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teran

(58 posts)
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 01:09 PM Oct 2024

Kamala's winning, and it's not close

Jason Stanford clearly articulates - with references and data - what I have been thinking, feeling and trying to articulate to people for weeks. I can't predict the future, but I trust my gut a helluva lot more than Nate Silver's.
This is a long read, but so very worth your time. Read it, save it, and read it again next time you start getting nervous.
https://open.substack.com/pub/jasonstanford/p/kamalas-winning-and-its-not-close?r=n8oyh&utm_medium=ios

71 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Kamala's winning, and it's not close (Original Post) teran Oct 2024 OP
When the Constitution is amended to eliminate the EC... J_William_Ryan Oct 2024 #1
There hasn't been a republican elected to President since 1988 with the majority of the vote. Botany Oct 2024 #15
Respectfully, four things. Get rid of Citizens United. mjvpi Oct 2024 #22
A friend used to work in the editorial dept. of the Greensburg Tribune-Review FreeForm73 Oct 2024 #33
I live in Montana. Anytime that I engage a MAGA, I always start with getting money out of politics. mjvpi Oct 2024 #66
Expand the Supreme Court. rubbersole Oct 2024 #56
I'd put DC and Puerto Rico statehood in the mix mjvpi Oct 2024 #64
IMHO Citizens United should go first Tweedy Oct 2024 #57
George W. Bush pulled it off in 2004 Gore1FL Oct 2024 #24
That was the last time. They've not come anywhere close since. paleotn Oct 2024 #27
"Trump got a lower % of the vote in 16 and 20 than Romney got in 12." Polybius Oct 2024 #37
In % point variance between winner and loser, yes. In %'s of the total vote, no. paleotn Oct 2024 #61
Combined Third Parties were really strong in 2016, combining for 5.7% of the vote (the most since 1996) Polybius Oct 2024 #69
And yet here we are COL Mustard Oct 2024 #53
w wouldn't have been in the 2004 election if not for the cheating in the 2000 election and I would Botany Oct 2024 #49
That was highly debatable because of the shenanigans in Ohio and Florida. n/t valleyrogue Oct 2024 #55
Q: Were those results verified? A: No. They couldn't be. Sparkly Oct 2024 #63
I'm going with what is recognized in the history books. nt Gore1FL Oct 2024 #67
Botany .................. Upthevibe Oct 2024 #29
See post 49. Botany Oct 2024 #52
I would add #4 Karma13612 Oct 2024 #44
Until we control angrychair Oct 2024 #16
I believe the OP was talking about an amendment, not a convention JHB Oct 2024 #62
I had the same gut feeling when Hilliary ran Beachnutt Oct 2024 #36
We'll know soon. Scrivener7 Oct 2024 #2
That's a very encouraging take. Elessar Zappa Oct 2024 #3
"Nate Silver has fallen" Dennis Donovan Oct 2024 #4
I read the Nate Silver piece and I just shook my head. ificandream Oct 2024 #19
In short... paleotn Oct 2024 #35
I tend to agree with you. ificandream Oct 2024 #71
He is now paid by Peter Thiel. Nt spooky3 Oct 2024 #54
It's refreshing and helps the anxiety liberal N proud Oct 2024 #5
I'll believe it when PA is called for Harris on the evening of Nov. 5th RandomNumbers Oct 2024 #6
YES! And maybe GA? Which may take longer oldsoftie Oct 2024 #51
If i was any campaign 9 days out id want to be the Harris campaign MistakenLamb Oct 2024 #7
"all kinds of white people, both Anglos and Saxons..." Beartracks Oct 2024 #8
"Basket of adorables" tinrobot Oct 2024 #9
Republican for Kamala sign... Beartracks Oct 2024 #10
Yes, it's the non-MAGA Republican vote that's going to put us over Rocknation Oct 2024 #20
I read every word of this, Mr.Bill Oct 2024 #42
I recommend reading the article. Thanks for posting. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2024 #11
Trump canceling events and holding an inexplicable rally at Madison Square Garden surfered Oct 2024 #12
He should save that cash for cigarettes BaronChocula Oct 2024 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author surfered Oct 2024 #13
This is what struck me, regarding independent men: ananda Oct 2024 #14
What a great analysis .... ificandream Oct 2024 #17
This is an absolutely excellent article! I have a feeling of inevitability after Dobbs, and believe Harris will PatrickforB Oct 2024 #18
Thanks for sharing this! BluRay76 Oct 2024 #21
I believe two factors put Kamala over the top. GoodRaisin Oct 2024 #23
I believe Abstractartist Oct 2024 #25
In 9 days... the author of the linked piece will be a hero or a zero. WarGamer Oct 2024 #26
Hillary will win an electoral college landslide RandySF Oct 2024 #28
RandySF........ Upthevibe Oct 2024 #34
After Comey, you still thought it would be a landslide? Polybius Oct 2024 #38
Kamala doesn't think so iemanja Oct 2024 #30
I believe she does think so teran Oct 2024 #39
We'll see on election night iemanja Oct 2024 #43
The M$M ass-kissers are trying to coddle their fat fuck felon Blue Owl Oct 2024 #31
So it may turn out that the U.S. has fewer idiots than we thought? Turbineguy Oct 2024 #32
Great read, thanks! I shared it with friends. phylny Oct 2024 #40
Great article! skylucy Oct 2024 #41
Excellent piece, thank you! Wild blueberry Oct 2024 #45
He seems to have a good grip on some facts except BaronChocula Oct 2024 #46
I think Trump has already begun implementing Plan C Metaphorical Oct 2024 #48
Dont know who Stanford is but this confidence is misplaced. oldsoftie Oct 2024 #50
This is a great pick-me-up for . . . peggysue2 Oct 2024 #58
Thanks for this. nt LAS14 Oct 2024 #59
Good analysis. G_KIA Oct 2024 #60
I have already started calling her MADAM PRESIDENT! Emile Oct 2024 #65
Good Read DownriverDem Oct 2024 #68
I'm sure that this must have come up again in discussions here, but I missed it, if it did. BobTheSubgenius Oct 2024 #70

