What are other people's thoughts on leaving the US?

[RockCreek]

I don't have the energy to stay in this seemingly futile fight here.
Trump 1 + COVID already destroyed a lot of my health.
I don't see anything good that I can do from here while under the direct influence of the constant physical and mental depletion of Trump. 2 and likely CouchFucker #1.
Are there any states or territories in this country where he is not a constant insidious infection? Hawaii? Puerto Rico (if this isn't the final straw for them as to becoming independent)?

[MaryMagdaline]

1. Nope.

I thought of that in 2016. There is no country on the planet where I would want to live that is outside of American protection or influence. Might as well stay here.

[DemonGoddess]

2. Why should I leave?

This is MY home too. If those fucking racist misogynistic bigots can't accept that, that is THEIR problem.

[Andy823]

74. Well said.

I won't be leaving.

[BlueTsunami2018]

3. I don't have the kind of money you need for that.

Not for where I’d like to go anyway.

I don’t know that we’re going to be able to escape this shit no matter where we go. There’s a worldwide trend of rising fascism. It seems inevitable.

[Clouds Passing]

53. It will be the global reign of terror now.

Remember the hostile takeovers of the 80s, just a warm up.

[CrispyQ]

104. I said for awhile that democracy will only be harder & harder to hold onto due to climate chaos.

Now that America is about to topple as one of the gold-star democracies, at least last century we were, I think it will be even easier for other dictators to gain power. IMO, the whole planet's on a downward trajectory.

[onenote]

4. I've seen some posts from folks suggesting they might move to places that are hardly an improvement.

If you're concerned about your rights here, think twice about whether the place you are proposing as a new home protects a woman's right to choose, has free speech protections, allows same sex marriage or criminalizes homosexuality. And remember, you're probably giving up any semblance of a voice in the government of your new home.

[RockCreek]

10. New Zealand, British Columbia, Australia?

Changing citizenship is a lot harder, so I would still have a US vote.
I'm in a profession where moving and working is possible.

[TexLaProgressive]

31. How you gonna get permanent residency?

Most nations don't just hand those out willy nilly.

[Sable302b]

70. I've been working with an immigration attorney

In Canada. It is a process, but definately possible to do.

[mindfulNJ]

90. Same for my husband and I.

I am sad but I don't see this getting better anytime soon. I need some peace in my remaining years.

[RockCreek]

101. I'm in a high demand, huge scarcity profession. That makes it a bit easier.

[TexLaProgressive]

102. I'm retired 10 years, my skillset is obsolete.

[DeepWinter]

72. Yea

I have a good friend who's Mom is German and he applied for his German citizenship a year and a half ago. He's still stuck in the process and seemingly not even close to the end. And he's half German with more of a claim than a complete foreigner. Just shows the US process is not unique.

[Jk23]

76. The US is much easier to immigrate to than other countries. NT

[dameatball]

5. I'm sticking around. Not crazy about sitting in some other country while mine goes to hell.

[SoCalDavidS]

33. This Isn't Your Country Though

It is MAGA Land for years and decades to come. No boundaries for Supreme Court the rest of my lifetime.

[dameatball]

38. Of course it's my country. The political structure has changed but I am still a citizen.

I get where you are coming from but just don't agree. It does suck for the foreseeable future but I'm not going anywhere.

[Prairie Gates]

6. I've wanted to say something about this...thanks for the qustion

I think people have a very deluded idea about how this would work.

I have dual citizenship, speak the language of the other country, have lived there, and have active paperwork. It would still be extraordinarily difficult to emigrate. It would be difficult logistically, emotionally, financially, etc. And we're talking about a country in Western Europe. Once you get into other areas, it gets even harder. Obviously, your mileage will vary - I've seen people say nice things here about being an expat in Costa Rica, etc. But still.

Now, if you don't have citizenship, or speak the language, or have any experience living in this other country, or have any extant and active bureaucratic existence there, then you're really talking about a slog. There's something fundamentally American about thinking that other countries would even want you there, much less a lot of you.

I also think that, at a certain point if there is some exodus and Trump's regime really is fascist, you are not going to be able to leave with your money or property intact. We all know the proverbial story of the doctor in Pakistan who drives a cab in the Bronx. Well, that's going to be you. If you're lucky.

The fantasy needs a reality check.

[RobinA]

123. Yup

People seem to think you just up and move where you want to. Not to anyplace you'd want to go. I researched this just for the hell of it a couple years ago when I decided the place I'd ever been that I felt most at home was Scotland. Without relatives or an in demand job, you ain't permanently going to the UK.

[usedtobedemgurl]

133. Excuse me, but i grew up in Canada....

Nowhere you would want to go? Pray tell why Canada is a shithole you would not want to go to?

[carpetbagger]

138. Many people can't immigrate to Canada.

There's a pretty solid age cliff. I'm past the cliff nearing 55, but can get in easily based on being a doctor and having a Canadian partner who would return if we decided on it.

[usedtobedemgurl]

140. The person i replied to said

That any country you could move to is nowhere you would want to go. I think it is horrible they think so slowly of Canada, my first country. They did not say it would be hard to get into, just no one would WANT to go to. U have seen several folks on this board state they are considering Canada. When my husband's cancer wins, I will move there. I am wondering why that poster feels places like Canada or even England are places people do not want to go to. The person mentioned nothing about money.

[MuseRider]

7. Not going anywhere.

I have spent over 30 years making these acres with my horses and a home and out buildings and I did it myself when every single thing I needed like electricity and water services fought me at every step. Those were the days of, "Who is going to pay for this little lady?" They will have to shoot me to get me to move.

