The economy is just an excuse for most Trump voters

[yardwork]

We're seeing a lot of blame placed on the Harris campaign for not talking about how so many people are still hurting, economically. But, I heard her talk about that, and her plans to help people.

Then I look at the people I know who supported Trump. Not one of them is hurting economically. Many of them are wealthy. They are wealthy, privileged white men and women with professional jobs, or they're retired in comfort, with SS and investment income.

They are also, I know for a fact, racist. And they have very old-fashioned ideas about women's roles. They were never going to vote for a Black and Asian woman. In fact, they'll never vote for a Democrat. They like their tax breaks. They like the way Republicans honor wealth and white privilege. They don't like helping non-white people and they resent successful Black people. I think they resent successful single women. I know this because they're my relatives, or the relatives of friends, or acquaintances, and I've heard them talk for many years.

People criticize Harris for focusing on Trump's weaknesses. But, somehow, Trump's relentlessly negative campaign was successful.

It's just an excuse.

[Blubird]

1. Yep

This 100%.

[Klarkashton]

2. For the average dimwit it's bigotry and thinking

That if their company owner is happy with the tax break then all is well.

[roamer65]

3. I am trying like hell to give them lower inflation!

I’m taking a machete to all of my spending. Only reviewed and absolutely necessary spending until November 2026.

I’ve already vaporized $2k worth of new appliance spending.

I would love to see us tip into deflation, but it’s gonna take us making a lot more MAGAts unemployed and homeless.

[Nasruddin]

8. Opposite might be better

I’m taking a machete to all of my spending. Only reviewed and absolutely necessary spending until November 2026.

The tail end risks involve things like massive tariffs, massive deportations, and weird international re-alignments wreaking havoc on our economy. You might want to amp up your big ticket spending now and get things / do things that you won't be able to do if your assets or property become worthless or your income stream drops or disappears. What can you do now that will help you in that case, and that won't hurt you too much if you accelerate your buying?

Let the depression take care of itself!

[eppur_se_muova]

4. I truly could not agree more. Most of them don't know shit about the economy anyway.

Their version of "knowledge" is whatever the right wing media chooses to spew at the moment. As soon as Big Brother declares "we have always been at war with Eastasia" that is what they will believe, and they will rabidly attack anyone who disagrees.

When immigrant farm workers started avoiding Alabama because of RW attacks on immigrants, farms were left with crops rotting in the fields because no "true" Americans wanted to work so hard under such conditions for so little pay. The same thing happened in other Southern states where the enforcement of tfg's policies were pursued most enthusiastically. It will happen again, and we'll see food prices go up as a result.

Every time prices go up because of lack of immigrant labor, or because of tariffs, we need to call it what it is: The Trump Tax.

[yardwork]

6. I remember being in central Ohio in 2019.

A small business owner was complaining that they couldn't find workers to pick the apples that fall. She was blaming Obama. This was right after Trump deported a bunch of migrant workers and scared them all.

One of my regrets is that I didn't speak up. I've known her for many years and I didn't want to create an awkward scene, so I stayed silent. Shame on me. No more. I must speak up from now on.

[c-rational]

31. Good on you yardwork. I see you have been on a roll about speaking up. I will join you.

[yardwork]

32. Thank you for seeing me.

[Mariana]

40. One of my regrets is that I didn't speak up.

Honestly, it wouldn't have made any difference.

[yardwork]

42. If we all start speaking up it might help. I don't know.

In other threads some of us are talking about shaming people. Others pointed out that that can be tricky to do in a productive way. If we call people names they tune us out.

But if we begin speaking up, calmly and politely, at least we are witnessing to the truth.

It could be a kind of spiritual path for us. Being willing to speak up, nonviolently but firmly, calmly but with confidence. Even though we know it might not work. Even though we might get ridiculed or yelled at.

[Mariana]

44. The problem is that even if they listen to what you have to say

as soon as they go home they turn on their preferred RW media and promptly forget everything you said.

