[147] The next day, he visited Cardinal Jorge María Mejía in the hospital and chatted with patients and staff.[148] At his first media audience, the Saturday after his election, the pope explained his papal name choice, citing Saint Francis of Assisi as "the man who gives us this spirit of peace, the poor man", and he added "[h]ow I would like a poor Church, and for the poor".[149]
In addition to his native Spanish, he speaks fluent Italian (the official language of Vatican City and the "everyday language" of the Holy See) and German. He is also conversant in Latin (the official language of the Holy See),[150] French,[151] Portuguese,[152] and English,[153][154] and he understands the Piedmontese language and some Genoese.[155]
Francis chose not to live in the official papal residence in the Apostolic Palace, but to remain in the Vatican guest house, in a suite in which he can receive visitors and hold meetings. He is the first pope since Pope Pius X to live outside the papal apartments.[156] Francis still appears at the window of the Apostolic Palace for the Sunday Angelus.[157]
As a Jesuit pope, he has been "making clear that a fundamental task of the faithful is not so much to follow rules but to discern what God is calling them to do. He is altering the culture of the clergy, steering away from what he has named as "clericalism" (which dwells on priestly status and authority) and toward an ethic of service (Francis says the church's shepherds must have the "smell of the sheep", always staying close to the People of God)."[158]
On 13 December 2023, in an interview with Mexican broadcaster Televisa, Francis said that his "great devotion" was to the Salus populi Romani icon at the Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome. Francis also told the news outlet that his tomb was already prepared at the basilica near the icon. Francis will be the first pope since Pope Leo XIII to be buried outside the Vatican.[159]
Permanut
(6,714 posts)I'm impatient about changes in church leadership across the entire Christian world, not just with Catholics. I've been a member of a Lutheran Church for many years; joined before finding out that Lutheran was, shall we say, not exactly enlightened.
dpibel
(3,439 posts)That the guy?
The one who says Harris and Trump are both evil?
The one who apparently can't tell the difference between them, so says, "choose the lesser"?
Or is there a different, kinder and gentler, pope that I don't know about?
And, of course, there's the "No True Scotsman" part of your objection...
ArkansasDemocrat1
(3,213 posts)SMH
ancianita
(38,880 posts)But will try to correctly infer ...
When he says it's up to you to decide, he is a humble coequal in the body of Christ, and not one to judge another.
As a Jesuit he has been called to take and live by the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience .
You might also think it strange that in that state it's not "strange."
mucholderthandirt
(1,207 posts)I don't forget that the Catholic church worked against us more than once. They supported the Nazis, for gods' sakes. Allowed generations of sexual abuse. And more. Let's not put them, any of them, up as examples of "good". Many are, not all, and the Church itself isn't clean of sin.
ancianita
(38,880 posts)Sin itself has been understood throughout all the world's religions, and honest religions know that no human is without sin.
Jesus, central to the Old and New Testaments, made forgiveness central in the prayer he taught his apostles to pray, the "Our Father" -- "... and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us..."
In Matthew chap 18, verse 21-22, when Peter (the rock on which Jesus would build his Church, and the first pope) asked "Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus answered "I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven..."
These acts of confession for the sins of the Church are brought to Jesus who stands with the priest at the altar in every Catholic Mass in millions of Catholic churches, 3-4 times on Sunday and at least one Mass Mon-Sat of every week. The point of the Eucharist is central to the Mass because Jesus instituted God's New Covenant through the partaking of his body and blood, shed for the forgiveness of sins.
In every Mass attended by a good portion of the 1.375 billion Catholics worldwide, the priest says before 'holy communion,' "O Lord Jesus Christ, who said to Your Apostles: " 'Peace I leave you, my peace I give you,' regard not our sins but the faith of your Church, and deign to give her peace and unity according to your will: who lives and reigns, one God, world without end. Amen" Every Mass. Millions of times every day worldwide.
