Raw milk is delicious but deadly. RFKennedy Jr.

[applegrove]

wants to stop it's regulation. So there is that.

[marble falls]

1. I can testify: I didn't even have any unpasteurized milk product or be around bovines ...

... I got Brucelosis. It took months to figure out and crazy amounts of strong antibiotics and I understand it might have just decided to hide to come back later. The dangerous thing isn't the "unpasteurized", it's the "unregulated".

[applegrove]

2. That sounds awful.

[marble falls]

9. It was awful. Coming just after cancer surgeries didn't help. It was heavy flu and and extreme tiredness 24/7 ...

... the testing required and the number of blood tests (one draw require 15 tubes), i was hospitalized for the tests, scans etc before it was confirmed. And I saw two unpasturized milk and cheese tables at a local farmer's market. Surprised me.

As a young hippie I used unpasteurized milk and cheese. But the operation was regulated by a state ag inspector who tagged the cows and and county health inspectors who monitored the milk room and process room. In those days it was considered an operation the authorities took very seriously. You could only by at the dairy, there was no one selling product at flea markets out of an ice chest. No one was flaunting rules or regulators.

I haven't used unpasteurized products since the eighties when regulations in many fields were undercut starting with Reagan.

[getagrip_already]

3. I never cared for it....

I used to work on a dairy farm and tried it. Tasted like drinking cream.

Yuck.

Like milk, but that was too much.

[applegrove]

6. I spent two weeks on a farm vacation when I was a tween.

I got used to the milk in a couple of days and loved that taste. And the fresh eggs too. Yummy. But it kills people. So it should be banned. They ban it in Canada.

[Timewas]

4. Sometimes

I guess, but with proper precautions it is perfectly fine. We have been drinking it for years,14 people on the ranch here and never and problems.

[marble falls]

10. And that is the important part: It's done on the farm. It's when the product travels that lives are put to risk ...

... one bad batch contaminates all the clean ones.

[Timewas]

19. True

And none of ours leaves here, we drink the milk, make our own butter and can the milk for cooking. And very strict sanitary practices.

We also make cheese and yogurt

[Cirsium]

23. Of course

Public health and safety regulations are for the protection of the public. The right wingers want the freedom to sell whatever they want without any regulation. They are disingenuously characterizing that as the freedom to consume anything they want. RFK Jr. can eat all of the week old road kill bear meat he wants to eat, but he can't sell it to the public. Likewise, you are free to consume all of the raw milk you choose to consume. That is not what this issue is about.

[TommyT139]

28. Please keep up with news re H1N1 in herds.

Some links in my comment below. So far, nearly all cases of H1N1 in humans are from contact, not consumption, and have been mold, but this is thought to be a virus with potential to be harmful to humans.

As long as monitoring is mandatory and science-based, hopefully mutation will be limited. But with deregulation?

[Timewas]

32. From what I have read

H1N1 is associated with pigs not cows and raw milk.

[TommyT139]

34. Seems like mostly cows, spreading rapidly

But in pigs, there may be more risk of mutation to a form affecting humans more.

Using California as an example, the first cases in cow herds were identified in August.

From CNN Oct. 8th:

...dairy farms in California are reporting that the virus is infecting 50% to 60% of their herds, and 10% to 15% of the cows are dying from their infections, according to the California Dairy Quality Assurance Program.

Other states are showing different rates, but this is a situation that would be scary without functioning, trained, funded government oversight.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/health/bird-flu-california-dairy-farms/index.html?origin=serp_auto

CDC link etc. in my comment below.

We can't afford Trump mishandling another pandemic.

[Timewas]

44. Ooops

Missed that one

[TommyT139]

36. Late edit: "mold" should be "mild"

[lastlib]

5. Having grown up on a dairy farm.....

I must be dead at my keyboard.....and all our barn cats must be down to their ninth life.

Now we did skim off the cream for various uses, like making butter, some cooking, etc.

[murielm99]

7. We didn't have any dairy cattle

when we farmed. My grandma would not let us drink it.

[NickB79]

14. You likely drank the milk the same day it was pulled

I also grew up on a dairy farm. And your family must have taken care to properly sanitize your cattle's teats prior to milking, along with proper equipment sanitation. As such, your risk of infection was very low.

But stretch that out to a few days, sub-optimal cooling, playing fast and loose with the sanitation, and you're asking for trouble.

If you don't know the farmer who pulled your raw milk on a first name basis, you shouldn't be drinking it. It's all about trust.

[Mosby]

8. It makes good cheese. nt.

[marble falls]

11. Makes great cheese until amateurs get into it. Regulation and inspection is key.

[getagrip_already]

16. Lol, ill give you one guess where rejected milk goes?

I used to work on a dairy farm and we sold to a coop that took a sample every time they picked up. If the bacteria count was too high, they wouldnt take the load and you would get quarenteened for a month. They did the same thing for antibiotics, but that result would come later.

My uncle was paranoid about having to dump thousands og gallons, so we were fairly careful with ssnitation.

Anyway, farmers whose milk was dirty wouldnt just dump it, they would trsnsfer it to pails or barrels and sell it to cheesemakers.

