Kareem Abdul Jabbar's comment

[trickyrick3]

From Kareem Abdul Jabbar's substack today. He is more than a legendary basketball player, he is an intelligent and brilliant writer:

Trump is President

America fooled me. Just when I was optimistic that we had turned a corner against irrationality, hate, and greed, and were marching forward toward a new age of enlightenment. We hurtle backward in time to a dark place where we dance around a pagan fire like the deranged children in Lord of the Flies.

I don’t want this to turn into a bitter diatribe about my disappointment in the American people who selected a rapist, racist, and cognitively challenged buffoon as their leader. Who put all marginalized people’s lives and rights at risk. Who put the security of the country at risk. Who put our children’s futures at risk.

The next four years will be challenging as we are led by a man in serious mental decline who has surrounded himself with political dimwits and moralless thugs. Most of the prominent people he hired last time turned against him during this election to warn us of his ineptitude, pettiness, and greed. His closest advisors said he was incompetent. But his supporters thought they knew him better. So, here we are.

The next four years will be about survival. If his economic plans are instituted, economists warn that we face dire times. If his health insurance plans are carried out, many will be without insurance. If his plans to protect women against their will (leave it to a sexual predator to phrase it that way) are realized, women will slip further into second-class citizenry. Christianity will be shoved down our throats by the most unChristian man in the country.

How do we live with our friends, families, and neighbors who voted for a rapist, racist, and fraudster? We give them grace. We assume that, though their minds were clouded by their lack of critical thinking, in their hearts they still want a compassionate America that embraces all of its people and protects their rights. They made a mistake, like a child sticking its finger in an electrical socket. Let it go as that and be the person that maybe influences them to think better next time.

Take a day or week to mourn, those of you who still believe in our Constitution and the country we could be. Then roll up your sleeves and prepare for four years of battle to save our country from becoming the tyrannic state that Trump and his supporters envision. They expect us to be humbled and docile. We won’t be. We are better than this election. Let’s prove it.

[Irish_Dem]

1. He is wrong. We cannot assume our fellow Americans want a compassionate, fair America.

Where everyone has the same rights and potential.

[Lonestarblue]

6. We now live in an America where over half think they deserve rights that the other half should not have.

They deserve the right to force women to birth unwanted babies or die from pregnancy complications, but women have no right to make decisions about their own medical care.

White people gave a right to vote, but black and brown people should not have that right.

White evangelicals have the right to have government force everyone to live by their religious beliefs, but we have no right to freedom from their religion.

Republicans think it is their right to pass laws that deny rights of parents of LGBTQ+ children to determine their medical care. The state will decide that they all such care, even counseling, will be denied.

Republicans believe they have the right to tell all parents what their children can read and to control what they can be taught as history. Liberal parents have to rights to have a voice in their children’s public education.

The motto now is rights for me but not for thee. Our intolerance and pursuit of our wishes is more important than your rights.

[Irish_Dem]

16. We live in a country where it is a crime to save a woman's life.

That says it all.

America has become a small, petty, ugly place to live.
People will be dying in the next four years.

[StarryNite]

9. The leopards are going to get fat eating their faces...

because karma's a bitch.

[rubbersole]

19. The pancake makeup is carcinogenic.

Eyeliner, also.

[ECL213]

28. I think it's pretty clear that is the last thing they want.

They want a bully who reinforces the belief that white is right, and that liberals are the enemy within. I wish I could be as optimistic and forgiving as Kareem. I'm not. Fuck grace!

[misanthrope]

56. Kareem isn't always right

One of his more recent columns had a segment built around an obviously specious "news" story about people communicating with each other through their dreams. He bought it hook, line and sinker.

Mr. Abdul-Jabbar sounds like a gracious guy but his critical thought processes aren't infallible.

[brush]

52. Isn't that what the founding fathers preached? "When in the course of human events...

...it becomes necessary for one people to...

And so on and so forth. That's what we've been taught since grade school. Apparently many didn't get the memo. Mostly the 72% of white voter who vote for trump.

[Bluetus]

62. Correct. This is not new.

Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 01:58 PM - Edit history (2)

This appeal to divisiveness was seen in Reagan's many fabricated stories of "welfare Cadillacs". This kind of propagandizing has been out there forever. The big difference is that people spend so much time online in confined bubbles (I say with no hint of irony as I interact online in just such a bubble), that gaslighting is much more efficient, effective AND CHEAPER than ever before.

One aspect of this online gaslighting is that it can multiply the tribalism because DIFFERENT bubbles can be gaslighted in completely different ways. We have the perfect example where the white Christian nationalists (I.e. the Fox News consumers) were fed a constant stream of the horrors of the border and waves of brown people taking your jobs and raping your daughters.

