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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsExploding pagers injure hundreds in attack targeting Hezbollah members, Lebanese security source says
Updated 11:14 AM EDT, Tue September 17, 2024
CNN
Hundreds of people were injured Tuesday in an attack targeting the pagers of Hezbollah members, a Lebanese security source told CNN, with state media reporting that dozens of members of the militant group were wounded.
Irans Ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani, was among those injured in Beirut, according to Iranian state media. He has a superficial injury and is currently under observation in the hospital, state media IRNA reported, citing his wife.
Lebanons Ministry of Health has urged citizens who possess pagers to discard them and warned hospitals to be on high alert.
State media NNA reported that hacked pager devices exploded in the towns of Ali Al-Nahri and Riyaq in Lebanons central Beqaa valley, resulting in a significant number of injuries. The locations are Hezbollah strongholds.
Snip
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/17/middleeast/lebanon-hezbollah-pagers-explosions-intl/index.html
Question: just how in the world is Israel blowing up pagers of all things? Rechargeable batteries?
Darwins_Retriever
(884 posts)x
Sneederbunk
(14,873 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,721 posts)JackSabbath
(175 posts)Might as well poison the water supply. FU.
elias7
(4,153 posts)I dont understand how people take the time to realize that terrorists are people too, and that they have families and pets and children, while at the same time dont accept retaliation from their victims as being a valid response.
Beastly Boy
(10,607 posts)Oh wait, what kids? What pets? Who hurt them? Any confirmation of what you are talking about?
On the completely unrelated side note: Hezbollah confirms, over 2,000 of their operatives got hurt. Might as well euthanize all the puppies at the ASPCA.
3Hotdogs
(13,127 posts)Bmoboy
(362 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,674 posts)sdfernando
(5,247 posts)I have 2 phones....one for work and one personal. I usually carry one in my front left pocket and the other in my rear left pocket...I'm sure my gonads are all irradiated by now so I guess it doesn't matter!
Beastly Boy
(10,607 posts)sarisataka
(20,334 posts)I am just waiting to find out if this is a war crime, an act of genocide or both...
haele
(13,206 posts)Lebanon is a sovereign nation with a Christian president - even though there is a corruption crisis going on in their government. It's a Democratic Tri-partied government between Sunni (Lebanese Palestinian refugees are primarily Sunni), Shia (Hezbollah is Shia), and Christian (generally Arab Druze). And Lebanon is also considered an ally of the US, like Egypt and Turkey.
While Hezbollah is a Iranian proxy (sort of like the NRA is a Russian Proxy), it is not officially the Shia representative within the Lebanese government.
So, does Israel have permission from the government of Lebanon to target Hezbollah when Hezbollah fires rocket into Israel?
If so, what they've done is fine. I'm not saying it's lawful or "good", but considering some of the shit our CIA does, I'm grateful it's just targeting Hezbollah members and not including family members, neighbors, or random business owners. This sort of attack is almost civilized, if not for the fact it is being done in a separate sovereign nation.
While not trying to snark your position, in a geo-political sense, why haven't they targeted Hamas in Gaza in a similar manner?
After all, Hamas, originally Shia, rose from loud, pushy minority/majority tribe amongst the Palestinians in Gaza (for whatever reason - they didn't rise to power with more than 36% of the vote over a decade ago), and are apparently continuing to gain support amongst the Arab tribes that wouldn't normally align with them due to the virulently religious Sunni/Shia divide.
Haele
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)You do bring up an interesting point, that Lebanon is a sovereign nation. No one denies Hezbollah is attacking Israel from Lebanese territory without explicit permission from the Lebanese government.
It begs the question "must Israel endure the attacks without any response even if the Lebanese government can't/won't take action against Hezbollah?"
tritsofme
(18,035 posts)haele
(13,206 posts)Gotta be a good guy, gotta be a bad guy.
Frankly, I blame the British (and the French) for playing both sides against the other throughout the 19th century and early 20th century.
The Middle East is tribal. It has always been tribal.
There were always radicals and the occasional tribal absolutist, but the majority of the tribal Arabs; Arab Muslims, Arab Jews, Arab Christians, and the various flavors of those religions in between, were comfortable with a collective idea of regional "state" with common laws allowing for socio-economic tribal security despite the different customs between them. They all considered themselves "People of the Book" after the fall of the remnants of the Roman Empire and the rise of Arab Islam.
Muslim Despots might come in and rule for a couple decades any particular region causing upheaval every couple hundred years, but the majority of the time, local government always settled down to the idea of community and stability between the tribes living there. There were communities of non-Muslims living in communities for a thousand years and longer throughout Muslim dominated regions of sub-saharan Africa and the Middle East up through the 20th century.
But the Europeans had to muck around forcing rigid state identities with random geographic boundaries and appointed the richest tribe who would work with them in those states as governing bodies - and finally setting up overarching bureaucratic government systems to make these new states "western", no matter what the customs or privileges the previous tribal system had in place for centuries. A lot of tribes and religious communities, especially the migratory ones, still have problems adapting to these official "states" that split their tribes and communities into new, distinct countries.
Haele
Hekate
(93,551 posts)jmbar2
(5,846 posts)Mosby
(17,002 posts)Hezbollah essentially operates as a government in the areas under its control, and neither the military nor federal authorities can counter this, Arab Barometer analysts MaryClare Roche and Michael Robbins write for Foreign Affairs. It manages a vast network of social services that include infrastructure, health-care facilities, schools, and youth programs, all of which have been instrumental in garnering support for Hezbollah from Shiite and non-Shiite Lebanese alike. Even so, Arab Barometer polling in 2024 found that despite Hezbollahs significant influence in Lebanon, relatively few Lebanese support it.
At the same time, Hezbollah maintains its military arm. Under the 1989 Taif Agreement, which was brokered by Saudi Arabia and Syria and ended Lebanons civil war, Hezbollah was the only militia allowed to keep its arms. The International Institute for Strategic Studies estimated in 2020 that the militia had up to twenty thousand active fighters and some twenty thousand reserves, with an arsenal of small arms, tanks, drones, and various long-range rockets. Analyst and Brigadier General (Ret.) Assaf Orion, of Israels Institute for National Security Studies, says Hezbollah possesses a larger arsenal of artillery than most nations enjoy, and a 2018 report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies called it the worlds most heavily armed non-state actor. In June 2024, experts speculated that Hezbollah has 150,000200,000 rockets and missiles of various ranges.
