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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe DNC blew it. Here's how and why.
First, we love Joe, and his 2020 win was fabulous. But he should have announced a year or two ago that he would not seek a second term.
Second, the DNC should have had the data that the country isn't ready for a woman as president. India, Pakistan, New Zealand, and most others have elected female presidents decades ago, but the US is clearly not there yet.
Third, don't nominate a woman from California, a state we have in the bag, who can be tied to the low popularity ratings of Joe Biden--unfair but true--and to the Biden administration and the border, inflation, etc.
Fourth, nominate people who have no direct ties to DC or the Biden administration. (See above.)
Fifth, choose a ticket of governors from battleground states: Josh Shapiro (PA), Gretchen Whitmer (MI), Tim Walz (MN). And, of course, Whitmer could not lead the ticket because, well, she's a woman. So we might have had a Shapiro-Walz ticket, a Walz-Shapiro ticket, a Shapiro-Whitmer ticket, or a Walz-Whitmer ticket. It appears we could have won with any of those tickets, although I might have gone Shapiro-Whitmer with Shapiro-Walz a close second.
I've never been especially politcally active, but I have paid attention. And I am shocked that the outspoken and vastly experienced James Carville and the leaders of the DNC, the Obamas and so on, weren't able to have plans in place to make sure the Democrats won the most vital election since at least the Civil War. It should have been possible to run a broomstick and a skateboard and beat the worst ticket in the history of American presidential politics, but that's disregarding the reality of the MAGA cult. We knew the opponent. We knew Trump was right when he said he could do literally anything and he'd still get nearly half the country to vote for him. So when you know that, you have to develop the strategy to counter it. Nominating a black woman who was part of the unpopular incumbent administration and from California made no sense in that context, despite the fact Kamala--on her own--was a fabulous candidate and would have made a wonderful president.
Anyway, instead of getting it right and saving our democracy, we now have the greatest fight on our hands since the Civil War, with no end in sight. At least, that's how I see it.
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bucolic_frolic
(47,604 posts)need a left hand man. By that I mean someone who questions everything they do, to make the counter-arguments, to look for what can go wrong, to ferret out unseen possibilities, consequences.
Because all of what you say makes sense. In the aftermath.
underpants
(187,361 posts)If WE passed on her because she’s a woman and of color the Democratic would no longer exist anywhere near where we know it.
dsp3000
(647 posts)underpants
(187,361 posts)Plus Joe was a fundraising champ and unfortunately we base all our decisions on that. For 100 das it was a great campaign. I was amazed at what they did so quickly. It didn’t seem like the approach that Joe would have had planned.
In It to Win It
(9,765 posts)When I voted for him in 2020, I didn't think he would run in 2024. I thought we would have went into 2024 with someone else.
GreenWave
(9,445 posts)Who knows when their time is up?
The handlers were running Biden ragged while Trump practiced his Gish gallop.
FHRRK
(980 posts)Two things
Fuck the blatant discrimination against California
We are the most populous and successful state in the Nation and a liberal one.
Conservatives hate us, Good, they are hate filled fucks! But rather than fighting other Dems cower to the hate filled mother fuckers.
The problem and blame lie solely with one group.
The fuckstains who voted for Trump, full stop, end of story. Their racists, sick minds, soulless pieces of shit deserve the blame, nothing and no one else.
Enough of the circular firing squad. We lost because of misogyny, fear of “replacement” and the so-called bad economy tipped things over the edge.
uponit7771
(91,997 posts)
Ferrets are Cool
(21,991 posts)
bigtree
(90,287 posts)...and echoing hatred for California in this take?
What is this shit?
If we start assuming that all we can have is white old southern appealing men for president, I'm out.
You won't get my support for narrowing our appeal to white men who hate progressives.
Bettie
(17,389 posts)(provided that there are elections at all) that they hate women and will not vote for them. Misogyny is stronger even than racism.
Dem4life1234
(1,998 posts)Because Obama whooped ass single handledly
And he would have whooped ass if he was able to run again!
RockRaven
(16,530 posts)
gab13by13
(25,407 posts)Democrats have always faced head winds.
First of all let me say that Kamala Harris ran a spectacular campaign, she blew TSF out of the water campaigning.
Secondly, I only go to Nicolle Wallace, or Rachel Maddow for my news on cable TV. Why? The rest of the MSM talks about the narratives that the right wants them to talk about. In other words, the MSM hold Democrats to a much higher standard than they hold Donald Trump, the MSM gives TSF a pass.