But only a few degrees of separation away, the GOP had a massive media operation targeting that selfsame Spanish-speaking population where they never talked about the 20 million deportations, but hammered on inflation and those abortions that are such an offense to the Catholic god that it didn't even make Moses' top 10 list. (Never mind that Moses predated the Catholics by 1500 years.)

The new media world literally allows charlatans to target adjacent communities with positions that are diametrically opposed to one another. And it works.

[Irish_Dem]

63. Good post. Welcome to DU.

The Russians and Chinese were also involved in the ongoing GOP propaganda campaign.

It has obviously been quite successful and brilliant.

Our enemies wage war against us and we don't even know we are at war.

[underpants]

2. Very well put.

[H2O Man]

3. Recommended.

He is amazing.

[jalan48]

4. Kareem makes a lot of sense.

[yardwork]

5. He's a better person than I am.

[Jeebo]

7. One more member of The Resistance.

Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:28 PM - Edit history (2)

I'm already thinking of us as The Resistance. I am happy to hear that Mr. Jabbar is one of us. A very articulate, sensible and principled member too.

On edit: I'd like to add that Mike Malloy used to call his show "Resistance Radio" back in the George W. Bush days. I hope he'll start calling his show that again.

— Ron

[choie]

38. I remember that very well (about Mikey calling it "resistance radio")

I'm almost nostalgic for those days.

[Ray Bruns]

8. "The next four years will be a shit show"

FIFY

[William Seger]

10. "... dance around a pagan fire like the deranged children in Lord of the Flies."

Wow.

[La Coliniere]

11. I will try to show them grace,

but in my heart of hearts I truly don’t believe I can. Not in the mood for Kumbaya today.

[a kennedy]

34. I'll be tolerant of them.....that's it. Grace??? They're not worthy of grace.

🤬 🤬 🤬

[calimary]

60. Tolerant my ass. I'm staying as far away from them as I can.

They don’t deserve tolerance. They deserve loud and constant condemnation. And resistance.

Every hour of every day.

Until we finally beat them.

[Hekate]

12. KnR

[barbtries]

13. that is good,

but i have a caveat. i'll give them grace when they give me grace. no more Ms Nice Guy.

[0rganism]

14. He has more faith in our decency than I do

I don't think the electorate made this choice as an exploratory accident. Maybe in 2016, maybe, but not now.

People constituting a majority of the American electorate found reasons to vote for a convicted felon, an adjudicated rapist, a transparently obvious bullshitter who'd promise them the moon as long as he could delay delivery, who outright said he'd use presidential powers to hurt people he personally disliked. This speaks volumes about our national character.

Calling us overwhelmingly stupid is the kindest possible interpretation. Kareem Abdul Jabbar seems to be a very kind and forgiving man. I am neither as kind nor as forgiving.

Dark times are upon us now. We face the utter and complete destruction of the systems and institutions upon which we've come to rely. Our graciousness in defeat will not spare us from the worst of what happens next.

[relayerbob]

15. Well said, but I don't really think we *are* better than this

The overall trends of our history shows that we've had this same basic divide since the beginning of the country, and generally have only gotten past it when waging war and had little choice (and not always then)

[LudwigPastorius]

17. "We assume that,...they...want a compassionate America that embraces all of its people and protects their rights."

That's awfully magnanimous of Kareem.

I'm not sure I ever believed that...but if I did, I sure as hell don't believe it now.

[lastlib]

18. Sorry, Kareem, I cannot do it.

The pain coming to others is too great. I WILL NOT play nice with the deluded (or in some case, evil) fools who supported a racist rapist, a TREASONOUS insurrectionist, liar/fraud/felon/thief and fascist dictator-in-waiting who will not hesitate to DESTROY the country I love, and the Constitution I took an oath to defend, all for his own personal aggrandizement, glory, and grievance. NOPE. Sorry.

[love_katz]

20. It's not pagan.

It's White Christian Nationalism.

The Nazis in Germany, the KKK, the John Birch Society.

All of the above promoted misogyny and oppression and violence towards women, and racism and classism, supprted by violence and oppression.

Paganism has nothing to do with it.

All of the mainstream religions are patriarchal, promoting the dominance and ( fake) superiority of men over all other groups.

I have had more than enough of it, and I feel rage at the refusal of too many people to even see it, let alone acknowledge it.



Patriarchal religions are anti-woman, anti-earth, anti-body, which they see as sinful and fallen.

This election can be laid squarely at the feet of White Christian Nationalism, and the campaign of hate filled propaganda and misinformation that they have run for years.

In my town, there's already been an incident of public threats: a red banner was put up next to a busy freeway interchange. It said, " We Are Coming For You".

[Felicita]

22. Ahmen!

[Duppers]

40. Yes! THIS.☝️

[SaveOurDemocracy]

21. I have no more Grace to give.

[DownriverDem]

23. They own the media

We need rich liberals to step up. I am disgusted and in shock. Forgive me, but I want the trumpers to suffer.