Hezbollah (and Lebanon) are in violation of UNSCR 1559 and 1701, which call for the group to be disarmed.
Beastly Boy
(10,607 posts)to give Israel permission to to target the hell out of them?
I would speculate that the permission is already written and signed by the legitimately elected Maronite Christian President of Lebanon and is just awaiting Hezbollah's permission...
Oh wait, there hasn't been a legitimately elected President in Lebanon since 2016... and Hezbollah may have something to do with it.
Clearly it is a genocidal war crime war criminal double genocide.
These nice young men were all ruthlessly targeted for the mere act of firing rockets at schools that killed a dozen kids. Thats resistance against occupation!
jmbar2
(5,846 posts)Someone had to distribute vulnerable pagers to the bad guys in advance. Can't wait to learn more about how they did it.
onandup
(558 posts)We know at least one child was killed.
BrianTheEVGuy
(420 posts)Harbor terrorists, and youre in the crossfire. A lesson many need to relearn.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)Oh, let me guess, ISRAEL
onandup
(558 posts)Was this is a well targeted attack on fighters, or a spray and pray inside a population? Will be interested to learn more.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)Gee, I haven't heard Israel claim responsibility yet.
Sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind already.
Biased much?
onandup
(558 posts)Are we really going to do that dance?
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)You?
You immediately jump to the conclusion that Israel is responsible without even knowing if that's true.
And yes, we are going to do that dance.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)
initiated WWI and WWII, if you were alive then would you have wept ONLY for the German children? Would you have blamed the British, the French, Belgians, Poles, Dutch, and all the other countries for fighting back, for bombing, for all the other deadly means they used to fight back and survive? Would you weep for THEIR children in their schools and marketplaces and holiday excursions? Or only for the children of the aggressor?
Or would you have recognized that the costs of war are vicious and many, and the blame rests on those who began it?
onandup
(558 posts)Rhetoric on both sides, though.
thucythucy
(8,623 posts)and kill Israeli children.
I take it you think Israel ought not to try to take out the people firing the rockets?
The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor didn't "credibly threaten the existence" of the United States.
So you think the US military response was unjustified?
Hekate
(93,551 posts)
and attempt to drive all the Jews into the sea every man, woman, and child.
That is what Intifada is about. That is what so many of the slogans and symbols being used by idiot American protestors are all about. Splashing red paint on peoples doors in a kind of triangle is a Hamas signal meaning Kill the people inside. This shit is pure Hamas.
If Hamas and Hezbollah and the rest gave a flying fig about Palestinians there is so much they could do to make their lives better. Instead they have kept them as miserable pawns for 70 years because driving Israel off the face of the Earth is more important.
onandup
(558 posts)Meanwhile, genocidal public statements are commonplace in Israel. Neither side has a monopoly on this type of speech.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)Try again
onandup
(558 posts)Hekate
(93,551 posts)onandup
(558 posts)a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)thucythucy
(8,623 posts)You said no one is "creditably threatening" the existence of Israel, so evidently you think retaliating against those who fire rockets into Israel and kill Israeli children is therefore unjustified.
I mentioned that the Japanese Empire never "creditably threatened" the existence of the United States.
So American action after Pearl Harbor was therefore unjustified?
Did Osama bin Laden "credibly threaten" the existence of the United States?
Should we therefore not have gone after him in his hideaway in Pakistan?
So killing the citizens of a nation isn't enough? One has to "credibly threaten" the very existence of that nation, or else any action taken against those who attack it and kill its citizens is what? A war crime?
Just asking for a little clarification here.
onandup
(558 posts)I think many are provocative.
Do you believe every Israeli military action is self-defense, or am I misunderstanding?
thucythucy
(8,623 posts)But then, do you believe that every Israeli military action is unjustified?
To return again to my original point: you stated that no one is "credibly threatening" the existence of Israel. I might dispute that, considering that Iran for instance has at the very least pursued the development of nuclear weapons, and missiles to deliver them, and expressed an intention to destroy Israel, and has allied itself and is offering financial and material support to Hezbollah.
But setting that and other possible existential threats aside, you still haven't answered my question. Must a nation be threatened with complete subjugation and annihilation before it may respond to attacks upon its territory and people?
Again, Japan never posed an existential threat to the United States. There was zero possibility of Japanese troops occupying Washington DC, New York City, or even San Francisco and Los Angeles, in 1941-1945. Even the Japanese military conceded this, its entire war plan was based on knocking out the US fleet at Pearl Harbor and then attempting a negotiated settlement on terms favorable to Japan.
So, given there was no "existential threat"--was the US response to Pearl Harbor unjustified?
Or my more recent example. Bin Laden never was close to posing an existential threat to the US. Was American action taken to kill him, conducted in violation of the territory of a sovereign nation--Pakistan--in which civilians were killed, was that action unjustified?
Third time I'm asking you these questions.
onandup
(558 posts)A country may be justified in military operations in self-defense even if the attacker does not pose a threat to its very existence. But that does not mean it is always justified, of course. That depends on the operation.
wnylib
(23,650 posts)of members of the terrorist organization that is attacking Israeli civilians?
I care about the innocent bystanders who were injured and the child who died, too. They were NOT the targets, though. That's what happens in war. Innocent people get injured and killed. But, by specifically targeting Hezbollah, Israel kept the civilian casualties to a minimum.
I'd prefer to see no war in the ME at all. No injuries, no deaths. But I also believe in a nation's right to defend itself against terrorists.
Beastly Boy
(10,607 posts)JackSabbath
(175 posts)...the pager was left accidentally in a child's room or on the couch where the dog was napping?😃 what's next? Maybe bring back land mines! Stupid idiots!
elias7
(4,153 posts)Hezbollah has 150,000 missles embedded amongst Southern Lebanese citizens pointed into the heart of Israel. But maybe a pager was left accidentally in a childs room? Are you joking?
Beastly Boy
(10,607 posts)Or let his puppy play with it?
I thought pagers are meant to be kept in the immediate vicinity of the user, or else they lose any practical meaning, no?
womanofthehills
(9,122 posts)Plus children and its being reported the Ukrainian ambassador to Lebanon was also injured.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)it was the Iranian Amb. who was injured, so what was an Iranian Amb. doing with a Hizabollah pager?
