Marijuana Can Be Harmful To Your Health
Last edited Sat Oct 5, 2024, 09:05 AM - Edit history (1)
As America’s Marijuana Use Grows, So Do the Harms
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/04/us/cannabis-marijuana-risks-addiction.html?unlocked_article_code=1.P04.9LJf.AivlZpARCzws&smid=url-share
DISCLAIMER: My intention for posting this is not to return to "no marijuana". It's to point out that it's not safe for everyone, that it's not well studied, that it's potency is not well regulated, and a lot of these issues have to be addressed "after the fact". We basically put something on the market before all of the studies were done, and every once in a while, someone gets VERY sick. If you think about the drug advertisements on TV, they have to list the side effects and risks. No one does that with marijuana. I think that's a problem.
The NYT writes one-two sentence paragraphs, so you won't get the gist of the article if I post four. So I am taking some liberties to paraphrase the article into a few bullet points.
- due to the current government classification of marijuana, its effects and risks are not being studied, and doctors are unable to classify cannabis related illnesses. As a result, there's a lot of misdiagnosis, and people don't realize that cannabis is making them sick.
- due to lack of regulation in most states, there is no maximum potency that can be sold.
- one of the illnesses caused by marijuana use is cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome, a condition caused by heavy cannabis use and marked by nausea, vomiting and pain. It can lead to extreme dehydration, seizures, kidney failure and cardiac arrest. In rare cases, it has caused deaths.
- many people are using marijuana to manage mental health issues like anxiety and depression; however, for a very small percentage of people, it can cause temporary psychosis (cannabis-induced temporary psychosis)and is increasingly associated with the development of chronic psychotic disorders.
-- almost all of the illnesses reported in the article are happening to ***heavy*** users. Starting at 20 times a month, and sometimes several times a day.
But with more people consuming more potent cannabis more often, a growing number, mostly chronic users, are enduring serious health consequences.
While the drug can assist the endocannabinoid system, alleviate some symptoms of disease and otherwise make people feel good, regular heavy doses of it can also throw the system off balance. People must continue escalating their use to get the same effect. And quitting can cause anxiety, depression and other signs of withdrawal.
“Cannabis should not have a free pass as something that is safe because it’s legal — or safe because it’s natural — because actually it clearly causes harm in a number of my patients,
= new reply since forum marked as read
I would love a case study or two to corroborate their story, you know?
Thanks for posting. 
Bipolarity, depression, etc. I have a friend who CANNOT use THC in anything because the 2 times she did smoke what she called "ditch weed". she has had psychotic breaks. I use FECO everyday to maintain my cancer free situationship, ( ). Trust me, I don't smoke it. I ingest the concentrated extract. The people who have the same issue that K.E. does can't even THINK about using what I do, which is a gram a day right before bed & I use medical grade Indicas. She just took 5 puffs off of the joint. She ended up in a hospital for observation for 2 days.
Last edited Sat Oct 5, 2024, 02:47 AM - Edit history (3)
As you correctly said too much of anything is bad.
That said, I love my marijuana..helped me kick alcohol. The worst effects I have had from it are tied to societal paranoia over its use.
Whatever..I don’t get into this.
I am a scientist and therefore never bullish about anything, but with MJ societal paranoia has typically been pegged at the other extreme imho.
It is a given that whenever a product becomes profitable, wild claims will be floated by the advertising industry about its benefits. Adults have to learn how to make calls for themselves.
But while I have actually been affected by attitudes tied to the bullshit drug war, marijuana itself never bothered me. Has it been beneficial? I am partial to it and think so. Otoh being a scientist, I moderate my enthusiasm wrt any direct claims like that. But I certainly do dismiss a lot of the completely bs “concern”.
Addiction, mental health..these are some of the most complex problems in society. Looking for simplistic scapegoats is stupid. Also talk about warped priorities 
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The one thing I am cautious about wrt mj has to do with its effects on the heart. Any psychoactive substance has to be used with caution. But there is too much Reefer Madness paranoia in society.
