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RandySF

(71,312 posts)
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 04:52 AM Oct 30

A Texas woman died after the hospital said it would be a crime to intervene in her miscarriage

Josseli Barnica grieved the news as she lay in a Houston hospital bed on Sept. 3, 2021: The sibling she’d dreamt of giving her daughter would not survive this pregnancy.

The fetus was on the verge of coming out, its head pressed against her dilated cervix; she was 17 weeks pregnant and a miscarriage was “in progress,” doctors noted in hospital records. At that point, they should have offered to speed up the delivery or empty her uterus to stave off a deadly infection, more than a dozen medical experts told ProPublica.

But when Barnica’s husband rushed to her side from his job on a construction site, she relayed what she said the medical team had told her: “They had to wait until there was no heartbeat,” he told ProPublica in Spanish. “It would be a crime to give her an abortion.”

For 40 hours, the anguished 28-year-old mother prayed for doctors to help her get home to her daughter; all the while, her uterus remained exposed to bacteria.

Three days after she delivered, Barnica died of an infection.



https://www.texastribune.org/2024/10/30/texas-abortion-ban-josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage/

109 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A Texas woman died after the hospital said it would be a crime to intervene in her miscarriage (Original Post) RandySF Oct 30 OP
You GD (mostly old ignorant as hell white) men DID this. May they rot in a hell of their own making. hlthe2b Oct 30 #1
Men and Women DID THIS!!! atreides1 Oct 30 #28
I said mostly. If you identify with those MOSTLY old ignorant male legislators who did this then hlthe2b Oct 30 #30
No, you said men did it. Gary 50 Oct 30 #85
Are. You unable to read the word "mostly." Maybe your screen needs to be replaced hlthe2b Oct 30 #91
People who vote Republican did this Jerry2144 Oct 30 #51
Yes! Rebl2 Oct 30 #53
Especially Paxton. ShazzieB Oct 30 #72
Don't blame only the men Dem4life1234 Oct 30 #76
When i lost our twins JustAnotherGen Oct 30 #2
Ohhh. Reading that is wrenching. Thank you for your courage in speaking out, though, JustAnotherGen. hlthe2b Oct 30 #41
Thank you. JustAnotherGen Oct 30 #79
That makes sense. sheshe2 Oct 30 #104
He's bananas! JustAnotherGen Oct 31 #108
I am so very sorry for your loss, JAG. sheshe2 Oct 30 #105
Good god... W_HAMILTON Oct 30 #3
Fucking pure evil what Trump did to that poor woman and her family. SunSeeker Oct 30 #4
I'm Amazed Each And Every Day That The Texas Capital Building Is Not Enshrouded In Pink Clouds Of Mist MayReasonRule Oct 30 #24
Horrible. This is the America we now live in. Doodley Oct 30 #5
our country is starting to feel very third world 4catsmom Oct 30 #89
Josseli Barnica is going to the polls this year to help both men and women do the right thing. Just like Botany Oct 30 #6
Calling Texas barracuda lawyers! raccoon Oct 30 #7
I don't know what is meant by "barracuda lawyer" but I think there's a lawsuit here. TomSlick Oct 30 #95
IMO, Rs made a big mistake messing with Texas women Deminpenn Oct 30 #8
I've seen a few broken families speak, but where are the women of Texas? Where are the protests? Maru Kitteh Oct 30 #47
Silence means approval ArkansasDemocrat1 Oct 30 #61
Or fear Hekate Oct 30 #80
Murder Godot51 Oct 30 #9
Exactly! sarchasm Oct 30 #11
I wonder, if someone were to be charged for her death: ecstatic Oct 30 #20
Yes all of the above KS Toronado Oct 30 #25
KEN PAXTON AND GREG ABBOTT! Jilly_in_VA Oct 30 #55
both need to stop processing oxygen verargert Oct 30 #87
Wasting O2 is more like it! Jilly_in_VA Oct 30 #97
It is not the doctor's fault-they are threatened with loss of license and jail time Stargazer99 Oct 30 #59
Solution DENVERPOPS Oct 30 #93
The blame belongs to republicans. Not medical providers. You can't provide care that is unlawful - tulipsandroses Oct 30 #66
This, thank you Hekate Oct 30 #81
Charge them all as accessories dickthegrouch Oct 30 #74
Paxton especially. He'll rot in Hell when he gets there. Jmb 4 Harris-Walz Oct 30 #75
Murder by Christofascist state government. dchill Oct 30 #102
Now *this* is murder. Abortion saves the only lives that matter. Solly Mack Oct 30 #10
To the government officials in Texas Roxi Oct 30 #13
Not just Texas. Solly Mack Oct 30 #14
A few years ago Roxi Oct 30 #16
We have been underestimated for far too long. Solly Mack Oct 30 #21
Yes, we have! Roxi Oct 30 #48
I hope so. Solly Mack Oct 30 #54
I try to be a good person Roxi Oct 30 #12
Simply awful. I hope more people come forward ecstatic Oct 30 #15
Hippocratic oath becomes hypocritical oath? Magoo48 Oct 30 #17