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)I'll bet a shiny nickel it goes unanswered
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)it's too much of an inconvenient truth.
notroot
(52 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-hezbollah-israel-exploding-pagers-8893a09816410959b6fe94aec124461b
Correcting false info is always the correct thing to do.
notroot
(52 posts)Moosepoop
(1,975 posts)Compromised server, installation of script with resulting multiple overloads and overheating/explosions of the batteries in the pagers.
This isn't verified and concrete, it's still at the "reports suggest" stage, but it does sound plausible to me.
LiberalArkie
(16,029 posts)I can't understand the rational behind a device changing where you can power it up by a battery you bought anywhere or being tied to charging it (every night).
Amishman
(5,680 posts)We're seeing videos of the devices going off with enough force to blow holes in a dresser, launch pieces across the room, and in general go off with great sudden force.
A lithium battery - even one intentionally ruptured or catastrophically shorted - is too slow of a reaction to cause that kind of explosive effect. Plus if it were some function of shorting the battery, I would expect there to be noticeable fire in the videos, which there is not.
My guess is there had to be some sort of true explosive inside the pagers.
ProfessorGAC
(68,412 posts)A lithium oxidation would be barely fast enough to qualify as a conflagration.
I'm not envisioning how a blast wave could be generated.
mikelewis
(4,174 posts)The battery case could be more rugged and the accelerated lithium gasses could create quite a bang. If it were an intentional thing... put a little chip in the battery that responds to the pager and boom. Instant distraction or even disabling... clever. Wouldn't kill you but could burn the shit out of you. Look at the vape cigarette dispenser that have been exploding... my guess, that's where they got the idea if Mossad did do this.
Or... less conspiratorial... they all just got some shitty batteries.
But here's the thing... who the fuck is still using pagers? Is Israel being attacked by the Flintstones?
Perhaps Hezbollah should watch the Wire.
Amishman
(5,680 posts)I'm not seeing any fire at all in the videos I've come across
mikelewis
(4,174 posts)It looks like a bad batch of batteries. I've bought a bunch of cheap ones from Aliexpress and that's what they look like when they explode...Them exploding all at the same time just means it was the same production run. I would hate to be that vendor right about now.
JoseBalow
(4,412 posts)Thousands of "shitty batteries" coincidentally belonging only to Hezbollah terrorists? That sounds like the conspiracy theory to me.
mikelewis
(4,174 posts)And it wouldn't be coincidence... it would be science. This is happening in more than just Hezbollah controlled areas, it's happening all over and unless you're suggesting Israel has also attacked Syria... maybe we should wait and see. Maybe you're right... who knows?
marybourg
(12,954 posts)Soon theyll have to drop back to carrier pigeons.
Mme. Defarge
(8,412 posts)for posting this.
rollin74
(2,061 posts)200 in critical condition
wow
HAB911
(9,236 posts)Investigate if cell phones can be compromised in the same manner
mikelewis
(4,174 posts)Lithium batteries are safe but when bad shit happens... especially overcharging, you have a real problem. They heat up so fast and can charge so quickly, it's deceptive... you got to be careful with them or they explode. Cell phone batteries are usually very, very safe but just like driving a car with an airbag... it's possible that air bag could pop open, causing you to lose control and kill 37 people on the freeway. It's just not likely.
HAB911
(9,236 posts)I'm sure we can do cell phones
mikelewis
(4,174 posts)And most certainly within what the Mossad can and would do if they thought of it... it doesn't mean they did. It also doesn't mean it was Israel. False flag operations happen all the time. Injuring a few of their own could be strategic.
It could also have been us or MI6 or Russian agents or Iran 'whatevers' or hell, Liechtenstein might be feeling all feisty. Remember the Archduke Ferdinand? No? Me either... apparently that dude getting whacked started WWI. You never know who's playing what game... especially in the Middle East. It's just so fucking hot... it makes you fucking crazy!
My point being... and this strictly comes from reading the Lord of the Rings so many times, You just never know in war. That's pretty much why I avoid them... they're so above my paygrade.
BrianTheEVGuy
(420 posts)Theoretically, they can do any device with a lithium ion battery. A bigger one in a phone or laptop would do much greater damage too.
There are a lot of terrorists who will be regressing to parchment and carrier pigeons after this glorious move.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)As for me, the fact that China makes so very much of our technology has always given me pause.
HAB911
(9,236 posts)there are a lot of things will happen we mortals never dreamed of
TheProle
(2,713 posts)Johnny2X2X
(21,053 posts)The dead and wounded include children.
This is against the rules of war.
EX500rider
(11,245 posts)Could you point out where that is?
Hezbolla is at war with Israel so Israel is at war with them.
So you think it's okay if they drop bombs on them to kill them but not pagers?
Which do you think would wound or kill more nearby civilians?
Johnny2X2X
(21,053 posts)Israel has lost 27 civilians to Hezbollah, each one a crime IMO. That's not OK to launch missiles at civilian or mostly civilian populations. It's not OK to give exploding pagers to people either. Both can be wrong and both can be war crimes.
EX500rider
(11,245 posts)A good rule for civilians might be don't take pages from terrorists and don't stand near them in case they are targeted
EX500rider
(11,245 posts)I highly doubt civilians have any need of a pager these days
TheKentuckian
(25,673 posts)Article of the Geneva Convention.
What rule are you referring to?
Beastly Boy
(10,607 posts)That question goes for each of your statements.
Mosby
(17,002 posts)They just took out Hezbos command structure.
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)and against an asymmetric opponent, making them question and distrust the routine items in their daily life turns the tables back against them.
Hezbollah must now consider how deep their communications have been compromised and has Israel inserted any other sabotaged items into their supply chain.
Israeli minister says time running out for diplomatic solution with Hezbollah in Lebanon
mikelewis
(4,174 posts)IF... and that is an If the size of say... a cow. Not an impossible If by any stretch but a pretty big If... If this was an attack by Israel then yes, it was absolutely brilliant. Completely disruptive and a wounded soldier is so much more effective than a dead one. My only contention is... I seriously doubt Hezbollah is outsourcing their pager technology to unknown vendors.
