General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOh, my GAWD! Y'all please stop with the magical thinking!
Fewer Democrats voted for Harris than for Biden.
There's nothing magical about it. It's strictly math.
VP Harris needed to do better and than Biden and Trump to win but the unaffiliated who we needed didn't vote for her and all the other Democrats we needed who voted for Biden stayed home.
Then Trump was able to sell his line of sh¡t to the "bro" voters. The white, black and Hispanic bro voters who had never registered before voted for Trump.
He told them everything they wanted to hear because he needed to stay out of jail and people are easily fooled and confused.
We need to move on. We have to form our plans for reality based reactions and hold tight to the coalition we still have.
Please let's try and get a grip.
❤️pants
Elessar Zappa
(15,801 posts)Im sick of the conspiracy theories and defeatism.
True Dough
(20,140 posts)kicking people in the pants, Little Miss Smarty. Well, you know what? Sometimes we need it, even DUers. Hope your foot doesn't get sore!
Take care, my friend!
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)It amazes me how few people have looked at the math.
It especially confounds me that we're getting weird and blaming each other. We don't have time to waste on foolishness.
Our most finite resource is time but it's also the Republican's and they will be pouncing fast and hard to take every opportunity for mischief available.
We need to try and minimize the damage. We certainly don't need to be blaming anyone.
Thanks for your reply. ❤️
True Dough
(20,140 posts)I believe in the apathy factor, the right-wing radio/social media factor and the racism/misogyny factors. Those can all be true without Democrats being at fault.
Some might argue that the apathy wouldn't have existed if Dems did a better job of motivating voters, but those Harris rallies were ENERGIZED! More importantly, if voters weren't hell-bent on keeping Trump of all people from again controlling the levers of power, then that's on them.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Without the unaffiliated voters. We need them and they went elsewhere this time.
Plus all the new/first time male voters pushed Trump over the finish line.
Our turn out needed to be massive.
VP Harris did her part but she ran out of time. We just couldn't make up the numbers.
The propaganda machine is a scary wildcard, too. I'm no genius but I can think.
We all suffer when we all don't care to try and think.
I worry too many don't take the time to try. Many people are tuned out and overwhelmed.
❤️
Abolishinist
(1,921 posts)the down-ballot candidates as well. There are some razor-thin House races out there as well.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Thanks so much for pointing that out! ❤️
luvallpeeps
(1,111 posts)Why do you suppose trump told his rally goers he didnt need votes? Quite a few times. The bomb threats to the dem strongholds, and the little secret between Mike Johnson and him. We have to move on, of course. To pretend were dealing with a normal situation is denying the truth. We are dealing with a ruthless bunch who will stop at nothing to gain & keep power. Our normal strategies wont work.
LiberaBlueDem
(1,149 posts)You won't find me telling people to be quiet
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Someone on this post? Who?
live love laugh
(14,353 posts)littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Not once have I done that. I'd just like us to look at the math.
I'd also like it if we could get control over our apparent penchant for seeing things that don't actually exist.
I'm pretty sure that your accusation supports my supposition that there's magical thinking going on, though.
Thanks for your reply, live love laugh.
live love laugh
(14,353 posts)littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)It is the contrast between examining logical math and entertaining fantasy. Which can both be valid coping strategies.
One is more valuable and productive than the other in reality based planning, though.
Believe that if I wanted people to shut up, I would have said so directly. What I definitely don't want is for anyone to stay silent as it relates to our current and likely to be perilous reality.
I also don't want anyone to keep holding on to their helium balloons and lose sight of the ground when it's a sure bet that those balloons aren't going to save them.
Here are three definition sources for the phrase "move on" and not a single one references telling someone to shut up, be silent or stop being verbally expressive. If you know of any that do explicitly support that notion please share them, live love laugh. Thanks.
Verb
move on (third-person singular simple present moves on, present participle moving on, simple past and past participle moved on)
(idiomatic, intransitive) To continue, to proceed, to go on
After spending the night resting in an abandoned church, the group decided to move on in their quest.
(idiomatic, intransitive) To start dealing with something else.
The best revenge is always to just happily move on and let karma do the rest.
(idiomatic, transitive, informal) To attempt a seduction, often in a way seen as disloyal or rude to another.