There is no force of law behind the oath. bottomofthehill Oct 30 #23
Yeah it doesn't work that way. I'm a nurse. I can't help people if I'm jailed. Same with the docs. Maru Kitteh Oct 30 #49
Agreed. I'm a nurse practitioner. It seems simple from the outside. But you can't provide care that is not legal tulipsandroses Oct 30 #70
It's hard to blame the doctors Roxi Oct 30 #50
I don't blame doctors at all. Magoo48 Oct 30 #68
Terrible, horrific, tragic, and unnecessary surfered Oct 30 #18
The christian extremists have normalized this outcome just as jeebus would have done wolfie001 Oct 30 #19
It's.... MarcoZandrini Oct 30 #22
It's more than than Texas, bub. marble falls Oct 30 #27
A respectful "this could be your daughter, your sister, your friend, your cousin ... you" ad would be apt and effective. marble falls Oct 30 #26
Sue the legislature and Governor for practicing medicine without a license. Freethinker65 Oct 30 #29
So fucking barbaric Horse with no Name Oct 30 #31
One more thing: ecstatic Oct 30 #32
Welcome to Texas under the white Evangelical Taliban. Lonestarblue Oct 30 #33
They are actually Christian and erasing that erases the role Christianity can play in our society. Calling them a WhiskeyGrinder Oct 30 #36
I may be agnostic, but I would defend only to the extent that it is a bastardized form of Christianity... hlthe2b Oct 30 #43
There are many, many interpretations of Christ's teachings. Some of those who protest outside of abortion clinics say WhiskeyGrinder Oct 30 #44
As there are interpretations of Islam. As one who has worked extensively in the Middle East, I found it fascinating hlthe2b Oct 30 #46
I am a Christian and agree whole heartly with this possible agnostic Stargazer99 Oct 30 #60
If they aren't Christians, what are they? Mariana Oct 30 #52
Women haters and murderers - that describes the people in power in these reich wing states. lark Oct 30 #34
She should have taken a chill pill and had a good laugh. NT mahatmakanejeeves Oct 30 #35
I don't understand the date. Sept. 3, 2021? Jeebo Oct 30 #37
People died under Roe too. Which is why "going back to Roe" isn't ideal. WhiskeyGrinder Oct 30 #45
I will bet fewer women died under Roe-so don't try to make it not matter Stargazer99 Oct 30 #62
Oh it definitely matters -- it's something people should refuse to settle for as we move forward. WhiskeyGrinder Oct 30 #71
And why wasn't this public during the Dobbs case? LeftInTX Oct 30 #69
Why are we not calling this MURDER? dmr Oct 30 #38
Texas, this is unacceptable ck4829 Oct 30 #39
That could have been my wife. Happy Hoosier Oct 30 #40
Gawd damn 3auld6phart Oct 30 #42
Giving care to her would have endangered doctor's license and threaten jail time-that should never have Stargazer99 Oct 30 #64
Sue the hospital, doctors, and everyone responsible for this. Liberty Belle Oct 30 #56
Dear Goddess claudette Oct 30 #57
This could have been me in GA some years ago. Demsrule86 Oct 30 #58
Sorry to hear of this pfitz59 Oct 30 #92
Honestly, I still tear up when discussing it. I had no idea before this happened to me Demsrule86 Oct 31 #109
This message was self-deleted by its author ArkansasDemocrat1 Oct 30 #63
What does that mean? When you miscarry there is no other life at stake other than the Demsrule86 Oct 30 #65
You damn right! Especially if your religious belief doesn't require to flirt with death of a living person Stargazer99 Oct 30 #67
I rec'd your original post and absolutely agree. REC Demsrule86 Oct 30 #73
Beyond horrible DRump and his deplorable Republicans are responsible for these deaths TommieMommy Oct 30 #77
Texas citizens should force a recall of Abbott -- he needs to be thrown out of office. I was watching a barber on TV Jmb 4 Harris-Walz Oct 30 #78
Horrific & unjust on so many levels. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 30 #82
How many people have the rightwing nazis murdered? Gary 50 Oct 30 #83
Kick dalton99a Oct 30 #84
Paxton and Abbott need to die on spikes, with all their associates ! verargert Oct 30 #86
I would sue the crap out of Abbott et al. 4catsmom Oct 30 #88
Murder by depraved indifference to human life. Every Republican who voted for this is guilty. Hermit-The-Prog Oct 30 #90
Josseli Clouds Passing Oct 30 #94
Women: the Throwaway Gender. calimary Oct 30 #96
Time to start suing these hospitals. oldsoftie Oct 30 #98
"Blessed Be The Fruit" Montauk6 Oct 30 #99
May all involved in this horrendous, hate-filled attack on women niyad Oct 30 #100
Sure, there are wmen who have voted for Republicans. There have been some - soldierant Oct 30 #101
oops. oh well. she's black. pansypoo53219 Oct 30 #103
What is happening to women in these States IS Hideous... electric_blue68 Oct 30 #106
Congratulations to all the "pro-life" assholes responsible for this. eShirl Oct 31 #107