I never have and never will hide myself or who I am. If there is a problem with that so be it. At 70 years old whatever they do to those who won't behave (the usual term for ladies who disagree with the men folk) I bet I can take it.

If I did not have this or if I had not done it all myself we probably would have gone a long time ago.

[MakeBelieve]

121. Well said

Just so you know, we have met before. I used to be on this site a lot, but drifted away due to a bit too much sycophantic behavior. I’d send you a message, but I don’t have enough posts yet. Watch out when I get to 50, and think Crawford.

[Layzeebeaver]

8. Unless you have a lot of money, are still young, or marry a foreigner...

...you're basically stuck. Citizenship and borders keep you both in and out at the same time.

Sure I think Canada may be an option for some - but not for most - it's mainly a fantasy.

I married a woman who is both dutch and English. I have options.

Here in the UK (Thank you BREXIT) its not all that great either.

We could possibly mode to Ireland at some point. Unlikely.

Next step for me is to get my UK citizenship and give up my American passport - that's my last step once there is no hope remaining.

[LakeArenal]

158. Just not true.

Retired to Costa Rica with barely enough to make the minimum $1000 per person.

Sold off 35 years of living in the same home. That auction paid all our moving expenses.

We pay $50 per month for two for health care. $1000 per month for our rental. $50 for two for phone service.
We have no heating costs. Live where we don’t need AC.

We spent COVID quarantine in Paradise.

[Layzeebeaver]

164. ok there may be exceptions

perhaps yours is one

if you feel its OK to do it, then perhaps you can share all the details of your journey and the requirements needed to be met.

Retiring to a country is different from moving to a country when you still need to earn a living.

Let's be specific about Costa Rica... People may be interested. Links and recommendations may be appreciated.

[live love laugh]

9. If you're going GO‼️‼️

[RockCreek]

11. Meaning? Nt

[Ferrets are Cool]

12. Too old and too sick

Even if we had the money, no one wants us.

[OnionPatch]

13. I'm not leaving

Everyone and everything I love is here. We are not alone, we are all still here; good people who care about the world. I think we have to stick together, lick our wounds, then keep fighting the good fight.

One thing though: I may not be thinking of leaving the country but I’m moving from my very red, rural area to a small, blue city nearby. At least I won’t have to live in the middle of a sea of deplorables.

[brush]

15. Thought of it. I'm too old now but I discussed it with my daughter and she is condiering it.

She's an educator with a recent achieved Phd and is thinking maybe Costa Rica where your American dollar goes a long way. She had previously thought about the Middle East as some of the Arab nations are looking for credentialed educators. They have programs where they'll put you up, no expenses hardly and you can bank your very generous salary. She was thinking five or six years there then come back here and be set with a comfortable retirement. She wold also get her retirement benefits too after many years of working here.

That of course is out now because of the war going on there in Gaza and Lebanon with potential for it to widen even more.

I reminded her that her mother and i had ventured to Rosarita, Mexico south of Tijuana on the Baja peninsula several years ago, thinking about relocating to the American ex-pat community there. We traveled there. We looked at condos, but the RE person did warn us that we'd have to hire security as bandits there prey on ex-pats. So that was out. My wife, a native New Yorker, wasn't comfortable anyway with the overall lack of amenities in the development of the small town there, including healthcare which one has to think about.

My daughter then mentioned there is a huge American ex-pat community in Guadalajara, Mexico, a big, highly developed city, deep into Mexico and with no bandit problem.

One other thing to note. Mexico just elected a woman president, a Jewish woman at that. Add Mexico to the list of other enlightened, non-misogynistic nations like the UK, India, Israel, Gemany, New Zealand and others that have elected women PMs/presidents.

[Elessar Zappa]

22. Arab nations are worse than the US.

They all have dictators, terrible misogyny, and Islamic based laws (most of them).

[brush]

35. Do tell. Most knowledgeable, western people know that. But my daughter's plan was as I wrote...

tolerate it for a few years, rack up and mazimize savings then get out.

There was no romanticization of Arab culture. It was to use the programs and get out.

[Elessar Zappa]

37. Ok, got it.

[brush]

110. Re-read the reason of living in a Arab country for a few years.

It was to take advantage of a no expense opportunity, maximize savings, the move back to the US all set for a comfortable retirement. Most know of the extreme misogyny in Arab societies.
She was prepared to tolerate it for a few years to accomplish her goal.

Others may have different goals and levels of tolerance. The wars going on in that region of course rule it out.

[LeftInTX]

94. Mexico is messed up

They ff'd up their federal court system and messed up their constitution. This reduces any checks and balances.

Also their president sounds like a Soviet. She wants Mexico to go back to eating beans, tortillas and instant coffee. (No more ground coffee)

[brush]

105. All that sounds like great reasons for an ex-pat American to be concerned (not).

[LeftInTX]

113. The Supreme Court will always be the ruling party

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-supreme-court-judges-resign-judicial-elections-9d7c8b8586c3729c0d23a0b90e2ea7bc

Same with the rest of the federal courts. Elected like the way Texas elects judges

[brush]

116. My response is the same. Ex-pat Americans don't run Mexican affairs.

[LeftInTX]

118. By leaving a country & joining another, you are part

Unless, it's some sort of extended stay?
Isn't the purpose to leave and enjoin the politics of another?