J_William_Ryan

(2,590 posts)
1. When the Constitution is amended to eliminate the EC...
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 01:13 PM
Oct 2024

Then I’ll stop being nervous about presidential elections.

Botany

(73,699 posts)
15. There hasn't been a republican elected to President since 1988 with the majority of the vote.
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:11 PM
Oct 2024

Btw Russia is now sending out posts to social media sites that say something to
the effect, “Want to get rid of the electoral college? Vote for Jill Stein.”

3 things that need to be done:

1) Eliminate the E.C.
B) shorten the campaigns …. Presidential 6 months max other races 4 months max
iii) get rid of electronic voting machines

Set up a cabinet position… department of nice … coach Tim in charge …. He likes dogs.
and stops and gets doggy kisses.

FreeForm73

(145 posts)
33. A friend used to work in the editorial dept. of the Greensburg Tribune-Review
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:02 PM
Oct 2024

He called when Citizen's United was passed, I told him then, not good, we are now on the way to fascism. Of course, my response was pooh-poohed, but as each step was taken that way, I made sure to remind him of my original statement.
He passed a few years back, but it would be interesting to hear his take now.

mjvpi

(1,614 posts)
66. I live in Montana. Anytime that I engage a MAGA, I always start with getting money out of politics.
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 07:35 PM
Oct 2024

Bingo. We agree on something. Dark Money s a really good documentary on our ex-governor’s , then Attorney General, Steve Bullock’s fight against dark money. He takes a case that was about Republican on Republican dirty tricks in a primary all the way to the Supreme Court. I agree with you about the systemic consequences of that decision.

Tweedy

(1,284 posts)
57. IMHO Citizens United should go first
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 04:21 PM
Oct 2024

We should do it by constitutional amendment.
We should be bold and declare (the obvious) corporations are not people.

If we get that done, much more will immediately become achievable.

Gore1FL

(22,357 posts)
24. George W. Bush pulled it off in 2004
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:42 PM
Oct 2024

Bush 62,040,610 (50.7%)
Kerry 59,028,444 (48.3%)


paleotn

(20,199 posts)
27. That was the last time. They've not come anywhere close since.
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:59 PM
Oct 2024

In fact, it's getting worse for them every cycle. The trend is in our favor. The high water mark for Republicans in the modern era was Reagan in 84 / Tricky in 72. Trump got a lower % of the vote in 16 and 20 than Romney got in 12.

Polybius

(19,625 posts)
37. "Trump got a lower % of the vote in 16 and 20 than Romney got in 12."
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:04 PM
Oct 2024

True for 2020 but false for 2016. Trump lost the Popular Vote that year by 2.1%. Romney lost by 3.9% in 2012.

paleotn

(20,199 posts)
61. In % point variance between winner and loser, yes. In %'s of the total vote, no.
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 05:52 PM
Oct 2024

Romney, 47.2% of total vote in 2012. Trump, 46.1% in 2016, 46.9% in 2020. Closer last time, but still shy of Romney.