You haven't mentioned religion as a factor. Trump got the majority of the Christians' votes - 63% of Protestants and 58% of Catholics. Christian churches all over the country were preaching that Trump was God's favored candidate, and that Kamala was in league with the Devil. I have no idea what can be done about that.

[yardwork]

45. I know, but I haven't thought of a better plan.

[Diamond_Dog]

5. Your post is 100% spot-on, yardwork.

[yardwork]

7. Thank you.

[Helicoptercatmom]

9. Sorry for the rant

I am a lurker, and don't post because my writing skills are not up to par and you all express my feeling better than I can. But I need to vent and hopefully be be talked off the ledge. I am still in shocked depression. After 7 months of hospice, I lost my husband to Alheizmeirs in late September. The very next day after he died, I had to euthanized one of my beloved cats. Now these election results! I knew it would be close, but I thought that there was no way the American people would put that monster in office. Again. Now, I have come to the conclusion that too many Americans are horrid people if you scratch beneath surface niceties. Pregnant women bleeding out in hospital waiting rooms because doctors refuse to treat? Pregnant 10 year old rape victims force to carry a pregnacy to term? Per the voters, the sluts must have deserved it. Don't insult my intelligence by telling me that they care about the "unborn." They don't. Never did. Never will. Not once have I heard of a force birther support a policy that actually helps children--especially once they are born. They just hate women. Really hate them. Deportations of black and brown people and crowded concentration camps to hold them during the interim? Including pregnant women and children?. Well, per the voters--cool. After all, we can't expect their belief in the sanctity of life to extend to migrant people and their children. Duh. Legal discrimination against LBGTQ+ people. Per the voters--nice. That is the way it should be. After all LBGTQ people shouldn't be allowed to shove their lifestyle down precious conservative throats. And how to the LBGTQ accomplish this feat of throat shoving? Well, by simply existing of course. Okay, rant over. Sorry that my first post us just a rambling screed.

[yardwork]

10. Thank you for posting!

That is a great rant! Please post more often.

I'm very sorry for your losses. Wishing you the best.

[Helicoptercatmom]

20. Thank you for your kind words. It really helps.

[radical noodle]

14. Not rambling at all

I'm so sorry for your losses and to have this election on top of everything else must be unbearable. There are good people, we have a lot of them here and please continue to post so we can help you get through this. Your writing skills are just fine, btw. We care about you and will be your strongest support when you need us. Someone is here 24/7 to talk.

[sheshe2]

23. Thank you so much for posting, Helicoptercatmom.

Please post more often.

I am so sorry for your losses, it's never easy to lose a loved one.

[uppityperson]

24. Great rant, you are not alone. Welcome to du

[MustLoveBeagles]

25. No apologies necessary

It was a great rant

[hannah]

11. Free speech tv

Randi Rhodes just said “ Elon Musk is President and Peter Thiel is Vice President.
We are in a spiral

[thesquanderer]

12. re:"In fact, they'll never vote for a Democrat"

The question is not why we couldn't win over the folks who would never vote for a Democrat. The question is why we couldn't win enough votes from the people who would.

[yardwork]

17. Sure. That's the constant uphill battle we wage.

According to exit polls, Harris won a strong majority of Black men and women. She won majorities of all other non-white demographics except Latino men.

I don't believe that economic anxiety was the primary motivation for Latino men to support Trump, when most Latina women and all other ethnic minorities chose Harris.

Trump won strong majorities of white men and women, a majority of Latino men, and made inroads with Asians and younger voters, especially men.

I believe that niche propaganda and Trump's toxic masculinity appealed to men and white people. The reasons would be linked to issues of sexism and racism.

[thesquanderer]

21. re: "I don't believe that economic anxiety was the primary motivation for Latino men to support Trump..."

... "The reasons would be linked to issues of sexism and racism."

And yet Latino men strongly supported Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. (And they supported Biden over Trump, even with Harris a heartbeat away.)