Here's the rub. Since Hezbollah is using pagers, it means someone provided them with that technology as it's almost impossible to jam or hack the code once intercepted. Ad hoc wifi networks and smoke signals aren't great alternatives to simply shouting. So... whoever provided that tech to Hezbollah also put in very rugged long lasting lithium batteries so they never have to be recharged... well not never but for a real long time. My guess... they over engineered the batteries and the pressure is just now breaking past the seals and causing a fire. It's not an attack... it's science.
JoseBalow
(4,412 posts)mikelewis
(4,174 posts)It could have been bad batteries... however, I just saw that all the pagers had been pinged repeatedly to set them off... so no... this was most certainly an orchestrated attack. And a pretty nasty one, you gotta hand it to em.
BrianTheEVGuy
(420 posts)The pagers all detonated a couple hours after a Hizbollah terror bombing attempt targeting an Israeli politician was disrupted.
PeaceWave
(599 posts)Johnny2X2X
(21,053 posts)You cannot target a civilian population for death and destruction like this.
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)no different from anyone else?
Johnny2X2X
(21,053 posts)Israel didn't know who had these pagers, they just targeted Hezbollah to have a lot of them.
If any country did that the the US while targeting a specific group here, our country would go to war.
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)At Israeli towns I would say they are already at war.
I recall not so long ago Hezbollah struck a soccer field killing twelve children. What I do not recall was that being called a war crime. Nor was much concern expressed over the children.
LexVegas
(6,354 posts)Johnny2X2X
(21,053 posts)A fraction of those killed or injured were Hezbollah.
former9thward
(33,095 posts)sarisataka
(20,334 posts)Although you may have seen some will make an exception if they are Jewish children
Johnny2X2X
(21,053 posts)If it were Jewish children I would be every bit as disgusted.
It is not OK to kill children, period. Israel made the decision to kill some children here because it would also kill some terorrists, that's the type of thing that makes this a mess and both sides have a responsiblity to protect the innocent.
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)I was asking if you have noticed how Jewish civilian deaths get much less attention or condemnation
Johnny2X2X
(21,053 posts)Hezbollah has killed 27 Israeli civilians with their illegal rocket attacks in this conflict. That's disgusting and deserves condemnation all 27 times. Israel has killed 150 Lebanese civilians in this current conflict, that is disgusting and deserves condemnation all 150 times.
Blowing up people's cellphones or pagers is a horrific new turn in war and cannot be seen as an acceptable form of warfare less we decide it's OK for terorrists to start blowing up our own phones in our own pockets or children's backpacks. This is an escalation we do not need.
elias7
(4,153 posts)If Hezbollah stopped shooting missiles at Israel tomorrow, Israel would be at peace with Lebanon. There is only one cause here, and that is Islamic militants such as Hezbollah and Hamas do not acknowledge the existence of Israel. They will only be satisfied when there is no state of Israel. I dont see why people in the west dont understand this.
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)nonexistent is another
It takes little observation of threads to notice there are far more who condemn "both sides" who show up when Israel does anything. The "both sides" condemnation is strangely absent when Israeli civilians are killed.
LexVegas
(6,354 posts)Johnny2X2X
(21,053 posts)But I can tell you distributing boxes of pagers to a population and then blowing them up is in fact a war crime as there is no reasonable assurance who is going to end up with those little bombs.
This was a horrific war crime that injured hundreds of innocent civlians, maybe thousands. This was barbaric and needs to be roundly condemned. Only a monster thinks it's OK to turn pagers into bombs. And this wasn't turn one pager into a bomb knowing who would have the pager, this was turning thousands of them into a bomb knowing full well innocent children would have some of them. This is sick, this is evil. Other evils do not justify this evil.
Coventina
(27,614 posts)Johnny2X2X
(21,053 posts)They are not freedom fighters. This attack targeting them was in fact a war crime though as many innocents were also killed and harmed. Children were killed in this attack. There was no way to know who would get thousands of these pagers, they just knew Hezbollah would have some of them. It's barbarism.
Coventina
(27,614 posts)Maybe terrorists shouldn't be hanging around children.
newdeal2
(581 posts)Even though there are very few details available about how this happened.
I suggest waiting for details to come out.
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)"injured hundreds of innocent civlians, maybe thousands."
Hekate
(93,551 posts)
about pagers being the communication device of choice for the terrorist group known as Hezbollah? That device being their choice would indicate that Hezbollah obtains them by themselves.
Now, if the Mossad did a Stuxnet operation
.
EX500rider
(11,245 posts)Or will they ramp up the civilian count to get the sympathy vote from gullible westerners and people who are easily enraged at anything Israel does?
A good lesson maybe don't take communication devices from terrorists.
Although I doubt many civilians have much need for a pager these days.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)You have those figures, because I and the rest of us would love to see if your claim is true.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)Not according to Hizbollah.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hezbollah-members-killed-many-injured-by-exploding-pagers-group-says/ar-AA1qIgOI?ocid=BingNewsSerp
Exploding pagers kill at least 9, including Hezbollah members; thousands wounded
Read it and weep.
Mosby
(17,002 posts)Nt.
BrianTheEVGuy
(420 posts)1) Hizbollah is already at war with Israel;
2) Its ironic how we are all supposed to be upset when Hizbollah members get their family and friends injured, yet theres zero outrage when they murder Israeli civilians in cold blood including a dozen children at a school.
I say, let Hizbollah and their family members burn for a while. It reminds them that their attacks will result in them paying a heavy price themselves.
It also encourages Lebanese people to distance themselves from the terrorist group, as proximity to a Hizbollah terrorist is dangerous for ones health.
Amishman
(5,680 posts)Relative to the handful of civilians harmed, I'd say this was an extremely precise and humane operation.
Seriously wounding 4000 members of Hezbollah - many of them higher up in the organization - probably saves 100x as many innocents in the long run compared to the number of innocents injured in this strike.
BrianTheEVGuy
(420 posts)The pager network targeted was the Hizbollah pager system.
NOBODY with a Hizbollah pager is a civilian.
mathematic
(1,466 posts)Conflating valid military targets like Hezbollah's communication network with the civilian population is propaganda.
newdeal2
(581 posts)And any spare VHS tapes.
Otto_Harper
(540 posts)Bonx
(2,143 posts)This should seriously undermine their abilities and confidence.