Polybius

(19,625 posts)
69. Combined Third Parties were really strong in 2016, combining for 5.7% of the vote (the most since 1996)
Mon Oct 28, 2024, 12:29 AM
Oct 2024

2012 was normal, Third Parties got 1.7% of the vote. I expect even less this time around.

COL Mustard

(7,314 posts)
53. And yet here we are
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:55 PM
Oct 2024

Ten days or so before the election, and I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m very nervous about what might happen.

Botany

(73,699 posts)
49. w wouldn't have been in the 2004 election if not for the cheating in the 2000 election and I would
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:51 PM
Oct 2024

be dubious to the 2004 #s. That was some straight up nasty ass shit.

In Miami County (Ohio ) they loaded something like 20,000 new votes @ 10:30PM … 3 hours after
the close of voting and those “new votes” came in @ exactly the same % breakdowns as
the existing returns … even 2 points to the right of the decimal point.

Sparkly

(24,550 posts)
63. Q: Were those results verified? A: No. They couldn't be.
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 06:43 PM
Oct 2024

In important states and precincts, the voting machinery had no way to audit for accuracy, because there was no "paper trail." What can you test against if it's fully electronic, from the vote-casting through the tabulators?

Many bizarre statistical anomalies - or "irregularities" - were reported between exit polls and tabulated results, only as sharp outliers when things around them seemed normal. The states that year were Ohio, and as I recall, New Mexico.

Since then, the ability to check paper ballots has made a huge difference. Republicans suddenly have fits about "fraud" -- because it's harder for THEM to commit it!!

Upthevibe

(9,465 posts)
29. Botany ..................
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:00 PM
Oct 2024

Bush won the popular vote in 2004:

Bush
62,040,610 50.7%

Kerry
59,028,444 48.3%

Source: The American Presidency Project

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/elections/2004



Karma13612

(4,739 posts)
44. I would add #4
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:22 PM
Oct 2024

All primaries happen on the same day so EVERY PRIMARY VOTE COUNTS. Everyone has a say. No more candidates dropping out before your own state has their primary. I hated that I couldn’t vote for Elizabeth Warren in the primaries back in 2020.

I like your numbering scheme! You gave all the various list number options a chance! 👍😀

angrychair

(10,447 posts)
16. Until we control
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:13 PM
Oct 2024

More state legislatures it would be incredibly foolish to call a constitutional convention.
Republicans would front load it with their wish list and there would be nothing we could do to stop them. Everything from repealing the 19th amendment to an amendment against gay and mixed marriage would be passed and Democrats would not have the votes to stop it

JHB

(37,613 posts)
62. I believe the OP was talking about an amendment, not a convention
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 06:14 PM
Oct 2024

I agree, a convention would be foolish. Various billionaires (notably the Kochs) and multimillionaires have long-term organized efforts to have a new convention and what to do in it. With an existing game plan and a mountain of resources, there's much too great a chance they could effectively take control of a constitutional convention. Who needs Project 2025 when they can enact a modern equivalent of the Confederate Constitution?

Beachnutt

(8,617 posts)
36. I had the same gut feeling when Hilliary ran
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:04 PM
Oct 2024

I was so sure that I bet $100.00 on her to win.
I hope it doesn't happen again.

Dennis Donovan

(29,950 posts)
4. "Nate Silver has fallen"
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 01:20 PM
Oct 2024

/snip/
Nate Silver has fallen.

Nate Silver was treated as a prophet for another two presidential elections, but thus corrupted, we invited more corruption. First came Donald Trump, who began a reordering of political coalitions that polling wasn’t designed to measure. Polls were built to fight the last war, not detect an insurgency in 2016 or the chaos of 2020. Then, after Dobbs, the dials swung left, and Trump’s partisans discovered they could game the system by flooding aggregators with what Simon Rosenberg dubbed “red wave polls.” These bad-faith polls goosed support for Republicans, but that support never showed up to vote in 2022.

Polling is broken, and yet the experts in the news media tap the dials, knowing something is off but reporting it anyway as if corrupted data were verifiable news. This creates a funhouse mirror experience for the last remaining consumers of mainstream news. As Frank Spring, who’s been on a bit of a rant lately about polling on his Substack, told me, “CNN’s Harry Enten is out here telling us that there’s just no conceivable way to read this election as anything other than 50-50, but also that it’s extremely likely that it will be decided by a landslide.”