You can rent in Mexico w/o being a citizen, but you pretty much need to be to own property.

[brush]

122. And to vote there one needs to be a citizen. Mayve it's important to some...

not to others.

[bdamomma]

96. this sentence

Add Mexico to the list of other enlightened, non-misogynistic nations like the UK, India, Israel, Gemany, New Zealand and others that have elected women PMs/presidents.

Geez, I wish we grow the fuck up!!!!!

[LeftInTX]

115. Not is all paradise

Look at Pakistan. They elected a woman.

[mnhtnbb]

128. I have a friend from high school

a retired pediatrician, who bought a house near Lake Chapala (not far from Guadalajara) with his wife a couple of years ago. Last year they sold their home in Gig Harbor, WA, and moved to live full time in Mexico. They love it. There are probably 10,000+ ex pats in the area.

[brush]

129. Thanks. That's encouraging.

[RockCreek]

16. Thank you for all of your thoughts on this.

Many are very, very helpful either to me or and/or to others who may have had thoughts on similar lines.

[RockCreek]

17. That said, response posts such as #14 aboce

Are highly obnoxious and immature.
Much more what I would expect on a MAGAt forum than on DU.

[RockCreek]

18. Please report #14.

You can only report one at a time, and mine is in use.
And I think that was only the second time I have reported in almost 7 years on DU !

[ananda]

19. Can't do it.

I don't have enough money, for one thing.

Also, my physical problems make in impossible
as well, and I have family here.

I guess I just have to tough it out and wear my
blue paperclip.

I might also indulge in episodes of I Told You So
when people who voted for Trump have to face
so many horrible realities directly.

There is a lot of magical thinking among Trump
supporters these days.

[RockCreek]

24. Thank you for a civil and thoughtful response. N/t.

[misanthrope]

107. Please tell me more about this series you mention

"I Told You So"?

[ananda]

131. LOL. I meant sequence or succession.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Elessar Zappa]

20. I can't.

I’m disabled and (understandably) no country would take me because I’d have to be covered in their safety net. They want skilled workers and retirees who can support themselves. Plus, this is my home. I’d have to think hard before leaving it, even though I love Canada and the UK especially. If I ever had to flee this country quickly, I’d probably go to Mexico.

[orangecrush]

21. If I could I'd be packing for Canada right now

[Ping Tung]

23. I'm hoping that Canada would adopt the American west coast and make Baja Canada.

[brush]

42. Now that's an idea. Pls include NV where I live.

[RockCreek]

44. And perhaps at least a part of New England? N/t

[sarisataka]

25. I am not in the habit of running away

I don't feel the need to start now

[Mariana]

89. Most of my ancestors left their respective countries of origin.

I don't hold it against them.

[RockCreek]

148. I'd like to give this a thousand recs!!!

Reality check for almost all DUers ...

[mucifer]

26. Doesn't look like they need hospice nurses in Toronto where I have a friend. So I'll stay here

[o7___o7]

27. Well, you know how there's no Planet B?

There's no Home B, either.

Also, I gotta stand up for my homies.

Plus, those other guys are the ones who suck, maybe they should leave!

[RockCreek]

45. I so wish they would

And I would be all for either states splitting off, or a union in name only (UINO). A UINO would not involve any money being redistributed among states. I am sick of subsidizing racist, sexist and fascist (want-to-be) areas.

[VMA131Marine]

28. I'm a dual citizen with the UK

having been born there. I still have family there so I could move back if things got bad enough. I’d probably be able to keep my job too since I work for an international company. Do I want to move back? Not really! But it is an option.

[RockCreek]

46. Woukd pothet commonwealth counties

Be easy options for you? Just curious, not necessarily suggesting it.

[VMA131Marine]

51. I don't think other Commonwealth countries would be an option

The Commonwealth is a very loose association and it’s not at all like the EU where if you are a citizen of one country you can live and work in any of the other ones. Of course, Britain had that until the stupidity of Brexit took it away.

[Luciferous]

75. My husband also has dual citizenship

so the UK is a possibility but honestly I don't think that things are much better there at this point. We're currently in Wisconsin and are thinking that a better option would be to move to a blue state.

[VMA131Marine]

77. I'm in New England: Connecticut

Love it here.

[Luciferous]

80. My husband used to live on the

East Coast and would love to live there again. It's definitely on the list.

[Freddie]

29. No other country will have me

I’m retired, and certainly not wealthy.
My daughter, an RN, would probably be welcome anywhere. I hope she’s considering it. I’ll visit often.

[emulatorloo]

30. I'm not leaving. I'll stay and do what I can to fight back.

[GaYellowDawg]

32. I'd love to move to New Zealand.

But it's financially impossible.

[wryter2000]

61. They didn't used to accept people

Unless you were born there or married a Kiwi.

[misanthrope]

141. My understanding is that oligarchs have been quietly purchasing NZ property

as a retreat from the worst aspects of climate change.

[pfitz59]

34. I live in a very blue state

with a strong economy and stunning natural beauty. Not going anywhere. But if the things go south, I have an escape hatch. Leaving the country is an option, but why should I? This is MY country. Just because the orange maggot slimed his way back into the 'People's House' doesn't mean it's over. It's only 4 years. The actuaries say I have another 30 years in me. GOP regimes tend to self-destruct due to incompetence and in-fighting. Remember, they are a cabal of super rich guys tied to a cadre of deranged Christian dominionists, racists and flat-out nutters. And their leader is a moronic narcissist. In 4 years, the masses will be begging the Dems to come back and fix the mess. We always do. Patience plus preparation. Build toward 2026 and beyond.