hlthe2b

(107,159 posts)
1. You GD (mostly old ignorant as hell white) men DID this. May they rot in a hell of their own making.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 05:02 AM
Oct 30

atreides1

(16,448 posts)
28. Men and Women DID THIS!!!
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:40 AM
Oct 30

Not only men...women helped as well. We need to stop forgetting that women in Texas and the rest of the country supported these evil laws!

Time to quit putting this on men only!!!

hlthe2b

(107,159 posts)
30. I said mostly. If you identify with those MOSTLY old ignorant male legislators who did this then
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:42 AM
Oct 30

that was not what I said, but you need to rethink. I did not put this on men only. I put it on "mostly old ignorant white males" who legislated this. Is that YOU? I would assume NOT or you would not be posting on DU.

AND Yes, it WAS overwhelmingly old ignorant white male legislators. Overwhelmingly.

Gary 50

(401 posts)
85. No, you said men did it.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 04:09 PM
Oct 30

Your clarifying clause in parenthesis "mostly old white men" doesn't change the meaning of men did it. That is what you said and you need to rethink. If you said it was done mostly by men who could argue with that? Maybe that what you meant but that is not what you said.

hlthe2b

(107,159 posts)
91. Are. You unable to read the word "mostly." Maybe your screen needs to be replaced
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 04:39 PM
Oct 30

Last edited Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Otherwise, this is ridiculous. Yes it IS mostly male legislators passing these bills as it has been in every state since our founding.

If you take offense at pointing out that FACT then I think you are not being realistic./honest with yourself and others. No one is accusing men on DU but your sensitivity to the truth is just beyond the pale.

Women on DU are not going to be BS(ed) about this. We have ALL LIVED IT and we have every right to tell the TRUTH.

ShazzieB

(19,044 posts)
72. Especially Paxton.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 11:34 AM
Oct 30

I honestly believe that man is every bit as sociopathic and evil as Donald Trump!

Both [Cruz and Abbott] declined to comment to ProPublica, as did state Attorney General Ken Paxton, whose commitment to the ban remains steadfast as he fights for access to the out-of-state medical records of women who travel for abortions. Earlier this month, as the nation grappled with the first reported, preventable deaths related to abortion access, Paxton celebrated a decision by the U.S. Supreme Court that allowed Texas to ignore federal guidance requiring doctors to provide abortions that are needed to stabilize emergency patients.

“This is a major victory,” Paxton said.

*snip*

When a Dallas woman asked a court for approval to end her pregnancy because her fetus was not viable and she faced health risks if she carried it to term, Paxton fought to keep her pregnant. He argued her doctor hadn’t proved it was an emergency and threatened to prosecute anyone who helped her. “Nothing can restore the unborn child’s life that will be lost as a result,” he wrote to the court.


Because fuck the woman's life, right, Ken? That man makes me sick. All that sanctimonious hand-wringing about making women suffer (and even die!) unnecessarily in the name of "saving babies" is nauseating coming from someone who can't muster even the slightest concern for the welfare of living, breathing, thinking, feeling women or their partners and families. What a hypocritical creep!

Dem4life1234

(2,040 posts)
76. Don't blame only the men
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 01:44 PM
Oct 30

There are plenty of disgusting women who throw other women underneath the bus.

There are many vindictive women responsible for these backwards reproductive laws. Look at that idiot sitting on the SC, she's responsible.

I am so beyond pissed.

JustAnotherGen

(33,949 posts)
2. When i lost our twins
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 05:29 AM
Oct 30

At 18 weeks - The hospital in New Jersey intervened.

Ten years later - I'm posting this at DU.

hlthe2b

(107,159 posts)
41. Ohhh. Reading that is wrenching. Thank you for your courage in speaking out, though, JustAnotherGen.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 08:12 AM
Oct 30

JustAnotherGen

(33,949 posts)
79. Thank you.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 02:30 PM
Oct 30

We had several.

My husband is of the mindset that the husband's of women in Texas in distress need to start walking into the ER with handguns.