The corruption has come full circle and claimed it’s Dr. Frankenstein. Nate Silver has fallen:


Frank Spring: “I would throw myself in the sea before I wrote such a thing or permitted it to be published in my newspaper”

/snip

ificandream

(11,085 posts)
19. I read the Nate Silver piece and I just shook my head.
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:31 PM
Oct 2024

It really didn't make much sense to me. He seemed to be trying to justify something he couldn't justify.

paleotn

(20,199 posts)
35. In short...
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:04 PM
Oct 2024

he fucked up and wont admit it. I guess he can't accept the fact that political polling is simply not an exact science. No where close. Anyone who's ever built statistical models attempting to measure much less predict human behavior knows this if they're honest with themselves. Silver's ego apparently won't allow that.

ificandream

(11,085 posts)
71. I tend to agree with you.
Mon Oct 28, 2024, 03:16 PM
Oct 2024

All this cycle, I haven't paid as much attention to polls as the pundits would like. They screwed us in 2016. My feeling goes along with the substack piece I read yesterday that mentioned that Gen. Z voters aren't getting the attention (or the credit) they deserve. I think they'll be the ones who take a big role in deciding this one.

RandomNumbers

(18,486 posts)
6. I'll believe it when PA is called for Harris on the evening of Nov. 5th
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 01:28 PM
Oct 2024

or relatively early on Nov. 6th.

That's the "not close" that we really need.

 

oldsoftie

(13,538 posts)
51. YES! And maybe GA? Which may take longer
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:53 PM
Oct 2024

since the law doesnt allow early counting of mail ins.

MistakenLamb

(790 posts)
7. If i was any campaign 9 days out id want to be the Harris campaign
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 01:32 PM
Oct 2024

Kamala is closing strong on enthusiasm, messaging and outreach including 1.2 million doors in battleground states yesterday

tinrobot

(11,511 posts)
9. "Basket of adorables"
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 01:49 PM
Oct 2024

What a great way to describe Gen Z

There are other major parts of Kamala’s new Democratic-led coalition of the winning—a basket of adorables if you will. Gen Z is wildly in her camp;

Rocknation

(44,905 posts)
20. Yes, it's the non-MAGA Republican vote that's going to put us over
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:33 PM
Oct 2024

We owe Thomas Matthew Crooks' martyrdom a gargantuan debt of gratitude -- if not sainthood.


Rocknation

surfered

(5,880 posts)
12. Trump canceling events and holding an inexplicable rally at Madison Square Garden
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:05 PM
Oct 2024

Indicates he has smelled the coffee and is giving up, possibly saving campaign cash for his upcoming legal fees.

BaronChocula

(2,621 posts)
47. He should save that cash for cigarettes
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:36 PM
Oct 2024

if everything I learned from old prison movies is true.

Response to teran (Original post)

ananda

(31,431 posts)
14. This is what struck me, regarding independent men:
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:10 PM
Oct 2024

These are voters wanting a break from status quo, who don’t like the economy (even though they are doing well), and think the country is moving in the wrong direction. They should be inclined to punish the incumbent, which Kamala technically is. Except she isn’t. The greatest trick Kamala has pulled—perhaps the greatest in modern history—was to turn Trump into the incumbent and the Trump era into the status quo that she promises to move on from.


Now that was interesting and enlightening.

Greatest campaign ever!!!

ificandream

(11,085 posts)
17. What a great analysis ....
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:22 PM
Oct 2024

The power of young voters who won't be voting for Trump has been hugely underestimated (if mentioned at all) by pundits. I think it'll hit Trump squarely in the mouth.

PatrickforB

(15,195 posts)
18. This is an absolutely excellent article! I have a feeling of inevitability after Dobbs, and believe Harris will
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:24 PM
Oct 2024

not only win, but carry the House and Senate too in a Democratic mandate.

BluRay76

(54 posts)
21. Thanks for sharing this!
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:34 PM
Oct 2024

Good read, and a thoughtful analysis. I have enough situational anxiety that I won’t fully relax until she’s taking the oath of office, but when I can look past the anxiety and try to think rationally about the state of the country, this assessment of the state of the race makes sense to me. I have mostly lived in states where the race wasn’t close, and even my swing state years were spent in an urban, solidly blue region. Plus, I have been known to watch MSNBC from the end of the workday until it’s time for bed. All of this is to say that I don’t have a good feel for the priorities and mindset of most swing-state voters who don’t tune into politics until October. I appreciate all of the anecdotes and the visual evidence of pro-Harris enthusiasm - I was so excited for Hillary in 2016 and the election returns crushed me that year, but analyses like this, where the contrasts between then and now are clearly presented, are a balm for my soul.