[Artistree22]

86. Blue state options

I'm seriously thinking of leaving Texas to Colorado or New Mexico. I still believe in the foundations and possibilities of this country. I really appreciate your comments on their ineptitude of his party. Many of his voters did not vote for a religious state. I'm looking forward to the infighting amongst the fake religious leaders.

[RobinA]

127. Be Careful

what blue state you pick. I live in ex-supposedly-blue PA, so things can change! Truthfully, I never thought of PA as blue, I've always thought of it as a red state the not infrequently gets turned blue by Philadelphia if enough people turn out.

[dickthegrouch]

151. Only 4 years???

It will take decades to repair the damage. Especially if 9 incompetent R 20-somethings get nominated for SCROTUS.
If I were Joe, I’d nominate a ton of dem 20-something to every vacancy.

[GoCubsGo]

36. I couldn't leave if I wanted to.

Can't afford to. That being said, this is still my fucking country, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let those sons of bitches run me out of it. Fuck the lot of them.

[Johnny2X2X]

39. Most people don't have the means to leave

I am staying, but I have the meas to leave and if things start to look too fascist, to the point where they're rounding up liberals, I will leave.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

40. No plans

to cut and run.

[WSHazel]

41. America's future could be a little rocky

Trump is obviously a problem, but the other problem is that the deficit and the national debt are not going away. There is going to be a reckoning soon on this. I can predict what will happen, and other people a lot smarter than me can predict what will happen, and maybe one of us will be right in our prediction, but something is going to happen.

There is not some special rule somewhere that says Americans can live beyond our means indefinitely. There was a risk that this reckoning was going to happen under Harris, but Trump's radical trade policies significant increase the chance of some kind of event that would force America to at least balance its federal budget, which is going to be very disruptive to everyone's lives when it happens.

[RockCreek]

47. Please consider making this its own post

If it's not already. What you are saying is too important to be way diwn on a thread.

[cachukis]

43. People are generally good. We have a lot more in

common than not.
Many are not deep thinkers. Luck of the draw as to their background. Their world view is how they apply their decision making progress.
We have an education system extremely unfit for our population. We have adults, unable, due to their own education perhaps, to acknowledge the changing of our society.
In 1964, there were 191 million of us.
Today there are 330 million. Nearly double.
We have moved at breakneck speed from an analog world to a digital one.
We are not going back to cursive letter writing.
It is up to us to bring our American partners up to understand the world around them.
People are on pins and needles in need of calm.
We are not going to get out of this chasm berating them.
They have become conditioned to expect quick answers that satisfy their world view.
If we can't expose them to the shortcomings of shallowness, we will sink deeper into the chasm.
This is not something we can run away from.
Ask people why they think the way they do and help them see beyond the frame of the picture they live in.
They have to be taught to see. Very tough with post pubescents, so we should concentrate on the youngsters.
Going to be tough with the Moms for Liberty crowd, but if it doesn't happen, the divide continues.
Teach your children well.

[RockCreek]

48. This is really beautiful.

I hope you and many others can do it.
(I am, frankly, depleted.).

[cachukis]

49. We travel the country, a lot.

I converse with locals about fixing a tire rim, farming hay because the wells don't produce enough water for a beef herd.
Dairy farmers working with Co ops to keep us in cheese and yogurt.
Many of the people in rural America are desperate for understanding what really happens outside their world.
I've presented real documentation on climate change to deniers who were completely in the dark.
I've shown maps of states where abortion is impossible or extremely restricted. One woman told me she didn't believe the map. It was from Pew. The following day she said she had no idea that someone from Florida would have to drive a thousand miles if she could afford it.
Our country is filled with uninformed and misinformed citizens.
Bullet points and slogans are shallow.
Do we want to be a slogan world?
MAGA vs We're Not Going Back?
Right now MAGA is winning because it has been around for 10 years.
The people who voted for him are thrilled. They will stay so as long as they see it in their frame of reference.
Things change for people when the 2×4 knocks sense into them. Perhaps we can use a ruler and explain to them how following the rules is better in the long run.

[valleyrogue]

50. I can't afford to. The US is still a great, great country.

There is a lot to see and do that is not available in other countries. There is a reason millions of people never go outside the US. We have it all here.

The politics stink currently, but the country with all its natural beauty, is great.

I also am not a quitter. Don't think for a minute the rightward political drift is limited to the US.

[Polly Hennessey]

52. No. This country has been through more turmoil than not. I am an American

and would never abandon my country. All of my male relatives fought in wars, I would not dishonor them.

[Silent Type]

54. 99+% of people saying that now will still be here in 2028, thankfully.

[CanonRay]

55. Waiting on my Italian citizenship.

I'm too depressed right now to make big decisions.

[Corgigal]

56. If any show trials start.

I don’t have the heart to watch it, and it will kills me.

We have enough to find somewhere, but will we be allowed in? Do we even deserve it ?

[Eddie18]

57. Left Coast

I live in Western Washington and Trump never comes here. Our government is Democratic, we offer abortion care, and I overlook Puget Sound as I write this.

Canada is less than a 2-hour drive with British Columbia and its beauty.

Housing isn't cheap here, however, but our legal pot and best-in-class brew pubs help. Nirvana best describes us. Like Oregon and California, MAGAts live in the eastern part and stay away.

Mild winters with rain and great dry summers.