Also, while Trump won with white men, the CNN exit poll shows that, among white men, Harris did *better* against Trump than Biden did!



from https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/politics/2020-2016-exit-polls-2024-dg/

These things argue against sexism and racism being the big factor. While I'm sure there's always some, getting back to your earlier point in a way, I think the majority of the folks who don't want to vote for a woman or person of color are probably largely people who are unlikely to vote Dem anyway.

[LisaL]

34. Look how Laino male vote changed from Biden +23 to Trump +10.

How do you explain that one?

[thesquanderer]

62. re: "How d you explain that one?"

My point was that sexism is a poor explanation, since Biden did worse with Latino men than Hillary had done 4 years earlier; and racism is also a poor explanation because they overwhelmingly supported Obama. That doesn't mean I know for sure what the actual explanation is. But of course, one does not need to know the right answer for something to still be able to tell that some answers seem wrong simply based on the available evidence.

[yardwork]

37. These are good questions. A lot has changed since 2016.

In 2016, Putin and other bad actors figured out how to influence people through targeted online propaganda. This added a new level of targeted influence, over and above the existing hate radio and Fox News. They used data from social media to stratify voters into groups, then sent targeted messaging to those groups.

They are even better at this now. Since 2020, Musk bought Twitter and unleashed disinformation. Cryptocurrency and online gaming became ubiquitous. I think the Republicans are telling their lies on Spanish-speaking radio and TV. Bots have gotten a lot more believable, thanks to AI. There are so many ways to spread lies and falsehoods now.

What this means is that it didn't matter what Harris said, the right-wing lie machine just erased it. They erased her actual words and replaced them with Trump's lies. The campaign told different lies to different groups.

Again, I will say that the price of eggs is not a strong enough motivator if people had been accurately informed about what each candidate actually said.

We have to face the fact that we can't win elections just by providing good policy plans and speaking to people's needs and desires. We're going to have to figure out how to overcome the lies and propaganda.

The only thing I can think of is to talk directly with people, and when they repeat lies, call them on it.

Edit; typo

[andym]

64. Latino men and women made the difference according to these exit poll numbers

Why? Earlier polls stated increased economic anxiety

Pre-election polling suggested economic issues and they were damaging support for Harris.
https://www.wlrn.org/government-politics/2024-10-14/harris-trump-hispanic-vote
Hispanic voters now mirror most U.S. voters, with economy topping their concerns, says expert
WLRN Public Media | By Jimena Romero
Published October 14, 2024 at 1:42 PM EDT

Some excerpts:
"As you get to the second and third generation, they begin to vote very much like the rest of the electorate and so they're largely driven by economic considerations, particularly the price of food and the price of housing, " said Florida International University political science professor Eduardo Gamarra during an interview on WLRN's South Florida Roundup with host Tim Padgett."

--snipped paragraph suggesting a hidden Kamala contingent, when the next paragraph clearly indicates the professor meant a hidden Trump contingent (see directly below)--

“[Hispanics] might identify on some things with Trump but they’re not going to tell you because they’re going to be ashamed. And, I think that is transcending into the general electorate as well,” said Gamarra, who also leads FIU’s Latino Public Opinion Forum.

The latest polls of Hispanic voters nationally show Harris with a significant lead over Trump, but that advantage for a Democrat is far less than in previous presidential elections.

Harris is leading 54%-40% in last month's NBC News/Telemundo/CNBC poll, with 6% unsure or undecided. But her 14-point lead is lower than past Democratic presidential candidates in 2012 (39 points), 2016 (50 points) and 2020 (36 points)."

[TBF]

13. Agree - the one family member that really got into it

with my friends on my facebook wall is a very well to do person complaining about the cost of housing in her city. She does currently rent, but she also already owns a house in another state. She is acting like she can't afford anything, but I know the backstory. Her parents were the ones who actually made the money in her family, her dad as a VP to a pretty major company that eventually outsourced production jobs to Mexico decades ago. There is no way she even considered voting for Kamala. She acts like she's into social justice because she is in a mixed marriage, but I think the bottom line is that she feels her money will protect them both. I could see this Supreme Court overturning Loving vs. Virginia (1967). I hope she has at least thought about that and has their passports ready.