GoodRaisin

(10,045 posts)
23. I believe two factors put Kamala over the top.
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:35 PM
Oct 2024

1. Women
2. Ground game. We have one, Trump doesn’t.

I don’t see Trump overcoming that combination.

Abstractartist

(218 posts)
25. I believe
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 02:54 PM
Oct 2024

I believe this may be correct. Trump said as much as he was paying for fake GOP polls on Joe Rogan podcast.

Polybius

(19,625 posts)
38. After Comey, you still thought it would be a landslide?
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:06 PM
Oct 2024

I thought Trump would do much better than expected, losing a fairly close race. Maybe Hillary with 290 EV's.

iemanja

(55,753 posts)
30. Kamala doesn't think so
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:00 PM
Oct 2024

and she would know. She has access to data the rest of us don't.

teran

(58 posts)
39. I believe she does think so
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:09 PM
Oct 2024

Her last few big speeches have made a remarkable shift from "we are the underdog" to "we are going to win" (sentiments, not direct quotes). I have no access to her campaign's internal polling, but I have watched the kind of disciplined campaign they are running. They are reaching out everywhere, to everyone, all the time. They have no intention of leaving out a state either because they think they already have it in the bag (see: Hillary, Michigan, 2016) or because they think it is unwinnable (see: Kamala, TEXAS, two days ago). They are making a direct appeal to every single eligible voter, in every corner of the country and they are not foolish enough to stop and coast now.
The larger margin Harris-Walz wins by - popular vote AND electoral college - the more difficult it will be for whatever post-election fuckery the Rs have planned to get a toehold.
AND... they are already planning for post-election fuckery! They are already winning court cases to make sure the votes get counted.
Just because they aren't telling all of us that it's okay, go open a beer and put your feet up doesn't mean that they don't see what is described above. But why win by 10 when you can win by 50?

iemanja

(55,753 posts)
43. We'll see on election night
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:18 PM
Oct 2024

I myself don't see the point of this kind of wishful thinking. As long as we win, I'm happy. I don't need to pretend it's going to be a blow out when the data indicates otherwise. I don't need or want to be coddled. I just want a win.

Blue Owl

(55,782 posts)
31. The M$M ass-kissers are trying to coddle their fat fuck felon
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:01 PM
Oct 2024

They seem afraid of upsetting the make-up wearing, flabby, doll-handed man-baby

BaronChocula

(2,621 posts)
46. He seems to have a good grip on some facts except
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:32 PM
Oct 2024

he poo-poos the polls and then proves his thesis with poll data.

He does point out what I've felt all along, mainly,
1. Dobbs would be a mover for Democrats.
2. You can't win when you lose members of your own party to the opponent which is what's happening to the rapist.

Metaphorical

(2,393 posts)
48. I think Trump has already begun implementing Plan C
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:39 PM
Oct 2024

Winning outright (popular vote) was never in the cards. Winning the EC was the goal, and it was, with a lot of hook and crook, achievable, but its also being undone almost faster than he can subvert the system because people are EXPECTING him to do this. A good magic trick is only effective if people don't know how it was done (and usually involved a lot of preparation), and he's become too predictable.

What he's trying to do as Plan C is to challenge the legitimacy of the election process. Even here, he's being checked because he's tried this before.

I think Harris will win. I HOPE that Harris will win by enough that it removes even the chance that he can challenge the results, but I'm also being realistic here.

 

oldsoftie

(13,538 posts)
50. Dont know who Stanford is but this confidence is misplaced.
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:51 PM
Oct 2024

Even though I know people who fit much of the criteria he mentions, I still think this is a close race because of the idiocy of many voters who SHOULD be smart enough to see thru trumps BS but still back him.
Swing states are close!!

peggysue2

(11,728 posts)
58. This is a great pick-me-up for . . .
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 04:27 PM
Oct 2024

Anyone losing sleep, anxious or depressed about current polling.

We're going to win this thing. And we could win it by impressive numbers.

Kamala Harris has been a great candidate. She has a stellar ground game. And President Biden, who put this into motion with a significant personal and political sacrifice, is right on the money:

She's going to make a Great President!

BobTheSubgenius

(11,945 posts)
70. I'm sure that this must have come up again in discussions here, but I missed it, if it did.
Mon Oct 28, 2024, 12:35 PM
Oct 2024

The media is heavily invested in having a horse race. A runaway win by either side is nowhere near as "interesting." Another way of saying it wouldn't be clickbait.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Kamala's winning, and it'...