[Danmel]

58. I could get Polish citizenship

Because my father was a Polish citizen who was deported to Auschwitz. I guess it's an apology of sorts. Of course my entire family, other than my dad and uncle were killed, so I have no one there. And we don't speak Polish. And there are maybe 25,000 Jews living there now out of a population of 38 million.
I'm very worried about what might happen here, but I don't want to be chased out of my home.

[LeftInTX]

120. I can get Armenian citizenship

They're under Putin's influence.

[Farmgirl1961]

59. We are working on a plan

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2024, 07:56 PM - Edit history (1)

My feeling is to have an option at the ready. So we are exploring ideas and planning a recon trip early next year. For us, it will take time and we know that no place is perfect. We we are looking at geting the pensionado visa for Panama. My husband has Irish citizenship so that’s an open option for us, but kind of further away than we want. I have very mixed feelings about it all. I love Oregon and in general love this country -- but not at this exact moment. I like the idea of having a back-up plan or an "escape" plan -- even if I don't ever use it. Perhaps it comes from watching The Sound of Music too many times. Perhaps it comes from knowing that many, many, many of my ancestors were murdered in the Holocaust. Perhaps it's some kind of survivalist mechanism kicking in.

[mnhtnbb]

134. My husband and I obtained permanent resident visas

in Panama in 2005, when we were in fear of Bush's second administration. If you go to look at Panama, I can recommend an attorney in Panama City to work with on immigration.
See my post #128 about a friend who is living near Lake Chapala in Mexico.

[RockCreek]

146. Thank you!

I will be saving this.

[Farmgirl1961]

154. So do you live there or did you obtain the the permanent resident visas more for an "escape" option?

Actually we'll be meeting with someone in a couple of weeks to discuss more in details. We live in Oregon and love the PNW. I feel a compelling need to have an option at the ready, in the event things just get so bad that I feel like I'm constantly living under a dark, black cloud. I live in Central Oregon which is kind of the dividing line....there are progressives and there are MAGAs. I worry (already) about my ability to speak freely. I worry about my daughters and their freedoms. I worry about the lack of free press and all of the implications of Project 2025.

[mnhtnbb]

157. It was an escape option

We never lived there. It was in a resort being built in Bocas del Toro area in the Caribbean side. We planned to vacation there maybe once/year and it would be available to rent for short periods of time through the resort.

[wryter2000]

60. I'd have to leave Oakland

Not doing it.

[LeftInTX]

98. Yeah I'm stuck in San Antonio

Keep San Antonio lame!

[ms liberty]

62. I would love to but I'm stuck for the next year or two or eight

I've just taken custody of my great neice, who's ten. If I wanted to leave and was ready to go today, I couldn't because the court would not permit it at this point.
I'm in NC, which is my one feeling of relief in this mess, since we elected Stein and Dems.

[RockCreek]

65. And there are some wonderful places in NC

Best of luck to you.

[Traildogbob]

111. And. Virginia Fox!

Still pretty sick The fat killer preacher got 40+ percent of the vote.
We will never lose the stench of Meadows and Cawthorn.
I can’t afford to leave. I have a little bit of VA benefits, my SS and a retirement of minimal help.
All that is at risk here. Or even worse where ever I could move to.
My military disability will not allow me to work, so what damn country wants that.
Nope, gonna stay right here on the little piece of dirt I scratched out and protect it
Keep my ammo dry, guns near, and fight like hell if it comes to it. At least bleed out on what I spent a life to get, as little as it is. It’s paid for.
Besides, I wanna be in person when I laugh when Florida and Texas wipe out its on Existence.
Shit that’s coming will not give a fuck if ya got a red hat or not.
I wanna see it up close when they lose it all in a state of shock.
Fuck em all. Burn it down. All those ignorant gun slingers will go after those rich mother fuckers that lit the fire.
That could be entertaining.
How cool would it be to see the whole fucking trump family running like Hawley. From MAGA’s?

[bif]

63. I'm thinking either Canada or England.

I have enough money to do it. Canada would be way easier for several reasons. Mainly because I live in Detroit and it's a 10 minute car ride across the border. My one daughter and her kids live here so that would make the most sense. But I'm a lifelong Anglophile, so I'd love to move to England. We'll have to see. Not going to rush into anything.

[Deep State Witch]

64. I am looking into it

The problem is, with EU countries, you have a minimum salary requirement, or have to purchase property valued at a minimum of 250,000 Euros. Even Portugal's digital nomad visa has a minimum salary requirement. Some countries, like Germany or Austria, have a language requirement as well. Greece is doable, but again, you have to purchase property in the country. While you can get property outside of the more populated areas pretty inexpensively, it's harder to find something in Athens or Thessaloniki, let alone popular places like Mykonos or Santorini.

I would love to move to Italy, but they have their own fascist president right now, and they're hostile to LGBTQ+ people in areas outside of the big cities. (I'm not LGBTQ+, but if they don't like gay people, they aren't going to like Witches.) I have Croatian heritage on my mother's side, so I may look into that. Unfortunately, my German ancestors came from the A-H Empire. I've been following the struggles that people are facing trying to get German and Austrian permanent residency. My husband's German ancestors have been here since 1848, so I don't think that's going to get us anything in Germany, either. All of his other ancestors have been here since before the American Revolution.

I have a friend who got permanent residency in Montenegro and loves it. It's not without it's challenges, though. I also have friends who are expats in Costa Rica and love it. Belize might be an option, too. Plus, I understand that there are large numbers of American expats in certain parts of Mexico.