1. They are gun people down there.

And

2. He would have done it for me.

The pain of watching his wife nearly die informs his opinion. As he said: you might go to jail - but your wife will live.

sheshe2

(88,548 posts)
104. That makes sense.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 09:48 PM
Oct 30

Husbands should go in with guns because they are legal and an abortion to save a woman's life is illegal. Go figure.

MayReasonRule

(1,957 posts)
24. I'm Amazed Each And Every Day That The Texas Capital Building Is Not Enshrouded In Pink Clouds Of Mist
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:24 AM
Oct 30

Each supporter of this lawless law is guilty of crimes against humanity.

Capital crimes deserve capital punishment.

Fuck their depravity.

Botany

(72,789 posts)
6. Josseli Barnica is going to the polls this year to help both men and women do the right thing. Just like
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 05:49 AM
Oct 30

Georgia’s Amber Thurman totally unnecessary deaths because of the reach of Christo Facsists shits
sticking their nose into what is none of their business. It would nice to see 100 million votes.

TomSlick

(11,988 posts)
95. I don't know what is meant by "barracuda lawyer" but I think there's a lawsuit here.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 05:27 PM
Oct 30

According to a Texas state website, there are exceptions to the ban:

The patient must have a life-threatening condition and be at risk of death or "substantial impairment of a major bodily function" if the abortion is not performed. "Substantial impairment of a major bodily function" is not defined in this chapter.


The exception seems to apply. The failure to provide appropriate care would be malpractice.

Deminpenn

(16,370 posts)
8. IMO, Rs made a big mistake messing with Texas women
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 06:19 AM
Oct 30

who seem to me to be an unusually tough bunch.

Maru Kitteh

(29,301 posts)
47. I've seen a few broken families speak, but where are the women of Texas? Where are the protests?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 09:43 AM
Oct 30

I'm baffled by the quiet.

ecstatic

(34,569 posts)
20. I wonder, if someone were to be charged for her death:
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:12 AM
Oct 30

Who should be charged? The state of Texas? The hospital? The doctor? All of the above?

I'm leaning towards all of the above. Why are these hospitals and doctors following orders that kill patients? It's insane. They need to update the doctor's code of ethics or something.

KS Toronado

(19,927 posts)
25. Yes all of the above
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:34 AM
Oct 30

Elected reQublican Texas officials wrote a law so terrible doctors & hospitals are scared for their
livelihood which is now more important than their patients.

For every life that has been unnecessarily lost I hope it drives Texans to vote straight BLUE.

Jilly_in_VA

(11,249 posts)
55. KEN PAXTON AND GREG ABBOTT!
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 10:16 AM
Oct 30

They're in charge, but mostly that smarmy worm PAXTON! He's the guilty bastard. He's the Attorney General. Charge him!

Stargazer99

(3,059 posts)
59. It is not the doctor's fault-they are threatened with loss of license and jail time
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 10:35 AM
Oct 30

It is the murdering law makers..this woman might have lived with proper care. to deny her that care is actively participating in LEGALIZED MURDER

DENVERPOPS

(10,320 posts)
93. Solution
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 04:52 PM
Oct 30

The doctors in these states, should all band together and file a huge class action law suit against the legislators, (by name) for practicing medicine without a license.......

tulipsandroses

(6,311 posts)
66. The blame belongs to republicans. Not medical providers. You can't provide care that is unlawful -
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 10:58 AM
Oct 30

Aside from the potential real legal ramifications. Just like your car insurance - malpractice insurance does not cover unlawful acts.
If you are doing donuts and speed racing and crash into someone - your auto insurance will not cover your damage, protect you from the other person suing you while the accident occurred while you were doing something illegal.
These laws were purposefully made to put fear in medical providers. Some of these laws are not clear enough about what is permissible and what is not. Every hospital has a legal department, if the legal department interprets the law to tell you that it is not permissible - then its not that simple for any medical provider to just ignore and just do what they want to. Who protects the providers? And keep in mind that we are talking about entire teams, not just a doctor, the nurses, anesthesiologists, even the low wage patient care tech checking blood pressure, required to care for the patient. Does the doctor that wants to do the procedure, despite what Greg Abbot and the hospital legal department says, force the nurses and patient care techs to join him? Does he attempt to do it all by him/herself if he can't convince those who may be scared of going to jail or being sued to join him? How does he/she convince a PCT that might be making $10 per hour to risk being sued or worse?

They have put the entire health care team in a no win situation - The fault squarely belongs with republicans who ripped away the rights of women. Health care providers are humans like the rest of us, they have children, spouses and families that depend on them. Asking them to risk their freedom, and security of their families is asking for a lot. It's the laws that need to change. Its republicans hell bent on controlling women that need to change.

