And we're back to the "Economic Anxiety" excuse

[BaronChocula]

I've been too sick to look over the margins of victory. I turned on Nicole for three minutes today and turned it off when I saw chyron proclaiming "Anger over economy drove trump victory" or something like that.

I don't want to spend too much time on this, but trump seems to have won comfortably over the vice president with an economy that is actually healthy. trump lost more narrowly to the president while the economy was bottomed out. Bad. Kaput.

Do the math. This was white racial anxiety, just as it was in 2016.

So sick.

[TheProle]

1. Thnk what you want

But good luck telling someone they're wrong when they are hungry, or working 2 jobs, or can't make rent - or all of the above.

[BaronChocula]

3. Think what YOU want

None of that is new to this election cycle.

[unblock]

8. Gimme a break. I lived through the 1970s. *that* was inflation.

I get why Carter lost, even though Nixon and ford were far more to blame, and Carter and volcker fixed it.

But I get it. Inflation was double-digits, the fed jacked rates up to something like 17%. That was painful, so I get it.

The 5% or so inflation was nothing compared to that.

Oh and by the way, inflation only happens when people can afford it, for the most part. They may resent paying more, but if a ton of people can't actually pay more, then businesses can't get away with raising prices.

Not to mention the disinformation as to who and what caused the inflation and who solved it.

[TheProle]

9. I lived through it too

No one looks at their hungry child, or meager pay stub, or the percentage of it that goes to having a roof over their head and says, "well at least it's not 5% like in the 70s."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. You can't tell people how they feel.

[unblock]

13. Point is the number of people who really suffer with 5% inflation is vastly lower.

Never mind that wages at the low end have gone up faster in the last few years than they have in decades.

Yes, of course, inflation creates winners and losers and some, particularly those on fixed incomes, are usually on the losing end. But it's not by a lot and it's not a ton of people. 5% inflation just isn't a huge problem in reality. Especially when 2% is the fed target and 3% is the historical norm over the last 100 years. The extra 2-3% is really all that painful?

Again, for some sure, but not for all that many and not that much.

But the right wing rhetoric turned it into something much bigger than it ever was in reality.

[BaronChocula]

22. I'm not denying the pain of living on the margins

But if that was what drove every election, Biden would have won by a much larger margin.

Like many Americans, I'm no stranger to bad times myself. I've also had family members deal with moments of homelessness. None of that erases the impact of race in American politics.

And I'm not diminishing the impact of economics on elections. I do know that since the Reagan era, there have been way more people falling back on economic excuses for their votes as to not have to admit they're cultural supremacists.

I do hope that things are ok for you now.

[TheProle]

24. Thank you.

Also, it's also worth noting that hope for the future figures into economic woes. And as we've seen, the dream of home ownership has gotten increasingly out of reach. Same with new autos, etc. So economic anxiety isn't always rooted in the here and now.

[AkFemDem]

27. Not everyone who voted this year was ALIVE in the 70s

Yes, you walked to school uphill in the snow both ways.... but that means nothing to the 18-40 year old voters who don't have that comparative experience.

[unblock]

30. Not everything in the world is relative. A light drizzle isn't a hurricane even if you've never lived through one.

Mild inflation is just that. Mild.

It's not the end of the world just because you're used to basically no inflation.

Propaganda turned it into a worse problem than it was by amping up a few specific items like milk and eggs.

Biden and his fed engineered a miracle soft landing, killing inflation without a recession. But the media parroted Donnie's and the right's talking points that the Biden economy was the worst ever.

Insane.

[questionseverything]

28. Grocery prices didn't go through the roof then like they are now

[TBF]

2. yet they'll buy $100 golden tennis shoes - they just won't vote for a woman. nt

[unblock]

4. Exactly. The economy excuse is mostly just a cover for bigotry.

At best, anyone who voted for Donnie based on the economy was willing to accept the bigotry as part of the package.

I.e., they may not bigot for free, but they're willing to bigot if they think there's money in it for them.

[BigMin28]

5. I'm positive

the media will start interviewing Harris voters any moment.

[BaronChocula]

6. Yes, laughter is helpful in moments like these

[Abnredleg]

7. It's a bifurcated economy

If you’re a white collar professional then you are flush due to the stock market and it’s their spending that is keeping the economy so strong. If you ‘re working class, you’re struggling and see no way forward. This has been decades in the making, with wages starting to flatline in the 1980’s and getting worse as jobs left the country. This hit the rural areas the hardest.

Yes, the economy is strong, but only for some. True, GOP policies aren’t going to help the working class, but in their view the Dems policies have already failed them.

[BaronChocula]

10. By the same token

republican policies have failed them too, no? Yet those (specifically white) working class and rural voters continue to err on the side of republicans. Again and again.

Please believe me; the republican party is much more attractive to white voters way beyond economic reasons.

[Abnredleg]

14. Both parties' policies have failed blue collar workers

But the GOP has been more effective in harnessing the anger. And the fact that Dems are starting to loose Hispanics and black men speakers to the strength of the economic argument.