They didnt make as much, but they got something.

So no, bacteria in milk doesnt stop cheese makers.

[marble falls]

17. Cheese makers have to have inspection cycles. They also pasteurize milk.

[getagrip_already]

25. Well, that depends....

Factory cheese absolutely.

Artisan cheese, not so much. Im not up on current laws since my experience was in ny in the 70's, but i have seen some artisan bakeries, jam houses, even hot sauce makers, and they work out of homes with little inspection.

[Red Mountain]

29. Bacteria in milk

is terrible for consistent cheese making. You can't pasteurize away what is happening on a biochemical level to the milk as it is changed/digested by bacteria.

Good milk is the starting point for good cheese.

You can make cheese from standard pasteurized, homogenized grocery store milk.....it just sucks.

[FreeState]

13. Does it?

I havent seen any science that backs that up - in fact I have seen the opposite (not when testing this its important to get the milk from the same dairy etc.) It's all marketing and perception.

https://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/dscisp/33/

The resulting data indicated a significant preference in pasteurized milk cheese over raw milk cheese and a difference in taste as indicated by the triangle test. In conclusion, on the basis of purely sensory attributes, Valley Ford Cheese Company would not suffer a business setback by the conversion of raw milk cheese production to pasteurized milk cheese production and should consider this change.

https://www.mdpi.com/2624-862X/4/1/16

The higher accumulation of FFA in raw-milk cheeses at the end of ripening indicates a higher intensity of lipolysis in these cheeses. However, there were no significant differences in the sensory evaluation of raw and pasteurized milk cheeses. Therefore, pasteurization of the milk does not entail any significant changes to Valdeón cheese, and provides hygienic and sanitary guarantees and greater technological control of the process.

https://www.scielo.br/j/cta/a/TnLZF8jHhRZVVkQNpN5XXjd/?lang=en

In summary, our study assessing the effect of pasteurization on yield of cow’s and goat’s cheese reveals that using pasteurized milk increases yield through an increased moisture content of the cheese. Moreover, goat milk produces higher cheese yield than cow milk, showing higher protein and fat content. These results are of primary important for local and region milk and cheese industry, particularly for goat whose cheese production has received more local attention in recent years. These results show the importance of the techniques used in the dairy industry, in particular, the heat treatment. Raw milk pasteurization has not only a positive effect on cheese yield but also protects consumer following the elimination of pathogenic flora. It can also increase more profits for the farmers following milk transformation and cheese yield increasing.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8498079/

The obtained results showed that the heat treatment of cheese milk significantly reduces bacteria counts and eliminates pathogen bacteria together with many other bacteria. According to the results of sensory evaluation, the raw milk cheese has a better flavor and, also overall acceptance than pasteurized milk cheese. Because E. coli was detected in some samples after 60 days, it is suggested that 60 days is not sufficient to vanish pathogen microflora in raw milk cheese. Therefore, pasteurization of cheese milk is mandatory to ensure its safety. It is also possible to add lactic bacteria to develop and enhance a pleasant Lighvan cheese flavor in the pasteurized cheese.

[Mosby]

15. New Jersey, Iran, Latvia and Spain.

Those are the cheeses in your links, lol.

Most Alpine cheeses are made from unpasteurized milk, cheeses like Sharfe Maxx, Appenzeller, Chällerhocker, Alp Blossom, Gruyère, much of the Raclette cheeses and Emmental . Most are the washed rind variety, and aged for more than 2 months, which makes the cheese safe.

If there is a cheese to avoid, it's queso fresco from Mexico, known vector for listeria. Look it up.

[FreeState]

20. So you have any studies to back up the claims

Or just moving the goal posts with snarky comments?

[Red Mountain]

30. Aged raw milk cheeses are safe

if handled correctly.

Pasteurized milk products are unsafe if handled incorrectly.

Tons of data out there.

[FreeState]

33. Im talking about taste

Not safety.

[Red Mountain]

49. From the last nih.gov article......

According to the results of sensory evaluation, the raw milk cheese has a better flavor and, also overall acceptance than pasteurized milk cheese.

I don't think you can make a traditional aged variety of hard cheese (whatever the milk source) from pasteurized milk and expect it to have the same flavor profile as a raw milk cheese. All those bacteria (good and bad) are DOING things......things that the cheese maker manipulates to produce the various end product cheeses.

[Rebl2]

12. Grandmother

many years ago (1940’s) almost died from drinking raw milk.

[Igel]

18. A lot of "regulation" amounts to or is de jure banning.

Test it, post a warning.

I rather liked it. For months I'd pick up a gallon of raw cow's milk on the way to work (outside all day, 80s-90s, landscaping detail). It was my water, it was my lunch. By quitting time it was gone, but it was ambient temperature by 10 am, in an open garage.

The "hit" of cream at the top of the gallon of milk wasn't a bad start to the day. (I also rather liked making a gallon of yoghurt at a time with it--add some instant milk, culture, let it go, and there'd be a nice layer of quasi-sour cream on the yoghurt.)