[yardwork]

19. The hysteria I heard from well-off male relatives about crime...

Big strong men, with lots of guns, who live in virtually crime free areas who watch Fox News and rail against "the illegals" and "Democrat cities" burning.

They aren't really scared. They don't know the price of eggs. They're angry because they consume right-wing propaganda. They didn't bother to learn anything about Harris's platform. They just taunted us about Biden and ignored Trump's behavior. And their docile wives went along with all of it, mostly to keep the peace.

[travelingthrulife]

36. Yes. Also states nowhere near our southern border whining about illegal hordes

Those of us living at or near the southern border are scratching our heads and saying, "What problem?" Pretty much normal traffic most of the time except when caravans are being funded.

The problem is that these bigots want no one of color entering our country.

[yardwork]

38. Exactly.

The same Trumpy relatives I'm thinking of live in rural or suburban areas far from major cities, which they're convinced have burned to the ground.

Trump said that Minneapolis burned down and "they didn't even bother to rebuild it." The MSM didn't bother to correct it. Most Democrats rolled our eyes.

But Trump voters believed it because they wanted to believe it. Deep inside they know it's probably a lie. JD Vance said it out loud when he told an interviewer that he knew Haitians weren't eating cats, but it was necessary to tell that story to put attention on the real problem. A problem that is not real. That's propaganda, in all its layers.

[Thrill]

15. Some of those white men have good jobs right now

Because of Biden. Then turn around and vote for Trump, who had them on unemployment. Ungrateful racist pieces of shit

[Irish_Dem]

16. Yes, well to do people complaining about the economy.

People who live in expensive homes, drive expensive cars, take cruises three times a year,
have vacation property, etc.

Sure the price of eggs is really bother thing them.

Liars.

[yardwork]

18. Harsh, but true.

[Yavin4]

28. Ford F150s are among the most expensive trucks that you can buy.

They posted record sales for new trucks in 2023. Who's buying them? Hint: It aint the coastal, liberal elite.

[Irish_Dem]

30. Once Trump and Musk are done with them, I wonder if they will have money for these $$$ toys.

Just like the JG insurrectionists. Many of them on government payroll and pensions for most of their lives.

Business owners, etc.

But life is so hard they have to overthrow the government that gave them their comfort and wealth.

[Emile]

35. They are very expensive. I have a 2011 Silverado crew cab with a hybrid 350 V8

with four wheel drive and bought it new for $30,000. It sits in the garage all the time, 38 thousand miles on it and it still looks brand new. I need it to pull my boat or camper on rare occasions. A brand new comparable truck today would cost three times as much.

[NickB79]

43. Yep. I needed a truck, and got a Ford Maverick instead.

Almost bare-bones XL model, $28,000 brand new this summer. It could have been $25,000, but I wanted the hybrid engine, trailer hitch, mud flaps, and bed cover. But, the hybrid is getting 44 mpg, vs 25 mpg from the stock Eco-Boost, so it's worth every penny.

Smaller than an F-150, but enough to satisfy my needs and half the price.

[Solly Mack]

22. And the complaints about identity politics as if white supremacy, that permeates this country and has done so from

the beginning, isn't identity politics. White supremacy is the original and dominate identity politics in America.

But let people who aren't white, aren't male, and aren't straight demand to not just be heard but seen as people, as full citizens with rights, and my, my, my, identity politics are suddenly bad.

K&R

[uponit7771]

26. ***THIS !!! GERMANY WAS NOT IN DIRE STRAIGHTS WHEN HITLER WAS PUT IN AS CHANCELLOR*** The "economic distress" ...

... is excusing people who were giving social permission to act badly and followed it.