I think Shane is going to move on my ex tonight.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/move_on?origin=serp_auto
The phrase ``move on'' generally means to let go of a situation, relationship, or feeling that is no longer serving you, and to start focusing on other aspects of your life. It often implies a shift in emotional attachment or interest.
https://www.quora.com/What-does-move-on-means-Should-I-completely-stop-talking-to-her-or-just-a-little-chit-chat
move on
British
1. phrasal verb
When you move on somewhere, you leave the place where you have been staying or waiting and go there.
2. phrasal verb
If someone such as a police officer moves you on, they order you to stop standing in a particular place and to go somewhere else.
3. phrasal verb
If you move on, you finish or stop one activity and start doing something different.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/move-on?origin=serp_auto
❤️
live love laugh
(14,353 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2024, 12:47 PM - Edit history (1)
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Always a thorough and convincing retort.
live love laugh
(14,353 posts)littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)"Trump said..."
That should be the cue to tune him out and spend your time on something productive.
He's a psychopath. He needs to stay out of jail.
That's more than enough detail for me to know about him. I'm not going to probe any further. It's a colossal waste of time.
Dem4life1234
(1,500 posts)But hey, we're called conspiracy theorists for calling out voter suppression shenanigans. When clearly the vast majority of people hate his fat ass.
Why haven't they investigated the threats to poll places?
luvallpeeps
(1,111 posts)Hes their retribution. The stochastic terrorist-in-chief. He loves dictators and hes not afraid to admit it. Strong tough leaders he calls them. Orban let us know they have great things in store. Oh I cant wait. Im like a kid on Xmas eve. At least those kids wont be getting those sex change surgeries at school. Those Haitians wont be eating the pets anymore either. Gonna be lit!🔥
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)One's based in fact and the other...well you know.
The Republicans definitely upped their voter suppression game but they also upped their registration and voting on the same day game, too. Seeing those numbers was like experiencing a sudden sneak attack while believing that the battle was over.
And which of the threats to polling places haven't been investigated? That is an interesting development!
Silent Type
(6,500 posts)He also said he might lose, and lots of other BS comments.
JCMach1
(28,051 posts)I want them F'ing crying on the sofa.
No more we go high BS.
Jit423
(192 posts)littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)And where? I'd love to know.
Pinback
(12,873 posts)Enjoying your time here so far?
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)DSandra
(1,224 posts)Our very world we see now was shaped by people who didn't think that way, that fought and died for shaping the world the way it is. Dems that think like that are also part of the problem.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)No offense, but I don't understand your point. I'd like to though. Please tell me more. ❤️
DSandra
(1,224 posts)Passiveness is betrayal in America. I'm sorry, but I have little sympathy for passive people, as they get stepped on by the rest of society much like every passive animal is by nature.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Exactly, democracy/the Republic has only ever been a thing that we have to fight for to keep. You're exactly right about that.
I feel for the weak and see it as my/our obligation to help them. That includes the smallest non human critters and the tiniest wildflowers.
Look at what President Biden did today for the greater sage grouse*. He truly leads by example. My heart is breaking for him.
I hate the impending and possible alternatives.
But I'm not going down without a fight either.
Thanks for your reply, DSandra. ❤️
*greater sage grouse
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143336474
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/group/birds/sagegrouse/?origin=serp_auto
TomSlick
(11,841 posts)We can't get up until we accept that we were knocked down.
Deuxcents
(19,599 posts)littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)soandso
(1,012 posts)Trump didn't pick up any new voters (in terms of numbers).
2008
69,498,516 Obama
59,948,323 McCain
2012
65,915,795 Obama
60,933,504 Romney
2016
65,853,514 Clinton
62,984,828 Trump
2020
81,283,501 Biden
74,223,975 Trump
2024 (so far)
74,258,483 Trump
70,363,384 Harris
Dem votes '08-'24
69,498,516
65,915,795
65,853,514
81,283,501
70,363,384
Rep votes '08-'24
59,948,323
60,933,504
62,984,828
74,223,975
74,258,483
Zeitghost
(4,490 posts)Additional voters in 2024 over 2020.
soandso
(1,012 posts)The lag in counting was coming from out west and will have more Harris votes. Here's the current totals:
https://decisiondeskhq.com/results/2024/General/President/
uponit7771
(91,670 posts)..states especially the blue wall.
In 2020 they pushed for nearly 6 months for people to do mail in ballots, that's the difference ... there was no push this time.
Harris had similar JB small donor amounts, the people were there ... voter suppression is a muthaf**ka
John1956PA
(3,357 posts)In Pennsylvania, more people voted in 2024 than in 2020.