When it's all said and done, there will be many women who have lost their lives. Many broken families. And yes, even broken health care providers. It's tough when you lose a patient. Its traumatic. Many providers get depressed, question themselves, even when it's not their fault. Providers are leaving states with some of these draconian laws. That puts the healthcare of all at risk. We already have a shortage of health care providers in this country. Many towns without OB GYNS, that will get worse. The maternal mortality rate will get worse. When it comes to high risk pregnancies, how many providers will want to continue to do that work?

The government and republicans need to stay out of healthcare decisions. Stop tying the hands of providers who want to provide care that patients need.

dickthegrouch

(3,679 posts)
74. Charge them all as accessories
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 01:29 PM
Oct 30

Legislators, Governors, judges who failed to accord equal protection, even donors to campaigns. They are all complicit in this murder.

Solly Mack

(93,316 posts)
10. Now *this* is murder. Abortion saves the only lives that matter.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 06:45 AM
Oct 30

And the woman's life is the only life that matters.

Solly Mack

(93,316 posts)
14. Not just Texas.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 06:53 AM
Oct 30

And a lot of people better hope women as a whole don't decide to get even. I'm on the side of getting even myself.

Roxi

(2,163 posts)
16. A few years ago
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:06 AM
Oct 30

There was a meme going around showing Medusa holding a man’s head (either Poseidon’s or Perseus’), with a caption warning men that they’d best hope women don’t decide that it’s time for our own revenge.

I wish I could find that now.

They’ve underestimated us for far too long.

Roxi

(2,163 posts)
12. I try to be a good person
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 06:48 AM
Oct 30

But those evil lawmakers make me wish I could give them the same pain, suffering, and death that they so gleefully force upon women.

I am so incredibly angry that this is something our country has to deal with in 2024. We should be moving forward as a civilization, not ignoring all of the medical advances we’ve made as a species just because people don’t want to cede their power over others.

ecstatic

(34,569 posts)
15. Simply awful. I hope more people come forward
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:06 AM
Oct 30

Texas, Georgia and the other Southern States have a chance to change this and to stand up for women. I will feel very insulted if voters stay the current course. Shame on any woman who is complicit in this carnage.

Magoo48

(5,618 posts)
17. Hippocratic oath becomes hypocritical oath?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:10 AM
Oct 30

Should no Doc’s oath override laws in these cases? I think so.

bottomofthehill

(8,942 posts)
23. There is no force of law behind the oath.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:23 AM
Oct 30

Hopefully women, and the men who love them and want to see than safe will rise up and vote to remove those that have put them in harms way and further legislate the end to these foolish laws that endanger expecting mothers ( and those with Ectopic pregnancies and other realted issues). It is insane that a woman can die in a Hospital from such an easily prevented cause.

Maru Kitteh

(29,301 posts)
49. Yeah it doesn't work that way. I'm a nurse. I can't help people if I'm jailed. Same with the docs.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 09:47 AM
Oct 30

The law is the law. The oath is a promise you make to your profession. Not the same.

tulipsandroses

(6,311 posts)
70. Agreed. I'm a nurse practitioner. It seems simple from the outside. But you can't provide care that is not legal
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 11:20 AM
Oct 30

You can't just do what you want when the state and your legal department says you can't.
AND if the care is not legal, then your license could be in jeopardy. I said in my post upstream., asking healthcare providers to risk their freedom and the security of their own families, is asking for a lot.

The medical community has been put in a no win situation.
I just wish these republicans would mind their business and leave health care decisions to patients and their healthcare team. And it is a team. A doctor can't just rush in to do a procedure on his own. He or she can't force nurses, PCTs, anesthesiologists, and anyone else needed to join him or her in what may be an illegal procedure.

Roxi

(2,163 posts)
50. It's hard to blame the doctors
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 09:54 AM
Oct 30

In most cases, if a doctor truly had a problem with performing an abortion or helping a woman deliver a dying fetus before sepsis sets in, they’d arrange for a colleague to take over.

In places like Texas, though, there’s a huge legal threat holding the doctors hostage. Even if they haven’t yet prosecuted a doctor under their draconian laws, they could.

Even the most kind-hearted souls would balk when faced with 99 years in prison and a felony conviction, and those horrible lawmakers know that.

Until we can change the leadership of the entire country, this is only going to get worse.