DJ Synikus Makisimus
(542 posts)This would appear to be a rapidly escalating story. I'm tracking at The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/sep/17/middle-east-crisis-live-netanyahu-expands-gaza-war-aims-blinken-heads-to-egypt
I'm really curious to know how Israel may have rigged pagers headed to market in neighboring Arab nations, and why they exploded today. I also wonder how many other countries may have received exploding pagers, and whether that would provide the motivation that could unify a disunited bunch of Israel's neighbors to attack Israel simultaneously.
mikelewis
(4,174 posts)This may look like a coincidence but I honestly think it's just bad batteries and this is significant because attack or not... I now know that the islamic world is using long lasting pagers to communicate. I didn't know that... I think that's actually clever. I don't believe it's anything more than faulty engineering but I could most certainly be wrong. Still, it's interesting to think about... I thought pagers were dead and gone... or just what doctors still used...
Mosby
(17,002 posts)mikelewis
(4,174 posts)There are seals that keep the elements from touching each other. If they touch, they short out. As the device is used, if the seals develop a ground, that ground will eat away at the seal and then... well boom. If the same seal was used and the same device was using it... presumably they were all left on constantly... then yeah... you have a bunch of time bombs.
Otto_Harper
(540 posts)all simultaneously detonate. If yo really understand the physics, then temperature and pressure exposure history of each battery would dictate its time of deflagration. Then the is the probability field which contains all of these devices.
That's why there are such things as product recalls. The early failures warn you of the impending wave about to happen. These all went off at the same moment. At best, some software or firmware accident. At worst, an intentional action.
Disaffected
(4,875 posts)the rapid series of detonations - the detonations would almost certainly be more spread out if a manufacturing defect was at fault.
As well, as pointed out by others here, lithium batteries do not typically "explode" when they fail, rather they smolder and/or burst into flame.
Mosby
(17,002 posts)According to the reports.
Do you have some inside info that the Washington Post doesn't?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/09/17/lebanon-pagers-exploding-hezbollah/
Otto_Harper
(540 posts)The simultaneous explosions were not caused by "Physics". They were caused by an intentional detonation event, controlled by an outside entity. A whole production run of anything will not simultaneously detonate, to within seconds, due to "Physics"
DJ Synikus Makisimus
(542 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 18, 2024, 02:43 AM - Edit history (1)
Enough sources are stating (and The NY Times cites an anonymous source) that the phones contained explosives that were simultaneously triggered somehow, and that they were prepared by some branch of the Israeli state. We don't know enough of the particulars yet, however.
If Hezbollah in general was the target, and Mossad, Shin Bet, Aman, or a more secret branch of Israeli intelligence thought the phones were all going to the Lebanese political party/militia; it would appear that, after about 3000 people injured, that at least some of those pagers found their way into the public marketplace. I expect casualty revisions over the next few days and both the dead and wounded totals to rise Hezbollah has announced that two of its men were killed. As of right now (23:00 MDT, 17 Sept.), two other deaths have been reported; the son of a Hezbollah MP and a little girl. That leaves four of the eight reported deaths as "unknown." Various sources report that the Iranian Ambassador to Lebanon was injured, though we don't know how seriously. The only other story about a wounded person I've seen reported was a guy shopping in a grocery store whose pager explosion was reportedly caught on store cameras. His political affiliation is unreported and no, we can't jump to conclusions.
Again, we need more solid data before we can understand enough of what happened to draw conclusions. That's really hard given the region and its politics and press, as well as the highly emotional biases of supporters and detractors of the hostile parties outside the region.
Mosby
(17,002 posts)Hezbo programmed them presumably, using encryption. Somewhere along the line the Israelis gained access to them.
DJ Synikus Makisimus
(542 posts)to have been the consumers for this product. We need more information before jumping to conclusions, though.
Beastly Boy
(10,607 posts)Or atleast they were intended to be
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hezbollah-official-exploded-pagers-were-a-new-brand-replaced-cellphones-at-nasrallahs-order/
DJ Synikus Makisimus
(542 posts)EX500rider
(11,245 posts)Why else will they have encrypted Hezbollah pagers
DJ Synikus Makisimus
(542 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 18, 2024, 02:08 AM - Edit history (1)
except there being lots of death, injury, destruction, deprivation, civilian casualties .. and misinformation. Getting to the specifics of the who, the what, the where, the when, and especially the why and the how, is difficult.
BannonsLiver
(17,472 posts)This is an interesting operation. And one that didn't involve the 2,000 bombs they've been complaining about. Gee, it's almost as if it's not about the method but more about Jews protecting themselves. Who woulda thunk it!
Shipwack
(2,287 posts)Seriously, though
why?
Im sure theres a reasonable explanation that my euro-centric mind wouldnt think of, and I am truly interested in the background of this.
mikelewis
(4,174 posts)Long lasting batteries... with two lithium batteries a pager could last for months. The pages go through when the towers come back online so it's not like you miss a call when the power goes out... which it does constantly... it's reliable and cheap and last forever... almost... I just never thought about it either.
Bonx
(2,143 posts)Bmoboy
(362 posts)Terrorists don't like to be tracked.
Didn't they find Osama by monitoring cell phones?
hack89
(39,179 posts)Send a cryptic one way message via pager and the recipient goes to his handy dandy printed list of codes to see what action is required of him.
BrianTheEVGuy
(420 posts)Turns out that the Hizbollah terrorists are far less enthusiastic about explosions and casualties when its happening in their own homes, workplaces and cars.
misanthrope
(7,909 posts)My only concern would be others in proximity in public space, although the surveillance video showed others very near the targets who appeared uninjured.
DJ Synikus Makisimus
(542 posts)I'm not familiar enough with religious and cultural holidays and other commemorations of the Levant to know. If it was indeed a terrorist attack, I don't think it's because it's International Country Music Day.
Bev54
(11,415 posts)TheRealNorth
(9,626 posts)I am reading about a lot of noncombatants being hurt in this, so it doesn't seem like it was a targeted, but that the IDF just blew up a bunch of pagers because they knew Hezbollah also used them.
So I don't know why the hell people here are cheering about indiscriminate attacks in Lebanon.
newdeal2
(581 posts)We have no real details about how this happened or the planning involved. Its such a crazy scenario that its better to wait for some facts than speculate based on whats being reported in the moment.
Coventina
(27,614 posts)He controls everything!