[ffr]

24. My heart is much darker than this, but I see how his message puts a nice face on it.

The point made, 'be the person that maybe influences them to think better next time.' This is a forgone desire, a false hope. The people I know are fully well aware of their dark side. They giggle at the prospect of how their beliefs hurt others and they're not only alright with it, but fuck your feelings! They fully support living in an 'alternative reality' made up by whatever today's right-wing talking point is.' In the end, it gives them the comfort that there are others, lots of others at this point, who also are doing the same.

They drag the rest of us down with them, because we're now obligated to wade through an indefinite period where American policy government institutions have lost their way or will be forced into it autocratically.

So, yeah, the future will not be bright. It's going to be darker than before, because this is the second term of indefinite length autocratic government. If they do as they say they want to do, a lot of people in this country should be scared. It's going to get ugly. 2025 will be the Republic of Trump era.

[oasis]

33. Kareem was restrained by his standing in

the public arena, but I completely agree with your assessment of our situation.

[bucolic_frolic]

25. There will be nothing left

It will all be stolen. We will have no advantages.

[littlemissmartypants]

26. Thanks. But I will form...

My own opinions and determine my own responses.

We all have to find our own way.

[littlemissmartypants]

27. Thanks. But I will form...

My own opinions and determine my own responses.

We all have to find our own way.

[madaboutharry]

29. Having grace toward those who have none is not an easy task.

There may have been Trump voters who were mislead and fooled. I think they are a small number.

I now believe that most, the overwhelming majority, of Trump voters voted for him because they admire the things about him that we loathe. They admire his crudeness, his cruelty, his racism, and his sexism. They are as crude, cruel, racist, and sexist as Trump. They voted for him because he speaks for them. After 9 years of having him in their lives they have now become him.

[Skittles]

30. love it

he truly gets it

[Evolve Dammit]

31. Truth, but I want accountabilty for what Orange Julius has been charged with in 4 legal venues.

[oasis]

32. Kareem stated the situation we're in with class

and clarity.

[Pinback]

35. This guy is so wise and such an excellent writer.

I really like this essay. Thanks for posting it. And I have always liked and admired Kareem, all the way back to his days when as “Lew Alcindor” he was a standout for John Wooden’s UCLA Bruins.

Here, by the way, is the link for those who would like to see it at the source:
https://kareem.substack.com/p/trump-is-president-and-other-stories

What an excellent Substack! I subscribed instantly.

Many of the comments in this thread have focused exclusively on this paragraph and found it unsatisfying or naive:

How do we live with our friends, families, and neighbors who voted for a rapist, racist, and fraudster? We give them grace. We assume that, though their minds were clouded by their lack of critical thinking, in their hearts they still want a compassionate America that embraces all of its people and protects their rights. They made a mistake, like a child sticking its finger in an electrical socket. Let it go as that and be the person that maybe influences them to think better next time.

I think Kareem’s take is exactly correct. Why waste time lecturing (or hating) the brainwashed? We have more important work to do (emphasis mine):

Take a day or week to mourn, those of you who still believe in our Constitution and the country we could be. Then roll up your sleeves and prepare for four years of battle to save our country from becoming the tyrannic state that Trump and his supporters envision. They expect us to be humbled and docile. We won’t be. We are better than this election. Let’s prove it.

[choie]

37. Naive is an understatement.

It's delusional.

[Pinback]

44. What did you think of the other five paragraphs in the piece? (nt)

[choie]

45. It was very well written. But, I''m not in the frame of mind

to evaluate it fairly. Too angry. That's about all I'll say.

[Pinback]

50. Understood. We all have a lot of rage right now,

and I pretend no moral superiority. We will all direct our energy where it needs to go when we’re able.

Kareem has a thoughtful approach that stems from years of dealing with racism for many years in his own stoic, philosophical manner. Admirable but tough to emulate in practice.

We will survive and fight. Thanks for your response.

[choie]

36. Except we're not better than this election

Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2024, 05:54 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm tired of people exhorting us to mourn for a week and then fight the good fight. Very, very tired.

[malaise]

39. Fooled me too

Love you Kareem

[stillcool]

41. There is a woman who lives across the street from me...

I've been avoiding her since she put a Trump sticker on her car. I will not discuss her political views, but I may choke out a hello. I can be kind...honey/vinegar.

[SoCalDavidS]

49. You're Better Than I Am

If she lived across from me, and she said hello, I would not respond. Outside of work, where my Income depends on clients who sometimes are MAGA, I am DONE being civil towards these people. They HATE everything I stand for, and I couldn't even bring myself to say a simple Hello, knowing what is in their heart.

[stillcool]

53. I don't know what's in her heart...

but I can't hold on to shit like that. Life is too effing hard, and too effing long.