Combined PA Votes for Biden & Trump in 2020: 6,835,903.
Combined PA Votes for Harris & Trump in 2024: 6,847,650 and counting.
uponit7771
(91,670 posts)... screwed !!
Benedict Donald isn't going to get Real Wages back to 2019 trajectory without gorging the national credit card
soandso
(1,012 posts)and both parties encouraged voters to use them. Some states even automatically send out mail in ballots.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)How do you think we account for them, soandso?
❤️
soandso
(1,012 posts)most of them leaned and voted whatever way they did previously. What happened to the millions of voters who disappeared from 2020, I don't have any guesses. To properly analyze that, you'd have to look by counties and see where vote totals dropped to try and nail it down. I'm not a numbers person (bad at math!) so this is a job for someone like Steve Kornaki, lol.
Sibelius Fan
(24,630 posts)might sit out the election were he replaced on the ticket. I would be interested in seeing any data that would support such an occurrence.
oldmanlynn
(349 posts)luvallpeeps
(1,111 posts)in the face of what we were facing would have neglected to vote this time. Covid deaths, his rhetoric at his rallies, his support of Putin & other dictators, the insurrection.The generals coming out against him, so many of his administration who didnt endorse him. We knew what was at stake. It didnt look good for him. All of a sudden, Elon starts handing out millions of dollars and shows up at his rallies. He tells people he doesnt need their votes. He has all the votes he needs. He started canceling interviews and rallies. The ones he did have were poorly attended. Meanwhile Kamalas enthusiasm was soaring. I dont believe they just decided to hand it to him. No way. Not this time.
Sibelius Fan
(24,630 posts)How does one explain that?
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)What one person or another hold as a "belief" can't be used to formulate a mathematical equation.
That's really what the issue is here, math.
We do not go into a voting booth spouting our generalized beliefs on a variety of subjects and then have them tabulated and presented to us as mathematical facts.
Fanciful imagining and facts don't even mix as well as oil and water immediately after the container that holds the two are shaken.
If they did the library would be divided into section one for fiction and section two for fiction-nonfiction-fiction.
Fact: many Democrats who voted for President Biden didn't show up to vote for VP Harris for President.
It doesn't make a tiny bit of difference about
what you, I and anyone else believes or doesn't believe, his rhetoric, generals, him not looking good, Elon, what he was telling people, interviews and how great the rallies and Kamalas enthusiasm were.
Because we just didn't have the votes.
Democrats didn't show up and we as a result did indeed hand it right to him and on a silver platter ALL BECAUSE we didn't have the human numbers to make the votes land in our direction.
I know it's hard to face defeat. I'm devastated. Reality isn't for the faint of heart, especially political reality.
Because political reality always ends in the science of numbers where only that we show up and vote matters and how we feel about the outcome doesn't count a bit.
This time the apathy of our peers is going to hurt us all and no amount of denial, anger, bargaining or depression can change the numbers.
It's definitely a hard pill to swallow for us all.
❤️
Hassler
(3,651 posts)Keep in mind that half the people you come across are assholes, or deluded morons who believe Dementia J Felon is SAVING democracy.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)pnwmom
(109,535 posts)and provisional votes.
Last time, according to Greg Palast, there were 2.7 million rejected. There were others that were accepted days after the election.
Why are people in such a hurry to declare this is over? It DISCOURAGES people from "curing" their provisional ballots, which could make a real difference in the very tight House races that remain.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)"...people in such a hurry to declare this is over."
Except that maybe the pain is too much to accept and/or that they may not think we have time for wallowing in the sorrow.
Those are not things that are the crux of my concern. I'm more concerned about logical problem solving and pragmatic responsibility.
I'd rather we let go of the helium balloon before we lose complete sight of the ground.
The number comparison is based in 2020 relative to 2024 as a starting point.
Why do we let the AP call elections based on historical averages when all the votes haven't been counted?
IMO, We need to learn to wait for the results in their entirety. Then every vote really would count and ballots could be cured and accounted for, too.
Thanks for your reply, pnwmom. ❤️
pnwmom
(109,535 posts)I donated this morning to the DCCC because they need legal funds to pursue every last ballot, because they could make a difference in the very tight races left in the House.
I understand many people can't do that -- but they can bite their tongues when they're tempted to proclaim it's hopeless. We need every person who hasn't cured their ballot to do so ASAP, and we need every provisional and mail-in ballot to be counted. We don't need anyone telling them that it's already over.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Autopsy/forensic exam and a murder.