Just like Obama did, back in the day.....
mikelewis
(4,174 posts)I hear that Joe farted at Camp David and a wall in a Jericho garden fell over. Scared poor Mrs. Leibowitz half to death. True story.
What are you talking about?
EX500rider
(11,245 posts)Normal civilians will have cheap cell phones
tritsofme
(18,035 posts)sarisataka
(20,334 posts)Have to admit I didn't see that coming.
You may want to look up the meaning of indiscriminate. And it's antonym, targeted.
BannonsLiver
(17,472 posts)Hekate
(93,551 posts)Brother Buzz
(37,102 posts)Curious to learn where these pagers/components were manufactured
DJ Synikus Makisimus
(542 posts)It does have the look of Mossad overkill, but we need more evidence.
EX500rider
(11,245 posts)Brother Buzz
(37,102 posts)Oh, but to have been a fly on the wall when the Israelis convinced them to insert a little extra code into the chips.
nolabear
(42,681 posts)I can think of a whole lot of potential disasters here. Its fascinating but scary as hell.
Coventina
(27,614 posts)RussBLib
(9,490 posts)....I mean, being such a stable genius and all.
https://russblib.blogspot.com/
newdeal2
(581 posts)Abdul said no way. Trump said way.
mikelewis
(4,174 posts)According to reports, the phones were called before the explosion for some period of seconds to increase the chance that whoever received the call would pick it up and be maximally wounded.
Jerusalem Post
Yeah... if that turns out to be true then yeah, Israel probably did a dirty deed here... done dirt cheap.
TheKentuckian
(25,673 posts)Some of y'all are off the rails.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)Arne
(3,426 posts)spin out of control.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)Because that would mean any civilian here might be a meaningless number too. By the hundreds, and mostly women with children. And its fine, right? Who needs laws of war? Rules, laws, I mean honestly how quaint. We're ok with might makes right. We're the United States, so we'll be fine.
/End Rant.
Coventina
(27,614 posts)TIA
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)Enemy communications as a legitimate target knowing it will kill hundreds of civilians?
I stand by my statement. If it's permissible to kill hundreds of civilians, because they have the misfortune to be in close proximity of suspected (it's not like there's a trial or anything) terrorists, then we better hope there are no suspected Hezbollah members here.
I feel like you find this point as meaningless as the hundreds of people who died in Lebanon.
But to your question, I've always thought collateral punishment of civilians was against international law. And they knew the exploding pagers would kill civilians; it was not an accident so many civilians were killed.
Coventina
(27,614 posts)TIA
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)Who is reporting this?
Do you have links to this claim, and not from a Hizbollah source, but a legitimate source?
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)Are you asking if any civilians were actually killed, or how many?
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)You're claiming that many civilians were killed. please provide a legitimate source for this claim, and just who is providing these numbers.
I'll wait..............
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)I didn't think the deaths of many civilians was an actual question. Wasn't it in the article? I'll have to look.
But I don't think the number, or exact number of dead and injured matters as much as the idea that this action is somehow acceptable if it is true at all. That's my argument. I would rejoice with the rest of you if only terrorists were killed. I'm not comfortable with not worrying about the truth if it, laughing at people who have the nerve to question it. I'll gladly jump on the happy bandwagon if it turns out reports of civilian deaths were wrong.
Let's say it is true, that many innocent civilians were killed? What is your opinion on that?
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)but at this point, we don't know it it was Israel, who, so far, have not claimed responsibility.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)But I cannot agree that the deaths are on Hizbollah. Unless you mean Hizbollah planned and executed the attacks, but I don't think you do.
I am taking this to mean that, no matter who planned and executed the attacks with complete disregard of civilian casualties, it was a permissible act of war and can be blamed on the various holders of beepers themselves. And their terrorist organization.
I don't think we'd buy into that philosophy if it was used on us here. Maybe it's just a matter of time, who knows.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)It's perfectly legitimate and smart to disrupt an enemy's Command and Control system, which, BTW, includes going after the comms being used, as is in this case.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)No, I probably don't. I learned about the Geneva Convention and the reasons for it in the military, but it was just a course they gave us and wasn't my specialty.
Justifying the targeting of communications systems is one thing, and it's debatable. Killing the hundreds of civilians in close proximity to get it is not. And I don't see how you can change my mind.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)There is nothing debatable about this, going after an enemy's communications system is a legitimate target, full stop.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)Proving something is a legitimate target does not give permission to use any means or kill any civilians around it without regard, with good certainly many will be killed. Or do you think it does? I'm not sure.
Furthermore, this was emphatically NOT an attack on their communications devices. Let's just stop with that lie. Hacking their pagers, disabling them or simply setting them on fire would have "attacked their communications systems" without any need to kill anyone. They intended to kill. It was the purpose of them exploding.
So please, if we're going to discuss this, stop saying it was an attack on terrorist communications. It was not.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)You really do know nothing about warfare.
Keep digging.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)Marine Combat Engineer
What part of killing civilians who get in the way as policy works for you? Who they are and where they live? Or whose doing the killing?
Honestly, disregarding how unlawful it is to allow unaccountable murder, by calling it war? Dude, that's WHY we have rules of war.
I maintain that if it happened here, it would not be acceptable. So why are we okay with it happening in Lebanon?
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)Marine Combat Engineer
Oh, so you want to go that route?
Buh bye.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)Pointing with humor to your login as a reason I strongly disagree, because it sounds like you should surely know better than to be okay with killing civilians, I don't think you're all that insulted.
I think you don't have the words to say, Yes, it's okay to kill those civilians. Because that's all I'm getting.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)
that deserve respect
Just sayin
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)If calling attention to someone's self identification in a slightly chiding manner is disrespectful, I guess I'm sorry. But since when were vets so thin skinned? I'm not. I'm not name calling or attacking the messenger
I'm really looking for an answer. How is it okay to basically plan on civilian injuries when planning a military operation? It was not accidental. It was not unavoidable. So if it is claimed by Israel, or any other country, I am saying it was wrong.
I'm also wondering, is Israel officially at war with Lebanon? Maybe I just don't understand this. I guess anyone in the country is a legitimate target if they're at war. It's not like there are any rules about that.
Nope, you're right. I am definitely ignorant past believing.