We will pay for that, the bombs didn't just fall on the Nazis

[Yavin4]

27. Look at how these corporations are doing.

These are all expensive discretionary spending items.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219682196

[Scrivener7]

29. This. They told us this in 2016. They were lying.

And now they're telling us its the economy again. Seriously, people? You're going to fall for that nonsense again?

"It's the economy" is republican language for, "I'll never vote for a woman or a person of color."

[DownriverDem]

33. Let's be honest

Evil won. Racism and misogynistic views are what won the day. All the cuts will impact Americans in so many ways. I have not watched the news since the election. I am waiting for the trumpers to whine and complain when it all comes down.

[yardwork]

39. Dan, I've decided that I have to speak up when they complain.

In the past, I've sometimes stayed silent because it's a social event or somewhere I didn't want to create awkwardness.

The next time I hear somebody complain that "nobody wants to pick my crops" I'm going to say that Trump scared and deported the workers.

The next time somebody complains about being on a fixed income I'm going to say that Trump's policies are bankrupting SS. I'm even going to mention that Al Gore wanted to save SS but everybody laughed at him for saying he'd "put it in a lockbox" and I wish we had that now.

I'm going to start bringing up how every Republican in my lifetime trashed the economy and then Democrats had to come in and fix the mess, and as soon as it's fixed people go right back and vote in a Republican. And that as a result, America has fallen further and further behind in terms of sharing wealth.

Let them expose themselves by saying that they don't want to share wealth. Then we'll talk about that. It's on.

[NickB79]

41. Every MAGA I talked to had no idea how bad tariffs and mass deportations could be if enacted

Anyone who gave even the tiniest of shits about the economy would have voted against Trump just on these two issues. Either one will cause another recession. Combined, a depression.

Nope, they're perfectly willing to roll the dice on that, as long as it hurts the people they hate.

[yardwork]

46. That's a good talking point.

When people ask me how I'm doing, I'm going to start mentioning my concern at Trump's tariffs and mass deportations are going to raise prices sky high and possibly cause a depression.

Apparently a lot of Trump voters think the rest of us are liberal loonies who only care about trans rights. I DO care about trans rights but apparently all the Trump voters care about is money, so that's what I'll talk about.

[NickB79]

48. My dad's family are all dairy, corn and soybean farmers

They got their asses handed to them during Trump's first tariff war with China. But, they're all still MAGA.

If Tariffs 2.0 gut their income again, I'm just going to laugh in their faces. Doubly so if they lose their farms. I'm willing to burn that bridge with my aunts and uncles at this point.

[yardwork]

49. I heard the same from textile mill owners in SC.

They passed the increased prices onto customers and complained that they lost sales, but still magically believed that "it's good for the country."

I guess they're ready to go again.

[joshcryer]

57. Triple funny if Gates buys up all their land and puts robots to work.

[joshcryer]

56. Mass deportations can literally never happen.

The farmers will riot if the national guard starts rounding up workers. Construction companies will have to shutter if the local police start door knocking on "guys who speak Spanish."

It is 100% for show and is literally impossible to implement.

Yes they will round up a few thousand of them for show, but they will never implement the level of deportation necessary to fullfil the pledge.

And those thousands of families that are going to be negatively impacted by this bullshit (and believe me it will be young innocent families and not entrenched workers who have long term illegal jobs)? Oh well. People will cheer it.

[NickB79]

66. Even just that, combined with a border lockdown, will destroy immigration to the US

You can bet they'll be building the wall, or at the very least militarizing the border.

A lot of immigrants already here will say fuck it and move back if they have the means to, rather than live in constant fear. Because that's what they want, to instill fear and compliance.

Without immigrants though, the US population would be falling at this point. We don't have enough American-born children to stop it. The only way we don't see a labor crisis is if we see a recession. No good options anyway you turn.

[TBF]

67. Wait until they defund public schools & cut ACA -

none of them will have education & health care for their kids/grandkids.

They did not think this through. Blinded by their hate, racism, sexism, etc.