We really, really need to have the house in Dem hands.
I don't want anyone disenfranchised in any way. We need all the help we can get.
I would not be a very good Democrat if I did. I don't think that I would even qualify as a Democrat at all if that was true.
❤️
flamingdem
(39,888 posts)for ballot curing?
I don't see reports about this
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)notroot
(267 posts)We have no grand, long-term positive vision for the country. We're so used to being the underdog -- the victim -- we don't know how to push our vision through. We don't even really know what that vision is.
Platitudes blah blah blah, equal rights, blah.
We, as a group, don't have a common vision of where America should go, next.
That's our problem.
dpibel
(3,296 posts)Are you sure you're talking to the right "we"?
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)We are all over the map with our messaging. That definitely needs to change.
I don't have any suggestions for that though I am sure they're some who do. I'll have to think on that.
Thanks for your reply, notroot. ❤️
live love laugh
(14,353 posts)to attack Democrats? We my ass.
9:22 PM
We have no grand, long-term positive vision for the country. We're so used to being the underdog -- the victim -- we don't know how to push our vision through. We don't even really know what that vision is.
Platitudes blah blah blah, equal rights, blah.
We, as a group, don't have a common vision of where America should go, next.
That's our problem.
Emile
(29,478 posts)convincing voters that the inflation was because of Joe Biden.
People stayed home.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Those who voted for President Biden previously, too many Americans definitely stayed home.
So, our job just gets more difficult as more people check out or don't show up.
Unfortunately, they don't seem to understand what we fight for is for them, too. It would be nice if they'd return the favor, wouldn't it?
Thanks for your reply, Emile. ❤️
Dem4life1234
(1,500 posts)Usually their lazy asses can't bother to do a damn thing but play video games all day.
I hope he makes all their lives miserable.
uponit7771
(91,670 posts)littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)As the saying goes, there's a first time for everything.
I don't disagree with you on the suffering part.
❤️
Woodycall
(299 posts)littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Beck23
(157 posts)Some websites had algorithms to take young men to women hating propaganda sites.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)It doesn't surprise me at all. It's so on brand for them. They have no shame.
Thanks for your reply, Beck23. ❤️
lindysalsagal
(22,365 posts)pnwmom
(109,535 posts)both mail in and provisional. And people who were declaring it all over on Wednesday were DEPRESSING the rate of provisional ballots being returned and accepted.
Even now, the party needs help paying for the legal challenges that are ongoing because the R's are claiming a win while STILL trying to prevent all votes from being counted.
Lunabell
(6,782 posts)Eventually they will cool off, but now they are grieving. People grieve in different ways.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)And because we all grieve in different ways studying math cannot be excluded from the myriad of individual coping strategies expressed here.
To suggest otherwise would be exclusionary.
I don't know when I will be able to think of our lost opportunity without feeling angry and sad.
What I do know, is that if the Democrats that voted for President Biden had shown up to vote for VP Harris for President very few of us would be interested in doing math or talking about grief.
Thanks for your reply, Lunabell.
❤️
TheProle
(2,932 posts)Calcify throughout the grieving process, and become the narratives moving forward.
A phase of irrationality is a luxury Democrats cant afford.
Lunabell
(6,782 posts)Most will come around. I had a knot in my stomach for three days. I couldn't eat or hardly drink. (not even alcohol!) I couldn't sleep and avoided DU and the news because I just couldn't even think about this tragedy. I've processed it for the most part and am ready to move on. I am ready to do what it takes to win back what we've lost.
Other people process in a different way. And some in a not so good way. We just need to keep our sanity and bring the others who are willing, back to the table. We have work to do.
Meowmee
(5,307 posts)Anyone what to think or say? This is a discussion board. There is reason to be suspicious about any possible form of cheating given the circumstances.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Why is it preferable to immediately go to the
"kill the messenger" approach to this discussion as opposed to reading the entire thread and studying the math?
Because that's the subject of the post, math.
There is certainly no reason for not starting an OP to discuss the "reason to be suspicious about any possible form of cheating given the circumstance" but that's not what the topic is here.
But thanks for your reply.
❤️
Meowmee
(5,307 posts)That you are the one to tell people not to discuss it? Have at it, you are entitled to your opinion of course. There are plenty of threads about that already and theres no reason for there not to be in my opinion. Look at everything thats happened for eight years now, people are not crazy to be asking some questions whatever the math is.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Be the one to tell me what topics are acceptable and unacceptable to discuss?