Potheads don’t have to be dysfunctional, lazy, stupid, paranoid people. However, as I know from personal experience, if a system wants to make that a self fulfilling prophecy (eschewing common sense) it is easy enough.
Oh well..haters gonna hate 
(I don’t actually smoke it though and one drawback of many studies is they don’t separate out the negative effects of smoking versus other forms of ingestion anywhere near enough). I am pretty sure I will be using mj for the rest of my life…
Last edited Thu Oct 24, 2024, 03:11 AM - Edit history (32)
Warning: overly long post.I definitely find it easy to stop and never remember its existence during those times.
I had an experience 13 years ago with an institution which as far as I could tell basically buys into the drug war (except probably for wealthy Si Valley types).
The jerks seemed to think I had a distorted relationship with reality because I disliked the institution. It set me back a lot.
I concluded from the way I was handled that, in their book at least, only a mental illness could explain a distrust and dislike of the institution. I disliked the place because it was annoying as all hell. I distrusted it because it came off as both meretricious and cluelessly pompous. Not surprising in an institution with many ties to Si Valley.
By contrast I genuinely liked and respected the institution I worked at just before that..a grounded but cool school..I was also fond of my mentor/lab. I still remember my time there with affection.
Anyway at this place, while my direct mentor was cool, as a whole the institution angered me and apparently that to them constitutes a mental issue. Obviously this is my side rather than an unbiased, objective take on reality. However, I still think they were way more unreasonable than I was.
Once they found that I had MJ in my system they behaved like even bigger idiots. They seemed to conclude that I was psychotic
. I was so taken aback I didn’t know how to react.
Fortunately they had me see a shrink/therapist unaffiliated with the institution, both of whom turned out to be professional and cool. That was, in fairness, one of the few things they got right. (Another thing they got right was a very decent counsellor).
Most doctors are cool. No healthcare professional can give you a blank check wrt habits that are still in a grey area societally (which MJ is). However, good doctors and scientists rarely resort to scripts in my experience. I also usually try to spare my healthcare providers details of my private habits. It is not fair to them since it puts them in a bind any which way. Besides, I know I can figure stuff out quite safely for myself.
Anyway the shrink and therapist both seemed to recognise that I was a basically rational person in a difficult situation. They treated me with respect which was nice.
After that I was off MJ for 8 years starting from 2014.
And then two years ago I lost my mom. I was sober, but it was rock bottom emotionally. Around then I got an MJ presc and well long story short, I have become the laid back stoner I was 13 years ago and quite functional. I was always a little short tempered-the only mental issue I will concede to having
. And that is not a personality disorder. It is just a short temper.
It is one thing to destigmatize mental illness. It is another to assume that annoyed people who show up at your hospital unwillingly are psychotic.
I suspect my mentor just wanted them to guide me a little since I clearly and vociferously disliked the place. He was also in a difficult position as a young scientist with a family. He did the best he could.
But instead they appeared to jump to the conclusion that I had a major mental illness and used the MJ in my system as an excuse.
Ironic since jtc is a sign of psychosis isn’t it
;-/..maybe collectively the school had psychosis?
Most people have some issues - I for one confess to a short temper that gets worse when frustrated. That can also land you in a straitjacket if you are working in a rather authoritarian institution.
But there exist a large number of essentially well adjusted adults with quirks/idiosyncrasies. Unless a model society must only have “perfect” Stepford people (presumably modeled on people those pompous pills consider normal) or the “mentally ill”, they should expect to get pushback when they attack someone’s mental fitness in a dispute. It comes off as a lame attempt to discredit a person who takes a dislike to your institution rather than as a legitimate concern around safety or mental health.
Anyway that is how I saw it and finally I do back my own pov. I don’t like the overused and somewhat histrionic term “gaslighting”, but if such a thing exists irl, that hospital came pretty damn close.