Yes, white resentment is a large part of Trump’s appeals, but continuing to ignore the economic distress of so many people will kill the Dems.

[BaronChocula]

19. I know what Kamala Harris' economic plan was

for rising costs. It was clear and pointed whether or not you believed it could work.

What was the republican message? And how did it break through more effectively??? Tariffs?

Would Kamala Harris won if she had promised tariffs? I highly doubt it.

[Abnredleg]

20. Yes, Harris' policies are better

But both parties have failed the rural areas and blue collar workers, which is not surprising given the importance of corporate money in politics. Trump voters are looking for a change agent, someone who will fight the establishment. The Dems? They’re seen as the establishment.

[BaronChocula]

25. Again,

Both parties failed white voters on the margins, and the republican party is SOMEHOW seen as the party of change, that will make things better. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder why that is.

Sam Brownback famously ran as guv in Kansas promising to bring extreme republican policies He did just that and the state went belly-up. And they re-elected him. Can you please put that extreme case of republican affirmative action in economic terms for me?

[Abnredleg]

29. No - Trump the person is seen as a change agent

Yes, he ran as a Republican but he never was an establishment Republican. Many people don’t trust traditional politicians and view both parties as two sides of the same coin. Trump is viewed by his voters as being a non-politician who will overturn what they view as an unfair system.

Does it make sense? Not to traditional Dems such as us. However, perception is reality and the perception of the Dems as being elitist and out of touch is widely shared and can’t be ignored.

[BaronChocula]

33. We just disagree

and that's ok. We're on the same side in the larger picture. But I will take this opportunity to go deeper with what is going on with our politics, from my perspective.

The racial component is much stronger than most people are willing to let on. There has been a tremendous political realignment in politics since the Civil Rights Movement. LBJ underestimated the impact of his legislative agenda when he said "we're going to lose the South for a generation." It would have merely been a loss to the Democratic party for a generation had it not been for republicans from Richard Nixon on not capitalizing first on hostility of white Democrats in the South. The republicans welcomed those bigots with open arms.

Since then the party has been working to nationalize that hostility among white voters across all regions and it hasn't been that hard. The godfather of right-wing media Rush Limbaugh was syndicated nationwide in the late 80s. He had a specific appeal to white listeners that was anything but economic. He was a hundred percent "cultural." His message was that the liberal agenda to expand rights to all law-abiding citizens regardless of race, gender, religion, or sexual identity was an affront to the supremacy of the white conservative bigots who listened to him and for that reason, they should hate everything liberal, regardless of whether or not it propelled their own interests.

It was in these years that you had whites claiming "I didn't leave the Democratic party, the Democratic party left me." This had absolutely nothing to do with economics and everything to do with the fact that the Democratic party stood for protecting the rights of all Americans instead of allowing white bigots to make the call on who was allowed equal protection under the law.

The burgeoning right-wing media that came along after Limbaugh had to engage in his same populist bullshit in order to compete for the same audience and for them it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Even the most unsophisticated voter knows that the republican party is very white and very male. Throughout our country's history, white males have received all the passes, all the credit, and all the deference, way more so than even white Democrats like Joe Biden. THIS is why republicans are perceived by white voters to be better at handling the economy than Democrats. They are not. Its also why republicans are perceived by white voters to be better at handling national security. They are not. What gives the republicans the wide edge in these areas is what I call the White Man's Pass.

Joe Biden, with all his blue collar bona fides doesn't get the same White Man's Pass that Donald Trump gets because his affiliation is with the party that defends rights for more than just hostile white Americans. This isn't only true with the tea party/maga crowd. White swing voters will also tend to be more comfortable with a republican.

In my opinion people didn't buy trump's BS on tariff's because he messaged better. They didn't buy his BS on tariffs at all. His promise of tariffs had nothing to do with it. He is a pro-white white man. His victories were delivered on a majority white vote by white voters who give republicans the white man's pass. As a republican in America (particularly a white republican) you have to fail leaps and bounds beyond what it takes for a Democrat to be deemed less electable. It's why I used the Sam Brownback/Kansas situation as an example. Remember, amid an economic collapse trump got more votes in 2020 than he got in 2016. Was that because people thought he would be a great agent of change? I highly doubt it.

In 2016 the corporate press and media parroted the claim economic anxiety drove the vote when inflation was at about 1.3%. Unemployment had been on a downward trend. There was no evidence of recession on the horizon. It was only the diligence of less lazy journalists who debunked the economic anxiety myth and correctly exposed the outcome to what we politely call cultural factors. Bottom line, trump has that cultural appeal.

As a final note, I've never heard a white voter dismiss a republican candidate with "I just don't know enough about them." Perhaps they'd say "I'd like to find out more about them" and there's a world of difference between those two statements.

[keep_left]

12. Anyone remember this one--Midwestern Diner Man?

See panel #5.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217366772#post13

[BaronChocula]

16. I only wish I could make it all as clear

as Tom Tomorrow.