[RockCreek]

66. Thank you for the great summary

On some of the requirements for European countries.

[Deep State Witch]

68. I just read about it yesterday

So it's still in what passes for my short-term memory these days.

[milestogo]

67. My first question is what about health care?

Now that I am getting older and having more health issues, this would be the main thing I would worry about in moving overseas. I don't think Medicare pays out of country, and I don't know how much it costs to get health care in a country where you are not a citizen. Also, I'd want to get the same quality of care. If I could get past this one then I could consider the rest of the issues.

[Sneederbunk]

69. Get real, people.

[BluenFLA]

71. Canada is under threat by its own right wingers

They may get elected next time and you could wind up in the same situation. Plus it's expensive in Canada, and 🥶

[RockCreek]

97. Is there more autonomy between Provinces in Canada than between States in the US? N/t

[NEOH]

73. No, staying in the USA.

No, staying in the USA. However, maybe move to a blue state. We’re thinking Vermont.

[kwolf68]

78. Under consideration in our household

We've already been in contact with immigration lawyers in Scotland. How far my wife and I take this is TBD. She is more into going, but I am not really a quitter, and I want to be here to gloat when TMF burns shit down. And also be there when we rebuild it.

[CousinIT]

79. And go...where? n/t

[Freethinker65]

81. I hope to travel out of the country more.

If I find a suitable place, I would consider moving out of the country. I have some financial means but am older and realistically not prepared to learn a new language so options would be very limited.

[Ocelot II]

82. Things are getting ugly elsewhere, too.

I was in a Zoom class this morning in which one of the students is an American currently working in Germany. She said things are getting bad there too because of their own immigration issues (it's a big deal for European right-wingers). Even though most of Europe is in the Schengen area, which supposedly guarantees unrestricted travel across borders, people are being stopped and their cars searched. And now with Trump's election they are very afraid that the Ukraine war will spread across Europe. "It's bad," she said.

There might be safe places somewhere in the world but it's hard to emigrate to another country anyhow unless you have a lot of money, a close relative or a needed job skill.

[Bonx]

83. I'm headed for Costa Rica

But will be back in two weeks with a tan.

[mymomwasright]

84. Always fight the fascists!

Don't be swayed!

[da svenster]

85. thinking about it...

but due to health related issues with my wife, this isn't an option for the next year or two.

i hear australia is very open to immigration.

[Native]

87. I have dual citizenship with Ireland, so I can easily move along with my family to any country in the EU, and it is

certainly an option for me that I am keeping open. I want to be close to my family here, but I also don't want to die before my time because of Trump. My concern is that if he installs Lapado (our state's surgeon general) as the U.S. Surgeon General, we are fucked if there is another pandemic. And if the economy goes to shit, I may move simply to survive financially. I love America and all it strives to stand for, but I'm not going to go down with it.

[Farmgirl1961]

162. I think that's where I'm at....

Thus the desire to have a plan...even if I never use it. My husband has dual citizenship (US/Irish) and we've been to Ireland a few times. So, we certainly could make a dash for it, if we absolutely felt like there was no other option. And knowing we have that option does bring reassurance.

[Native]

163. And if Ireland doesn't float your boat, you've got the rest of the EU!

[Farmgirl1961]

166. Yes - in that respect we are very fortunate n/t

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

88. Nowhere to go. I'll die here one way or the other.

[keep_left]

91. Many countries have an emigration fast track via...

..."buying your way in", more or less. I know that Canada does this. However, one must usually be importing a going-concern functioning business into Canada to really make it work. Otherwise, there are a lot of rules and requirements about investors and financing. Ireland also has an emigration fast track based on family lineage.

https://democraticunderground.com/100219670010#post86

[Happy Hoosier]

92. I'm old(ish). I'm staying, at least for now, but....

.... my 22 YO daughter is seriously considering relocating, either Canada or the UK. She's actively started looking at options. What she literally said to me "I think I may have to leave Gilead before it's too late."

[Florida Dem]

93. Was Already Planning To Go

I recently hit Social Security age and I was planning to be an expat within a few years. I am obligated to stay here for now due to an elderly parent who who needs my assistance. Economic factors, my sense of adventure and wanderlust were the primary reasons for my decision. Getting away from the toxic politics is a nice side benefit though. Here are my thoughts on some of the posts that I've seen in this thread:

1. A lot of posts claim it is not financially feasible to leave the country. But actually, the cost of living is substantially lower in most of the countries that I am considering. And no, I'm not lugging all of my worldly possessions with me. So the cost of moving is not that significant.

2. Also, some posts state that other countries don't want you if you're old and retired. That is just incorrect. All of the countries that I am considering have a "retirement" visa and the income requirements are minimal. Yes, you will have to jump through some hoops with documentation to prove your retirement income and clean police record, etc.

3. It is not extraordinarily difficult to move and acquire residency in many countries around the world as some posters on here have incorrectly claimed. I am speaking more about retirement visas than the other types of visas such as digital nomads, etc. Although most of the countries have those other avenues available as well. You don't need to change your citizenship and there is not really a compelling reason to do so.

4. I strongly disagree that deciding to move abroad in to live out your remaining years is "abandoning" the United States. I will still be paying U.S. taxes and maintaining my us passport. I will also continue to have other connections to the U.S. including family and financial.