Third, TSF shouldn't have been running for president, he should be fighting to stay out of jail. The fact that we had a milquetoast for an Attorney General who only acted against TSF when the J6 committee shamed him was horrific. The day that the FBI found boxes of classified documents in TSF's shitter in Mar-el-Loco TSF should have been arrested. Law enforcement and the Judiciary allowed TSF to commit crimes and not be held accountable.
Fourth, the MSM has been complicit in accepting horrific behavior both in actions and in deeds. The MSM has not called out bad behavior, it has covered it up. The moral and ethical standards in the United States has degraded to the point that a man who most likely raped at least two little girls at Jeffrey Epstein's mansion has become president of the United Staes. Yes there were witnesses to those rapes, one little girl was suing him until she got too many death threats.
Fifth - I don't see the situation improving with the MSM, it will get worse because TSF rules by fear and intimidation, people will be afraid to tell the truth if will upset TSF.
Sixth - Democrats need to elect leaders like Nancy Pelosi compared to Chuck Schumer, we need fighters. If a Democratic president can't get the votes to appoint someone then appoint him/her as acting whatever. That's the only qualms I have regarding Democrats, they need to get tougher, but I cannot blame them for this election, more big named Democrats than Kamala lost.
Mike 03
(17,378 posts)JI7
(90,892 posts)The more important thing is the things we should do when we are not having elections.
The right wing pushed the anti transgender issue all the time so people formed negative and misleading views about it and then tie democrats to it during election time.
Johnny2X2X
(21,882 posts)Recognizing the electorate we have and running the candidate who has the best chance is all that matters.
In 2028, we have a chance to do it again. I love Mayor Pete, but America will not elect a gay president, he has no chance of winning. I am in Michigan and love Gretchen Whitmer, but we need to look at 2016 and 2024 for evidence if a woman can win the presidency.
We live in a racist and sexist country, but you have to get some of those people to vote for you in order to win.
delisen
(6,580 posts)Plus has been rapidly making abortion legal on both federal and state level.
delisen
(6,580 posts)Blaming having women candidates is the wrong analysis and a sexist waste of time.
brush
(58,032 posts)I doubt anyone else would've run a better campaign so l say let's give a woman a chance to run a full one-and-a- half to two-year campaign before we rule out women all together.
trump got lucky that we have a slow moving, ineffectual AG who dragged his feet so long that trump was able to delay, delay and delay and has gotten off scott-free from trying to overthrow the government, plus stealing hundreds of classified docs that we still don't know what he did with them.
Garland should've started those prosecutions soon as he took office and trump would've been tried and convicted and serving time way before the corrupt
SCOTUS got involved.
valleyrogue
(1,192 posts)
Renew Deal
(83,066 posts)There would have been several revolts if Kamala was bypassed. Would the GE electorate care about the revolts? I don't know. But no room was really left to nominate anyone else, even if they were obviously better choices (which I don't think was so obvious).
Fiendish Thingy
(18,814 posts)They did an outstanding job with the hand they were dealt, as did Harris.
But yes, this loss guarantees the 2028 nominee will be a straight, white male with centrist tendencies not named Shapiro, and his running mate will likely be a Latino Man.
That’s not a direction I support, but it’s one I expect.
PortTack
(34,830 posts)It wasn’t up to the DNC to tell President Biden not to throw his backing behind Harris or question it.
My initial feelings were right from the time of the ‘2020 primaries…we cannot nominate someone who can’t win. That isn’t Harris’ fault, she was a great campaigner and leader. But, we have to nominate someone that can win…period!
jimfields33
(19,317 posts)Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Was not having tough conversations about Biden's ability to win reelection in early 23 or before.
Those behind the scenes conversations should have been had.
Instead, we were arrogant enough to believe that Trump couldn't possibly improve his position and anyone we put up would win.
flamingdem
(39,959 posts)We believed it 100%
onenote
(44,805 posts)I think that is unknowable, but probably not the case.
I think the result of this election was baked in a long time ago by the perception of a sizable part of the electorate that the Biden administration had failed them. Is that perception justified? No. But it would be naive to pretend that more than half the voters, including a not-insignificant percentage of voters who identify as Democrats, viewed the administration unfavorably. Those are strong headwinds to overcome. And while it would have been particularly hard for Harris to separate herself from the administration that she was part of, it also would have been difficult for Stein or Walz etc to run a campaign that was particularly critical of the administration. And trying to educate voters and convince them that they shouldn't be dissatisfied and/or should be more afraid of what a Trump administration would do to them -- well that's what Harris tried and I don't see why/how it would be more successful carried out by others.