[misanthrope]

57. It is possible to remain civil while being curt

Starting something acrimonious is a waste of time and energy. Best to just keep it as short as possible for all concerned.

[SoCalDavidS]

58. Ignoring Someone Is Not Starting Something Acrimonious

You can't keep it shorter and more curt than simply ignoring the person. A neighbor from across the street likely has no meaning to my life to begin with, and I feel no need to associate with them, knowing the type of person they support and believe is the best choice to lead this country. Let them get the hint, and not bother me with any greetings in the future.

[TheKentuckian]

42. Fuck some grace, Kareem. That ran out in 2000.

I can potentially offer forgiveness but not to a peckerwood that is still stabbing me in the balls.

They have to change, stop putting the burden on me or I'll fight you too.

[choie]

46. Can you offer forgiveness

to those who are unrepentant? I'm not that good a person.

[TheKentuckian]

47. Me either.

[Coexist]

43. Amen

[ThePartyThatListens]

48. Brilliant

However, I don't agree w/everything.

The bottom line, fight, fight, fight!

[JohnSJ]

51. Thank you Kareem, I agree with your assessment, with the exception of ASSUMING they are "misguided". I cannot go that

far and give them the benefit of the doubt. They have proven multiple times that is not their intentions.

Instead we need to unite to resist any way we can if they try to force draconian edicts upon us.

[Hassler]

54. I respect his ideas, but he is giving the assholes and delusional morons

Respect that they don't deserve. Liz and Dick Cheney voted against the orange menace. 20 years ago they were the pit of hell, and now they are but the surface of hell.

[Montauk6]

55. "They made a mistake, like a child sticking its finger in an electrical socket."

For some reason, I instantly thought of the line from Lt. John Kerry's haunting '71 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee: "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

[Jarqui]

59. He keeps on saying the "next four years"

I think that's foolish. The problem is not Trump. The real problem is those who enabled Trump. Always has been.

They're about to change the voting laws. Who is going to stop them?
All the voters rights things the Democrats fought for ... are Trump's enablers going to make those things happen or keep them around? Maybe it is just me but I don't think so. I think it is very naïve to think so.
Trump's enablers are going to go to work to make the next election tougher to win than this one.
They'll do it at the federal level and in whatever states they can.

Citizens United. The fairness doctrine. The control of 90% of the US media is by 6 entities who like Trump's tax breaks. SCOTUS is corrupt. How do we ever hope to get get a credible, effective word in as they consolidate more control?

Four years from now, it is going to be harder. Like Trump said, this may be the last time his followers will need to vote.
The problem is much bigger than Trump and the next four years.

[Martin Eden]

61. The consequences of another Trump presidency will have a much greater influence on those who voted for him...

Than any of us will have through kindness and gentle persuasion.

If the Dictator on Day One does what he promised, the economic consequences will hit both them and us hard. Very hard.

Tariffs will cause inflation to escalate beyond what they blame on Joe Biden.

The ensuing trade war will hurt our exports. Jobs will be lost.

Putting a huge chunk of our low wage workforce in concentration camps will drive up prices even more, and cause scarcities as vegetables rot in the fields with no one to pick them.

This will cause an economic recession, possibly a major one.

Slashing huge chunks of government services and benefits will hurt millions of people, including Trump voters.

Many will lose their health insurance or be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.

More women will die for lack of urgent healthcare when pregnancies turn fatal.

For the time being, Trump voters will revel in the alternate universe constructed for them in the rightwing propaganda media landscape.

But REALITY doesn't reside there. It resides in the real world of natural consequences, cause and effect. They are going to be slapped in the face, hard.

And so will we, by the choice THEY made.

Shall we rub their faces in it, slapping our former friends and neighbors and family members with all the anxiety and grief and anger we'll build up over the next four years added to the Trumpism we've already endured?

No.

Not if we want to rebuild America into something better. A house divided against itself cannot stand. We need as many hands on deck as can be mustered. Unrepentant racists won't contribute to the effort, but many of our friends and neighbors and familiy members slapped hard in the face not by us but by Trump will feel the consequences and hopefully act in their own best interests -- which happily coincides with ours.

Our emotions right now want to lash out in anger. Calmer reflection with critical thought about what's necessary to rebuild America's great experiment in democracy will guide us to a more productive course of action.

Kareem Abdul Jabar is right.

Showing them some grace is in our own best interests.

[andym]

64. Lady Liberty may soon utter "forgive them; for they know not what they do"

Many of his voters just went for their perceived self-interest especially economic over decency. But they had little understanding that instead they could be ushering in a hateful, dysfunctional America that would be difficult to reverse, never mind an economic disaster if he actually implements his tariffs for income taxes plan.

The Christians among them may recall the biblical line uttered by Jesus “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do” as he is being crucified. Lady Liberty may soon be uttering these same words metaphorically.

[hootman]

65. Good man