5. You can receive excellent healthcare in many other countries. Even though some of the countries I am considering are not really known as first world countries (Panama, Thailand, Costa Rica, Portugal, and Spain). You will have to consider your health insurance options. I am planning to maintain my current insurance as a federal retiree. It is a little bit clunky in that I need to pay the cost in the other country and get reimbursed after the fact. But that is okay. I have already experienced this during a recent trip to Thailand where I was fully reimbursed by Blue Cross.

This decision is really personal. It really depends on your particular preferences and situation. As I said earlier, I have a strong sense of adventure and like to experience other cultures. I also speak basic functional Spanish although I am not fully fluent. I absolutely get that it is difficult for some people to break out of their comfort zone and make such a large change in their life. And I acknowledge that there are definite advantages to living in the United States. It is all a matter of your personal priorities.

I am unattached and I had already made this decision prior our strong right turn into fascism. I'm not saying that deciding to move to a foreign country solely due to the horrific political developments over the past few days is a good idea. I think you should take a more comprehensive approach to the decision. I just wanted to dispel some of what I considered to be misleading claims that I saw in this thread.

[RockCreek]

99. This is an excellent summary

Please consider posting as it's own thread. It shouldn't get lost in this chain.

[Native]

126. Great post, great points. Thanks!

[groundloop]

135. An acquaintance moved to Portugal a few years ago and loves it......

He obtained permanent resident status (hopefully I'm using the correct term), and has maintained his US citizenship.

I've briefly looked into the process of moving permanently for several different countries as a retiree, mostly as a matter of curiosity. Some I looked at would have been nearly impossible, while others would be doable (with a few hoops to jump through).

[beaglelover]

95. Nope, I'm staying put. Sure this country has its issues, but it's still the best country in the World with the most

freedom for its citizens. We traveled to France and Spain in September. Great countries, but I was very glad to get back to the USA at the end of our trip.

[LeftInTX]

100. Not leaving

[misanthrope]

103. I would but I can't. I am disabled and no one will have me.

I am early on the authoritarian chopping block as a "useless eater."

[RockCreek]

143. Canada reportedly is trying to become more open to disabled immigrants.

I don't know any details. I just read that they realized that this discrimination was not consistent with their ethics. Again, I know no details or if it will have any practical consequences. However, it may be worth looking into at some point, for someone reading this thread.

[misanthrope]

144. Thanks!

Although I wonder if they would be willing to take in someone who would have to go on government healthcare as soon as they arrived and could never contribute what they pull from it. My annual medications run well over $150,000 annually were they out-of-pocket.

[walkingman]

106. We daydream about just leaving Texas - age, family, and health are our main obstacles. It sucks.

[Ursus Rex]

108. I don't exactly blame people who do leave ...

.. but it requires some combination of money, background, and ability (in the sense of being physically healthy and able, at the least). Also, it reeks of walking away from a problem and expecting someone to clean it up, maybe even to the point that it'll be nice enough to come back some day.

[iemanja]

109. You need A LOT of money to move

Countries don't just take you. Canada in particular requires that you have a lot of money to immigrate.

As for me, I'm not letting Trump drive me out of my country.

[Disaffected]

159. You don't need "a lot of money to immigrate" to Canada.

Just enough to support yourself (and family) for a while or be sponsored by relatives here. It ain't easy though none-the-less. A points system is used taking into account education, work experience, age, language capabilities, current demand for your employment skills etc. Have enough points and you get permanent residency status, otherwise no go.

Canada has furthermore recently reduced immigration quotas by 20% mainly because of lack of available affordable housing (and no, Canada has not "closed its borders" as the Mango Menace recently claimed).

[Skittles]

112. I would never abandon my country to fascism

but that's the way it always is - some cut and run, others stay and do the fighting

[RockCreek]

145. 6 million jew may have wished they left,

6 million jew may have wished they left, or that they had even had the option to do so, In Europe less than 100 years ago. To be clear however, the vast majority had no option to leave.
And there were also millions of other non- combatants who were killed.
Choosing to stay is a valid choice.
Recognizing when it is futile to stay if one wants to live, or when the costs of staying are much too high, are ALSO valid choices.

[Skittles]

150. WHATEVER

I WILL STAY AND FIGHT

and my mum was never an American citizen so I COULD take the easy way out BUT I WILL NOT

[Farmgirl1961]

155. Thank you for that... I sometimes wonder if I have my ancestors' blood in me... You see

I recently learned that numerous members of my lineage were murdered in the Holocaust. I'm 99.7% Ashkanazi Jewish and most of my ancestors came from Poland. I have always had this need to have a "plan" just in case -- almost like an "escape plan" to prepare for a Worst Case Scenario. As well, I am a planner and spent my entire life in the environmental regulatory profession and we often had to deal with WCS issues. So, while I live in a blue state, I'm an older white woman and perhaps my biggest personal fears on the horizon are Medicare and social security, I still worry immensely about personal freedoms, freedom of speech, of the press and how oppressive all of that feels.

[RockCreek]

161. I grew up in a town with many holocaust survivirs

I think it affected me in many similar ways.
I have one Jewish parent, and one non- Jewish. I also grew up questioning what I might have done in any variation of tha many choices people had related to the Nazis, Judaism, etc in the 1930s and 40s. Sometimes the choice was merely how to react when there were no choices.

[Mariana]

147. A lot of my ancestors "cut and ran" from their countries of origin.

I don't look down on them for it.

[RubyRose]

114. I'm not leaving.

[Jason1961]

117. What are other people's thoughts on leaving the US?

I can understand why some people would want to get their families out of the US for the time being

Those of us who can though, need to stay and fight

As a straight white male I don't feel I should run but I should stand and fight back to protect POC and those who can't protect themselves from what Trump is about to do

[JCMach1]

119. I did it (work in Dubai) after 2002 and stayed for 12 years

Eventually came back here.