Again de stigmatisation of conversations around mental health are not a license to get away with: 1) labelling people seriously ill based on insufficient data (people who coincidentally also clearly dislike and distrust your institution), 2) exploit access to details like MJ use/emails/webuse/work and life history to bolster that case and 3) use that to force lousy zombifying medications (Abilify/Seroquel 🤮 ). I tossed those medications in the trash within days. Never regretted it. The shrink I mentioned earlier also thought those prescriptions made no sense. He was a cool person.
But I suppose forcing a bogus history of psychosis does come in handy if you are worried about being sued. They need not have worried on that head. That sort of thing is not really my bag (even assuming one could win, which seems unlikely). Such a waste of time.
Anyway, the only real “winning” I am interested in is being privately as functional a member of society as I can be in spite of the very real damage that institution’s callous (or maybe a better word is clueless?) mismanagement did.
I have posted about some of this here before and then deleted it feeling embarrassed about sharing. Now I am saying this because I find some of this panic over relaxing norms regarding MJ that objectionable. I could well be one of those people fraudulently categorised as having had a psychotic break due to MJ. What complete nonsense.
My posts here are if anything a record of the positive effects of MJ on my one area of concern - my anger. I was angry for years after that experience.
Anger is not a very useful emotion except when regulated. It affects your cognition badly.. it can make you seem incoherent.
For instance, back in 2020 and hell even earlier this year I posted angry rants about that institution.
I wouldn’t have a psychotic break if I went off MJ, but it definitely helps me suffer fools better.
Around April this year I finally started to really feel like my old self again. And well here I am
.
I choose to be on MJ because I find the benefits outweigh ill effects.
I experiment with it to figure out how to optimize any cognitive benefits. I don’t really like to talk about it because it is very much a dirty ie DIY experiment. I’ll leave it at this: so far being on MJ is working out well for my brain. I keep rough records of my use, diet, exercise and work. I also monitor my physical health (blood tests; kidney & liver function tests etc.)
Normally I would be ashamed to admit to such things as they sound like the histrionics of an Si Valley tech bro (that ass Bryan Johnson comes to mind ;-/ ). But how else can one track stuff or experiment with what is best for your work and health?
I find it most beneficial when I use it with breaks in between: several weeks off; then a couple of weeks on. Daily use only works for me at a low dose..low enough to be unnoticeable. YMMV. Very heavy use is probably not a good idea and smoking just about anything is a bad idea.
Two things I pay attention to are heart rate and bp. Those are affected by MJ and have to be monitored. Harm reduction is key when exploring any potential benefits.
I wouldn’t bring any of this up except that this article really grated on me. The NYT I have noticed has a personality remarkably similar to that institution’s: smug, preachy, self-satisfied and above all clueless.
They want to dismiss what is a common sense reality for many average people who quietly use MJ which is that it is encounters with the
straitjackets (a proxy for law enforcement really) which fuels some of the dysfunction and paranoia. Another poster pointed that out downthread.
A completely unwanted and unnecessary “intervention” can also actually do more harm.
You are not wrong about the test re addiction being “can you take weeks off?”. I have never had a problem with taking weeks off from any of the things I have experience with (nootropics, MJ and alcohol). Now I pretty much only use MJ save for the rare glass of wine.
Benzodiazepenes are the one other class of medication I have tried for sleep issues and that is a class of medication I avoid. In general sleep meds are scary and addictive in my book.
Nootropics are also definitely not for the middle aged..physical health issues and chronic sleep disruption. I found nootropics useful at a few points in my life, but they are definitely not a long term solution for anything.
Besides neither alcohol nor nootropics help with my temper.
That is my few cents on addiction.
I never have issues giving up stuff, but I do think coercive systems anger people and drive them to self-destructive behaviours.
I like to divide my life up into entirely sober periods punctuated with some MJ use done while aiming to reduce harm and maximise benefits.