Simply put, this was an election in which most voters were looking backward, not forward. They didn't like what they felt about the past four years, facts be damned.
Gore1FL
(21,991 posts)That may have influenced this a one time. It doesn’t now.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)It's about their ability to connect with voters in key swing states. They understand the local political climate and know how best to navigate it and appeal to voters.
Elessar Zappa
(16,080 posts)Easy to say with hindsight vision.
Wingus Dingus
(8,412 posts)But it will have to be a straight white dude Joe-Manchin-type, almost-Republican. When Obama was elected, we were a different country, with some reason and decency left. Those days are gone.
Well stated.
newdayneeded
(2,493 posts)swing right Tuesday. anything less than a centrist and we'll lose probably the next 4 cycles min.
BadgerKid
(4,700 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(102,693 posts)You're first blaming Joe Biden for not declining to run sooner. That was never the DNC's decision.
The rest of your complaints are about the primary process not choosing the kind of candidate whose demographics appeals to conservatives - male, white, not coastal. Again, it's not "the DNC" who cast the votes to choose the Democratic candidate, it's millions of voters. On the Republican side, they chose a rapist and convicted criminal who tried to overthrow the government. But apparently that's not important; but it is important that Democratic voters ignore the policies or personalities of their candidates, paying attention to dubious identity politics instead.
But you daren't state clearly who you're blaming - ie Biden and Democratic voters (such as DU members), so you pretend it was "the DNC" instead.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)If you don't think party leadership was part of that process, you are mistaken.
Pressure was put on Biden far too late.
yardwork
(64,765 posts)
snowybirdie
(5,685 posts)Monday morning quarterbacks. they are always s sure of themselves.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)It's an autopsy of a failed campaign and it needs to happen if we want to win the next one.
live love laugh
(14,555 posts)
NNadir
(34,841 posts)...the American people. It is always the case that in a Democracy, the people get what they deserve.
pat_k
(10,883 posts)Certainly, not having a conventional primary, where our new generation of leaders, and we, as a party, hammer out ideas and someone emerges with a stamp of leadership approval, was a critical juncture on the road to this end.
And frankly, IMO, we didn't have a conventional primary in 2016. Hillary Clinton was effectively anointed.
It was time for our party to start cranking over to a new generation, but too many boomers and older are hanging on too long (and I say this as a 65 yo person).
Can we please just take a beat? There were lots of forces at work here. The dynamics aren't clear. Analysis and reflection in the coming weeks will provide more insight.
As Simon Rosenberg points out, we also have to be very careful. There is going to be a lot of crap flying around about what happened -- and a lot of it from self-promoting, bad faith actors. We must beware. He talks about this and other things I think it is essential we hear in his latest video. It is long (about an hour), but I highly recommend:
https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/early-thoughts-on-the-election-video
Initech
(102,511 posts)Yes, we were constantly bombarded with pro-Trump polls 24 hours a day. We should have been analyzing the sources and fighting back against the propaganda. Because there was a lot of gaslighting going on.
The Dems need to rebuild their messaging system. The right wing's fearmongering propaganda system is too strong and has way too much power. Otherwise I'm afraid that the '26 and '28 elections are going to be same shit, different year.
doc03
(36,963 posts)kills your whole plan.
Scubamatt
(92 posts)I have no doubt that racism and genderism played a role, but from what I am seeing, the biggest disconnect was over the economy. People who simply felt they were worse off now than they were 4 years ago. We - who marinate in this - KNOW that, objectively, the economy is doing incredibly, due in large part to tough decisions by both President Biden and the Fed. (Who would have thought there would truly be a soft landing instead of a recession?) BUT, and here's the rub, the media REFUSED to report this - all they could do was talk about how inflation is killing everybody (and then how old Joe is). And although I love Joe, he did a terrible time messaging his successes to America. If we are going to win in the future, we have to: 1) start attacking the media for the biased shills they are (note that succeeded for the Republicans in the 90s and helped lend credence to Faux news; and 2) Get more focused on clear and regular messaging every day to "shape" reality (or how it is perceived). And on the first point, I want EVERY Democratic leader to weave this into the messaging ("We know you won't report this, but . . . ).
JohnSJ
(96,812 posts)every challenge, it wasn't enough for the pundits.