I regret nothing. Even though it was a dictatorship, the opportunities there far exceeded the USA.

[LeftInTX]

125. My sister lives in Qatar

She likes it. But yeah, not for me.

[bluestarone]

124. THAT thought never entered my mind. This is MY country my families country All Americans country

My last breath will be in THIS country keeping our democracy if needed!! That i promise!

[Redleg]

130. It would have to get really bad here for me to consider leaving

I am 7 years from retirement and have kids in college. I can't imagine leaving them. My son has been wanting to live in Europe, most likely Spain, but that was even before the election. Perhaps I can move in with him when he does.

On the other hand, I don't like giving up so long as there is even a slim chance at success. At this moment, I am disgusted and disheartened that so many voters chose the criminal con-artist. I still need to process all this shit.

[Hekate]

132. Nope. Live in California, own home, too old to be wanted, but most important of all...

OUR KIDS & GRANDKIDS AREN’T GOING ANYWHERE

That is the long and short of it.

[mnhtnbb]

136. My husband and I went through

the process of setting up an escape hatch in Panama in 2005 during Bush's second administration. We had permanent resident visas stamped in our US passports. It was not a difficult process at the time and there are lots of expats in Panama. We eventually sold the property we had bought after Obama was elected and never moved there.
In 2016, anticipating a possible Trump win, we looked at Bonaire, off the coast of South America. We have friends who have lived there for 25 years, so an easy introduction to a small community of ex pats there. My husband nixed the idea.
After my husband died in 2018, I was thinking about France and making a look see trip there, but didn't want to leave my elderly dog for 6 months. I have friends in France, and was focused on the idea of taking an apartment for several months in Lyon to try it out. Before I could do it, Covid hit (I happened to be on Bonaire at the time and managed to get home before the airport was closed, or I'd probably have ended up there!).
When Covid hit I no longer felt safe in my downtown Raleigh high rise apartment (which I loved) and bought a house to be built in Durham. Moved in Jan 6th, 2021.
So, I'm now 73 and I don't have the energy to relocate abroad on my own. Both my sons are gay in long term relationships and live within 20 minutes of me. I plan to discuss the idea of them getting out at Thanksgiving. My oldest son works for an international IT company that has an office in Toronto. They could probably go to Canada. If they did, I would seriously consider going with them. My younger son's partner is a tenured associate professor at UNC Chapel Hill. I do not know what options he might have in other countries. They have traveled together extensively, but I don't know how easy it would be for them to get work in another country. My son is legally blind and writes/produces his own podcast, which he could do anywhere. I've encouraged him to look into narrating books, which he also could do anywhere.
I'm in a deep blue section of NC--Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill --and we just elected a new Dem Governor, Lt Governor, Attorney General, Sec of State, and Sup of Public Education, as well as broke the Republican super majority of State House/Senate. So I do feel somewhat comfortable staying here for now.

[EnergizedLib]

137. You can leave for another country

But you’d also help ensure your old one won’t come back.

[The Wandering Harper]

139. must be nice to be wealthy

[Jmb 4 Harris-Walz]

142. We need to stay and fight to take back our country in 2026 and especially 2028. Not going anywhere!

[ecstatic]

149. I'd love to be sponsored.

Are there any attractive countries with a generous immigration policy?

[MustLoveBeagles]

152. Hubby and I are considering it

We have family in Germany.

[ChicagoRonin]

153. Laying groundwork for Japan

Thinking of Japan and am going to start laying down the groundwork. I do have some advantages others wouldn't: of Japanese descent, speak the language, lived there as a student, have professional and personal contacts already. It's not a perfect country, and a little nervous since my wife is not East Asian and we have a mixed son. But at least we'd had reliable government-sponsored healthcare and education, and a robust public transportation system to use.

In the end, no place on earth will be completely safe from whatever form of authoritarianism springs up in the U.S., plus other countries falling into ruin. Not to mention climate change. But I'd much rather have my family take their chances there.

[fierywoman]

156. Have you ever lived abroad? Lived, not vacationed for a few weeks or even months. I have--

4 years in Mexico City, 1 year in Firenze (Florence), 7 years in Venezia (Venice) (I worked as an orchestral musician in orchestras in those cities.) While I loved the experience (and I was less than half the age I am now), and I learned two new languages, (and did three years of psychotherapy in Italian!), living in a foreign country isn't like living in the US minus the stuff you don't like about the US at the moment. Example: Italy is w-a--y more fascist than the US, Mexico, when I lived there (late 70s-early 80s) was a one-party rule (and all that that means ...) place. Italian (the language) doesn't have a word for "freedom" -- there's a word for "liberty" but not "freedom ; chew on that one for a moment.

[RockCreek]

160. I've lived in several other countries for significant amounts of time

They all have serious problems, and adjustments to the different mindsets and world views are very hard. It is extremely difficult unless, perhaps, one has been brought up in each country in question or has parents from there. Absolutely not an "easy" out. Unless- perhaps - one lives in expat communities. I have no experience of those.

[gopiscrap]

167. I was born in Germany lived there for my first 3 years

then a year ech in France and Pakistan then 6 more years in Germany As an adult I taught English and religion in a Lutheran Middle School in Yuen Long Hong Kong

[Tribetime]

165. Can't afford it