I don’t really like to share these things, but there is so much nonsense out there about addiction that I did want to say this. I have mixed feelings about doing so, but I am not posting under my own name.
I would not voluntarily associate my actual identity with anything but the kinds of dull, dry, impersonal scientific journals I have published in. I don’t get social media in that sense. But since I have posted here for 18 years, I hope that even as a handle I have some credibility like other long time posters.
As for that institution, I at least have finally forgiven them. Holding grudges is bad for one’s own peace of mind ;-/. However, I absolutely maintain that they are deeply dishonest, pompous, pretentious, self important, hypocritical prigs
.
Besides I cannot really attack them seriously without it being an indirect attack on my old mentor and that is never my intention - he was cool.
The reason for this diatribe is that it is an influential school at the end of the day and it annoys me to see jerks from there drivel on in the pages of The Atlantic etc about drug policy. Wtf? I saw that one-flew-over-the-cuckoo’s-nest hell they call their psychiatric hospital. They can take an upset employee and cast them as a nutcase. They are not people who should be commenting on this topic.
It is an institution filled with people working under a lot of pressure. And the way they are run would drive anyone but a Stepford employee to drink and or drugs. How can anyone be this inept at understanding the stresses of modern life that might make someone turn to alcohol/drugs while apparently being “concerned” about addiction.
A slightly more self-aware employer would get that their own douchey, clueless, nosy, dead-eyed, dismissive, moralizing and heavy handed ways would fuel addiction rather than functionality.
Anyway in conclusion, after some 30 edits, I am finally done editing this post. I found it a cathartic exercise. It gave me some much needed closure wrt a difficult 13 year long period in my life.
Btw there are several perfectly respectable studies on the benefits of marijuana (yes many are based on animal models or have other caveats, but they exist).
Eg:
https://www.salk.edu/news-release/active-ingredient-in-cannabis-protects-aging-brain-cells/
This is why I am interested in it.
Sorry about the logorrhoea. I was trying to address several points about harm reduction and mental health in one post and also succumbed to bitching about that institution for one last time
.
Here is to hoping for a better future
. I do plan to reign in my temper tightly going forward. It is easier as you get older.
One final point: these are not just my views. The school I referred to as cool routinely shows up on lists of the best places to work in. Whereas the institution I am slamming is widely disliked. So maybe I was a relatively dispassionate observer albeit a stoner…
Much later edit: today I saw yet another truly awful oped in the WaPo by a person with an anti-weed obsession called Leana S Wen (a doctor who also apparently irked Planned Parenhood with her conservative ways:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/us/politics/planned-parenthood-wen.html
She would have fit right in at that hellhole I worked at.)
It made me think of how powerful institutions like my former employer essentially manufacture false narratives on mental illness by attacking the credibility of people who disagree with their methods. Btw it is an institution in bed with powerful surveillance capitalists like Google. It is also kinda known for its misogyny. It reminded of this truly excellent article on the topic of mental health in The Conversation from 2018. It says everything I have to say, but far better:
https://theconversation.com/how-neoliberalism-is-damaging-your-mental-health-90565
Of all the problems society is dealing with, this is such a fucking low priority unless you get funding for anti-marijuana bullshit. Get a real job seriously if peddling Reefer Madness is your “job”. I cannot believe someone pays people to put out these hysterical, fear-mongering anti-MJ opeds. Most of which don’t even separate the effects of smoking from the effects of weed itself. Here - I am posting this freely and it is net more useful to society I bet than that Reefer Madness crap. No one will ever read this except me, but still it feels good to pushback against some of this noise. That is why I keep this journal. As a record of pushback against Reefer Madness if it could serve that purpose. It is really horrible what the panic over MJ does to human life.
There will always be some people who overdo it with any damn thing. That is not a reason to safety proof the world for everyone by bringing back racist and sexist policing/coercive psychiatry. In my case the knee jerk assumption of psychosis was both bigoted and wrong. That treatment however did make me feel actually ill.