Then again, I knew the warnings and was a healthy early-20s post-student. (Later also wound up with farm-fresh goat milk sometimes, but only when the office's church-milk supplier either over delivered or when somebody didn't pick up so I bought what was left Friday afternoon to bail out the co-worker who kept the 'program' going with her own funds.)

[GP6971]

22. Well Hi!! Your late today.

Heavy Traffic?

[Cirsium]

24. Hard to believe

Democrats buying into the right wing anti-regulation propaganda. 20 years ago you would only hear that stuff from fringe people like Ron Paul. Democrats were pretty clear and united on the issue. I think the relentless firehouse of disinformation and de-regulation propaganda from the right wing has affected the thinking of more than just the Republicans or MAGA people.

[Klarkashton]

26. Regulations are essential for a modern civilized society.

There isn't any way out of it. In the case of the sale of products to the public regulations are a serious matter.

These people are senseless dimwits.

[Red Mountain]

31. This is the correct answer

it's not just raw milk. Traceability is the single most important issue with most foods we consume.

If there is a problem the lawyers need to know which door to knock on.

[TommyT139]

37. Spot on.

Great article, which goes into this whole branch of the crazy-train.

Why Are So Many Popular Wellness Influencers Red-Pilled?
Derek Beres, co-author of 'Conspirituality: How New Age Conspiracies Became a Health Threat,' talks the rise of misinfo in self-help spaces.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/conspirituality-wellness-world-red-pilled-1234770419/

No paywall: https://archive.is/OX5DY

[Cirsium]

41. Thanks

Excellent article, well worth the read.

[TommyT139]

27. BIRD FLU.

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned.

As bird flu outbreak expands in California, dairy farms report it’s worse than they expected

CNN, Oct. 8th
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/health/bird-flu-california-dairy-farms/index.html?origin=serp_auto

Current risk to the U.S. public from A(H5N1) viruses is low; however, persons exposed to infected animals or contaminated materials, including raw cow’s milk, are at higher risk and should take precautions and self-monitor for illness.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7321e1.htm (Emphasis added )

Oct 30 (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Agriculture will soon begin testing bulk raw milk across the country for bird flu, a significant expansion of the agency's efforts to stifle the rapid spread of the virus, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack told Reuters.
The move comes after livestock and veterinary groups pushed the USDA to strengthen its current surveillance approach, calling it inadequate to contain the virus, according to state records and industry documents reviewed by Reuters.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-begin-bulk-milk-testing-bird-flu-after-push-industry-2024-10-30/?origin=serp_auto

Currently, H1N1 is not a big risk to humans per se, but left unchecked, could become a big threat.

And from today:
"H5N1 bird flu identified in pig for first time in United States"

H5N1 is a type of influenza that’s rare in humans but is highly contagious and deadly in several species of animals, including poultry and dairy cattle, raising fears that it could mutate and become a virus that preys on people, too.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/30/health/bird-flu-pig-oregon/index.html?origin=serp_auto

Pigs are used for medical research because of similarities with human organs, especially lungs. Besides increasing costs of food in the US, the potentials for mutation -- in an absence or reduction of monitoring -- should terrify anyone who cares about public health.

[Sky Jewels]

35. I know a mom whose daughter is severely and permanently

disabled from drinking one cup of contaminated raw milk when she was a toddler. She suffered brain damage, organ failure, almost died. She can’t walk or talk. It’s beyond tragic.

[Sogo]

38. I grew up on a dairy farm. My parents would never allow us to drink raw milk.

We pasturized our own milk. The main concern was polio.

[jcgoldie]

39. meh

Have a goat farm drink raw milk daily. Sell it. Folks have to come and bring their bottles and I can't advertise. Most of the regulations are just large corporations lobbying at this point.

[Cirsium]

42. Say what?

Most of the regulations are just large corporations lobbying at this point? That is pure right wing hogwash. Shocking to see that here.

Large corporations are lobbying hard to destroy government regulations, and have been for some time.

smh

[jcgoldie]

43. you do not know what you are talking about in this instance

there aren't politics involved just large corporations and small farms.

[Cirsium]

45. Right

My comments are based on my experience working on a small farm. I am exceptionally knowledgeable on this topic.

You say that politics are not involved in the right wing deregulation and privatization effort? Really?

[jcgoldie]

46. prairie farms doesnt want to sell raw milk

They want to restrict the sale. And they drive the legislation. You are ill informed on the topic.

[Cirsium]

47. Seriously?

Our farm would take the same position. We honor and support the regulatory structure and the public health and safety protocols and inspections. It is the responsible thing to do. If a neighbor down the road decides to cut corners and cheat, that is unfair competition. Of course. We are following the rules, they are not. We are serious about public health and safety, they are not.

With the deadly E. Coli strain causing problems with fruit, many of us had to give up selling unpasteurized cider and selling "drops" for juicing. So be it. Did we like that? No. That was a big hit, but public safety comes first.

[kcr]

48. Large corporations lobby for regulations? LOL

Coo coo for cocoapuffs

[Xavier Breath]

40. The only way I'd consider drinking the stuff is if a farmer would serve it to me like this.