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)Suggestion- your next post should be an apology to MCE for questioning his service. I provided overwatch of his M9 ACE in combat as he cleared a minefield. It wasn't until we "met" on DU that we discovered our connection. His vehicle was distinctive and so we were able to confirm our service together though not meeting face to face
Response to sarisataka (Reply #168)
MarineCombatEngineer This message was self-deleted by its author.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)It's hard to follow this thread, but I think this was directed at me? I'll work up to a reply to CME. I'm truly trying to discuss the tactics. No, I don't question his service. I figured there was some heavy duty action in his background. I was Air Force, but marines were great, good to work with and so well trained. Looking at you MCE. I'm sure my 10+ years stateside does not compare with either of you. I don't think my USTanscom coin would win any drinks with you all.
But I have an appreciation of what military action means, and I don't see how these actions are acceptable.
I have to get. I forgot to say thanks!
Hekate
(93,551 posts)
never learned what is and is not a legitimate target in time of war? Im sure Im putting that badly Im not asking for national secrets or anything, but the Air Force is military, and loss of life is expected sooner or later. Its part of the trade, so to speak unpleasant, but a fact.
People who are terrorists (1) dont care who the hell they kill or maim see 10-7-2023, and also 9-11-2001. After 9-11 my Massachusetts sisters children returned to school to discover that among their schoolmates there were two grandmas who had died when their airplanes hit the Twin Towers and of course all the people in themTwin Towers were civilians. (2) Terrorists are a danger to all who associate with them, and it just fuels them for further terrorism. (3) They dont wear uniforms and they hide in the civilian population, and they do this deliberately. (4) There is no conceivable way to target only terrorists.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)For war criminals, because it turns out the world did not agree it was okay to literally do anything you want to the enemy. Especially the noncombatants. There are rules for prisoners. There are rules of combat. There are rules against collateral damage as punishment directed at civilians.
There are reasons for those rules and laws. They weren't considered quiant or not applicable to the future. And people like me just bright enough to notice them being run over, like its rude to even ask. I'm not sure the rules are more permissive if it's an undeclared war. Or an unclaimed action by who knows who.
Our approach to war is pretty much the opposite of what terrorists think is permissible. Just look at it that way.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)but I would definitely buy you a drink, as would sarisataka and all other vets here for your service to our country.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)It's easy to wade into these issues and quickly find myself out of my depth. I didn't mean to cause hard feelings or make incorrect assumptions. I'll try harder from now on. I think you're both knowlegable people.
I know there is sharp disagreement about what is right and wrong in this conflict. And I'm not backing down from disagreeing with the tactics. But you've been much closer to it irl than I have, and probably have stronger feelings. No disrespect. I would too.
Thank you for your gracious reply. It's a class act that I'm not surprised to see from a Marine, not at all. Thank you for your service as well.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)and I strongly suspect that we agree with more than we disagree on other issues.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)We probably do, and I think it's very big of you to say so. If the leaders of our world were more like you, it would be a better place. Class act.
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)such systems are legitimate targets.
Why are you claiming death tolls 20x greater than reported and that all of them are civilians?
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)Hmmm, makes one wonder just what we got here.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)the more I wonder myself.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)I am not sure why anyone needs to be rude. That's what I'm wondering about. Honestly it's like you do not want a real discussion. I am not being insulting.
I'm saying writing off civilians as policy anywhere in the world just because they're in the way is wrong. It's not cool or smart or a good way to operate no matter who did it, but especially if it was a government sanctioned action. That is all.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)Being okay with killing some who cares what number of civilians to supposedly take out some beepers, it sounds extreme. One, It wasn't necessary. Two, It was meant to kill, assassination using beepers. And Three Arguing it was just an attack on communication devices and not intentionally lethal just isn't honest. I'm sorry but it's not.
I am out of time to continue. If I see anything later that actually confronts what happened, instead of disputing any question of why it's wrong and ridiculing the very idea it should be a question, I'll get back.
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)which has nothing to do with hypotheticals or confronting what happened. The death toll is current nine with one being an innocent victim. There are not counts as to how many injured may be civilians but Hezbollah is saying at least the majority are their members.
I will thank you to not put words in my mouth about what I said is OK. I am disputing incorrect information.
One- it wasn't necessary but is much better than sending bombs and missiles
Two- it was meant to kill Hezbollah members, i.e. terrorists
Three- claiming something that was not said. The attack did not kill hundreds of civilians, that was your claim and no it isn't honest
Cha
(302,727 posts)question.
TY
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)First this was an argument about attacking the legitimate target of Hizbollah communications systems. Next we have agreed it was an attack meant to injure or kill.
I'm not putting words in your mouth, I certainly wasn't trying to, I'm following the logical conclusion. If we are okay with this action, then we are okay with killing civilians anywhere because terrorism. That's my problem with this.
Now I believe you are disputing how many civilians were killed and injured? It makes me want to ask, what number would you like? If the number of dead and injured civilians can be argued about, a smaller number of them might mean...what? Just a few. Opps? It's still not okay to me.
One Who said ANYTHING about bombs being an option? It's not in the discussion to bomb the beepers. Unless this is a hot war now, which I hope it's not. It wasn't necessary to kill anyone to take out the beepers, and that's my point. It was reckless risk of life, no matter how many terrorists it killed.
Two It was meant to kill terrorists and anyone unfortunate enough to be in close proximity. Like in a grocery store. No one thought blowing up all those beepers simultaneously would only hurt terrorists when they planned it.
Three Hundreds of civilian casualties were reported on the news, I'm sorry if I said hundreds of deaths incorrectly. I don't think the number makes a lot of difference though, and I was not trying to be dishonest.
Israeli
(4,249 posts)Really ?
So who was flying their flags and those of Hamas at all these demonstrations ??
Welcome to DU BTW .
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)Of those flag waving terrorists? Is everyone here just outta luck if they get too close to the protest? Because that's what it means to be okay with blowing up a bunch of pagers and killing people in close proximity
I don't see how it isn't a blank check for violence on anybody to look at it that way.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)
Communications systems are absolutely a legitimate target. Show us where that is not so in time of war. Which, by the way, this is for the Middle East.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)I might have missed it, but I didn't think they were at war. They, who is at war? Until someone claims responsibility, it's hard to say Lebanon is an acceptable target of any war, isn't it?