Final Edit: And it was the kind of hellish workplace that tries to both normalise this kind of work culture while hedging bets with the sort of feeble, bogus Facebook Oversight Board style bullshit “counter-opinion”:
https://newrepublic.com/article/178268/surveillance-changing-intimate-relationships
https://www.businessinsider.in/tech/news/silicon-valleys-open-offices-are-probably-over-thanks-to-the-coronavirus-but-they-were-always-bad-for-employees-anyway/articleshow/77446501.cms
Ultimately the place was bad for work, health and decency. Weed had nothing to do with it but got the blame for my burning out thanks to the worst employer (the institution that is) I have ever seen. An almost comically nightmarish hell. I am glad I have survived the experience and on weed at that.
It does something weird to my blood pressure.
Thanks for the heads up though. Pun intended.
❤️
It posted itself twice!
I'll have to try everyone's preferred weed.
Grab some Doritos on the way over. 
As for the NYT, they should chill out and grab an edible..pompous, self serious pills 
.
They really need to toke 
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with Keith pretty well after it's all over for all of you guys.
but the current stuff then was WAY too potent for me. Made me feel like a zombie. Today's hybrid stuff I hear is a LOT more potent even.
Sativa on the other hand? Made me happy, friendly, silly, and listening to music and during intimate moments felt awesome.
Some time ago someone gave me some gummies that were totally legal (I live in a shit red state where weed is not legal). Well mr badass here ate an entire gummy and was high(like he's never been) for 10 hours. 
Last edited Sun Oct 6, 2024, 10:06 PM - Edit history (1)
I agree with all your posts in this thread.
I don’t have more time to post since Monday beckons and stoners especially gotta work to counter inane stereotypes!
But I do think some of the posters up thread are either being disingenuous or failing to get what some of us are saying.
No rational person would say that you should be stoned day in and day out or that people with mental disorders like bipolar disorder etc may not become worse due to MJ (as well as alcohol).
The point is that in the twilight of prohibition and a potential end to a particularly pointless and vicious drug war (given that alcohol is legal) that has disproportionately affected black and poor Americans, trotting out stuff like this is groan inducing.
It does make one worry about a return to the pre legalization hellscape. Thankfully I live someplace cool now where I don’t get any shit about it.
No one is talking about criminalising alcohol because it is that much the status quo.
However many mental patients abuse it or drunker drivers kill people no one is seriously going to criminalize alcohol. And if alcohol is legal, it is nonsensical to say that MJ (which unlike alcohol has at least some utility) should produce this level of “concern”. Or the next chestnut that “how many of those evils can a society bear?” Bs..society is full of ills that are never addressed at all and many of those are ignored by dinosaurs like the NYT.
The reason for the passionate pushback from many of us is because the drug war and its ally, a type of noxious “concern”, has been that nightmarish.
There will always be people who misuse any damn thing and alcohol, MJ and junk food certainly have a much higher potential of abuse than say..prune juice .
But it is high time (pun unintended ;-/) to be more rational about MJ and to understand it without the constant finger-wagging and pompous preaching.
We get it. The NYT (a tiresome, irritating and frivolous paper that places stories about hair extensions and fine dining next to articles about the havoc caused by climate change..seriously do they ever look at the layout of their paper?) is a hoary dinosaur that doesn’t.
Normally I wouldn’t do it, but the NYT does make me go “okay dinosaur. Thanks for the lecture. Now where’s my weed?”
It is not surprising that the preachiest people in the room are usually the ones that make me want to reach out for an edible .
Thanks for defending Mary Jane in this thread as do I every day 
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I do agree it needs more scientific study and I would volunteer for those as long as no preachy and pompous anti was involved. I don’t need that kind of “balance”. Being neutral or open minded is fine. Pretending to not have a bias is bs.