[Jk23]

47. The problem is rich white people including rich white men are one of the few groups Harris improved with

She got killed with Hispanics and lost quite a bit of support among other minority groups and women.

I mean right now our base is black women and people with college degrees and unfortunately that's not a majority in most of the country.

The issue is in rich white people the issue is the working class doesn't want to vote for us anymore.

[yardwork]

50. That's not quite accurate, though.

Yes, a small percent of white voters shifted away from Trump, but considering that every economist, all those generals, all Trump's former aides urged people not to vote for him, and the fact that he's vulgar and crazy, etc., way too many educated white people still voted for him.

A majority of Hispanic men shifted support to Trump, but most of those people are probably well off, too. My BIL is one. His family has been here forever and he basically thinks of himself as white. He's terrified of migrant crime which is a big problem where he lives in northern Alabama, not. /sarcasm

White voters make up the majority of voters and they voted for Trump overwhelmingly again. All minority groups except male Hispanics supported Harris.

[Keepthesoulalive]

53. Who fought to raise the minimum wage

Who supported the teamsters and auto workers? Who invested in rail travel and infrastructure? It was not the republicans, it was Joe Biden and the Democrats.
Minorities are also working class but we are not stupid enough to vote for a party that hasn’t done anything for anyone but the ruling class.

[Jk23]

55. I'm not disagreeing with you

But I just letting you know who voted for whom.

Maybe we need to figure out why despite our policies be naturally more appealing to the working class they flooded to the other side.

Take a look at the shift word right in California and the removal of progressive DAs might give you a hint that's more than just economics.

[Keepthesoulalive]

59. Racism is strong in this country

And you have tv stations , radio, and the internet to amplify the message.
Until we figure out how to neuter the monster we will continue to lose.

[Jk23]

60. When Obama voters refuse to vote for your candidate

Crying racism does doesn't work any more than crying sexism doesn't work when she doesn't get Hillary voters.

And I don't think it was the candidate herself necessarily I think she was an impossible position. It would have taken a much stronger politician to pull that out.

But calling the majority of people who voted and keep in mind Trump voters were the majority of this time around racists and sexists is not a winning strategy particularly when you're talking to people of color and woman who are part of that group.

[Keepthesoulalive]

61. People can be racist even when they have 1 black friend.

Obama had the best ground game ever. We were in the midst of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression and no one wanted to hear from republicans because they didn’t have a plan. The racism and backlash against him was swift and then we elected trump. The republicans have been playing the race card since Nixon . Donald trump and his allies played it again and again. Good people on both sides.

[Jk23]

63. Obama serve two terms the only reason he didn't serve three is he wasn't allowed to

We got Trump for a variety of reasons in 2016 which I'm not going to get into right now.

I'm just saying it crying racism and sexism when the numbers don't back it up doesn't seem to do anyone any good.

It just seems to be a way to avoid the real issues that caused us to lose

[Keepthesoulalive]

65. Why did we lose?

We checked all the boxes that could help everyone in this country.
We had a brilliant candidate and trump is a mean spirited ,grifting con man who is dumb and incurious. Haitians are eating pets , our cities are burning , lie after lie and don’t get me started on Vance.

[skylucy]

51. Amen!

[Polly Hennessey]

52. Yes. Sounds similar to my family.

I’m one level different, however. My niece went to college with Ainsley Erhardt of Fox and Friends. They are still very close friends. Ainsley is dating Sean Hannity. Need I say more…..

[Yavin4]

58. Women like Ainsley are dead inside.

They sold their soul in order to partner with wealth and status at the expense of their happiness. Being able to buy whatever you want replaces finding true meaning and love in life. This is why some White women hate single White women who make very different choices. They resent independent, single women who refuse to fuck shitty men like Sean Hannity. To women like Ainsley, removing reproductive rights is their revenge on these women.

[joshcryer]

54. Racism, womens rights, and LGBT, those are their issues, and always have been, and always will be.