Magoo48

(5,618 posts)
68. I don't blame doctors at all.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 11:03 AM
Oct 30

I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of a society which respects the crazed prejudices of Christofascists over the oaths/responsibility of doctors to care for the those in need.

wolfie001

(3,911 posts)
19. The christian extremists have normalized this outcome just as jeebus would have done
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:11 AM
Oct 30

This election, if we win, will still leave our country teetering on the edge. They need to be slammed down and kicked out of all government power structures.

marble falls

(62,646 posts)
26. A respectful "this could be your daughter, your sister, your friend, your cousin ... you" ad would be apt and effective.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:39 AM
Oct 30

Freethinker65

(11,165 posts)
29. Sue the legislature and Governor for practicing medicine without a license.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:41 AM
Oct 30

This should be a crime. Standard of care practices were deliberately denied from an American citizen.

ecstatic

(34,569 posts)
32. One more thing:
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:45 AM
Oct 30

Supporters of these horrible laws won't be able to spin this death this like they spinned the deaths of Amber Nicole Thurman and Candi Miller in Georgia.

Barnica's tragic ordeal shows that it's not just women who took the abortion pill who are dying. Due to these draconian, inhumane laws, pregnant women do not have access to emergency, life saving healthcare. That's the bottom line.

Lonestarblue

(12,050 posts)
33. Welcome to Texas under the white Evangelical Taliban.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:45 AM
Oct 30

I will not call them Christian anymore because they are not. Texas already had high maternal death rates. I suppose that Abbott will start suppressing those rates so voters won’t know how truly bad Texas is.

WhiskeyGrinder

(24,184 posts)
36. They are actually Christian and erasing that erases the role Christianity can play in our society. Calling them a
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:54 AM
Oct 30

Taliban exoticizes their work and makes it sound like it's something that isn't American, when it very much is. Most Sharia scholars say abortion is allowable for any reason up to 120 days, which was the gestational age of this fetus, and for the health of the pregnant person at any time.

hlthe2b

(107,159 posts)
43. I may be agnostic, but I would defend only to the extent that it is a bastardized form of Christianity...
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 09:17 AM
Oct 30

one that has removed Christ's teachings (New Testament) from its teachings/beliefs to spew only Old Testament punitive messages to punish/control others. There are plenty of liberals who follow the original teachings and are appalled by today's politicized Xian fundamentalists. I can respect them.

WhiskeyGrinder

(24,184 posts)
44. There are many, many interpretations of Christ's teachings. Some of those who protest outside of abortion clinics say
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 09:33 AM
Oct 30

they are loving their neighbor, their "preborn neighbor," as themselves, and that warning of eternal damnation is an act of love. Some of those who preach against LGBTQ people cite Christ's teachings about a man cleaving to his wife. It goes on and on.

There are plenty of liberals who follow the original teachings and are appalled by today's politicized Xian fundamentalists.
Do they follow his teachings about evangelizing; his commandment to spread the gospel to all the nations of the world? Do they respect is promise that his teachings would bust up families and communities because it was so radical, in that following him means forsaking everything else? These are interpretations that are no more and no less valid than "love everyone" and "feed the hungry." There is no "original" teaching or "true" Christianity. It's all interpretation.

hlthe2b

(107,159 posts)
46. As there are interpretations of Islam. As one who has worked extensively in the Middle East, I found it fascinating
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 09:39 AM
Oct 30

(and no, I am not focusing on similar attempts to bastardize Islam in the name of harming others or blatant terrorism).

So, the broad brush accusations and assumptions of intent/actions--based on someone's professed religion is inherently problematic.

As many Muslims (and Jews--especially in light of Tay Sach's congenital disease) are not opposed to abortion in general, neither are many more liberal Christians--which, undoubtedly includes many here. The latter are NOTHING like the hypocritical abusive Xian fundamentalist MAGAs and I feel outrage on THEIR BEHALF at their being lumped in with them.

Mariana

(15,218 posts)
52. If they aren't Christians, what are they?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 10:02 AM
Oct 30

Are they atheists? Are they secretly followers of some other religion? What?

lark

(24,394 posts)
34. Women haters and murderers - that describes the people in power in these reich wing states.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:48 AM
Oct 30

Alito and Thomas would approve of this - it is exactly what they intended to happen. Women relegated to the role of baby providers and being killed if something goes wrong. The men there are too fucking stupid and don't care that 1 out of 3 pregnancies naturally end in miscarriage within the first 90 days - 1/3!!! It happened to me 2x before I was able to have my first child. One of them was tubal, wonder what would have happened these days with that - would I have been left to rupture and die in the state of FL - probably!

Women need to stand up and vote out all these hating assholes!!!

Jeebo

(2,338 posts)
37. I don't understand the date. Sept. 3, 2021?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 08:00 AM
Oct 30

In 2021 Roe v. Wade was still the law of the land. Is that date not correct?