2000 Pope Asks Forgiveness for Errors Of the Church Over 2,000 YearS
https://archive.ph/VzK3I
2014 Pope Francis asks forgiveness for priests who sexually abused children
https://www.cnn.com/2014/04/11/world/europe/vatican-pope-sex-abuse/index.html
2016 Pope Francis asks Protestants for forgiveness for past persecution
https://www.reuters.com/article/opinion/pope-francis-asks-protestants-for-forgiveness-for-past-persecution-idUS926888354/
Pope Francis empowers priests to forgive abortion
https://theweek.com/pope-francis/54250/pope-francis-empowers-priests-to-forgive-abortion
2017 Pope Francis asks for forgiveness for church's role in Rwanda genocide
Pontiff acknowledges some Catholic priests and nuns ‘succumbed to hatred and violence’ by taking part in 1994 killings https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/20/pope-francis-asks-for-forgiveness-for-churchs-role-in-rwanda-genocide
2022 Other times popes have apologized for the sins of the Catholic Church
https://archive.ph/4BG45
slightlv
(4,445 posts)to the National Apostolic Reformation. The Dominionists have been on this track for decades. They're pulling in people from all denominations who feel as they do. Unfortunately, there are sects within the Catholic church for whom the Dominionists offer an answer that the Catholic church does not. Especially now that Francis is the pope. These sects include Opus Dei, but there are others just as severe or even more so. They will not rest until they create not only an authoritarian government in America, but that they are the top dogs within that gov't. For them, they will not rest until we are an authoritarian theocracy, in the vein of the Middle Eastern countries. They really want an Iran in America. Further, they consider anything they do towards this end to be justified by their god. That means lying, cheating, even murder is okay and forgiven because of what they believe god wants. These are the most dangerous people in the United States, and even tho we have a first amendment right to freedom of religion, I believe this religious group should be classified as terrorists, just as we classify Islamist groups as terrorists. Their goals are the same. They would wipe out everything creative and innovative in the United States. We would see our country go downhill in the same way the Middle Eastern countries have done since the dominance of modern Islam. The Middle East used to be the center of learning... math, language, philosophy, art... and yet see where they are now. We would be just like that.
Many of us have been warning about the Dominionists for years, and falling on deaf ears. Now is the time to open up and realize we fight a many headed enemy. And start changing some laws and rules that allow them to run rampant. IMNSHO!
relayerbob
(7,071 posts)Aimed at Catholics, by Protestant evangelicals, would make for an interesting Holy War
Response to relayerbob (Reply #14)
applegrove This message was self-deleted by its author.
Johnyawl
(3,209 posts)...for 30 years 1618 to 1648, 8 million deaths. The German states lost 50% of their population.
relayerbob
(7,071 posts)and in many. other places for centuries. We've seen this movie before
markodochartaigh
(2,221 posts)very many protestants didn't even consider Catholics to be Christians. It started to change under Reagan and by 2000 the protestants started getting much more comfortable with the Catholic church as the US bishops became more and more reich-wing under the influence of opus "dei" money. It isn't difficult to see a future where the US church, and maybe the churches in a few African countries are in schism with Rome, but closely allied with the protestants who burned crosses on the lawns of their great grandparents and chased them out of town in the middle of the night (from my Grandmother's personal experience). I would bet though that as soon as the reich-wing Catholics and protestants have achieved power and begun to cleanse the country of those of us whom they deem unworthy, they will fight amongst themselves much worse than during the founding days of the US when different colonies had different religions.
relayerbob
(7,071 posts)
rubbersole
(8,716 posts)When someone speaks to god, could be considered devout.
When god speaks to you/them, batshit crazy.
struggle4progress
(120,556 posts)pat_k
(10,883 posts)Pinochet-inspired helicopter memes have been common in the MAGA movement for years. And as the historian David Austin Walsh wrote last year, there’s long been a cult of Franco on the right. Nevertheless, it’s extremely unusual for a candidate for vice president of the United States to openly align himself with autocratic terror.
. . .
More in post upthread:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219462263#post2
Warpy
(113,131 posts)Those guys have been around forever. Most of them are content to bore the everloving shit out of everybody around them, especially the parish priest, and givr lonh winded graces at holidy meals while everything gets stony cold and the wife glares at him. Once in a while you realize they were only hiding behind the cross but mostly they're the true believers because none of the crutelty of the church toward women ever affects them in the least.
I had an uncle who would easily have qualified for that bunch. He finally drank himself to death some years ago. I think drunk was the only way he could keep lying to himself.
azureblue
(2,328 posts)who think Catholics are going to hell because they worship idols.. The same religion that is behind the "Ten Commandments for school kids" crap. Who would have a cow if a "Hail Mary" was said in school, much less a Pater Noster.
Warpy
(113,131 posts)Moving to NC when I was a kid was my first experience of coming into contact with a completely alien culture.