Emile
(30,795 posts)
WarGamer
(15,753 posts)Plus DNC should ask THIS question.
"What will a Teamster in Ohio think of this candidate? What will a machinist in Nebraska think?"
lynintenn
(757 posts)when he withdrew it gave us no choice but to back Kamala . if this country is not ready for a female president it surely was not ready for a black female seeing how racist this country remains. we will keep losing as long as wee keep tacking further left.. The religious right has been a factor ever since GWB.
Just look at how traditional churches are splitting over gays and female pastors . They are brainwashed .Being a liberal has become a dirty word. we have more churches in empty malls than established churches. Two of my counties largest church congregations have split in half this past year .They are praying for the apocalypse . I expect this is true in a lot of rural areas in PA, Virginia NC.Ohio Maybe because I live in a deep red state I see things differently
lees1975
(6,101 posts)The largest Evangelical denomination in the country, the Southern Baptists, have lost 25% of their membership since 2016. A combination of independent groups, like the Churches of Christ, are looking at similar numbers. Once Trump got a bigger percentage of them activated in 2016, and can depend on their votes, he doesn't need to keep appeasing them. Even the US census shows a shrinking percentage of people self-identifying as "evangelical Christian." It's the racism and ideology now.
lynintenn
(757 posts)I see it in the south
lees1975
(6,101 posts)As the final votes are counted, it is looking more and more like fewer than 100,000 in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania will separate Harris from Trump, and in the popular vote, while it doesn't now appear that she will top his total, it's going to be within 1%. So Trump goes in, once again, with half the electorate soundly against him.
I am now of the opinion that Biden should have announced, early into his term, that he wasn't going to seek re-election, allowing the trends to settle around whoever wanted to run.
We have to stop playing politics like we always have, and running campaigns like we always have. One thing we have to figure out is how to untangle a web of lies, and expose the truth and flatten the liars.
Jason1961
(461 posts)If we have to drop to their level then what is the point
Every State has had a woman as Governor, Senator, or Congresswoman
The biggest issues were:
1) VP Harris had an incredibly short amount of time to unite The Party and to bring in other voters
2) Working Class Voters have been duped by the Republicans, we either need to find a way to make them smarter (unlikely) or we need to tailor our message to them so they understand we, not the Republicans, have their best interest at heart
We don't need to be misogynistic, racist, or anything like that at all to win elections, we need to tailor our message to the Working Class and educate them on how we have their best interest at heart (even if they don't know it yet) while the Republicans only care about billionaires
In It to Win It
(9,765 posts)JohnSJ
(96,812 posts)country wasn't ready for a Catholic.
I refuse to play into ANY sexist, racist narrative. It is unacceptable.
The Democratic party is better than that.
The problem is, as it was for Hillary, was the DOUBLE STANDARD that the sexist misogynistic media presented.
Both Hillary and Kamala Harris had a higher bar to achieve, while trump had NO BAR.
As for what happened in 2016, that can be laid directly on Comey who sent a letter to the republicans 11 days before the general election. The media falsely said the "email investigation was reopened". THAT WAS A LIE, and they had every right wing pundit across their outlets pushing that LIE for the next 7 days.
Comey finally came out late Friday the weekend before the general election quietly said there was nothing new on the laptop to justify reopening the case, and that was barely mentioned.
The damage had been done by then. Before Comey, Hillary was ahead 4-5 points. After Comey, that lead was completely erased.
That really isn't rocket science.
As for the OPs suggestion that Shapiro might have been a better choice is interesting. Jews, and I am Jewish, have never had problems with antisemitism in this country (sarcasm). When I was a kid growing up in Iowa, thank goodness I live in California now, constant slurs were hurled at me, from "Christ killer" to "I got jewed" or "jews are cheap and stingy"
Please spare me narrative a woman can't be president.
that I see so many recommendations to this thread makes me sick!!!
RobinA
(10,197 posts)with anything you said, particularly about Biden running again, but I'm sorry. This shit is on the voters. There were no secrets here. Harris was a credible candidate and human being. Donald is neither. There is no acceptable reason to vote for a vile monster like Trump. If this country can elect a guy like that there is no hope without a blowout disaster that wakes these people up. Maybe. I know a few Trumpers and they are absolutely delusional.
Wait, I take that back. If you are a zillionaire there MAY be a credible reason to go Trump, although it would be a very black mark on your character. Other than that I don't want to hear it!