— Ron

WhiskeyGrinder

(24,184 posts)
45. People died under Roe too. Which is why "going back to Roe" isn't ideal.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 09:37 AM
Oct 30
But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

WhiskeyGrinder

(24,184 posts)
71. Oh it definitely matters -- it's something people should refuse to settle for as we move forward.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 11:30 AM
Oct 30

LeftInTX

(31,175 posts)
69. And why wasn't this public during the Dobbs case?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 11:20 AM
Oct 30

We find out all this stuff too late!

dmr

(28,678 posts)
38. Why are we not calling this MURDER?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 08:03 AM
Oct 30

This young mother could have been easily treated, sent home heartbroken from her loss.

BUT, with her loss she would go home to love and nurture her daughter, then hopefully and joyously conceive again.

Instead the damn, cruel, idiotic laws MURDERED her.

Yes! MURDER!

Happy Hoosier

(8,604 posts)
40. That could have been my wife.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 08:10 AM
Oct 30

We were in our second preganancy. At 12 weeks the OB told us that the embryo was not viable. It was not growing fast enough... heartbeat very slow, some apparent abmormalities. He said there was NO chance of a viable birth. He recommended terminating due to the risk of sepsis, which he said could go from "0 to Dead" in a matter of a few days. We followed his advice. It emotionally hurt, but it as the right call.

That would be illegal in Texas. And my wife could have gotten sick and died and left me and our daughter alone.

The Republican death cult does not care.

3auld6phart

(1,331 posts)
42. Gawd damn
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 08:23 AM
Oct 30

Coowardly, spineless medical staff should be charged with , at the least withmanslaughter.. Fuckingcowards .include that prick abbot and his politicians. What a fucked up country. Shame.

Stargazer99

(3,059 posts)
64. Giving care to her would have endangered doctor's license and threaten jail time-that should never have
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 10:49 AM
Oct 30

been. It is not the doctor's fault it is the idiots that vote for these legalized killers

Liberty Belle

(9,625 posts)
56. Sue the hospital, doctors, and everyone responsible for this.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 10:20 AM
Oct 30

Seek wrongful death penalties.

Make them pay financially for this evil action, and perhaps they'll think twice before letting more women die.

Demsrule86

(71,036 posts)
58. This could have been me in GA some years ago.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 10:29 AM
Oct 30

We had moved from PA to Georgia...I was unexpectedly pregnant. I had a full term pregnancy loss in PA (caught food poisoning) and several miscarriages that resulted in the need for a D&C...I bleed and am prone to infection. I accidentally chose a 'pro-life' doctor. I didn't know. And I miscarried. I was bleeding pretty badly. But was told I had to 'wait until the hormone level came back to make sure the baby was gone'. The ultrasound clearly showed no baby. dropping hormone rates can take weeks by the way. I didn't know that. Anyway a couple days after it started, I felt awful horrible cramps, fever and bleeding quite a bit.

I went to the doctors office and the nurse basically sneered at me and sent me away. That evening I hemorrhaged in my kitchen. I had a104 degree fever. I had three young kids. My six year old ran to our neighbors who took one look at me and got her husband to carry me to her car. couldn't walk and was in and out of consciousness. They drove me to the hospital. Georgia has terrible traffic and it was quicker than calling for an ambulance. After I arrived my so called doctor put me in a room, no IV and no call button. He did nothing. Still waiting for the hormone levels I guess. My husband was out of town. He had gotten on a plane in the morning to came home...he was worried. He went directly to the hospital and found me laying in a huge pool of blood... dripping on the floor. I was unconscious. But bleeding to death is painful as is infection. And I knew I was dying on some level.

Hubs screamed bloody murder fired the doctor and a young resident saved my life. I was treated with massive doses of antibiotics and I needed huge transfusions and platelets...three weeks in the hospital on the maternity floor followed. It took me a year to recover physically and mentally. I was left infertile and while we hadn't planned more kids that should have been my choice. To this day, I hate the doctor and the nurse. They didn't give a damn about me I hope there is a hell so they can both burn for eternity. Roe was more than abortion, it was health care and I know I would have died in this environment.

pfitz59

(11,084 posts)
92. Sorry to hear of this
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 04:46 PM
Oct 30

My dad was a small-town doctor (pre-Roe). He was prominent in our church and arranged many adoptions for 'unwanted' pregnancies. He took his Hippocratic oath seriously and was the 'go to' doctor for women such as yourself. He was known to 'lose the paperwork' on occasion as abortion was illegal. He saved many women who had miscarried or suffered botched abortions. He was a large man and had taken doctors such as your butcher 'to the woodshed' for such actions.

Demsrule86

(71,036 posts)
109. Honestly, I still tear up when discussing it. I had no idea before this happened to me
Thu Oct 31, 2024, 10:12 AM
Oct 31

that Roe represented health care. I had always as many women did assumed that no one would ever want to kill women. I underestimated the evil of the right. My OBGYN seemed so nice but he was a monster who almost caused my death. I probably should have let go of my hatred of him and his bitch nurse but I never could. I try not to dwell on it. And working to end this before more women die has helped.