Because I don't see me chastising anyone for having an opinion.
Offering an alternative opinion is not the same as suppressing someone's speech. Neither is expressing exasperation.
But if you believe that I'm wrong to offer a different perspective on the matter you're entirely entitled to seeing things differently. Just like me.
I must say I feel like I'm being attacked for being honest and that's concerning on a Democratic discussion board. But it won't stop me from being myself.
Meowmee
(5,307 posts)Putting you on mute now . Good luck 😀
Sneederbunk
(15,053 posts)I was wrong.
claudette
(4,458 posts)disappointed in - no angry - at all the white women who voted for Dump. I have ZERO respect for them. Am I supposed to feel sorry if one of them suffers or worse dies because of Dump's policies on reproductive care? Really?
Attilatheblond
(4,260 posts)My county, the one Marc Elias took to court for not certifying the ballots AS REQUIRED BY LAW, is now suddenly unable to count ballots cuz a machine broke. WTF?
We had an award winning election manager here. She was GOP but our elections were honest, accurate, and on time. The local GOP pols drove her out and cost the county a pretty hefty sum in the civil case she filed.
So, our ballots from Tuesday have not all been counted. Machine broke. And they can only get one to replace it from Arkansas.
Yeah, THAT doesn't concern.... WTF?
One of the two county supervisors indicted for not certifying last election is on this ballot for re-election. And we have to wait on a machine from Arkansas to find out if we managed to throw out the asswipe who almost got ALL county ballots excluded from state total last time, which would have disenfranchised over 47,000 voters.
Can't help but wonder what other weird stuff has gone on in other GOP controlled counties across the nation. Not magical thinking when one sees chicanery up close in their home county and one knows GOP operatives have been working with local GOP office holders in many counties for 4+ years to suppress votes and who knows what else.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)My notion here is that if the folks who voted for President Biden had consequently voted for VP Harris as President we wouldn't be here.
I am not surprised to hear about any chicanery anywhere anymore. We apparently have it in our own party. Which is a revelation in itself.
But it's not the first time I've been disappointed by people so I'm just going to move on.
I hope things are ironed out soon in your direction.
Thanks for your reply. ❤️
milestogo
(17,633 posts)You believe everything the MSM says without questioning anything.
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Thanks for that, milestogo.
You deserve a hug.
❤️
jfz9580m
(15,387 posts)I dont like the posts casting doubts on election results. Trump won fair and square.
Which is either terrifying because humans evil (this explanation I find unconvincing -the billionaires kinda are as is the movement gop..GOP voters ) or humans stupid, kinda selfish and crass (this I think is sadly true).
Elon Musk will point us all no doubt to Black Mirrors Bandersnatch as we are asked to tighten our belts. All of our own choices lead us to this moment here! He cant affect me personally directly but if I follow him I think I will be helping the right by providing liberal tears and so I will let my allies on the left fight the good fight and tune this out except when I can donate money. I cant stand to watch them dismantle such progress as has been made on green issues.
No doubt Musk thinks this is all a simulation..it is a multiverse and only the one in which Elon and Trump rule the world results in winning!
Oh well..Idiocracy it is. I just hope the Biden admin does what it can to protect environmental regulations before they leave.
Ysabel
(2,078 posts)therefore we don't have all the math yet so who can really say I say...
littlemissmartypants
(25,363 posts)Today, I'm wearing my Kamala. (Kamala, period) sweatshirt.
I got it two sizes too large because I wanted it to be long. I wanted to have my hands covered and for it to fall well below my hips.
My house can get very chilly even before the cold weather sets in because it's a country farmhouse built without insulation in the 1940's.
I washed it yesterday and when I finally put it on I was delighted by how soft and cozy it feels.
It's like getting a hug.
So today I'm wearing my big, soft, cozy Kamala period sweatshirt and it feels like she's giving me a big hug.
Like she's saying it's OK.
Like everything, all of the hardwork wasn't for nothing.
Because at least I got a Kamala hug.
Because of this, I'm going to try not to cry today.*
As hard as we worked, as extensive as out ground game was, as much money as we donated and spent...it still wasn't enough to bring out our fellow Democrats who voted for President Biden and have them vote for Kamala. Our own peeps left us high and dry.
The numbers in question:
2020 JB 81,283,501
2024 KH 70,858,691
Difference: 10,424,810
❤️pants
*No such luck. Since I originally drafted this the tears have started. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day.