Outside the south, kids were just kids. Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish kids went different places in uncomfortable clothes accompanied by parents whose "stpp squirming!" could have been the appropriate responses to the service in progress, they were issued so often, but it was all the same to us, the true religious universal.
Not so the Southern Baptist kids I met down south. It was a near theocracy at that time, the SB preachers coming around once a week to every public school class for an hour of SB bible study, heavy on Leviticus, the kids sending me to hell multiple times a day no matter the context. It got old really fast.
I thought they had to be the worst of the worst until I fled up to Boston to be reacquainted with the True Believer Catholics, a slightly more familiar but no less bilious flavor of religious bigotry.
So I'm not impressed by strutting roosters calling themselves "post liberal." That breed has been around forever. Sensible people ignore them until the cops find their computers loaded with highly questionable files.
mucholderthandirt
(1,207 posts)Nobody really talked about religion in school. We didn't have prayers, or even the Pledge of Allegiance at that point.
I knew Catholics, all flavors of Baptists, Protestants, even a Jew or two. The only time I ever saw a kid have issues about their religion was a Jehovah's Witness girl who was treated like shit by the teacher around the time of a holiday celebration. The girl said she couldn't participate in the singing of songs about Christmas, since it was against her faith.
The teacher said the girl could sit out in the hall while we practiced. Maybe she'd learn better while listening to the songs! I wouldn't sing, after that. I sat at the back, didn't participate. I had my own issues with that teacher.
It was uncalled for, by a love thy neighbor "Christian", but the school would do nothing. The girl ended up being pulled from school. I made a point of sitting with her at lunch, since no one else would. She was nice, but by that point she just "dropped" out, endured. 
Warpy
(113,131 posts)and Dumbuckistan has never forgiven them for that and has tryed every wa they can think of to bring those bible study classes back into public schiiks, The Court acted a little too late for me, I was made a target of every snot nosed bully in town because I spent that time in the library instead of gittin SAVED, yee haw.
UpInArms
(51,911 posts)Warpy
(113,131 posts)since he let me know there were other unbelievers in the world and it wasn't necessarily a bad thing to be one.
O'Hair came later.
ArkansasDemocrat1
(3,213 posts)First time I'd even encountered it. Never heard that in California. Didn't forget, neither.
Never lived where "Where do you go to church?" was a topic in a first conversation. Guess that's how you assign social status here.
AlexSFCA
(6,275 posts)This is post maga, post alt right, much more dangerous, totalitarian (beyond authoritarian) movement within the US. Everyone should know about, project 2025 is just the start of changing democratic republic into an authoritarian state which takes a few years, beyond that lies NRx. Vance is mainstreaming it and I am still puzzled why so few people cover it - they are quite successful with this ideology in capturing young men minds. I guess it’s like P2025, takes a year or so for the media to catch on. It would convert authoritarian US (if trump wins) into monarchy, fascists like state after a few years. The select few will have a total control over population.
mucholderthandirt
(1,207 posts)Religion and greed are the downfall of us all. Need to get rid of both.
progressoid
(50,789 posts)
pat_k
(10,883 posts). . then the only non-Catholics of the nine are Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson.
With Catholics making up only about a quarter of the U.S. population, that is notable.
mucholderthandirt
(1,207 posts)Could be why he and RFK had to go. They stood in the way of these people. Considering Biden is Catholic, it might be why they've been gunning for him. It's a scary thought that he might have been killed during a second term, because he certainly isn't one of those kind of people.
I still believe that the moment our ancestors stepped down out of the trees and surveyed the veldt, the craziness began. The crazy may have been why we came down. There's something seriously wrong with humanity, or big chunks of it. Way to much power-hungry, do whatever it takes to get it throughout human history to not wonder why. Even the good people elect this madness, support it, believe it's the right thing.
And yes, I love my new tin foil hat. Why do you ask? 
PortTack
(34,840 posts)PikaBlue
(264 posts)and that man was John Carroll of Maryland.
Bettie
(17,390 posts)are upset that women are getting 'uppity'...and being egged on by right wing oligarchs to destabilize society.
BlueWavePsych
(3,056 posts)
JI7
(90,901 posts)A lot of support from Trump is incel porn addicted types that would never support religious conservatives becsuse they don't want their porm taken away.
And the idiots that find Trump entertaining.
Religious conservatives have usually not done well even in the Republican Primary.
Hotler
(12,390 posts)The thought of the christian nutjobs getting control of our military and nuclear weapons should scare the whole world. In the name of our Jesus, we bomb your country back into the stone age.