Response to RandySF (Original post)

Demsrule86

(71,036 posts)
65. What does that mean? When you miscarry there is no other life at stake other than the
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 10:50 AM
Oct 30

Mother's.

Stargazer99

(3,059 posts)
67. You damn right! Especially if your religious belief doesn't require to flirt with death of a living person
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 10:59 AM
Oct 30

TommieMommy

(1,316 posts)
77. Beyond horrible DRump and his deplorable Republicans are responsible for these deaths
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 01:55 PM
Oct 30

This makes me angry and sad what is happening

Jmb 4 Harris-Walz

(1,049 posts)
78. Texas citizens should force a recall of Abbott -- he needs to be thrown out of office. I was watching a barber on TV
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 02:00 PM
Oct 30

being interviewed — he was asked if he thought black men weren’t voting for Kamala because she’s a woman. He replied “I’m married, there’s no way I’ll answer that question”. The interviewer persisted and got him to admit he’d heard other black men say they felt that way. Then he mentioned that his wife ran the household and it was like a lightbulb went off in his head and he said, that if women can run household there’s no reason they can run the country. It was comical how you saw him work that out right there on TV. 😂

Ironically, women would probably get a whole lot more done then men who always seem to put their pride first. They can’t stand having their pride hurt! We should turn our congressional representatives ALL women. Through the men out of office and take over. Women are more concerned about their family & children than themselves; they’d get lots of shit done.

Power to the women!!!!

Gary 50

(401 posts)
83. How many people have the rightwing nazis murdered?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 03:51 PM
Oct 30

Trump killed half a million with his lies and incompetence about covid. The ending of the ban on assault weapons has killed how many? And now they are killing women with laws prohibiting giving health care to dying women. Trump and his fascist party are a death cult. How do these monsters sleep at night? Like babies. Psychopaths have no conscience.

4catsmom

(345 posts)
88. I would sue the crap out of Abbott et al.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 04:14 PM
Oct 30

and I'd get the hell out of Texas if I were pregnant

Clouds Passing

(3,095 posts)
94. Josseli
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 05:16 PM
Oct 30


I am so sorry for the trauma and suffering you endured at the hands of immoral harmful hateful legislators and judges who took your life. I am sorry to your loved ones who had to endure such a horror, your loss and the loss of your beloved child to be.

I don't know how doctors and nurses can even continue to practice in these heinously murderous states. Leave now, there are personnel shortages in many “free” states so you shouldn’t have a hard time finding a good job.

1/3 of women in the USA now live in slave states. Make no mistake, taking away a woman’s right to her own healthcare IS slavery, period!

First they came for the women…

 

oldsoftie

(13,538 posts)
98. Time to start suing these hospitals.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 06:54 PM
Oct 30

The GOP claims there are exceptions so MAKE the hospitals defend these terrible decisions or make the govt admit there ARENT any exemptions

Montauk6

(8,797 posts)
99. "Blessed Be The Fruit"
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 06:54 PM
Oct 30

"May The Lord Open"

This is what these sick bastards are hoping for. Plus, she was a Honduras immigrant, so you won't see TSF's shedding any tears given their penchant for viewing immigrants as less than.

MALLOY friggin' 3:16!!!! (smh)

niyad

(121,043 posts)
100. May all involved in this horrendous, hate-filled attack on women
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:18 PM
Oct 30

receive everything they deserve.

soldierant

(8,075 posts)
101. Sure, there are wmen who have voted for Republicans. There have been some -
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:48 PM
Oct 30

-- too many I might add -- in every electin. By and liarge they are brainwashed - so brainwashed they are misogynists themselves.Can we all agree that it is misogynists to blame for this? Misogynists, of whom many, maybe most, but by no means all, are men? And then just leave the gender out?

electric_blue68

(19,113 posts)
106. What is happening to women in these States IS Hideous...
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 11:02 PM
Oct 30

And depending on how politics turn out all the rest of child bearing age women could lose their freedom if a national abortion ban was enacted!

I've always said a woman who can't chose when, or if to have a child/children is not free.

This particular tragedy seems to hit me harder when I read this mother said all she wanted for her daughter was to have a sister.

I only have a younger sister. We love, and like each other. We have had many decades of get togthers, and times going out.
Last year w a freak medical thing she ended up with sepsis, and made it through. I didn't know she actually had it (she might not have know either) till after, I was afraid of her getting it.

And now Josseli's daughter doesn't have a sister, she's lost her mother, too. Arrrgggg!

eShirl

(18,902 posts)
107. Congratulations to all the "pro-life" assholes responsible for this.
Thu Oct 31, 2024, 03:38 AM
Oct 31

Mission accomplished.

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