[keep_left]

32. Yep. There is a lot of culture-war nonsense wrapped up in...

...what the MAGA chuds call "economic anxiety". It's either white privilege, or incel shit, or misogyny, or...

[Fiendish Thingy]

15. People around the world are blaming incumbent parties for post-COVID inflation

When, of course it was largely due to price gouging by corporate opportunists.

Most People get their news from social media memes and have limited critical thinking skills.

We can only hope that Trump actually follows through with his threatened tariffs, so that inflation (and interest rates as a consequence) skyrockets before the midterms.

[BaronChocula]

18. Some places, sure

Inflation was way worse in a lot of other places "all over the world" than it was here.

Where was inflation here 2016 when the incumbent party was voted out for a populist racist? (It was at about 1.3%).

Please believe me. I understand the connection between economics and electoral politics. I also understand the connection between race and politics, very well. There are far fewer people who want to admit that culture (race, gender, etc.) have anything to do with their choice in the voting booth than economics. Thus economics always becomes the fallback excuse and the media runs with it.

[Mike 03]

17. That's my suspicion too. NT

[Yavin4]

21. If people were under such economic anxiety, then why didn't we see a slowdown in consumer spending?

Go to any airport and it's packed with people going on vacation. Tesla's ugly ass trucks are every where. Disney's theme parks raised their prices and they're still full. The same with luxury cruises.

If things are this bad, then why hasn't consumption slowed?

[WarGamer]

23. Let's be honest, the VAST majority of the country

has no idea what GDP is... or interest rate trends or unemployment figures.

They care about why they qualified for a $400,000 mortgage 5 years ago and only qualify for $310,000 now. They wonder why a new pickup truck costs $1000/mo... they can't afford $2000/mo for child care or $80 for 3 plastic bags of groceries.

In the context of American politics... change the definition of politics to... "Kitchen Table Budget Concerns"

And don't forget... you can't offset that with increased salary. Most people think THEY WORKED FOR the raise in salary and don't see that as an excuse to spend more.

"The man won't let me get ahead"

[AkFemDem]

26. Someday, we may stop clinging to identity politics....

And view these races as multi-issue winners and losers.

If OUR party doesn't think the economy played a significant role here and wants to only focus on the "isms"... well, then we're going to continue going down this long and ugly road.

[Keepthesoulalive]

31. The republicans have trashed the economy every time

They have been in office. Trump offered no plan for the middle class . When Biden tried to forgive student loans he was blocked by republicans. America has always been about isms , that’s how republicans get elected in the south. They don’t care about economics or they would vote differently.
Imagine no FEMA in Florida, Tennessee, Louisiana, Mississippi who would they call to get their states back on track. LBJ tell any white man he is better than the colored man he won’t notice you picking his pocket. Not much has changed.

[BaronChocula]

34. Amen!

[BaronChocula]

35. Great! How do you stop right-wing media

from focusing on trans athletes, bathrooms, books, teaching black history, etc. because that's what they use to win. Whether we like it or not the "isms" are alive and well and they impact everything to a greater degree than you may believe. Not everyone with a prejudice will be upfront about it. They will use coded language. They'll insist that the economy is driving their preference for an unqualified felon. This isn't just me saying this. This is Lee Atwater, one of the architects of the Southern Strategy who said this years ago.

If we're going to ignore the impact of racism and sexism and abandon the protection of rights for all, why be a progressive or a Democrat. You may as well just be a republican.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

36. DEADLINE WHITEHOUSE uncovers REAL REASON Why Kamala Lost - Nicole Wallace MSNBC revealing Insights

Watch the video below. Tuesday's election loss was not due to a bad campaign but due to the fact that voters had a negative impression of the economy and the wrong track numbers were too high. I do NOT think that based on the polling discussed that the Democratic Party has to make drastic changes.

I am a numbers geek. While I do blame part of Kamala's defeat on sexism, I heard today a good explanation as to what one of the major reasons for Tuesday's election results on Deadline White House today. President Biden had an approval rating of around 40% and the wrong track numbers were very high. Historically, an incumbent president tends to get the same percentage of vote as their approval ratings. Here Kamala got 7% or so higher vote compared to Joe Biden's approval rating which is a testament to the fact that she ran a great campaign.

Link to tweet

.

Joe Biden did a great job on the economy and prevented a recession. However the public was still upset at the fact that food and other things cost more and they felt bad about the economy. The high percentage of people who believe that the country was on the wrong track also hurt. In effect, Kamala was facing a very high burden to overcome and was unable to overcome the feelings that the country was on the wrong track and the fact voters were upset about the economy.

[BaronChocula]

37. Please believe me

Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:35 AM - Edit history (1)

Following the 2016 election numbers geeks were parroting the "economic anxiety" excuse which they are doing now. It was months later that more diligent journalists uncovered that it wasn't so economic after all. Economics has become a familiar cover for "cultural" issues.

I'll repeat just one of the points I've already made in this thread here:
If economics was the actual key driver of elections most people claim, than trump should have lost votes in 2020 from 2016 after the economy bottomed out. He GAINED voters in 2020.