If we assume it's Israel, i do not agree their closely targeted operation was acceptable. And no, reckless disregard for innocent noncombatant civilians is not permissible even in war time. Valid targets and collateral damage are a fact, but even in war time it's a consideration, and intentional killings can be prosecuted.
elias7
(4,153 posts)Thousands of people living in northern Israel are displaced from their homes from the bombings. Just because its not in the news, doesnt mean Israel isnt being attacked on all sides. as usual.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)FullySupportDems
(124 posts)After thinking about it.
So I wish I hadn't assumed the explosions were larger and killed hundreds of innocent people. I think in my mind I was conflating this action with others against Hsmmas, which do have high civilian casualties. This wasn't the same, and a lot of my statements don't seem as applicable. I'm not deliberately obtuse, I am merely occasionally obtuse, and always in public. Eyes aren't great either.
I'm still not happy with a war on terrorism like this. Kill lists and execution. It seems lawless, and I know less about law. I can see it was overwhelmingly Hezbollah who was harmed with beepers, but I still think they could have rigged them to merely disable them.
For the record I dearly hope all the attacks on and by Israel can stop and all the displaced people can go home in peace.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)Ace Rothstein
(3,271 posts)You love to see it.
Arne
(3,426 posts)They are usually close enough to a battery to cause damage.
One is a Tantalum capacitor and the other is a switching
MOSFET pair.
I've seen these go off with extreme force, and if in the
close proximity to Lithium may chain react.
Would be something very strange.
JackSabbath
(175 posts)Anyone in support of this can go straight to he'll.
Coventina
(27,614 posts)What a ridiculous comparison.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)taking out terrorists.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)But it isn't the dead terrorists anyone on here is concerned with. It's the tactics and the death of innocent people I'm condemning. I think you know that.
And I have to point out that, yes, if Hezbollah sent members here, any one of us could be legitimately killed if we take the wrong bus? Ride the wrong elevator? Have the wrong discussion about it in an online forum?
I think these actions are only acceptable here because they aren't happening here. I assume.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)America, btw, has its own terrorists. Just ask the people of Springfield about JD Vance and the Proud Boys.
We are not as ignorant here at DU as you seem to think.
FullySupportDems
(124 posts)Deliberately or otherwise.
Yes, we have our own terrorists here. I'm not sure how that relates to killing civilians in Lebanon by blowing up the pagers of terrorists.
I don't think you are ignorant, or DU in general. But some people have trouble discussing a legitimate dissenting opinion about this.
I'm saying, loudly, that it is not right to approve of and celebrate killing terrorists if civilians are killed as well, knowing it was expected civilians would be harmed. That's my point. I've tried hard to stick to it. I'd like people to think about how awful it would be, if it happened here. Walk down the wrong street, shop in the wrong store, and if you're too close to a terrorist your life is forfeited? Are we really okay with that kind of warfare anywhere, from any nation? It's the worse slippery slope I ever heard of.
But, so far, no one has explained how this tactic is good or legal, by whoever did it. All I hear is that I don't understand. I think it's more that I don't agree.
BannonsLiver
(17,472 posts)sarisataka
(20,334 posts)notroot
(52 posts)I'm dancing on the metaphorical graves of Hezbollah terrorists today.
It's a good day.
Really looking forward to "he'll"!
asm128
(195 posts)People aren't even trying to hide their Islamaphobia any more, are they?
Blocking any idiots that celebrate this
Hekate
(93,551 posts)We, by the way, are not Islamophobic, just capable of distinguishing between the average Muslim and rabid jihadists.
notroot
(52 posts)Hamas and Hezbollah are already using them as human shields. I guess that means anyone can use them to deflect blame from Hamas and their allies in promoting Islamic extremism and theocracy -- Hezbollah and Iran.
Hamas and Hezbollah can never be attacked, because they surround themselves with innocents at all times, as a deliberate, publicized strategy to inflict moral harm on their enemies when they are attacked in response for their own terrorist atrocities.
It's double-standards all the way down.
War is hell.
Hekate
(93,551 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 17, 2024, 04:01 PM - Edit history (1)
This is going to disrupt Hizbollah's entire Command and Control system.
Whom ever is responsible for this, kudos for a brilliant operation.
Israeli
(4,249 posts)it was overheating batteries
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)according to one of the posters here.
RandySF
(66,508 posts)womanofthehills
(9,122 posts)And children
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)Because there are lots of posts with false information today.
Also we have seen there are doctors, nurses, teachers etc that are also active members of terrorist organizations. Their occupations have not prevented them from actively participating in crimes against Israeli civilians.
notroot
(52 posts)Just a crazy thought.
Disturbing how many knee-jerk reactions are "but the poor terrorist-adjacent [insert something pulled straight outta my ass]"!
Hekate
(93,551 posts)Said terrorist would have to be transported to the ER in a wounded condition, prior to which point the pager would have already blown up and it would not blow up a second time.
So the puppies would be safe.
Coventina
(27,614 posts)What are they doing with pagers purchased by terrorists?
Kaleva
(37,612 posts)I think of these things so you don't have to .
underpants
(185,287 posts)Mosby
(17,002 posts)According to Sky News Arabic, Mossad placed 20 grams of PETN explosives into each device. PETN is sensitive to heat and friction, and Israel detonated it by raising the temperature of the battery to explode it.
Link to tweet
Israel used some sort of script to overload the battery and make it heat up. The script was activated by a pager notification.
Eta - 20 grams is about 3/4 of an ounce.
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)it was a brilliant op.
Jack Valentino
(436 posts)and where you gonna find a pay phone to call someone back?? LOL
Calculating
(2,993 posts)I'm not pro Palestine or anything, but this was downright dirty and indiscriminate. Rigging consumer electronics with bombs and then just blowing them all with no idea how many civilians will get hurt? What if these terrorists were out in public, with kids, on a plane, etc?
MarineCombatEngineer
(13,729 posts)Easy peasy.
Hizbollah brought this upon themselves, and just what war wasn't downright dirty and indiscriminate?
Coventina
(27,614 posts)So if they had them around their kids, well, that's on them.
sarisataka
(20,334 posts)Also does the recipient of a message have to call anyone. A fairly simply numeric code system can relay instructions to a person with a pager, no two-way communication needed.
Jack Valentino
(436 posts)Bad Thoughts
(2,604 posts)A sincere boycott would have prevent the greatest dick move in history.
Tarc
(10,532 posts)Good job!